Kadee Couplers

[55020]

In case anybody is interested,I have found this ebay seller in the US to be the cheapest source of Kaydees #146. 

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Kadee-146-Metal-Whisker-Coupler-Long-25-64-Centerset-Shank-HO-Scale/123111082706?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

A cheaper source here?   http://billstrains.com/KADEE-COUPLERS-and-UNCOUPLERS-ONLY/

[Dunsignalling]

Take care with ordering on-line from the US. Some dealers levy a hefty flat-rate shipping charge on overseas orders.

 

A pal of mine recently bought some N Gauge locos and stock that he couldn't find anywhere in the UK on which the there was a standard shipping charge of almost $50.

 

He was buying several locos, and the prices were low enough to make it worthwhile, but the size of the transaction ensured a liability for customs duty, VAT and the dreaded Parcel Force "handling charge" when the goods arrived on UK shores.

 

Check before you check-out is my advice.

 

John

[brian777999]

Take care with ordering on-line from the US. Some dealers levy a hefty flat-rate shipping charge on overseas orders.

 

A pal of mine recently bought some N Gauge locos and stock that he couldn't find anywhere in the UK on which the there was a standard shipping charge of almost $50.

 

He was buying several locos, and the prices were low enough to make it worthwhile, but the size of the transaction ensured a liability for customs duty, VAT and the dreaded Parcel Force "handling charge" when the goods arrived on UK shores.

 

Check before you check-out is my advice.

 

John

 

I received 20 packets (forty pairs of #146) and the postage to Cairns, Australia was $US26. I did check first. I was well pleased with the total cost per packet which was about half what I would pay buying from anywhere in Australia or the UK.

 

NOTE :  in Australia we do not pay any VAT or other taxes when buying online from overseas but that could change soon.

Edited May 4, 2018 by brian777999

[melmerby]

Here's how I tackled a Hornby 7 plank fitted with the clip in coupler (ex-Airfix?)

 

Firstly the old coupler mount was cut off flush

I used #146 mounted with a 10BA nut & bolt

 

As you can see I removed the weight and cut it in half and used a piece of plasticard as a backing for the coupling

A bit of Bostic holds the plastic & weights in place (it won't actually bond as the chassis is a polythene like plastic)

 

 

 

I have found the #146 suits most occasions where the old mount is removed as the height is almost always bang on and it can be set back.

It is mounted lid uppermost with the lip removed

 

Keith

 

(the buffer has been straightened!)

 

 

 

[dj_crisp]

My suggestion:

 

Make the slot big enough to insert the draft box from the front and superglue it in place, minus the lid.

 

Shorten the lid so it will fit onto the portion of the box that protrudes behind the buffer beam. 

 

If the box fouls the pony truck, the whisker coupler doesn't occupy much of it behind the pivot so quite a bit can be trimmed off if necessary. 

 

Have a spare packet of #242 draft boxes to hand. You will, almost certainly, mess up a couple............

 

John

 

 

I've not had a go at a 45 but my approach would be the same as what I do for my Mk1s, 60 & 66s. Hack a hole (well carfully cut a slot), use a 252 and i tend to slice it flat (chop the circle and lip off). Then use plasticard 4mm rod as spacers.... drill a 2mm hole into the rod and then use either a 8ba or 10ba nut and bolt to attach it to the chassis through a 2mm hole (or smaller for the 10ba). The bolt is secured with a spot of loctite This allows me to have fun front end detailing and the cut slot prevents the kadee rotating

 

I'm not sure the photos of my 66 help help but gives you an idea (the mk1 kadees are on my workbence thread)

 

 

 

I don't know if I'll ever need to change the kadees but they able to be dismantled if needed. The 66 is very tight fit and needs some of the bogie plastic trimmed down but works allowing full bogie rotation.

