bigwordsmith Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Gilbert - quick question. I've acquired a bunch of A3s, half of them are single chimney and as I'm modelling around 1959 should I be converting them all and adding German smoke deflectors? Tx Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted February 15, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15, 2014 There's always clause 1 of your Modellers Licence! I already have three endorsements on my modellers licence. One more and I get disqualified from buying anything for six months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted February 15, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15, 2014 Gilbert - quick question. I've acquired a bunch of A3s, half of them are single chimney and as I'm modelling around 1959 should I be converting them all and adding German smoke deflectors? Tx Peter Hi Peter, The first A3 to get deflectors was not until late 1960, so you would not need any of those. By mid 1959 there would be more double chimney examples than single. If you would like to tell me which locos you are considering I can tell you when the double chimneys were acquired. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Thanks Gilbert I've got Sandwich ( x2) with double chimneys, Pretty Polly with double chimney and deflectors which is a tender drive Beatties limited edition special Windsor Lad single chimney Brown Jack single chimney Blink Bonny (also a tender drive) single chimney and an old Hornby Scotsman that I repainted, detailed and called Pretty Polly, with a single chimney. So one of those two will need renumbering, and it's a toss up between renumbering my own handiwork or a Beatties limited edition special! So the problem is I want to use them all on the Waverley Route, which means my selection could come from Coronach, Prince Palatine, Flamingo, Ormonde, Sir Visto, Salmon Trout I suppose I could also have any of the Haymarket A3s as they used to supply locos from time to time, but that's a fair few to be going on with! What do you think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted February 15, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15, 2014 Thanks Gilbert I've got Sandwich ( x2) with double chimneys, Pretty Polly with double chimney and deflectors which is a tender drive Beatties limited edition special Windsor Lad single chimney Brown Jack single chimney Blink Bonny (also a tender drive) single chimney and an old Hornby Scotsman that I repainted, detailed and called Pretty Polly, with a single chimney. So one of those two will need renumbering, and it's a toss up between renumbering my own handiwork or a Beatties limited edition special! So the problem is I want to use them all on the Waverley Route, which means my selection could come from Coronach, Prince Palatine, Flamingo, Ormonde, Sir Visto, Salmon Trout I suppose I could also have any of the Haymarket A3s as they used to supply locos from time to time, but that's a fair few to be going on with! What do you think? Hmmm..... the next question is, how pedantic do you want to be? Your two Sandwich locos are presumably Hornby and out of the Talisman set? If so, they have Dia 107 (A4) boilers, which Hornby got dead right. They have New Type non corridor tenders. That I'm afraid very much limits available options if you wish to be correct. The only Carlisle loco which had a Dia 107 boiler in 1959 was Flamingo. She got her double chimney in February 1959. Just to be difficult though, she also was one of the very few with a streamlined non corridor tender, as towed by Flying Scotsman. The other three Carlisle engines, Sir Visto Bayardo and Coronach all had GN tenders. I suspect none of yours have those. Is that correct? Windsor Lad will have a NT tender, and so with single chimney would be correct in 1958, but she emerged with a double chimney in January 1959! Brown Jack got a double chimney in February '59, but had a GN tender. I could go on, but I won't at the moment, as I really need to know how much all of this bothers you? For what it is worth, trying to restrict a layout to a tight timescale is a very thankless task, as I know only too well. If you are prepared to make it a bit more flexible, say June '58 to July '59, I can recommend some others which would be "right", though they would be Haymarket engines, not Carlisle because of the tender problem. As I said though, it depends how much it matters to you personally to have things dead right. Just one more example - Call Boy ( Haymarket) had a NT tender and Dia 107 boiler in 1959, and would be perfect for one of your two Sandwich models, save for the fact that she got a double chimney in September '58! As I say, give me a few more details particularly of tender types, and if you really need to have things dead right I'll see what can be done. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) Ah Gilbert you got that one on the head! You're correct about the two Sandwich (es?) I got one complete Talisman set in return for the slightly dodgy City of Bristol I mentioned a couple of weeks back and I think I've only got two GN tenders, both of which are tender drives behind Blink Bonny and Pretty Polly (2) So my loose plan,given that I've also got a rather catholic approach to early diesels as well is to try to recreate the flavour of the Waverley Route through the steam/diesel transition era. I've even toyed with the thought of setting up a pool of about 12 trains that can do the 'move through time' bit by going to/from the storage loops and into the main station, starting with an early '50s blue A1 with a mixed rake of teak and maroons running all the way through to Kestrel dragging a set of Blue Grey Mark IIs! So as you can see getting the precise details right isn't 100% top of the priority list. But then there's another problem - Having seen the work of the elite group of modellers - yourself very much to the fore in this - that come here, one cannot help but feel the need to be more accurate. For the real enthusiast the accuracy would be spoilt by small details - like seeing