Hornby announce the SR Cattle wagon

[Dunsignalling]

After seeing this forthcoming release from Bachmann's Thomas the Tank HO range, nothing surprises me these days...

The separation between the two colours is an impressively crisp piece of Tampo printing, though.

[Taz]

....

Now that Bachmann have the excellent GW/ BR standard model in their range.....

As it has an inaccurate, too long body I don't think excellent is quite the right adjective to use about these wagons.

[Garethp8873]

As it has an inaccurate, too long body I don't think excellent is quite the right adjective to use about these wagons.

 

Ah well... in the meantime my kitbuilt examples can represent the GWR and LMS cattle wagons. The Airfix kit can make a good looking GWR W8 cattle wagon and can also can make a good looking Fruit Mex as well...

[Garethp8873]

Has anyone yet started to regress their BR Maunsell Cattle Wagons into SR livery at all? If so is it easy to remove their current transfers? Reason being my two Maunsell examples shall soon be making the journey down South to repainted into SR livery and I want to give my friend a heads up.

 

One intended livery is that of last built SR Maunsell Cattle wagon 53928 on P.168 of Southern Wagons Pictorial. I need at least one of the two in post-36 livery in my opinion.

[autocoach]

Does anyone have any idea on a paint that closely matches the SR Dark Brown used on the SR version of the Bulleid wagons.  I was able to obtain some Humbrol #10 acrylic " service brown here in the states, but it turned out to be a horrible glossy goop made in China.  It does not match the wagon color at all In tests it goes on thick when brushing, would clog the airbrush and cannot be dulled to a matte color no matter what I use including the standard Testors Dull Coat or professional artists matte medium. It also appears to be way too dark as I wish the colour of vans and wagons on my layout to appear flattened and lightened by many years of neglect and exposure to rain and sun. It is the post-war austerity period on my layout and in my version of Cornwall trains only operate on bright sunny dry days. The SR version of the Bulleid wagons were fairly new in the summer of 1947.

 

I have two of the Bulleid Cattle Wagons and want the  matching colour to paint some Cambrian LSWR Diagram 1410 10 ton van kits I just acquired.  I also need transfers (not decals) for the small post 1935 SR. I have used up all the small SR's on my last HMRS SR Wagons sheet building kits and updating wagons to 1947 condition.

 

I am investigating Tamiya's XF 84 Dark Iron colour. Getting hold of it will have to wait another 10 days for my Local Hobby Shop to get it from their Tamiya supplier. I have not been able to get a sample of anything actually painted with this colour. The Tamiya website sample colours vary widely from actual colors of their paint I have on hand.

[trevor7598]

As it has an inaccurate, too long body I don't think excellent is quite the right adjective to use about these wagons.

Could you be more specific, ie by how many thou., mm etc is it too long ?.

To my eye the Bachmann GW / BR standard cattle wagon certainly looks the part

The detail is also pretty accurate. What is more I will use the word excellent again !.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Could you be more specific, ie by how many thou., mm etc is it too long ?.

To my eye the Bachmann GW / BR standard cattle wagon certainly looks the part

The detail is also pretty accurate. What is more I will use the word excellent again !.

It is 157.4798thou or 4mm (approximately 5.4%) too long. The BR diagram shows 18'6" over headstocks and the Bachmann version scales off at 19'6". 

[trevor7598]

It is 157.4798thou or 4mm (approximately 5.4%) too long. The BR diagram shows 18'6" over headstocks and the Bachmann version scales off at 19'6". 

 

Many thanks for that. An unfortunate error by Bachmann. But they still look good to my eye.

The fact that the prototype wagons are longer than most Box vans helps to disguise the mistake,

when running together.

How do these things happen in this day and age ?.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Many thanks for that. An unfortunate error by Bachmann. But they still look good to my eye.

The fact that the prototype wagons are longer than most Box vans helps to disguise the mistake,

when running together.

How do these things happen in this day and age ?.

What beats me is that Bachmann got the wheelbase and end profile more or less correct but failed with the overall length.

Airfix managed to get the length right on their kit around 60 years ago.

[Dunsignalling]

What beats me is that Bachmann got the wheelbase and end profile more or less correct but failed with the overall length.

Airfix managed to get the length right on their kit around 60 years ago.

It sounds to me like the sort of error that can arise from CAD and the quick transition from design to tooling that CAD facilitates leaves a relatively narrow window of opportunity to spot problems. It seems this one probably just slipped through.

 

I confess that I will willingly put up with these wagons until something better comes along because they "look the part" - if the correct length coincided with common goods vans, the mistake would be much more noticeable. They certainly resemble their prototype better than the ex-Mainline LMS type also made by Bachmann or the multi-error LNER one from Oxford Rail.

