Kadee Couplers

[brian777999]

A  This assumes the axles on Brian's item can be driven out through the frame.

 

Harold..

 

That is the main problem : how to get them out without damaging the bogie. Being a metal bogie, there is no flex there at all. I wonder how they got them in ? I did try to replace the plastic wheels on the tender with no luck either. Even though the tender frames are plastic there is very little flex and I was worried about breaking something. I know others have replaced the tender wheels but I am not sure about the front bogie wheels. I will just leave all the wheels if I have to ; the Kadees are the important thing.

Edited June 3, 2018 by brian777999

[ISW]

Keith,

 

There's always 'one' isn't there ... Just as I thought I understood Kadees and NEM pockets, 'cranked NEMs' come into my world. Mutter ...

 

At least a cut-n-shut can be 'adapted' to suit. My first 'port of call' will be to try using my existing #18 with a necessary 'adaptor plate' to get the correct length / height. I just hope all the plastics are compatible with 'plastic magic' or similar.

 

Ian

Fitting Kadees to Bachmann coaches with cranked NEM pockets:

 

Plan A:

As I had a Bachmann EZ-mate 78035 to hand I tried that and it was a perfect fit:

 

Bachmann EZ-Mate 78035:

 

EZ-Mate installed in NEM:

 

Alignment Check:

 

Pity they are 'out of stock' everywhere in UK! So, it was on to:

 

Plan B:

As I had a few Kadee #18 around I fitted one of those and it 'seemed' [1]  to fit, just a lot too short. So, I though, the #20 will be okay. 

[1] - what I had missed was that the #18 was being pressed down by the coach bufferbeam to the correct level ...

 

Anyway, I purchased some #20s to fit to my 4 Bachmann coaches with cranked NEM pockets (models 33-381, 39-371, 39-340, & 39-225C). These are a good fit, but are ~1mm too high just as it had been with the #18 but being longer the #20 did not 'foul' on the bufferbeam.

 

So, as suggested by Keith ('melmerby') I fitted them to the underside of the NEM pocket. As usual (for me) I attached them with a No.0 self-tapping screw.

 

Components to install #20 on Bachmann Cranked NEM:

 

Attached to Cranked NEM:

 

Installed:

 

Alignment check:

 

And the job was done. Many thanks to those of you who pointed me in the right direction.

 

Ian

[melmerby]

I found someone with the 78035 but they wanted 82 quid for twelve pairs!

I declined.

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[HLT 0109]

That is the main problem : how to get them out without damaging the bogie. Being a metal bogie, there is no flex there at all. I wonder how they got them in ? I did try to replace the plastic wheels on the tender with no luck either. Even though the tender frames are plastic there is very little flex and I was worried about breaking something. I know others have replaced the tender wheels but I am not sure about the front bogie wheels. I will just leave all the wheels if I have to ; the Kadees are the important thing.

 

Brian,

 

On the Triang vans I referred to, the metal axles had splines on one end and the were a snug fit in the cast metal frames.  I was advised to punch them out using (eg) a nail - you maight need to flatten the point.  In my case, they did not take much persuading.  Looking again at your picture, the axles appear to protrude beyond the frame - have you a small pair of pliers  that could bridge the frame, putting pressure on the end of axle whilst gripping the inner side of ther frame?  If the axle moves, you will see what I mean.

 

Harold.

[Butler Henderson]

So, as suggested by Keith ('melmerby') I fitted them to the underside of the NEM pocket. As usual (for me) I attached them with a No.0 self-tapping screw.

 

 Ian

 

What length screws did you use or did you cut off the excess once screwed in place?

 

Where did you source them from?

 

MIke

[cctransuk]

No keeper plate on this bogie.

 

DSCN0005.JPG

 

The original release of this bogie had the axles dropped in and the lower edges of the cast frame slots crimped / pressed over to retain them.

 

I can see no evidence of crimping on this bogie, so I am surmising that the axle slots have been modified for later production to allow the axles to be pressed / forced into the slots, so that the force fit retains them.

 

Regards,

John isherwood.

[brian777999]

The original release of this bogie had the axles dropped in and the lower edges of the cast frame slots crimped / pressed over to retain them.

 

I can see no evidence of crimping on this bogie, so I am surmising that the axle slots have been modified for later production to allow the axles to be pressed / forced into the slots, so that the force fit retains them.

 

Regards,

John isherwood.

 

Does that mean that they cannot be removed ? I might try what Harold suggested but I am reluctant to do anything too radical as it may damage the bogie. This is one loco that Hornby should have updated before its release. I would love to see a Bachmann version !

