meil Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I understand these were of a generic design and were issued in Midland and GWR livery (I had both types at one time - lord only knows where they are now). . John More likely the maroon livery of the GWR in the early part of the last century. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 More likely the maroon livery of the GWR in the early part of the last century. The corridor clerestories were issued in Midland Railway livery R1490 / 2913 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-RAILWAYS-R-MIDLAND-CLERESTORY-COACH-SET-/300867057330?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item460d12f6b2 Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 More likely the maroon livery of the GWR in the early part of the last century. It's definitely MR livery, as they have class numerals on the doors. Unfortunately it's difficult/impossible to remove these or it could be used as the 1912-22 livery. They are, of course, no use whatsoever as Midland coaches, because the clerestories are the GWR pattern. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOARD OF TRADE Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Well,there are a number of references to a few ex GWR Clerestories making it into the Carmine and Cream livery although whether any made it to be reliveried into the later Crimson and Cream livery I cannot say(no nonsense about "Blood and Custard please). However I cannot imagine that such as survived would have been used on anything other than secondary branch line duties. Also there is reference in Rear's book Branch Lines of North Wales of there being a coach still in GWR livery and markings being part of a set working one of the branch lines from Bangor in the fifties! My copy isn't to hand so I cannot recall or check which branch and whether or not it was a Clerestory but I am sure others can help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted June 1, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 1, 2013 This was indeed one way that old clerestorys might find their way into branchline duties. There is, for example, a 1936 photo in Colin Maggs' Rail Centres: Bristol showing 5512 at Pylle Hill, just south of Bristol TM, with a B set (E140 I think, though possibly E145) and a strengthening clerestory that might well be a C10 or similar. The train is heading for the Portishead branch. The clerestory is, of course, a non-corridor type as would suit such services. Perhaps such a strengthener was added for early morning and late afternoon services? Nick Ten years out and the wrong branch line, but a perfect idea for something to model.I had thought previously the holiday workings would be my only route to clestories Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 I am surprised the Hornby have not reissued these short clerestory coaches in some form or another : they go for very high prices on ebay. Even the replacement bogies to give the correct buffer height have now disappeared from the market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 I am surprised the Hornby have not reissued these short clerestory coaches in some form or another : they go for very high prices on ebay. Even the replacement bogies to give the correct buffer height have now disappeared from the market. I noticed one in a Thomas the Tank Engine box somewhere in all the stuff about new Hornby releases. I didn't look at the bogies, but assume they're the same old BR ones Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 I am surprised the Hornby have not reissued these short clerestory coaches in some form or another : they go for very high prices on ebay. Even the replacement bogies to give the correct buffer height have now disappeared from the market. So which 'replacement' bogies were these? Not Hornby, for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 There were several makes of whitemetal and etched brass Dean 8ft 6in bogies available (I think I've got three different ones), but as far as I know none are available at the moment. I could be wrong though, as I already have enough for all my Tri-ang Clerestories, when I get round to them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 They were sold by East Kent Models a few years ago. I am sure they were Hornby (made in China). They were plastic but did not have the raised ''step'' so that when fitted to the carriage it gave the correct buffer height. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 The modern Hornby Clerestories have the right bogies, so presumably they were spares from that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted November 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 29, 2015 I have several of the 'long', gangwayed type including two bought recently and cheaply in the pre 1928 livery, which I'm changing to WW2 brown. I noticed the bogies run on 12.6mm wagon wheels which look (and are) too small. The bogies won't take 14.1mm coach wheels without some surgery to get them in and rotating freely. The buffer height changed by less than 1mm but was an improvement when compared with the Hornby Maunsell which was handy in the workroom. I assume these had Mansell wheels when built (?);if so would they still have had them by the early '40s? Photos aren't usually very helpful for wheels. I have some Romford Mansells which I might substitute for the rather modern looking Hornby disc wheels I've used. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 I've got the right size EM wheels in mine, bought when they first came out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 The modern Hornby Clerestories have the right bogies, so presumably they were spares from that. But they are far too long for the original 'short' clerestories, and cannot be simply used as replacements without major work to shorten them, and modifying to fit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 They were bogies made especially for the short clerestory coaches ; I am sure of that. I simply pulled off the old bogies and inserted the new ones. I had to ream out the axle bearings using the Micromark truck tuner so that I could use Hornby metal coach wheels. The coaches looked much better when running at the correct buffer height. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 They were bogies made especially for the short clerestory coaches ; I am sure of that. I simply pulled off the old bogies and inserted the new ones. I had to ream out the axle bearings using the Micromark truck tuner so that I could use Hornby metal coach wheels. The coaches looked much better when running at the correct buffer height. The only bogies that Hornby has ever used on the short clerestories were BR bogies (and that was the early ones, when they were permanently attached, and also the later 'plug-in' type), and totally inappropriate. The 'made especially' type you mention, while they may give a correct buffer height, are still incorrect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 The modern Hornby Clerestories have the right bogies, so presumably they were spares from that. The long (gangwayed) clerestories run on 10' Dean bogies and the Hornby model has a reasonable representation of that. The short (non-gangwayed) clerestories would have run on 8'6" Dean bogies (or possibly 6'4" ones). Both 8'6" and 6'4" bogies were made by Slaters for their clerestory coaches, but these are overly complex and don't run particularly well. 247 Developments used to have 8'6" (and 10') Dean bogies in whitemetal. Mallard/Blacksmith used to make 8'6" bogies. There are/were other suppliers, but I only have examples of the ones I've listed. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 These are the assorted Dean 8ft 6in bogies I have, with some later comments about what make they are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 The long (gangwayed) clerestories run on 10' Dean bogies and the Hornby model has a reasonable representation of that. The short (non-gangwayed) clerestories would have run on 8'6" Dean bogies (or possibly 6'4" ones). Both 8'6" and 6'4" bogies were made by Slaters for their clerestory coaches, but these are overly complex and don't run particularly well. 247 Developments used to have 8'6" (and 10') Dean bogies in whitemetal. Mallard/Blacksmith used to make 8'6" bogies. There are/were other suppliers, but I only have examples of the ones I've listed. Adrian As supplied the Tri-ang clerestories 'look right' on 8' 6" bogies, but the coaches they most look like, the D37 and C19 seconds (later thirds) and A4 firsts, ran on 10' bogies. (Ignoring the width question.) * The D37 needs an extra luggage compartment - build two and there are enough third class compartments left over to make a full third. (7, 8 and 10 compartment coaches are available to chose from - the 10 compartment one ran on 10' bogies and there was a version with an elliptical roof). IIRC the second needs another compartment and all need shortening, conversely the first has seven compartments, but they need lengthening. Mine mainly run on K's bogies, but I do have a set of Mallard 6' 4" in the 'to do' box waiting for a suitable body........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 The whole coach was incorrect At least these bogies (whoever made them) corrected the buffer height issue. This was one of my main complaints because I was using 3 link couplers at the time and the correct buffer height was important. I am thinking of going to Kadees so buffer height would not be crucial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 The Hornby 10ft Deans appear on eBay from time to time. I have just bought 11 of them for £11 recently.(not sure what to do with the 11th???) I use them on kit builds and they look fine when storming around the train set at 60mph behind a Saint. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted December 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 2, 2015 Which wheels have you used on them? Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Which wheels have you used on them? Pete Mansell type (or however you spell them) from Alan Gibson. Ref 4004 3’7½” 14mm Mansell wheels @£1.35 per axle. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 I've recently been doing a large sort out of rolling stock and I've come across my Hornby GWR Clerestory stock. The models I have are: R4120C GWR Clesestory Brake Coach 3371 R4199D GWR Clerestory Coach 954 (Unboxed) R.122 GWR Clerestory Composite Coach 1602 R.123 GWR Clerestory Brake Coach 337 Can anyone tell me how accurate these in particular models are please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 I've recently been doing a large sort out of rolling stock and I've come across my Hornby GWR Clerestory stock. The models I have are: R4120C GWR Clesestory Brake Coach 3371 R4199D GWR Clerestory Coach 954 (Unboxed) R.122 GWR Clerestory Composite Coach 1602 R.123 GWR Clerestory Brake Coach 337 Can anyone tell me how accurate these in particular models are please? See post #4 and the rest of the discussion in this thread. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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