 

John

Edited December 7, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[MartinTrucks]

Does anyone have any idea on a paint that closely matches the SR Dark Brown used on the SR version of the Bulleid wagons.  I was able to obtain some Humbrol #10 acrylic " service brown here in the states, but it turned out to be a horrible glossy goop made in China.  It does not match the wagon color at all In tests it goes on thick when brushing, would clog the airbrush and cannot be dulled to a matte color no matter what I use including the standard Testors Dull Coat or professional artists matte medium. It also appears to be way too dark as I wish the colour of vans and wagons on my layout to appear flattened and lightened by many years of neglect and exposure to rain and sun. It is the post-war austerity period on my layout and in my version of Cornwall trains only operate on bright sunny dry days. The SR version of the Bulleid wagons were fairly new in the summer of 1947.

 

I have two of the Bulleid Cattle Wagons and want the  matching colour to paint some Cambrian LSWR Diagram 1410 10 ton van kits I just acquired.  I also need transfers (not decals) for the small post 1935 SR. I have used up all the small SR's on my last HMRS SR Wagons sheet building kits and updating wagons to 1947 condition.

 

I am investigating Tamiya's XF 84 Dark Iron colour. Getting hold of it will have to wait another 10 days for my Local Hobby Shop to get it from their Tamiya supplier. I have not been able to get a sample of anything actually painted with this colour. The Tamiya website sample colours vary widely from actual colors of their paint I have on hand.

 

Have a look at Tru-color #11 Boxcar Brown. I cannot tell whether it is a close match from this side of the pond. The SR colour is a very dark brown with no hint of red in it (I know that sounds daft, as brown is made from red and black!). In 12" : 1 foot scale we use a colour named bitter chocolate as a close approximation. 30004 has faded a bit from new condition:

 

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/wagon/30004.html

 

Not sure what you mean regarding transfers. Waterslide decals are available from either Fox Transfers or Modelmaster Decals. Pressfix or (perhaps) methfix (methylated spirit solution required) versions are produced by the HMRS (Historical Model Railway Society) and are available from model shops.

 

Hope this helps a little.

[autocoach]

Have a look at Tru-color #11 Boxcar Brown. I cannot tell whether it is a close match from this side of the pond. The SR colour is a very dark brown with no hint of red in it (I know that sounds daft, as brown is made from red and black!). In 12" : 1 foot scale we use a colour named bitter chocolate as a close approximation. 30004 has faded a bit from new condition:

 

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/wagon/30004.html

 

Not sure what you mean regarding transfers. Waterslide decals are available from either Fox Transfers or Modelmaster Decals. Pressfix or (perhaps) methfix (methylated spirit solution required) versions are produced by the HMRS (Historical Model Railway Society) and are available from model shops.

 

Hope this helps a little.

Martin

 

There is always some linguistic confusion between the opposite shores of the Atlantic. Transfers to a North American modeler are often called "dry transfers" and mean the Pressfix type of numbering and lettering sold by HMRS. Waterslide decals to North Americans are just called decals. It is assumed that they will be dipped in water to free and slide the printed film from the backing.  I usually try to distinguish NA/Brit terminolgy on this forum but must have missed in this case. In any case I am out of my pressfix small SR's on the HMRS SR Goods wagon sheets I have. I will probably have to order the Modelmaster Decals SR Goods sheets as they have a large number of small SR's. 

 

True-color #11 Boxcar Brown would be more suited for BR Oxide Brown. Unfortunately I used to use Floquil Polly S Roof Brown for SR brown but that was eliminated when Testors bought and discontinued the Polly S line. The color was not moved over to their current Modelmaster lines. I bought and expensive bottle of True Color Roof Brown and it was no match. 

 

So I have been playing with paints I have on hand.  The goal has been to create a close match to the dark brown on the new Hornby SR Bulleid Cattle wagons. It does not have to be exact as in 1947 the Bulleid wagons were new and the LSWR 1410 wagons up to 50 years old. I am assuming that my LSWR 1410 wagon models were repainted between 1935 and 1939 so would be quite oxidized and lightened by 1947 with minimum maintenance during the war. 

 

I have been testing various paint swatches on scraps of plastikard (see I use the UK term not sheet plastic as in NA) and have attached a photo of the results. 

 

 

The Hornby Cattle wagon on the left with what I hope is a fairly accurate rendition of newly painted SR brown.  Note that it is a very flat rich dark brown with little hint of red/orange..