[BR60103]

My TriAng LotI looks like yours. The axle seems to turn with the wheels.

Harold may be thinking of the slightly older cars (like my CKD Princess) where the axle boxes had holes and the axle was pushed in. These had a little bit that would dig into one of the wheel halves.

[cctransuk]

Does that mean that they cannot be removed ? I might try what Harold suggested but I am reluctant to do anything too radical as it may damage the bogie. This is one loco that Hornby should have updated before its release. I would love to see a Bachmann version !

 

Pretty much - it depend on how much force you're prepared to use.

 

I'd cut through the wheels / axles at their midpoint - they'll come out easily then.

 

Then fit new bearings / axles / wheels.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[ISW]

 Ian

 

What length screws did you use or did you cut off the excess once screwed in place?

 

Where did you source them from?

 

MIke

Mike,

 

I use No.0 x 6.4mm Philips Pan head Black self-tappers from ModelFixings.com (just a happy customer - other sources probably exist ...) reference MF-ST30B.

 

Once installed the 'excess' was less than 1mm, so I didn't bother to cut it off. It's not readily visible anyway.

 

If you look back through this thread, I've posted a few Kadee installations, all of which use No.0 self-tappers, although I sometimes use countersink heads (ref: MF-ST55) for that 'flush fitting' look.

 

I stick to screw fixings as it does give the option of retro-fitting the original coupling (unless I had to hack off bits of plastic!) or easily fit / relocate another Kadee.

 

Ian

[ISW]

I found someone with the 78035 but they wanted 82 quid for twelve pairs!

I declined.

 

Cheers

 

Keith

Keith,

 

I think you must have found the same one I did - in USA?. Way too expensive!!

 

Ian

[Butler Henderson]

I have found  78035s not too good when it come to uncoupling as the head does not swivel.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Butler Henderson

[ISW]

I have 78035s not too good when it come to uncoupling as the head does not swivel.

Not a problem for me ...... I only have a single pair (bought as a test from 53A Models in Hull)! I seriously doubt I'll ever buy any more.

 

Ian

[NoelG]

Fitted kadee no 20s to Bachmann bogies for 3D container flat wagon (3D print designed by Neil).  A little plastic card fettling required, but fairly straight forward.

 

Lined up ok with height gauge and running trails proved successful. Limited clearances and space prevented the use of draft gear boxes, so instead no 20 glued on to plastic card extension.

Edited June 6, 2018 by NoelG

[brian777999]

Fitted kadee no 20s to Bachmann bogies for 3D container flat wagon (3D print designed by Neil).  A little plastic card fettling required, but fairly straight forward.

 

Lined up ok with height gauge and running trails proved successful. Limited clearances and space prevented the use of draft gear boxes, so instead no 20 glued on to plastic card extension.

 

What sort of glue are you using ? I have ordered some plastic magic but it has not arrived as yet.

[NoelG]

What sort of glue are you using ? I have ordered some plastic magic but it has not arrived as yet.

 

 

Hi Brian

 

I've been using "Deluxe Materials Rocket" super glue, usually the 5-10 sec, some times the 10-20 sec.  So far it has worked well with a great variety of plastics from the soft shiny stuff Hornby used in the 1970s, ancient Lima, to modern day Bachmann.  I usually rub down the surfaces and the side of the kadee shanks or topside of draft gearboxes before gluing with a micro file or fine sand paper.  I have found it more efficient and faster than drilling and screwing.

 

Noel

 

 

PS: Not sure if 'plastic magic' is best suited to this type of application. Is it not designed for bonding fine plastic styrene parts using a thin paint brush in lid so that minimal solvent is applied and capillary action is used.

Edited June 7, 2018 by NoelG

[steve shorrock]

Hi Guys not sure if i'm allowed to do this but i have alot of 19 and 20 nem Kadees for sale if anyones interested please get in touch

Regards

Steve 

[brian777999]

I have finished attaching a Kadee to the front bogie of the LOTI loco. It is about 1mm too high but I can live with it as I will not be using the front coupler very much. A touch of paint should cover up that bright screw head.  I am also half way through fitting a Kadee 146 to the tender....just waiting for the glue to dry on the plastic supports. The tender coupler will be at the correct height.

Edited June 8, 2018 by brian777999

[nip]

Hi Guys not sure if i'm allowed to do this but i have alot of 19 and 20 nem Kadees for sale if anyones interested please get in touch

Regards

Steve 

Sent you a pm Steve

 

Regards

Bryan

[ISW]

I have finished attaching a Kadee to the front bogie of the LOTI loco. It is about 1mm too high but I can live with it as I will not be using the front coupler very much. A touch of paint should cover up that bright screw head.  I am also half way through fitting a Kadee 146 to the tender....just waiting for the glue to dry on the plastic supports. The tender coupler will be at the correct height.