 

cheers

Will

[Dunsignalling]

I've not had a go at a 45 but my approach would be the same as what I do for my Mk1s, 60 & 66s. Hack a hole (well carfully cut a slot), use a 252 and i tend to slice it flat (chop the circle and lip off). Then use plasticard 4mm rod as spacers.... drill a 2mm hole into the rod and then use either a 8ba or 10ba nut and bolt to attach it to the chassis through a 2mm hole (or smaller for the 10ba). The bolt is secured with a spot of loctite This allows me to have fun front end detailing and the cut slot prevents the kadee rotating

 

I'm not sure the photos of my 66 help help but gives you an idea (the mk1 kadees are on my workbence thread)

 

_1140815.JPG

 

20180504_113931.jpg

 

I don't know if I'll ever need to change the kadees but they able to be dismantled if needed. The 66 is very tight fit and needs some of the bogie plastic trimmed down but works allowing full bogie rotation.

 

cheers

Will

Nice job. It's very similar to what I've done on a couple of Bachmann Warships (skirts and pipework all in place both ends). 

 

I used #36 couplers for those as the boxes are a vital tad smaller than the #252 but I needed to file some material off the bogies and the draft boxes to get enough clearance despite that.

 

I definitely invalidated the warranties as the locos had to be substantially dismantled to get at everything involved in the job. End result is worth it, but I don't plan on doing any for other people, and only another one for me; any more would be sheer masochism..........

 

The next other one will get #37 or #38 with the boxes protruding slightly to avoid some of that and fit in with the body mounting screw which is somewhere different from those on the other two.

 

Then I've got some Westerns to think through.........  

 

Regards

 

John

Edited May 4, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[petertg]

I have fitted kadees forming my own "pockets" and then gluing in the normal plug-in tyoes.to some Dapol coache with apparently difficult plastic to bond. To do this I found a plastic cement manufactured by a company known as Ceys quoted as being for difficult plastics and so far they have not come apart. However, since then I have not been able to find it again and it did have the problem of bonding its own screw cap to the screw thread.

[NoelG]

Thought I'd share some of my recent experiences converting stock to kadee's. Due to the varying age of stock much pre-NEM I used a variety of methods from fitting NEM pockets, coping with incorrect NEM pockets to fitting 242 gearbox either to wagon floors behind buffer beam, or to bogies that had the old TLCs cut off.

 

33 wagons and 24 coaches converted so far. Before starting I had just a hint of scepticism about kadee's, but the more stock I converted and test ran the more pleased I was that I'd taken the plunge. Chart below summarising the current kadee product offerings I used.  Their web site is so confusing and they seem to have gazillions of versions of their products, but the list below may help some.  It's not definitive and the choice of coupling lengths suited the 3ft radius curves on our layout. The 206 height gauge is essential. IMHO the 237 trip pin pliers is also an essential tool for tweaking the odd wagon or coach where you experience a marginally drooping trip pin (i.e. track snag and derailment hazard). The chart below was for my Irish stock but still gives a general idea.

 

 

Worked out ok with bogie mounted kadee's (i.e. without independant pivoting drawbars)

 

 

On some stock I glued the kadee's under the NEM pockets to get the correct height

 

No 18's glued nicely under the NEM pockets for correct height gauge alignment and allow the trip pins to work over uncoupling magnets

 

On some coaching stock where the NEM pockets were incorrect height I made a shank adaptor and glued no 17s on for a perfect close coupled fit.

 

As close as necessary using the white plasticard adaptor shanks.

 

Converting 25yo Bachmann wagons with old style tension lock couplings by cutting away the old mounts and using 242 gearbox and whisker kadee's no 148 flush with buffer beam.  I hate the much lauded no 5's they are rubbish and look awful protruding past the buffer beam. These no 148s are inconspicuous.

 

The 25yo Bachmann 2 axle goods wagons were pretty close using their old style TLCs, but managed to get them slightly closer with the 148 kadee's flush mounted to the chassis floor and flush with the buffer beam.

