Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge Mk3 coaches

[MJI]

This is why if the colours are wrong on a model I tend to believe the paint makers

[scottrains29]

Perhaps Oxford could re-run the vote. Nobody voted for something that is clearly worse than before! I'm looking forward to the Virgin coaches but not in some strange shade that only Oxford think is correct. Perhaps this is why it's taken so long to get licence approval from Virgin.

 

As these Virgin mk3s are likely to be run with Hornby locos (class 86,87,90, DVT) and most of us are quite happy with the Hornby Virgin colours, it would make sense for Oxford to colour match with Hornby.

 

On the subject of Virgin mk3s, I'd like to remind Oxford that Virgin loco hauled coaches didn't have silver Windows, Virgin HST coaches did. This is something Hornby failed to grasp in the last 18 years!

[JDW]

You all know my views on Oxford's choice of paint.

 

Unfortunately, nothing's going to change from them, and as Bob has said, we probably need to move on.........however, just before we do, I'd like to throw this into the mix.

 

I was fortunate enough to be in on the restoration of 47 712 'Lady Diana Spencer' at Crewe, as a volunteer in the group. When the time came to order the ScotRall paint, the owners chose a company called T & R Williamsons, who were est in 1775 believe it or not. Over the years they have supplied BR amongst other companies, and are still supplying the Railways today with specialist paints.

 

The owners approached Williamsons for an order to repaint Lady Di and were suitably advised by Williamsons as to what paint should be used and indeed was used 30 years ago. When it arrived, we had a little session on comparing the Williamson paint (made from BR specs) with LIma's, Hornby's and Bachmann's choice of colours on their ScotRail liveried stock, along with a small tin of Railmatch paint and also a tin of Precision's.

Lo and behold, they all matched up very, very closely with T & R Williamsons paint ( and each other I may add ) - The Exec Dark Grey was spot on and more importantly to this thread, the Executive Light Grey was also spot on.

 

This all leads to the following conclusion: Whoever Oxford Rail has approached about the 'BR Specs' for its ScotRail Greys, has got it completely wrong, as theirs is the ONLY colour versionss that are nowhere near the T & R Willamson Greys, or Bachmanns or Hornbys etc etc.

Therefore the argument from the Oxford rep that we all voted for a match to the real thing and they are right, is blown out of the water, because of the previous statement. ( We only voted for a match to the real thing because we knew Bachmann, Precision et al had already been getting it right for years, so believed that Oxford would do the same )

 

Do they REALLY believe that all those major manufacturers got it wrong, anf they're the only ones to get it right? Yeah, like I'm the only sane person on the World and everyone else is mad!

 

They must have a completely un-swerving faith in their research to be so completely blindsided by the fact that they are, sadly.......... wrong.

 

I also spke to the Oxford Rep at Warley and informed him of what I have written here - I also got the response that " You al voted for the correct livery, so that's what we've done " Talk about the Emperor believing that he's wearing a wonderful and lovely new suit.

 

They're refusing to listen to advice and also what is right in front of their noses, so they can sadly only blame themselves now if their sales are affected.

 

cheers

 

Andy

 

See here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/140166-conspiracy-theory-bampots-this-one-is-a-doozy/   *

 

Apologies if it's already been asked but just who did they go to for the paint specs, does anyone know?!

 

 

 

*(To save everyone else wasting a few hours of their lives, its another one of those conspiracy theories where everyone else is wrong because he has "proven" than they cannot be right, his theories explain how Titanic sank, how man cannot get to the moon, and so on, and everyone who disagrees is part of the conspiracy)

[Bob Reid]

Now in stock - the B&G TSO's.....

 

https://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/collections/new-in?constraint=oxford-rail

[tractor_37260]

Now in stock - the B&G TSO's.....

 

https://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/collections/new-in?constraint=oxford-rail

 

Dare I look ! after the big colour debacle and the Yellow Stripe on the B/Grey FO - surely the TSO's will be right...................

[ThaneofFife]

See here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/140166-conspiracy-theory-bampots-this-one-is-a-doozy/    *

 

Apologies if it's already been asked but just who did they go to for the paint specs, does anyone know?!

 

 

 

*(To save everyone else wasting a few hours of their lives, its another one of those conspiracy theories where everyone else is wrong because he has "proven" than they cannot be right, his theories explain how Titanic sank, how man cannot get to the moon, and so on, and everyone who disagrees is part of the conspiracy)

 

despite the numerous posters here calling for the thread to be moved on from the livery issue (myself included) more than happy to join in with the backtracking and go along with the majority if folk simply cant leave this debate alone so in response to the question - god only knows who they asked.   I am sure Oxford will soon see they are wrong when the sales figures begin to come in.  Got visions of somebody at OR sat in a room fingers in ears going "I cant hear you".

