clecklewyke Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I find it fascinating that we have here two similar, very ambitious projects - Manchester Central and Liverpool Lime Street. In each case there is a very sophisticated approach being used, with clever use of CAD (way beyond my abilities) but two very different types of materials being used - plastic and metal. The first is much easier to manipulate and join but the latter is much stronger. I wonder whether the two protagonists have compared notes re strength, time to manufacture etc.? And have they had second thoughts? And the obvious station to complete an ambitious trilogy would not be York but Hull Paragon - the other end of the Transpennine route. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Thanks Woodenhead & Sir Douglas !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Hi, Ian As you will gather Liverpool Lime Street is a group effort primarily built for exhibition purposes, and would of necessity have to be much stronger to withstand the requirement for repeated erection, dismantling and transportation Whereas, Manchester Central is a one-man build for personal stay-at-home use This is reflected in materials used and ultimately the overall costings Speaking purely for myself - I follow LLS with great interest and wish them well with their project As you rightly point out we have both used CAD to meet our different aims for the builds, both in 2D and 3D We have not compared notes on the builds or manufacturing processes, as the materials used require quite different approaches ... and I have not had or envisage having second thoughts on the project still to be completed, with a year or two still to go. If anything my interest is increasing as the project proceeds I think that you will a need third protagonist to come forward for the proposition to build Hull Paragon - I for one would need a great deal more space and time Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 And the obvious station to complete an ambitious trilogy would not be York but Hull Paragon - the other end of the Transpennine route. Oh I don't know, I for one would pay good money to see a scale model of York station! Sorry to go off on a tangent, Ron. You must have to be incredibly well-organised to plan your deliveries of materials, and your daughters must get some funny looks going through customs! Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Oh I don't know, I for one would pay good money to see a scale model of York station! Sorry to go off on a tangent, Ron. You must have to be incredibly well-organised to plan your deliveries of materials, and your daughters must get some funny looks going through customs! Cheers, Will Hi, Will I think it's a case of having a few different models in various stages of construction, and if a material supply problem arises which causes a pause in one model, then I can switch to another - I think that is planning by necessity rather than by design My eldest daughter usually travels back to the UK at least twice a year, and my youngest daughter has just moved over here this week, and brought a large volume of modelling materials via the household removals firm, which can't be delivered by more conventional means i.e. post or courier etc. I am sure customs have seen a number of obscure and odd items, and rarely get phased by anything Cheers Ron 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Thanks Stefan !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 Thanks Peter (x 3) & Will !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaternosterRow Posted January 19, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19, 2012 Hi Ron Hadn't seen your station roof until today and can't stop looking. Awesome engineering work and I love the first shot of the cans of lager suspended underneath to demonstrate how strong the structure is. Looks like the heat over there last summer didn't put you off too much! How long has it taken in man hours to build? This is real dedication to detail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 Hi Ron Hadn't seen your station roof until today and can't stop looking. Awesome engineering work and I love the first shot of the cans of lager suspended underneath to demonstrate how strong the structure is. Looks like the heat over there last summer didn't put you off too much! How long has it taken in man hours to build? This is real dedication to detail. Hi, Thanks for your kind comments The station structure was started back in 2004, and since work has been put off a few times whilst building other structures, such as viaducts, etc I reckon about 350 - 400 manhours have been spent so far on the roof structure - Work has again been suspended whilst I am involved in shop fitting my daughters cafe/bar here in Spain Looks like a return to modelling will be about mid February Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 Hi, Andy Y Thanks for your silent comments - I guess you like the 'load tests' There may be a few more tests when the Castlefield Viaduct build is restarted after the station roof is completed Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Thanks Jenny & Sir D !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 Thanks Welly & BR(W) !