 

 

These manage to negotiate Peco short points and all the curves on our layout.

 

I'm very happy the way the 25yo Bachmann wagons worked out

 

Having the kadee height gauge mounted on a section of test track was really useful for tweaking the coupling distances between stock as well as getting the height correct

Edited May 6, 2018 by NoelG

[melmerby]

I don't use the #148s under old Baccy/Mainline wagons as I think they work better with a #146 set further back

The old bogie wagons need a bit of ingenuity as the coupling is moulded as part of the bogie and chopping it off leaves a platform at a difficult height to mount a Kadee on.

 

Following advice here on RMWeb I stopped trying to convert carriages with close coupling mechanisms as they are much better with the suggested Roco/Hornby couplers and don't derail when coming off a curve.

Mine stay in rakes so only the outer ends get a Kadee.

 

Keith

Edited May 6, 2018 by melmerby

[melmerby]

duplicate

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by melmerby

[melmerby]

Converting Airfix wagons or their Hornby derivatives.

 

They have a raised Mount:

Airfix

 

This has to be cut off flush, leaving a hole:

Hornby

 

The holes need to be filled and a backing piece made:

The metal weight is also removed

 

 

The coulping is fixed with a 10BA nut and bolt

A view topside showing replacement lead weight:

 

 

Using a #146 gets the front of the gearbox well under the buffer beam out of the way.

 

Keith

Edited May 11, 2018 by melmerby

[brian777999]

I also use the Kadee 146. Pity you can't buy them in a bulk pack though.

Edited May 12, 2018 by brian777999

[ISW]

I also use the Kadee 146. Pity you can't buy them in a bulk pack though.

DC Kits [1] do supply in packs of 10-pairs and 20-pairs, if you can call that 'bulk'. Been buying mine in packs of 10-pairs for a while now.

 

[1] - others suppliers may also apply ...

 

Ian

[ISW]

Converting Airfix wagons or their Hornby derivatives.

 

They have a raised Mount:

Airfix

 

This has to be cut off flush, leaving a hole:

Hornby

 

The holes need to be filled and a backing piece made:

The metal weight is also removed

 

The coulping is fixed with a 10BA nut and bolt

A view topside showing replacement lead weight:

 

Using a #146 gets the front of the gearbox well under the buffer beam out of the way.

 

Keith

Keith,

 

I've been doing something similar with my old (& new secondhand) wagons that had the Airfix / Dapol couplings.

 

My method also fills the 'hole' but keeps the weight installed and uses a screw instead of a nut/bolt.

 

The 'hole' is removed in the same manner as yourself and infilled.

 

To strengthen the infill, a crossbeam is added. This 'just' allows for the weight to be re-fitted.

 

The Kadee is then attached using a No.0 x 6.4mm long screw (fitted as shown in the first picture) aided by drilling a ~0.6mm pilot hole.

 

In some cases the screw has fouled on the weight. In these circumstances, I simply cut the screw to an appropriate length.

 

Both methods obviously work, so it's a case of 'horses for courses' ...

 

Ian

[melmerby]

Keith,

 

I've been doing something similar with my old (& new secondhand) wagons that had the Airfix / Dapol couplings.

 

My method also fills the 'hole' but keeps the weight installed and uses a screw instead of a nut/bolt.

 

The 'hole' is removed in the same manner as yourself and infilled.

20180512_144507.jpg

 

To strengthen the infill, a crossbeam is added. This 'just' allows for the weight to be re-fitted.

20180512_144527.jpg

 

The Kadee is then attached using a No.0 x 6.4mm long screw (fitted as shown in the first picture) aided by drilling a ~0.6mm pilot hole.

20180512_144723.jpg

 

In some cases the screw has fouled on the weight. In these circumstances, I simply cut the screw to an appropriate length.

 

Both methods obviously work, so it's a case of 'horses for courses' ...