Brian,

 

A very neat solution to a tricky problem. Solutions like these help the rest of us fix our problems by providing 'ideas'. Thanks.

 

Ian

[Butler Henderson]

I have finished attaching a Kadee to the front bogie of the LOTI loco. It is about 1mm too high but I can live with it as I will not be using the front coupler very much. A touch of paint should cover up that bright screw head.  I am also half way through fitting a Kadee 146 to the tender....just waiting for the glue to dry on the plastic supports. The tender coupler will be at the correct height.

You could thin down the Kadee a bit to reduce the height difference - if you thinned it a bit more towards the front of the section that fits atop the bogie than the remainder the resultant slight downward angle could probably bring the head to a even better height,

[brian777999]

You are welcome Ian. The hardest thing about this job was working up the courage to do it : you need to take a very deep breath before hacking into a brand new loco with a Dremel tool . Here is the tender coupler set at the correct height. I will touch up those pieces of white plastic with some paint tomorrow.

 

Butler : I did think about thinning the front Kadee down a bit but that would not leave too much as it is not all that thick to start with. I might give it a go tomorrow ; I have plenty of spare Kadees on hand.

Edited June 9, 2018 by brian777999

[NoelG]

Video demonstrating uncoupling wagons using compact rare earth magnets.  The magnets are a fraction of the size of kadee's own magnets and are easy to install.  They are cylindrical 5mm diameter and 6mm long. A pair are required offset each side of the track centre line.  The magnets need to be almost need to be flush with the sleepers because they are so powerful they would pull the wagons upwards if they were flush with the top of the rail. Cost £2 for 20 magnets = 10 uncoupling points for 20p each.

 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Neodymium-Super-Strong-Magnet-Small-Round-Disc-Rare-Earth-N50-Grade-5mm-x-6mm/272064785631?hash=item3f58532cdf:m:mHD0AMFopaXcU6hNXdPOqZQ

 

They are so powerful one 5mm x 6mm magnet each side was enough and I had to recess them more than I'd expected to avoid the kadee trip pin being pulled downwards towards the magnet causing the other end of the wagon to lift off its axle. One of the things to bear in mind is if the magnets are not carefully placed could cause wagons to jerk (i.e. if the metal wagon axles and trip pins are too close to the magnet surface).

 

NMRA standards advise that typical 2 axle wagons should have a minimum weight of 50-70g which reduces unwanted movements and snatching. Most BR 4mm RTR rolling stock falls way below this weight.

 

https://www.nmra.org/beginner/weight

[kevinlms]

Video demonstrating uncoupling wagons using compact rare earth magnets. The magnets are a fraction of the size of kadee's own magnets and are easy to install. They are cylindrical 5mm diameter and 6mm long. A pair are required offset each side of the track centre line. The magnets need to be almost need to be flush with the sleepers because they are so powerful they would pull the wagons upwards if they were flush with the top of the rail. Cost £2 for 20 magnets = 10 uncoupling points for 20p each.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9aNsxmxYbQ

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Neodymium-Super-Strong-Magnet-Small-Round-Disc-Rare-Earth-N50-Grade-5mm-x-6mm/272064785631?hash=item3f58532cdf:m:mHD0AMFopaXcU6hNXdPOqZQ

 

They are so powerful one 5mm x 6mm magnet each side was enough and I had to recess them more than I'd expected to avoid the kadee trip pin being pulled downwards towards the magnet causing the other end of the wagon to lift off its axle. One of the things to bear in mind is if the magnets are not carefully placed could cause wagons to jerk (i.e. if the metal wagon axles and trip pins are too close to the magnet surface).

NMRA standards advise that typical 2 axle wagons should have a minimum weight of 50-70g which reduces unwanted movements and snatching. Most BR 4mm RTR rolling stock falls way below this weight.

https://www.nmra.org/beginner/weight

If the magnets are that powerful that they cause those issues, isn't a case of over engineered for the task? Why not stick with the Kadee versions?

[NoelG]

If the magnets are that powerful that they cause those issues, isn't a case of over engineered for the task? Why not stick with the Kadee versions?

 

 

The kadee magnets are rather large and need more installation work. The smaller kadee magnet needs to be cut into the sleepers, and is not very powerful, and the larger under track one needs a fairly large cut into the baseboard making retro fitting a pain.  These are easier to install and less obtrusive once painted over. I will conduct more trials on the layout over the coming months.