Chris Higgs Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Speaking to Andy yesterday, it would appear that several options are currently being investigated. One issue is that 2 types of buffet car were used in the set when in service and Dapol only makes 1 of the 2 variants. Another question is should it be released as a train pack or as a solo power car. From our discussion yesterday, it would seem that no final decision has been made yet but the aim at the moment is to get decorated samples ready for Ally Pally. As Andy says, Dapol want to get this one right because all profits are going to Project Miller so they want it to sell. Production HSTs ran with two different catering cars and Dapol don't produce those either, I think I could live with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Aye, http://www.traintesting.com/images/Swindon76pp.jpg Regards, Wild Boar Fell Nice. I bought a bunch of the NQP Mk3s with the intention of producing an early set - before BR added the 125 suffix to the Inter-City branding on the coaches. Looks like a pair of prototype HST power cars could go nicely with them. Is it clear whether this train had a 252 power car at the other end as well, or was it hybrid 252/253? Edited September 14, 2015 by Chris Higgs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 The issue with the roof vents on the prototypes and Mk3a TSO/FO and having a replacement roof has been covered before on the forum and was not going to be a runner. Not as an injection moulding I recall. But somehow think they could be done using 3d cad and then cast in resin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 The issue with the roof vents on the prototypes and Mk3a TSO/FO and having a replacement roof has been covered before on the forum and was not going to be a runner. Not as an injection moulding I recall. But somehow think they could be done using 3d cad and then cast in resin. I recall reading the earlier discussions. Obviously there would be a significant cost incurred in developing any new tooling, and producing the Prototype HST trailers using the existing HST trailer tools would definitely be the cheapest way of producing the whole train. The reason for my post was to highlight that the Prototype HST trailers are different; that the overall accuracy of the model would be higher if a new prototype Mk3 trailer were to be tooled; and that there might be opportunities to use the new tooling in other ways (such as producing the roof as a spare part etc) that would build a stronger business case for the additional investment. Obviously the catering vehicles open a further can of worms - neither of the prototype vehicles had exactly the same window layout as the production vehicles and they are different from the RFM which has already been produced. Personally I would prefer a fully accurate model, but I think this might blow out the costs excessively. A reasonable compromise might be a new intermediate trailer for the first and second class saloons, with the existing RFM for the catering vehicles. Whatever decisions are made, I wish Dapol and Project Miller team all the very best of luck with this model. The 3D prints of the power car look great, and I will certainly be ordering one - along with enough intermediate trailers to make up a representation of the complete 2+7 set. Cheers Tom 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) I added the APT-E tag because it was contemporary with the HST prototype and they shared test routes at times. Sorry if it seems a bit obscure. They even posed for a piccy together somewhere along the GW mainline.Swindon on at least one occasion. I wonder if we can persuade Rapido to shrink their APT-E? and of course they rubbed shoulders at Derby. Edited September 14, 2015 by Karhedron 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 There is a third type of buffet vehicle that the HST prototype ran with and isn't modelled by Dapol either - a Mk1 buffet with Mk3 bogies: http://www.traintesting.com/images/Test%20run%20-%20early%20days.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Speaking to Andy yesterday, it would appear that several options are currently being investigated. One issue is that 2 types of buffet car were used in the set when in service and Dapol only makes 1 of the 2 variants. Another question is should it be released as a train pack or as a solo power car. From our discussion yesterday, it would seem that no final decision has been made yet but the aim at the moment is to get decorated samples ready for Ally Pally. The question of how to retail it is a tricky one. Obviously I think a single power car should be offered as this is exactly what Project Miller is restoring. It allows modelers to represent a single power car on test along with any RTC stock they may wish to use. It also allows modelers to create the present-day preservation scene such as this. Having a dummy power car for 41002 would be nice and they could be sold as a pair as it was not uncommon to see the two power cars on test coupled back-to-back. This will probably appeal to lots of modellers of the 70s scene who would like to represent an interesting test train without too much expenditure. The really tricky question is prototype Mk3 coaches. I doubt it would financially viable for Dapol to tool up new coaches just to go with this and I suspect we will have to settle for production Mk3s painted to represent the prototype vehicles. Would this be acceptable for the majority of modelers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted September 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 14, 2015 Hi all, As well as the flush windows weren't the doors on the prototype rake slightly different to the production Mk3 coaches? In terms of the "best compromise" I did wonder whether the Farish printed Mk3 bodyshells would be a better fit for this particular model, even if they don't have close coupling and feature a strange clip-on buffers/steps component. cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty.J Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) Hi Karhedron,It is being released as a bookset. See the MREmag page. http://www.mremag.com/index.php/news/325-tings2015 Edited September 14, 2015 by Rusty.J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 The earlier post I was replying to indicated that this decision was not yet finalised so I was mulling over different options that made sense. Looks like different people came away from TINGS with slightly different impressions of what was intended. No doubt, the truth is out there somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted September 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 14, 2015 If they dont do it as a book set then Electra Graphics on a Farish mk3 body might be a solution (Adam - hope you see this). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Adam1701D Posted September 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 14, 2015 If they dont do it as a book set then Electra Graphics on a Farish mk3 body might be a solution (Adam - hope you see this). Funnily enough I have the Prototype HST Mk3s (and Mk1 buffet) drawn up and awaiting the appearance of suitable power cars. Whilst the Dapol RTR Mk3s look great, the raised window surrounds and moulded door lights might jar for some. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) Swindon on at least one occasion. I wonder if we can persuade Rapido to shrink their APT-E? Happy days, I saw the prototype HST myself at Swindon sitting on that bench on the left - and arriving there on the DMU from Cheltenham. I even sneaked down onto the line at the platform end and got it to run over a 2p piece. Edited September 14, 2015 by Chris Higgs 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted September 14, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 14, 2015 I remember the prototype HST being tested on the ECML around Berwick. Great news that an N gauge model is being produced, really hoping we will get a OO version too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47164 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 As an 00 gauge modeller very envious, hopefully for you n gauge chaps Dapol will see sense and do runs of existing mk3,s in the reverse blue/grey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Have to say, this is very tempting and I wouldn't be particularly fussed if they are released with production mk3s painted as the prototypes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf27 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Hi all, As well as the flush windows weren't the doors on the prototype rake slightly different to the production Mk3 coaches? In terms of the "best compromise" I did wonder whether the Farish printed Mk3 bodyshells would be a better fit for this particular model, even if they don't have close coupling and feature a strange clip-on buffers/steps component. cheers Ben A. Yes Ben, the doors are different, as are the underframe modules, the roof vents as previously discussed, also the water tank panels in the roof are different and the vehicle ends. They had buffers as well. Quite a different coach altogether when you consider the details. As of this moment in time there are no plans for a 4mm scale version but the law of sod will dictate that it may change when I have finished mine. Cheers Shane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJennings Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 I note from the Dapol stand at the Diesel and Electric show over the weekend that the accompanying description for the engineering prototype said "2 power cars, 8 saloons and 2 buffet cars to form a collectors set" ... Only spotted it when going through my photos so clearly wasn't that observant on the day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 As long as it is 'one' collectors set and it has the right/same livery across the whole set. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris89 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Here we go Click for bigger. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) 8 saloons and 2 buffet cars My memories of class 252 are a bit hazy these days, but surely it didn't have 10 coaches? Not sure if it was 6 saloons + 2 buffets, or 5+2. Chris Edited February 22, 2016 by Chris Higgs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf27 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 S2900011 by Shane Wilton, on Flickr cheers Shane 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf27 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) My memories of class 252 are a bit hazy these days, but surely it didn't have 10 coaches? Not sure if it was 6 saloons + 2 buffets, or 5+2. Chris 10 saloons were built, not all ran in the set at the same time. The longest formation I have seen is 2+8. cheers Shane Edited February 22, 2016 by Wolf27 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 My memories of class 252 are a bit hazy these days, but surely it didn't have 10 coaches? Not sure if it was 6 saloons + 2 buffets, or 5+2. Chris There were 10 coachs in total 10000, 10100, 11000-11003 and 12000-12003. 11001/12002 were converted for the 1977 royal train (2903/2904) and there remainered were renumbered into the 4xxxxx high speed trailer series. However I don't know the dates of them being renumbered - presuamably before the production stock was deleived from 1976. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted February 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2016 Hello all, From the photo it seems that is the same 3D print they had at TINGS. Very nice but now I am looking forward to seeing the actual injection moulded body. As to the coaches, it would make sense to offer a prototypical rake rather wouldn't it? cheers Ben A. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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