 

Ian

I use 10BA nuts & bolts because I have a pot of them! (left over from work)

The lead helps increase the weight, especially on some of the very light 4 wheelers.

I have an awful lot of lead as well, maybe 40lbs of it! Left over from sash window weights and roof flashing.

 

Keith

Edited May 12, 2018 by melmerby

[NoelG]

I now super glue the draft gearboxes to the underside of the wagon floor instead of screws which I used before.  Saves time.  On some wagons I've added NEM pockets but I prefer the movement the draft gearboxes give with whisker sprung kadee's compared to the NEM versions. I'm gradually working my way through converting about 60 early 1990s Bachmann wagons that had the older mid sized TLCs which were surprisingly close coupled for their day. Absolutely hate the modern tiny TLCs that don't reliably couple let alone uncouple.

[melmerby]

I now super glue the draft gearboxes to the underside of the wagon floor instead of screws which I used before.  Saves time. 

However some plastic used for mouldings won't glue to properly as I found out, superglue, poly cement and similar won't bond to it

If it's a very flexible plastic e.g. Lima they just don't stay in place.

 

keith

Edited May 13, 2018 by melmerby

[NoelG]

However some plastic used for mouldings won't glue to properly as I found out, superglue, poly cement and similar won't bond to it

If it's a very flexible plastic e.g. Lima they just don't stay in place.

 

keith

Hi Keith, yes some of the old Tri-ang Hornby wagons have a particularly shiney and soft flexible plastic but the 10sec super glue I use has bonded well after I rubbed the surface lightly with some fine sand paper. I've a large number of 2 axle wagons I'm working through and the additional process of aligning, drilling holes and screwing the couplings in just took too much time. I contemplated fitting NEM pockets in case they ever needed to be reverted back to TLCs but realistically that's never going to happen so the permenance of super glue suits my purposes. Noel

[ISW]

I've been happily modifying old stock to Kadees for a year or so now, commonly with Kadee #5, #18, #147 & #156.

 

However, I'm a bit stumped by some Bachmann coaches with NEM pockets. The #18 I have are way too short and I'm not sure if #19 (long) or #20 (extra long) is the correct option.

 

Before I go out and buy, please can anyone tell me which Kadee I need to suit the Bachmann coach below (model 39-371):

 

Coach view (Mk2 - predating the Mk2a -  BSO)

 

NEM coupling view

 

Thanks

Ian

[Butler Henderson]

I've been happily modifying old stock to Kadees for a year or so now, commonly with Kadee #5, #18, #147 & #156.

 

However, I'm a bit stumped by some Bachmann coaches with NEM pockets. The #18 I have are way too short and I'm not sure if #19 (long) or #20 (extra long) is the correct option.

 

Before I go out and buy, please can anyone tell me which Kadee I need to suit the Bachmann coach below (model 39-371):

 

Think a 20 - do you not have a 19 or 20 on something else you could try out. I would only fit Kadees to the outer end of a rake of coaches in any case.

[ISW]

Think a 20 - do you not have a 19 or 20 on something else you could try out. I would only fit Kadees to the outer end of a rake of coaches in any case.

Sadly, I don't have any #19 or #20. I have #18, so I knew that was too short ...

 

Ian

[melmerby]

I've been happily modifying old stock to Kadees for a year or so now, commonly with Kadee #5, #18, #147 & #156.

 

However, I'm a bit stumped by some Bachmann coaches with NEM pockets. The #18 I have are way too short and I'm not sure if #19 (long) or #20 (extra long) is the correct option.

 

Before I go out and buy, please can anyone tell me which Kadee I need to suit the Bachmann coach below (model 39-371):

 

Thanks

Ian

Those are Bachmann's cranked NEM couplers and a NEM Kadee cannot be used as it will not be in the right position (too high)

You need a cut & shut job to fit them.

 

Keith

 

EDIT when Bachmann first started to fit NEM couplers they put the pocket way too high and the result is the couplers have to have a crank to bring them down to where they should be.