 

The first test panel to the right of the wagon was painted with artists acrylics of which I keep a good supply for scenic and occasional other uses.  The top sample on the panel is what I think I will be going to use. It is 90% burnt umber and 10% raw umber to darken it a bit. The colour below it is 100% raw umber. I have added artists acrylic matte medium and a few drops of acrylic flow aid to enable brushing.

 

The second test panel is included for reference. It is the Humbrol #10 Service Brown. I diluted it with artists acrylic matte medium and a few drops of acrylic flow aid to enable brushing. I also sprayed it with Testors Dull-cote to flatten it. It is very orange/red in comparison to the first test panel. 

 

Anyway that is where the research stands at the moment .  I am holding off painting until I receive a small bottle of Tamiya #84 Dark Iron so that I will not have to spend a lot of time mixing and adding stuff for spray painting if that colour turns out to be the best solution. 

 

Now I wonder what people who are repainting Hornby BR Maunsell cattle wagons into SR brown are using. Hopefully not the Humbrol colour.

Edited December 8, 2016 by autocoach

[Wickham Green]

Martin

 

There is always some linguistic confusion between the opposite shores of the Atlantic. Transfers to a North American modeler are often called "dry transfers" and mean the Pressfix type of numbering and lettering sold by HMRS. Waterslide decals to North Americans are just called decals. It is assumed that they will be dipped in water to free and slide the printed film from the backing.  I usually try to distinguish NA/Brit terminolgy on this forum but must have missed in this case. In any case I am out of my pressfix small SR's on the HMRS SR Goods wagon sheets I have. I will probably have to order the Modelmaster Decals SR Goods sheets as they have a large number of small SR's. 

 

True-color #11 Boxcar Brown would be more suited for BR Oxide Brown. Unfortunately I used to use Floquil Polly S Roof Brown for SR brown but that was eliminated when Testors bought and discontinued the Polly S line. The color was not moved over to their current Modelmaster lines. I bought and expensive bottle of True Color Roof Brown and it was no match. 

 

So I have been playing with paints I have on hand.  The goal has been to create a close match to the dark brown on the new Hornby SR Bulleid Cattle wagons. It does not have to be exact as in 1947 the Bulleid wagons were new and the LSWR 1410 wagons up to 50 years old. I am assuming that my LSWR 1410 wagon models were repainted between 1935 and 1939 so would be quite oxidized and lightened by 1947 with minimum maintenance during the war. 

 

I have been testing various paint swatches on scraps of plastikard (see I use the UK term not sheet plastic as in NA) and have attached a photo of the results. 

 

color matches to Hornby cattle wagon.jpg

 

The Hornby Cattle wagon on the left with what I hope is a fairly accurate rendition of newly painted SR brown.  Note that it is a very flat rich dark brown with little hint of red/orange..

 

The first test panel to the right of the wagon was painted with artists acrylics of which I keep a good supply for scenic and occasional other uses.  The top sample on the panel is what I think I will be going to use. It is 90% burnt umber and 10% raw umber to darken it a bit. The colour below it is 100% raw umber. I have added artists acrylic matte medium and a few drops of acrylic flow aid to enable brushing.

 

The second test panel is included for reference. It is the Humbrol #10 Service Brown. I diluted it with artists acrylic matte medium and a few drops of acrylic flow aid to enable brushing. I also sprayed it with Testors Dull-cote to flatten it. It is very orange/red in comparison to the first test panel. 

 

Anyway that is where the research stands at the moment .  I am holding off painting until I receive a small bottle of Tamiya #84 Dark Iron so that I will not have to spend a lot of time mixing and adding stuff for spray painting if that colour turns out to be the best solution. 

 

Now I wonder what people who are repainting Hornby BR Maunsell cattle wagons into SR brown are using. Hopefully not the Humbrol colour.

Presumably you have no access to Precision Paints your side of the pond ............. some of their colours I wouldn't touch with the proverbial barge pole but S.R. / L.S.W,R. Goods Brown ain't far off the colour Hornby have used here.

[Robin Brasher]

Presumably you have no access to Precision Paints your side of the pond ............. some of their colours I wouldn't touch with the proverbial barge pole but S.R. / L.S.W,R. Goods Brown ain't far off the colour Hornby have used here.

I am having a job getting Precision Paints this side of the pond but I am still using a jar of SR/LSWR goods brown that I bought some time ago. Do Railmatch supply SR goods brown?

[31A]

I am having a job getting Precision Paints this side of the pond but I am still using a jar of SR/LSWR goods brown that I bought some time ago. Do Railmatch supply SR goods brown?

