Bachmann FFA/FGA early container flats

[Fat Controller]

I must have misread that link as I thought there was only one prototype set

I hadn't realised the vacuum brake container flats on boulby traffic had started o condor trains.

I used to drive those trains to boulby when they were around

Back in 1987, I helped measure the various types used for the Boulby traffic, then stored at Tees Yard. IIRC, there were several broadly similar types of wagon used:-

Wagons with 'Boplate' ends remaining.

Wagons with a curb-rail remaining.

Those built with steel floors (the former Condor wagons).

The 'Conflat' conversion was also used to carry export steel from various South Wales works to Newport Docks for shipment. Former Freightliner 'flat' containers were used, but they remained on the wagon, and were not shipped.

Unconverted Boplate Es were also used to carry pairs of 20' open ISO boxes of clay from Cornwall to Avonmouth for export, and later, tin ore from Avonmouth to Capper Pass's Humberside refinery. 

[rembrow]

I don't believe they were on that one. The piggy bank lives to see another day (or month).

 

Interesting. The Bachmann Times at beginning of June stated their status as 'In shipping', as was the TMC commissioned double bolsters and plate wagons. The TMC models are expected mid July, so is there another shipment on the seas?

[paul 27]

It varied from train to train; the longest had six five-wagon sets, IIRC. At various times Stratford, and Crewe Basford Hall have served as locations where trains with sections for various locations have been formed or split.

Was thinking of the early mid 60s period  what would typically make up a train.

Edited June 30, 2018 by paul 27

[Enterprisingwestern]

Was thinking of the early mid 60s period  what would typically make up a train.

 

Which mid 60's exactly?

Where from.

Where to.

In multiples of 5 primarily.

Don't forget the guards accomodation.

 

Mike.

[Fat Controller]

Was thinking of the early mid 60s period  what would typically make up a train.

More important than the number of 5-wagon sets in a train is that the containers would be almost entirely Freightliner's own ones, with a maximum container length of a scale 27'. Most services ran between large urban centres in the early days, apart from those that ran to the Irish Sea ports, and the boxes were bottom lift only. By 1966, boxes were beginning to be top-lift, ISO-compatible, and the first maritime containers were beginning to appear.

[hmrspaul]

I didn't realise there was 100 prototype 42' vacuum braked ones. What became of these? Don't think I've ever seen a picture of one

I don't understand where you get 100 from reading LTSV. There were 50 Condor Conflat B http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bogiecondor

 

Perhaps the Conflat ISO ex Boplates http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brconflatiso and the Cobra Conflats http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/cobraconflat

 

There were a few BR built rectanks soon converted to Conflat C http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brfreightliner

 

Roger silsbury in Collins only mentions a single 4 unit set of 'short' freightliner wagons lot 3480 and LTSV appears to have copied that. And I can only see one photo of these wagons page 100 upper

 

Paul

[russ p]

I don't understand where you get 100 from reading LTSV. There were 50 Condor Conflat B http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bogiecondor

 

Perhaps the Conflat ISO ex Boplates http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brconflatiso and the Cobra Conflats http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/cobraconflat

 

There were a few BR built rectanks soon converted to Conflat C http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brfreightliner

 

Roger silsbury in Collins only mentions a single 4 unit set of 'short' freightliner wagons lot 3480 and LTSV appears to have copied that. And I can only see one photo of these wagons page 100 upper

 

Paul

I read it wrong Paul, what became of the prototype four set?

[paul 27]

More important than the number of 5-wagon sets in a train is that the containers would be almost entirely Freightliner's own ones, with a maximum container length of a scale 27'. Most services ran between large urban centres in the early days, apart from those that ran to the Irish Sea ports, and the boxes were bottom lift only. By 1966, boxes were beginning to be top-lift, ISO-compatible, and the first maritime containers were beginning to appear.

I think five wagons is enough plus a BG  early period 64 - 65  will  have to compromise on container length.

[rembrow]

Just bumped this topic to ask if any retail forum members have had an update from Bachmann about delivery of the FFA/FGA wagons. The Bachmann Times at beginning of June showed them as 'In Shipping' as were the Plate and Bolster wagons for the TMC commission. The later models arrived at TMC in mid July, but no news on the Freightliners. The Bachmann website 'availability' index hasn't been updated since mid June, so can't get any current info from normal sources.

[RBAGE]

I spoke to "the man" on the Bachmann stand at Railex NE on this very matter. His only advice was September. He wouldn't specify when in September but next month it seems to be. 

[Dagworth]

The trouble is that someone put the container models into a container that the models were modelled on, this created a vortex in the space/time continuum and now the models and the containing container can no longer be located...

 

Andi

[Satan's Goldfish]

I spoke to "the man" on the Bachmann stand at Railex NE on this very matter. His only advice was September. He wouldn't specify when in September but next month it seems to be.

 

Could he specify which September?

[rembrow]

I spoke to "the man" on the Bachmann stand at Railex NE on this very matter. His only advice was September. He wouldn't specify when in September but next month it seems to be. 

 

Many thanks. Did they say anything about the Mk1 POT mail stowage vans, which were showing as July/Aug delivery. Seems like there may be lean pickings again this year, from Bachmann. This is what my local model shop was fearing.

Could he specify which September?

 

No chance, they couldn't be that accurate.

[RBAGE]

Many thanks. Did they say anything about the Mk1 POT mail stowage vans, which were showing as July/Aug delivery. Seems like there may be lean pickings again this year, from Bachmann. This is what my local model shop was fearing.