Edited May 17, 2018 by melmerby

[ejstubbs]

I'd be a little wary of expecting to fit NEM Kadees of any length to those coaches and have them working first time.  The NEM TLCs in your second photo are one of Bachmann's stepped versions, rather than the straight types which come with modern Bachmann stock.  That suggests to me that the NEM pockets on those coaches may be the wrong height for any other manufacturer's NEM couplings - the stepped version of the TLC was Bachmann's quick'n'dirty fix for their own mistake.  Whether or not this matters to you depends on whether you use magnetic uncoupling for your Kadee-fitted stock: if the NEM pocket is the wrong height then at a minimum the trip pin will need adjusting in order to make the uncoupling work.  Worst case that won't be sufficient - and if so then IMO you might as well consider stripping off the non-standard NEM pocket and fitting one of the whisker couplers, rather than faff about doing microsurgery on the NEM couplers in an attempt to get them to work in the incorrectly positioned NEM pockets.

 

The good news is that you should be able to check whether or not the NEM pocket height is likely to be an issue with your #18 couplers.

 

As to which of the #19 or #20 will be right for those coaches, can't you buy a packet of each and try them out?  Having one redundant packet of couplers left at the end of the exercise seems like a minor cost compared to what you're likely to have to pay to convert all your coaches.  (And there's always eBay...)

 

EDIT: melmerby got there first!

Edited May 17, 2018 by ejstubbs

[ISW]

Those are Bachmann's cranked NEM couplers and a NEM Kadee cannot be used as it will not be in the right position (too high)

You need a cut & shut job to fit them.

 

Keith

 

EDIT when Bachmann first started to fit NEM couplers they put the pocket way too high and the result is the couplers have to have a crank to bring them down to where they should be.

Keith,

 

There's always 'one' isn't there ... Just as I thought I understood Kadees and NEM pockets, 'cranked NEMs' come into my world. Mutter ...

 

At least a cut-n-shut can be 'adapted' to suit. My first 'port of call' will be to try using my existing #18 with a necessary 'adaptor plate' to get the correct length / height. I just hope all the plastics are compatible with 'plastic magic' or similar.

 

Ian

[ISW]

I'd be a little wary of expecting to fit NEM Kadees of any length to those coaches and have them working first time.  The NEM TLCs in your second photo are one of Bachmann's stepped versions, rather than the straight types which come with modern Bachmann stock.  That suggests to me that the NEM pockets on those coaches may be the wrong height for any other manufacturer's NEM couplings - the stepped version of the TLC was Bachmann's quick'n'dirty fix for their own mistake.  Whether or not this matters to you depends on whether you use magnetic uncoupling for your Kadee-fitted stock: if the NEM pocket is the wrong height then at a minimum the trip pin will need adjusting in order to make the uncoupling work.  Worst case that won't be sufficient - and if so then IMO you might as well consider stripping off the non-standard NEM pocket and fitting one of the whisker couplers, rather than faff about doing microsurgery on the NEM couplers in an attempt to get them to work in the incorrectly positioned NEM pockets.

 

The good news is that you should be able to check whether or not the NEM pocket height is likely to be an issue with your #18 couplers.

 

As to which of the #19 or #20 will be right for those coaches, can't you buy a packet of each and try them out?  Having one redundant packet of couplers left at the end of the exercise seems like a minor cost compared to what you're likely to have to pay to convert all your coaches.  (And there's always eBay...)

 

EDIT: melmerby got there first!

Thanks for the 'extended' explanation!

 

I will want the couplers to be the same height as 'normal' Kadees as I plan to mix-n-match my Mk1 & Mk2 stock (old Lima + new(er) Hornby + new(er) Bachmann) as was common on BR in the 1970s and 1980s.

 

Do you know of anyone actually doing this cut-n-shut to get the Kadee at the right height / length? A few photos would be a great help - if such exist.

 

Ian