Manchester Central, CLC & GN Warehouses & Castlefield Viaducts

[iak]

Doh!!! Read the thread and find the answer

So its D10's and D11's under the roof then maybe.

Sorry I can never get used to seeing LMS/LMR motive power in piccies of "Central" without the odd old GCR beauty lurking B)

And having just looked at ones gallery, I am even more impressed Ron.

Simply gorgeous...

[Arpster]

Blimey, that's one hell of a model! It looks like hours and hours of work have gone into this work of art. I very much look forward to seeing more.

 

Arp

[iankemp]

you sure you didn't get someone in to build that? looks like an architects model! maybe you should do that for a living!! That is one hell of a model to build! So come on how long did it take you to build that?

[PhilH]

Good grief, that is truly amazing. Thanks for posting.

[Ron Heggs]

Thanks for all your enthusiastic comments. Hopefully, this post will answer all your queries

 

I retired in Jan 2003, and started research and trial builds in Feb 2004. Modelling all the various station structures, such as the roof, platform canopies, signal box, bridges, viaducts, pubs, shops, canal locks, etc. and some trackwork has taken so far about 6 years. This last year has been taken up by our move to Spain and getting a good architect to remodel our villa underbuild into one open area without pillars or internal walls for use as a railway room. Hopefully by the end of summer this year I can start to build the open frame baseboards, and really start to build the railway

 

The gables are reasonably rigid, they resist twisting and will take a good load, including an inadvertent fall without damage. The spans when tied together with the transverse beams are also reasonably rigid. I think this says a lot for the prototype structural design

 

The past few years has put a squeeze on plastic strip and extrusion supplies, as most model shops only carry small stocks, and re-ordering is a two to four week cycle. But regular bulk orders usually spur the suppliers to deliver

 

Statistics - On the station roof structure alone there is in excess of 35,000 individual pieces of plastic strip/extrusion. That has taken some cutting, and a large number of replacement knife blades. Although the roof is not yet complete, all the individual pieces have been cut and stored in separate containers awaiting the final push

 

A typical span use to take about 8 hours, including the individual cutting of strip. But after the bulk cutting project, a span now takes under 3 hours

 

The gables each took about a week, plus 2 days for the glazing bars and glazing

 

Usually, I shuffle between building tasks on different individual structures. This keeps the mind alert and stops the feeling of lack of progress from building up

 

The Deansgate Bridge with the electric signalling gantry which is a mixture of foamboard, mount board and printed card brickwork, with plastic for the ornamental bridge steelwork and the gantry, and re-modelling the Eckon LED signal with hidden wiring, took in total about 10 days. That includes the CAD drawing and total build time. Some of the incidental buildings, such as the Crown Hotel on Deansgate also took about 10 days, whereas the Castlefield Viaduct took in excess of two weeks, and is an ongoing project

 

I have started a trial build of the original Castlefield Viaduct, which spans the MSJ&R into Salford, and is far more detailed, but it is only a single span

 

But today, I am re-building the Station Restaurant block, which was part of the trial build, and will incorporate correct dimensions and detailing, and plastic strip built windows (there is only 20, so not worth going for etched brass)

[jackrob]

This is phenomenal! How did you become so good at model making? Those structures look professional quality.

[Ron Heggs]

This is phenomenal! How did you become so good at model making? Those structures look professional quality.

 

Although I have an engineering degree, and was chief engineer for almost 30 of my 38 years in one the largest construction companies in Europe, and also wrote engineering design software during 25 of those years, my passions have always been mathematics, painting and drawing

I had never attempted modelling until this project, that is why I built a trial model of part of the station. Just to see if it modelling was within my abilities, and was up to a standard acceptable to myself

I suppose my whole background has brought me to this most enjoyable pastime

[bugs bunny]

I can only echo everybody else's comments fantastic.......looking forward to seeing more.

 

Kind regards Alan

 

 

[Oldddudders]

So, once again RMWeb introduces me to modelling on an implausible scale. I am not familiar with the original, having only arrived there once, on 26th September 1970, but I seemed to get regular invitations to events at Gmex in my last years at work. Anyway, who gives a stuff when I can enjoy this superb reconstruction in 4mm. Terribly impressed!

[ColinW]

Hi Ron, Have just seen your pics in the gallery, got to say your buildings are stunning. look forward to seeing more of them.

 

Colin

[Michael Delamar]

fantastic work Ron,

 

sorry if its been asked before, will you be doing the whole roof, a freind of mine is building Liverpool lime st in 4mm and has decided to have a few sections removable/open to allow people to see in, I think having the entire roof would be good even if its only practicle to use it when taking photos etc.

 

Ive

often wondered if the roof at Manchester central shared any design similarities with the now demolished roof at Liverpool central, as if a model were to ever be made, someone could take info from the surviving roof at Manchester

 

 

look forward to seeing more pics

 

cheers

 

Mike

[Ron Heggs]

fantastic work Ron,

 

sorry if its been asked before, will you be doing the whole roof, a freind of mine is building Liverpool lime st in 4mm and has decided to have a few sections removable/open to allow people to see in, I think having the entire roof would be good even if its only practicle to use it when taking photos etc.