 

No chance, they couldn't be that accurate.

Sorry, didn't ask about the POT.  

[RBAGE]

One thing that has occurred to me is the the matter of supply.

I have previously pre-ordered Bachmann items from one of the major "box shifters" and to be told at the time of release that, because of short supply from Bachmann, they cannot satisfy the full order.

When it comes to a rake of Covhop, for example, if they send me 6 instead of 9 that's disappointing but wouldn't necessarily look unprototypical.

However, these Freightliners "normally" ran in sets of 5 (3 inners and 2 outers).

Yes, formations did change and there will be a prototype for everything. That's why I've put "normally" in inverted commas. 

If Bachmann short supply and my order cannot be completely fulfilled, there's a possibility that I might end up with 9 inners and no outers. Or 6 outers and 2 inners.

Talking to the box shifter, he wouldn't order in a ration to satisfy what might be a "normal" formation because not everyone will want them in sets of 5.

 

Wise? Maybe. But with method of knowing what demand for each will be only means that the prospect of someone being supplied 3 inners and being told "sorry, we are short of outers" looms large. 

Being faced with this you could cancel the order and be completely disappointed.

 

Does anyone know what Bachmann's manufacturing plans are? Will this be a single production run or have they committed to further runs?

In which case, a short set might be completed in a year or two. No problem.

[rembrow]

One thing that has occurred to me is the the matter of supply.

I have previously pre-ordered Bachmann items from one of the major "box shifters" and to be told at the time of release that, because of short supply from Bachmann, they cannot satisfy the full order.

When it comes to a rake of Covhop, for example, if they send me 6 instead of 9 that's disappointing but wouldn't necessarily look unprototypical.

However, these Freightliners "normally" ran in sets of 5 (3 inners and 2 outers).

Yes, formations did change and there will be a prototype for everything. That's why I've put "normally" in inverted commas.

If Bachmann short supply and my order cannot be completely fulfilled, there's a possibility that I might end up with 9 inners and no outers. Or 6 outers and 2 inners.

Talking to the box shifter, he wouldn't order in a ration to satisfy what might be a "normal" formation because not everyone will want them in sets of 5.

 

Wise? Maybe. But with method of knowing what demand for each will be only means that the prospect of someone being supplied 3 inners and being told "sorry, we are short of outers" looms large.

Being faced with this you could cancel the order and be completely disappointed.

 

Does anyone know what Bachmann's manufacturing plans are? Will this be a single production run or have they committed to further runs?

In which case, a short set might be completed in a year or two. No problem.

Unfortunately I don't think anyone will know what future releases Bachmann have planned, but I think it's safe to say that they will have further versions in time, howrver Bachmann's second releases are likely to be 2-3 years after the initial release, based on my experience of other models. You may have to look around for other suppliers to top up your numbers if your retailer has his order cut. I'm in the same position as I have the last 3 inners ordered from my retailers incoming stock order.

[RBAGE]

Unfortunately I don't think anyone will know what future releases Bachmann have planned, but I think it's safe to say that they will have further versions in time, howrver Bachmann's second releases are likely to be 2-3 years after the initial release, based on my experience of other models. You may have to look around for other suppliers to top up your numbers if your retailer has his order cut. I'm in the same position as I have the last 3 inners ordered from my retailers incoming stock order.

That doesn't sound good. If your retailer has already committed all the stock he has ordered, it's safe to say others might be in the same boat. Looks like some customers might be facing disappointment. 

[Mark Saunders]

The formation of these untill they were two outers and three inners with the exeption being the sets of four for the Paris service via the train ferry!

 

Prior to withdrawl and replacement these were gradually reduced to twin sets with just the outers in traffic. Several of these twin sets were then converted with longitudinal timber baulks for conveying sleepers and track panels, recoded FDA.

 

After withdrawal a number of these twins were converted to single wagons with buffers and drawbar replacing the bar coupling.

 

Mark Saunders

[Titan]

 

Wise? Maybe. But with method of knowing what demand for each will be only means that the prospect of someone being supplied 3 inners and being told "sorry, we are short of outers" looms large. 

Being faced with this you could cancel the order and be completely disappointed.

 

Or alternatively you could add a buffer beam to an inner to make it an outer.

[russ p]

I know its not prototypical but I will be running 2x4 unless some evidence comes to light of three sets in the sixties

For some reason I thought they were in sets of four and built my storage sidings to that length

[adb968008]

Most likely it will be no different to coaches, where people buy a couple then seek out extras later, leaving 1st and Brakes on the shelves, 2nd /3rds become hard to find.

Edited August 19, 2018 by adb968008

[RBAGE]

Most likely it will be no different to coaches, where people buy a couple then seek out extras later, leaving 1st and Brakes on the shelves, 2nd /3rds become hard to find.

My thoughts exactly.

Outers will go very quickly and you'll have more inners than you know what to do with.

[Satan's Goldfish]

Right, time for me to panic pre-order all the outers I can find then

[RBAGE]

Right, time for me to panic pre-order all the outers I can find then

Could be a good investment.

[markw]

I know its not prototypical but I will be running 2x4 unless some evidence comes to light of three sets in the sixties

For some reason I thought they were in sets of four and built my storage sidings to that length

Early on the Holyhead trains were made up of 3 sets.

The 5 sets are more of a 70s thing, in the 60s not many outers had been built, so 1x8 would be more typical.