George Gently driving a pale blue Rover P6 when it was never a factory colour on the Mk.1 - or indeed ever to my recollection. This kind of thing only matters to me because I used to publish motoring and transport magazines so know a lot about that era! Similarly for the real enthusiast, the wrong tender/ boiler etc. does matter. On the other hand my 'original' Pretty Polly is a 1970's vintage XO4 motored Triang Hornby and it looks OK ( from a distance).... What a quandary! Edited February 16, 2014 by bigwordsmith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted February 16, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2014 Ah Gilbert you got that one on the head! You're correct about the two Sandwich (es?) I got one complete Talisman set in return for the slightly dodgy City of Bristol I mentioned a couple of weeks back and I think I've only got two GN tenders, both of which are tender drives behind Blink Bonny and Pretty Polly (2) So my loose plan,given that I've also got a rather catholic approach to early diesels as well is to try to recreate the flavour of the Waverley Route through the steam/diesel transition era. I've even toyed with the thought of setting up a pool of about 12 trains that can do the 'move through time' bit by going to/from the storage loops and into the main station, starting with an early '50s blue A1 with a mixed rake of teak and maroons running all the way through to Kestrel dragging a set of Blue Grey Mark IIs! So as you can see getting the precise details right isn't 100% top of the priority list. But then there's another problem - Having seen the work of the elite group of modellers - yourself very much to the fore in this - that come here, one cannot help but feel the need to be more accurate. For the real enthusiast the accuracy would be spoilt by small details - like seeing George Gently driving a pale blue Rover P6 when it was never a factory colour on the Mk.1 - or indeed ever to my recollection. This kind of thing only matters to me because I used to publish motoring and transport magazines so know a lot about that era! Similarly for the real enthusiast, the wrong tender/ boiler etc. does matter. On the other hand my 'original' Pretty Polly is a 1970's vintage XO4 motored Triang Hornby and it looks OK ( from a distance).... What a quandary! You should do what satisfies you, and that is the only essential really, because if it doesn't satisfy you, it either won't last long or it will not be used. That's the voice of experience speaking - I'm certainly an experienced modeller, but nowhere near to being elite. How about this for a compromise solution? Your idea of a Waverley Route 1950s to early 1960s seems perfectly sensible to me, but you could also go some way towards satisfying a need to be more accurate, without painting yourself into a corner where absolute accuracy, which is frankly just about impossible anyway. would mean considerable expense, time and trouble. So long as you don't claim total accuracy, no-one should upbraid you for not achieving that. A few no doubt would, but can be ignored. Here then atr some suggestions:- " Sandwich 1" could become Flamingo. That gives you one essential Carlisle engine, the only thing being wrong is the tender. The difference between a New Type and a Streamlined tender though is not that great when watching trains go by, and so can be tolerated. "Sandwich 2" could become either Call Boy or Spion Kop. Both would be seen on the Waverley, and both had Dia 107 boilers, NT tenders and double chimneys towards the end of steam, so they are right for a flexible time scale. Windsor Lad can stay as it is. Brown Jack has the wrong tender. If you are happy with that, leave it as it is. If not, Spearmint had a NT tender from 1952 onwards. Your two with GN tenders, Blink Bonny and Pretty Polly 2, would be the ideal ones to change to Carlisle engines, as neither would have been common on the Waverley, though Blink Bonny may have appeared occasionally, particularly in the last days of steam. The fact that they have single chimneys doesn't matter if the timescale is flexible. That leaves your limited edition Pretty Polly, which I'm pretty certain would never have appeared on the Waverley. How much does that matter to you? If it doesn't bug you too much, leave as is. I'd need to know what tender it has before making alternative suggestions. And of course, please feel free to ignore all this! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Gilbert, many thanks for such a comprehensive reply which is perfect! I've printed it and added it to my 'Waverley' file so will now set about acquiring a few Kings Cross Plates, unless you can recommend better one Enjoy the rest of the weekend ATB Peter 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted February 16, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2014 Today we shall have a featured train, and a prestige one at that, the Down Tees-Tyne Pullman. The stock for this now lives in cassettes, two of which have to be placed and unloaded, after which the loco is taken from the "shed" and railed up. I decided to see just how long this takes, the answer being less than a minute and a half, which both surprised and pleased me. One of the best modelling decisions I have ever made. Anyway, here she comes. This one isn't pin sharp, but I confess to being very pleased with it, It's an angle I don't recollect trying before, as I usually take shots from the Down platform to avoid the contre jour problem. It does show though that I need to do something about the expanse of bare platform. Makes a nice close up too. A more familiar view next. Sorry about the blu tak. A very familiar but not very sharp image to finish. 60010 should have a curly six on the front numberplate. Never fear, this is in hand, and technicians will be arriving on Tuesday with the correct version. 