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welly Posted February 4, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 4, 2012 Hi Ron - I love the way you used Plasticard to build the viaducts and the train shed to get something almost as strong as the metal built model of Liverpool Lime Street's train sheds as featured on this forum! I was surprised that you hadn't decided on the track gauge to use yet you have all the locos and carriages your layout needs. I like the sample pointwork built in OO but you appear to be thinking about EM or P4? If I were you, I would stick to OO gauge to save on the conversion work and concentrate on correcting wobbly wheels and back to backs. If you are determined to have something wider, bear in mind that steam locos are not as easy to convert to EM/P4 as diesel locos or rolling stock. For P4, every wheel needs to be changed which can work out to be expensive on a large fleet, for EM at least some rtr wheels can be used on longer axles. You appear to be a meticulous kind of modeller so I would like to suggest that you look at your rtr fleet, note the wheel width, back to back, flange depths, width between bearings, axle lengths, width under footplates and any other dimension that may constrain the use of wider track gauge and list them on a spreadsheet. You may find that some stock will be easier to convert to EM than P4 or that you would need to replace every steam locomotive wheel even for EM which will make your mind up for you! I would like to direct you to this thread to give you food for thought: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/47902-em-gauge-less-hassle-than-p4/ I'm looking forward to seeing track and trains on your layout whatever track gauge you choose! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 Just received my Christmas presents and Pre-Christmas orders from the UK (all had to be delivered by road by two of my daughters) - - for the Castlefield Viaduct stanchions/pillars (14 off) Moulding Silicone 25 Shore Polyurethane Fastcast - for the viaducts and train shed roof structure 16 large cans of Halfords Grey Primer 6 cans of Halfords Ford Sierra Beige - for various concrete structures 2 cans of Plastikote Suede Effect Spray Paint amongst other non-modelling presents They should keep me going for a month or two Thanks Jim, It was too good an opportunity to miss, to take advantage of the road transport available over the Christmas/New Year period to bring in plentiful supplies of modelling materials (paints, and moulding & casting), which would not be available by other delivery methods Next opportunity will be end of April Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 Hi Ron - I love the way you used Plasticard to build the viaducts and the train shed to get something almost as strong as the metal built model of Liverpool Lime Street's train sheds as featured on this forum! I was surprised that you hadn't decided on the track gauge to use yet you have all the locos and carriages your layout needs. I like the sample pointwork built in OO but you appear to be thinking about EM or P4? If I were you, I would stick to OO gauge to save on the conversion work and concentrate on correcting wobbly wheels and back to backs. If you are determined to have something wider, bear in mind that steam locos are not as easy to convert to EM/P4 as diesel locos or rolling stock. For P4, every wheel needs to be changed which can work out to be expensive on a large fleet, for EM at least some rtr wheels can be used on longer axles. You appear to be a meticulous kind of modeller so I would like to suggest that you look at your rtr fleet, note the wheel width, back to back, flange depths, width between bearings, axle lengths, width under footplates and any other dimension that may constrain the use of wider track gauge and list them on a spreadsheet. You may find that some stock will be easier to convert to EM than P4 or that you would need to replace every steam locomotive wheel even for EM which will make your mind up for you! I would like to direct you to this thread to give you food for thought: http://www.rmweb.co....hassle-than-p4/ I'm looking forward to seeing track and trains on your layout whatever track gauge you choose! Thanks Welly for your comments, and the weblink Still time to make a final decision - but with some 250+ metres of handbuilt track and 120+ turnouts/slips etc. still to build, the additional time to convert all my present locos/rolling stock to enable any meaningful operations to take place could finally force me to stay with OO gauge Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welly Posted February 5, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2012 ^^^ Out of curiousity - how many locos and carriages do you have? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 ^^^ Out of curiousity - how many locos and carriages do you have? 15 Steam + 6 Diesel & DMU 29 Carriages 46 Wagons - and still collecting, but not a priority at present Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welly Posted February 6, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 6, 2012 Hi Ron - check out the OO trackwork on this layout! : http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/18451-peterborough-north/page__st__1275 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve4rosegrove Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Hi Ron - check out the OO trackwork on this layout! : http://www.rmweb.co..../page__st__1275 Actually I think that this helps. That link shows exactly why Ron should be encouraged to avoid narrow gauge! The head on shots of the K3 (photo 6) and of theA4 really show up how 4mm scale