 

Ive

often wondered if the roof at Manchester central shared any design similarities with the now demolished roof at Liverpool central, as if a model were to ever be made, someone could take info from the surviving roof at Manchester

 

 

look forward to seeing more pics

 

cheers

 

Mike

 

The whole roof is being modelled, overall length including frontage canopy will be 2200mm long and 850mm wide. Still deliberating on whether to complete clad and glaze the roof and have webcams installed for viewing interior on computer screen or leave completely unclad/glazed. In either case will probably have 2 bays over loco release area removable just in case of a problem. Will arrange for auto-uncoupling of loco from lead coach under normal operations

 

The roof of Lverpool Central was smaller in length and width, but did have a similar basic steel design above eaves level, but of a much lighter construction

 

The following web link has a number photos of the roof of Liverpool Central

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/l/liverpool_central_hl/index.shtml

[Ron Heggs]

Good stuff Ron

 

How long is the station itself? As the roof is 6ft + long is a section to be removable to get to derailments etc?

 

Cheers

 

Jim

 

Sorry Jim, had so many comments I missed your question, have just answered similar question from Michael Delamar

 

If you have any further questions please ask

 

All the best

[roger440]

The whole roof is being modelled, overall length including frontage canopy will be 2200mm long and 850mm wide. Still deliberating on whether to complete clad and glaze the roof and have webcams installed for viewing interior on computer screen or leave completely unclad/glazed. In either case will probably have 2 bays over loco release area removable just in case of a problem. Will arrange for auto-uncoupling of loco from lead coach under normal operations

 

The roof of Lverpool Central was smaller in length and width, but did have a similar basic steel design above eaves level, but of a much lighter construction

 

The following web link has a number photos of the roof of Liverpool Central

http://www.disused-s..._hl/index.shtml

 

2.2m long :unsure::unsure:

 

Thats nuts!

 

Very very impressed. Id suggest glazing it, i think it would look better.

[Ron Heggs]

CASTLEFIELD VIADUCTS - MANCHESTER

 

There are four viaducts at Castlefield, Manchester, built almost entirely in brick. Where they pass over railway lines and canal wharves, steel and wrought iron bridging structures employing various structural design arrangements have been used

 

Castlefield Viaducts -1847-1849 Manchester South Junction & Altrincham Railway, the one on the Altrincham line is the most southerly of all the viaducts and the other on the line to Salford/Eccles passes under the two Midland viaducts. East of Castlefield Junction the lines extend to Oxford Road and London Road (Piccadilly). (Presently used by Metrolink)

 

Cornbrook Viaduct -1877 Midland Railway, built adjacent to and the North of the 1849 Castlefield Viaduct, was used mainly for trains to the South and East. (Presently used by Metrolink)

 

Castlefield Viaduct -1894 Midland Railway, built adjacent to and the North of the 1877 Cornbrook Viaduct, carried the lines to the West, Liverpool, Cornbrook Carriage sidings and Trafford Park locomotive shed. (Presently disused)

 

The lines into Manchester Central Station, CLC Goods Warehouse and GNR Deansgate Goods Warehouse used the two viaducts built by the Midland Railway

 

The 1877 viaduct has two separate bridge spans, whereas the 1894 viaduct is a single bridge comprising eight individual spans - The 1894 viaduct bridge structure is already work in progress, see Gallery link

 

Google Maps link :

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Castlefield&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=22.297654,67.456055&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Castlefield,+Greater+Manchester,+United+Kingdom&ll=53.4746,-2.256306&spn=0.00273,0.010278&t=k&z=18

 

Modelling the 1877 viaduct bridge #1

This bridge spans the MSJ&R lines to Salford, and is built on the skew. The northern span runs east-west and has a length of 150ft (600mm). The southern span runs at an angle of 3.1° from east to west, and is 166ft (664mm) long. The resulting bridge deck is 84ft (332mm) wide at the east end, and 66ft (264mm) wide at the west end. The skew angle is -63° from North. The lines run on a curve between the bridge spans

 

Plan of bridge without the two span braces

Plan of bridge with under deck steel dimensions (4mm scale)

North and South Spans - south elevations

3D view of South Span

3D views of Vertical Truss Structure with strengthening plates

Vertical Truss Structure without strengthening plates - Modelled in plastic

 

Plastic Modelling in 4mm scale

 

General comment

Butanone/MEK (Methyl Ether Ketone) is used for temporary assembly where necessary

EMA Plastic Weld is used for all permanent/final assembly

Templates and jigs were not used

 

Vertical Truss Structures

The structure is built using four pieces of Evergreen 291 - 60^th angle section, each 59mm long, with a 10^th x 40^th x 7mm long strip sandwiched between them at each end. Eight diagonal strips of the same section 7.5mm long are fitted at 5mm intervals between two of the angle sections. This is repeated for the other side, so that the diagonal strips appear as X’s, when viewed from either side

 

Using a 0.55mm drill bit, holes are made through each pair of diagonal strips forming an X, spinning the drill bit with finger and thumb. Pieces of 0.5mm plastic rod 2mm long are fitted through each pair of adjacent holes, to represent the fixing bolts

 

Additional fixing plates/shims, 20^th x 100^th x 7.5mm long, are added at the end of each pair of angle sections

 

When constructing structures with strengthening plates, two strips 20^th x 4mm x 59mm are fixed instead of the four fixing plates/shims

 

The north span requires 13 in total, six without strengthening plates, and seven with strengthening plates.