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted February 16, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2014 Gilbert, many thanks for such a comprehensive reply which is perfect! I've printed it and added it to my 'Waverley' file so will now set about acquiring a few Kings Cross Plates, unless you can recommend better one Enjoy the rest of the weekend ATB Peter Hi Peter, The best plates in my opinion are CGW, if they do the locos you want. If not I go to either Fox or 247 developments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) 247 are best value , delievery can be erratic however. Lamp Iron alert ,you are about to lose the bottom centre one (they are a real pain). Edited February 16, 2014 by micklner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted February 16, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2014 Re 247 plates. In the past I have offered to 'shop for' or/& collect plates for people at a local show attended by Gary, e.g. Donny or Nott'm. If they can be ordered that is even better so you know if they are available. If contact with 247 has not been possible beforehand, then I would go with the 'list' and get what I could. All the 'customer' then has to do is pay me for the plates and postage and buy me a bun when they next are in the area. Maybe others could offer this service and not just for 247 plates? P 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) I'm hoping Scotch Jim, the wee man in Modelmasterland is back off his hols, as I'm waiting for 'Duke Of Gloucester' plates. I've heard of a run on the pound but this Railroad engine has a lot to answer for.... Will 71000 be working a Thompson Society 'Mountain Viewer' special into Peterborough any time soon Gilbert...? Edited February 17, 2014 by coachmann 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted February 16, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2014 You will be able to pop down to Crewe for prototype inspiration Coach, as the Duke is in Waterman's Garage at the moment. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) You will be able to pop down to Crewe for prototype inspiration Coach, as the Duke is in Waterman's Garage at the moment. Phil Inspiration came from PAD's 'Seven Models 0 gauge Duke of Gloucester' thread. Anyway Pete would probably say 'Larry who?' if I asked for a visit.. Edited February 16, 2014 by coachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted February 17, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2014 I'm hoping the Scotch Jim, the wee man in Modelmasterland is back off his hols, as I'm waiting for 'Duke Of Gloucester' plates. I've heard of a run on the pound but this Railroad engine has a lot to answer for.... Will 71000 be working a Thompson Society 'Mountain Viewer' special into Peterborough any time soon Golbert...? That's an easy one to resist Larry. I never saw 71000, and for some reason it doesn't inspire me at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 If I saw it I probably would have taken it to be just another Brit in steam days....That's how little interest I took in the Standards. It was only bought as a challenge to see what could be done with it, but its appearance gives me more pleasure than the other recent purchases including the L&YR Radials, 4F's and J11's. As a model, you should handle one Gilbert to see if it has the same affect on you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted February 17, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2014 Inspiration came from PAD's 'Seven Models 0 gauge Duke of Gloucester' thread. Anyway Pete would probably say 'Larry who?' if I asked for a visit.. Oh yes; that was one hell of a build and looked superb. Bet you would have liked to have had a go at the paint job Larry? P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Yesterday I was playing around with buffer beam detailing and had a Brittannia on the rails without its smoke deflectors - it makes an extremely impressive looking engine - I'd never thought of deflectors masking the sheer brute power of a smokebox/front end before, and there's an article in this months HM about the Duke where the writer makes that very comment that close up it exudes a kind of energy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Oh yes; that was one hell of a build and looked superb. Bet you would have liked to have had a go at the paint job Larry? P Er.....no Mallard. I started doing painting & lining commissions in 1962 ten years before going full-time and, truth to tell, I will avoid painting even my own locos wherever possible these days. Coaches, on the other hand, are my hobby as well as my job. Lucky me! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Coachmann - how do get the lining straight? I use waterslides - can't get on with Pressfix - and always seem to have just one little bit that goes wonky? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 My lining has always been done by hand using draughtsman's bow-pens and compasses plus a few in-house tricks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikthebluedeltic Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Hi Gilbert, I have been reading progress on A2/3 can you help with a contact for these conversions, thank you. Nikthebluedeltic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Gilbert I just spent my lunch break (!) watching this delightful British Transport film about the North East in the throes of the Modernisation Plan and thought of you as there's a whole section in there in freight - and Fish vans! Loads of lovely detail of scenic bits that remind us of just how cluttered the 1960s railways were http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkgnTonf-Oc Enjoy Peter 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Coincidentally, it looked like Thompsons A1 Pacific 'Great Northern' curving over that viaduct at the beginning of the film. I smile at these BT films..... From building new modern steam engines to Corporate blues and a run down neglected railway in less than two decades. And all financed by cheap-day returns. It could never work. We have already seen where the freight went, and the future for most well-populated conurbations is most likely the tram. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now