locos look far too wide for the 3.5 mm scale track. Even the other shots really jar with me as it looks like good model track, but not much like looking at the real thing. What a pity it would be to see those beautifully made viaducts and bridges spoilt with tracks that are so obviously narrower than in any picture of the original. Those sorts of things are important to me, but others have different interests of course. Steve 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Green Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 As you will gather Liverpool Lime Street is a group effort primarily built for exhibition purposes, and would of necessity have to be much stronger to withstand the requirement for repeated erection, dismantling and transportation Not quite true. Lime Street is basically one man's layout intended to stay at home. As it was built in sections we decided to make it fully transportable to give it a wider audience. I designed and built the roof. The only reason it is metal rather than plastic is that I am more familiar with the former. Today we had BRM magazine and Andy York of RMWeb taking photos for a future issue of the magazine. This hopefully will be the April issue published in March. I haven't had the opportunity to discuss modelling procedures with Ron but we do follow each others progress with interest. I am sure we would meet up if we ever got the chance. (Do you ever get to Lancashire Ron?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Not quite true. Lime Street is basically one man's layout intended to stay at home. As it was built in sections we decided to make it fully transportable to give it a wider audience. I designed and built the roof. The only reason it is metal rather than plastic is that I am more familiar with the former. Today we had BRM magazine and Andy York of RMWeb taking photos for a future issue of the magazine. This hopefully will be the April issue published in March. I haven't had the opportunity to discuss modelling procedures with Ron but we do follow each others progress with interest. I am sure we would meet up if we ever got the chance. (Do you ever get to Lancashire Ron?) Hi. Les Good to hear from you Sorry to jump to the conclusion that your project was started by a group - the undertaking is a modelling masterpiece being enjoyed by many I am envious of your roof structure build, as I am not at all competent in metal working. Being a late newcomer to modelling I chose plastic as it seemed to easier to work with Since moving to Spain 2 years ago I have not been back to the UK, although I have a weekend visit to Bristol planned for the end of April I look forward to watching your progress with great interest, and also seeing the BRM article, and Andy's pictures in a future RMWeb Emag Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Green Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 A short history of LLS. The model is the lifetime's work of John Holden. It is the third (and final!) manifestation of the layout. As it progressed he asked a few other people if they would help out with some of the things he was not confident with. Hence he obtained the expertise of a few friends that were keen to help. Chris Hewitt did the trackwork and original buildings. More recently Steve Hewitt built all the signals, Geoff Peters did the software control, Rob Harrison did the weathering of buildings and locos. I was asked to draw up the positions of the columns on the platforms. In a previous life I was in charge of one of the wind tunnels at BAE Systems and had some knowledge of the production of very high tech models for the tunnels. John expected to make the support columns from half inch dowel. Rather than that we rapid proototyped all the different columns and had accurate castings made. These are what you now see on the layout. The roof was modelled in AutoCad to see if the final model would capture the feel of the original roof. From that point it was easy to have all the components chemically etched and a group of four of us made the sub structures before I did final asembly. I was not confident in using plastic for the roof thinking it would not be stong enough, though your photos seem to disprove this. Though I am apppehensive about plastic going brittle over time and it could easily be damaged. You may correct me with this point! My next project for the layout is the North Western Hotel which is on the model as a proof of concept model. At this stage I have done abut 90% of the model in 3D modelling on the PC. Poduction should start later this year. That will be another story. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artizen Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 OK Ron, you've had a month's holiday. How is the layout progressing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 OK Ron, you've had a month's holiday. How is the layout progressing? Hi,Ian Coincidence, I have just finished the refurb work after 10 weeks, at my daughter's cafe/bar at Altea, here in Spain - Official opening tomorrow - just the odd beer So now it's back to work on the Train Shed with the last two spans, which will enable the last six bays to be completed with another 102 transverse roof beams Cheers Ron 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artizen Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Yay!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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