 

The south span requires 15 in total, seven without strengthening plates, and eight with strengthening plates

 

South span – Lower beam

 

Lower Span Beams

The lower beams are constructed from two vertical strips 20^th x 7mm, fitted top and bottom with strips 20^th x 60^th. Strips 10^th x 30^th are fixed vertically within the angle formed by the top and bottom strips

 

Spacer plates are made from 20^th plastic card 7.5mm wide x 7mm high with strips 20^th x 60^th x 7.5mm fitted to the bottom edge

 

The two channel beams are fitted with the spacer plates at 40mm intervals. On the north span the first spacer is 30mm from the west end, and the last spacer is 50mm from the east end. The dimensions for the south span are 32mm from either end. The plates are fixed flush with the bottom of the channels

 

The ends of the each beam assembly are fitted with pieces of plastic card 20^th x 8mm x 11.5mm

 

Upper Span Beams

The upper beams are constructed from two vertical strips 20^th x 7mm, fitted at the bottom only with strips 20^th x 60^th. Strips 10^th x 30^th are fixed vertically within the angle formed by the bottom strips

 

Spacer plates are made from 20^th plastic card 7.5mm wide x 7mm high with strips 20^th x 60^th x 7.5mm fitted to the bottom edge

 

On the north span the first spacer is 20mm from the west end, and the last spacer is 40mm from the east end. These dimensions are 20mm from west and east ends, on the south span

 

A strip of plastic card 20^th x 11.5mm wide is fixed across the top of the two channels with 1.5mm overhang along each side. Strips 10^th x 30^th are fixed vertically to each side of the assembly, within the angle formed by the top strip

 

End pieces are not required

 

Sloping End Beams

Following the differences shown on the drawing elevations, these are built in a similar fashion as the top beams

 

Next step is the assembly of both North and South Spans

Work in progress

 

..... to be continued

[s55evo]

Hi Ron,

I must say the size of your project is breathtaking and the execution is superb.

I am surprised no one has asked so far, but could you give us all some details of your methods of constructing brick structures, we can see the overall effect but the detail would be very useful.

Thanks Tony.

[Ron Heggs]

[s55evo]

 

I have made a small reply/comment to one of my gallery images about the brickwork construction methods

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=viewimage&img=24727&st=#comment_5986

 

If you feel I need start another topic on the Card Construction Methods used on Manchester Central please advise

 

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the reply, I had missed that detail, I for one would like more detail, I have had some success with structure modeling but making a start is the hardest part and any new techniques may spur me and others to give it a try.

Regards,

Tony.

[Ron Heggs]

Continuing construction of the Bridge Spans-

 

The vertical trusses have been completed and the South Span has been built

Assembly of span with just the vertical trusses and the end joists in place

Completed span. The central five trusses and the two end trusses are without vertical reinforcement plates

Closeup of span showing the gusset plates and diagonal bracings. Cross bracing is only to the three central trusses

In case you think these plastic structure are flimsy, study this next picture

No discernible deflection i.e. less than 1mm, and YES the cans are full and unopened, and NO I didn’t empty them immediately after taking the picture. That is a loading of 1 litre / 1kg

So the complete bridge with the two spans support the bridge deck should be able to support a minimum of 2 kg without any significant deflection

The next post will be the completed bridge structure with the bridge deck in place, in about two weeks time

 

 

 

[MrSimon]

Hi, Look forward to seeing 6 cans on the completed bridge! Amazing work

 

Simon

[Poggy1165]

Simply awesome!

 

I spent many happy hours on that station as a lad. I would never have dreamed that someone would have the bottle to model it.

[Stubby47]

In case you think these plastic structure are flimsy

I'd have thought that these spans were actually stronger (in a scale sense) than the prototype ones - the plastic must have a higher tensile strength for it's size than the metal work does.

 

Stunning modelling though...

 

Stu

[Mucky Duck]

…YES the cans are full and unopened, and NO I didn’t empty them immediately after taking the picture…

Commendable restraint as well as great modelling!

[Jamie]

I've seen some dodgy looking bridges on model railways in my time. This isn't one of them. Beautiful structural modelling, and pleasing to see it function as well as look the part.

 

I'd have thought that these spans were actually stronger (in a scale sense) than the prototype ones - the plastic must have a higher tensile strength for it's size than the metal work does.

No - try stretching a plastruct rod compared to a metal rod until it fails for example.

[edcayton]

I would never have dreamed that someone would have the bottle to model it.

 

Clearly he didn't, that's why he used the tins! I've not seen this before, and I am as impressed as everyone else with it.

Two questions:

1) what CAD package did you use, and was it wire frame, surface or solid modelling?

 

2) are the viaducts the ones that are always being shown on telly programmes set in Manchester?

 

Ed