 

 

Yes:

 

https://www.howesmodels.co.uk/product/SR%20Goods%20Stock%20Brown%20(15ml%20enamel)

[autocoach]

Being obsessed with the issue of SR Goods Brown at the moment, and confined to acrylics due to health reasons, I just ordered a bunch of Vallejo browns to try out. If none work, it is no great loss as I am shifting to Vallejo and Tamiya for most of my UK project painting needs.  The Vallejo paints will go into the pool for figure painting.  Unfortunately my local hobby shop where I try to focus most of my purchasing does not carry Vallejo as it is more of a military modeler product and like their name the store is "Just Trains".

 

Specific Southern Pacific colors come from small local California manufacturer PBL Star Brand (Located 10 miles up a mountain road from Ukiah on the northwestern part of the state.)  Star Brand is acetone based and I tolerate the one exception to my acrylic only rule.  It  requires spraying for all applications which means I have to empty the garage and set up my air brush on a mild temperature day.

Edited December 8, 2016 by autocoach

[57xx]

Presumably you have no access to Precision Paints your side of the pond ............. some of their colours I wouldn't touch with the proverbial barge pole but S.R. / L.S.W,R. Goods Brown ain't far off the colour Hornby have used here.

 

The pic I posted earlier in this thread used the Precision SR brown. Photography and screen rendering differences aside, it looks more red and less chocolatey than the Hornby rendition. I've no idea which is more accurate.

[AJ'S]

The Rail match SR brown is a good match. Please can you let me know if you find a match in the Vallejo as I would like to use them. I have used their Air range of airbrush paint and find them excellent.

[autocoach]

The Rail match SR brown is a good match. Please can you let me know if you find a match in the Vallejo as I would like to use them. I have used their Air range of airbrush paint and find them excellent.

Please see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/117690-cambrian-lswr-diagram-1410-or-140x-goods-vans/. I am moving my discussion over to Kit and Scratchbuilding which is where it now belongs. Yes, I think I have found an answer in the Vallejo range. You will be surprised at the name of the color.

[toboldlygo]

Had my two Bulleid ones arrive yesterday (direct from Hornby). Extremely impressed with them.

[45568]

BR Bauxite Bulleid cattle wagon!

Something useful done on the first day of holidays!

Modelmaster transfers used.

Looking at this and the Maunsell vans, there are many differences, some subtle, others like the brake gear totally different between the types. Hornby have done a splendid job witjh these.

Seasons greetings from Oz,

Peter C.

Edited December 23, 2016 by 45568

[Garethp8873]

BR Bauxite Bulleid cattle wagon!

Something useful done on the first day of holidays!

2013-04-04 SR Cattle 001 (800x600).jpg

2013-04-04 SR Cattle 002 (800x600).jpg

2013-04-04 SR Cattle 003 (800x600).jpg

Modelmaster transfers used.

Looking at this and the Maunsell vans, there are many differences, some subtle, others like the brake gear totally different between the types. Hornby have done a splendid job witjh these.

Seasons greetings from Oz,

Peter C.

 

A beautiful job Peter. As I've previously stated, mine will be going into SR liveries. How easy was it to remove the current lettering from the wagons?

 

[45568]

Gareth,

            Lettering came off very easily by scraping gently with the edge of a scalpel blade. It is not thickly applied. Probably would also work with 'TCut' or Brasso on a cotton bud.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[cctransuk]

BR Bauxite Bulleid cattle wagon!

Something useful done on the first day of holidays!

2013-04-04 SR Cattle 001 (800x600).jpg

2013-04-04 SR Cattle 002 (800x600).jpg

2013-04-04 SR Cattle 003 (800x600).jpg

Modelmaster transfers used.

Looking at this and the Maunsell vans, there are many differences, some subtle, others like the brake gear totally different between the types. Hornby have done a splendid job witjh these.

Seasons greetings from Oz,

Peter C.

 

Nice model - I'm just a little surprised at the CATTLE marking.

 

Can you point me at a photo of the prototype carrying that marking?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[45568]

Nice model - I'm just a little surprised at the CATTLE marking.

 

Can you point me at a photo of the prototype carrying that marking?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Hello John,

                  Unfortunately I can't!! I am probably being guided by the BR diagram books which describe the BR standard vans as 'branded CATTLE' ... perhaps Jim at MM is being similarly led astray.

 Having said that, I am a sucker for the sometimes arcane wagon brandings in that authoritative Gill Sans lettering, and perhaps sometimes my enthusiasm for them overwhelms my scientific background of looking for the evidence!

 The cattle brandings do cut up nicely for 'ALE' though!

 On a more personal note, thank you for your excellent service this year, all the very best for the festive season and New Year to you and yours, look forward to your new products in 2017.

From Oz,

Peter C.