Edited December 12, 2018 by ThaneofFife

[GordonC]

despite the numerous posters here calling for the thread to be moved on from the livery issue (myself included) more than happy to join in with the backtracking and go along with the majority if folk simply cant leave this debate alone so in response to the question - god only knows who they asked.   I am sure Oxford will soon see they are wrong when the sales figures begin to come in.  Got visions of somebody at OR sat in a room fingers in ears going "I cant hear you".

 

even if they look at sales figures what conclusions do you think they'll come to? 'oh Scotrail cant be popular' rather than 'do you think those dodgy colours we used could have had an effect'?

 

and what would they compare them with? the Intercity ones which have used similar colours?

[tractor_37260]

even if they look at sales figures what conclusions do you think they'll come to? 'oh Scotrail cant be popular' rather than 'do you think those dodgy colours we used could have had an effect'?

 

and what would they compare them with? the Intercity ones which have used similar colours?

 

Ox Rail purchased a Bachmann  L/E ScotRail 47/7 Waverley at Mod Rail Glasgow back in Feb - presumably to compare the colours....what more did they need !! 

[young37215]

Now in stock - the B&G TSO's.....

 

https://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/collections/new-in?constraint=oxford-rail

 

Hattons are showing B&G TSO's in stock this morning.

[tractor_37260]

Well my B/Grey TSO's arrived today, thankfully they appear to be OK and all foot steps are present, just need to get them renumbered now with some SC number sets

[black and decker boy]

With regards to the accuracy of Railmatch, I have a feeling (could be wrong though) they are actually produced by HMG Paints Ltd in Manchester who actually supplied BR/The Rail Industry?

 

Cheers

 

Simon

No need to have a feeling, they are produced by HMG and it is written on the labels as such. HMG also did supply at 1:1 scale.

[D400]

No need to have a feeling, they are produced by HMG and it is written on the labels as such. HMG also did supply at 1:1 scale.

 

And still do. I also have a feeling they may recently have started making the Humbrol range too. 

 

Bruce

[tractor_37260]

Trial fitted an ESU DCC LED lighting strip to one of my MK3A B/Grey TSO's - it's a bit short as supplied, but it can be cut and extended with wires to give lights in the vestibule ? ends. The brightness is adjustable, it's at full brightness in the photos below - I'll also be adding a small SA Cap, looks promising so far..... 

 

[tractor_37260]

Wired up the bogie pick-ups today and was considering where best to cut the strip to get the best spread of light - ARGH -  the strip stopped working before I even got it cut or fitted ..**********   hopefully in will be replaced FOC.  The SA cap will fit nicely in the toilet - on top of the john 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2018 by tractor_37260

[BigAndy]

I'm genuinely pleased that the B/G paints from OR seem to be close enough. It's odd how they've managed to get that so very nearly there, yet the Inter-City/Swalow is miles out.............

 

As I've mentioned in this thread previously, I do know exactly who has been 'assisting' Oxford Rail with their paint schemes..........I'm not witholding any names just for the sake of it, I just don't want a massive backlash - I quite like my hobby without having to worry about who I'm speaking to or what subject I'm talking to someone about. Safe to say, there was a reliable witness in the shape of my modelling buddy, who was also present, when the individual concerned informed us that it was he who had provided OR with all the relevant paint information..........

On the flip side of all this, I can look forward to buying some fairly cheap OR Mk3a's in the future, so I can butcher them around and then respray them into the correct shades of Executive or ScotRail livery.........it would have just saved me an awful lot of time had they got them right in the first place.

 

cheers

 

Andy

 

PS I recently received my two Bachy ScotRail DBSO's........very nice they are too and not surprisingly match up exactly to my OR MK3a I've resprayed using Precision Exec Dark and Light Greys. Incidentally, in an arttempt at impartiality, a couple of noteable modellers of the water boiling device variety were asked by myself to compare the out of the box Bachy DBSO, my resprayed MK3a and an out of the box OR Mk3a in Inter-City livery.

Neither knew of the current 'upset' between OR and the modelling fraternity, but BOTH quite categorically stated that the out of the box OR 3a, was quote " Miles away" in matching the other two.....

[Bob Reid]

They came close enough with the colours for the B&G stock, where they got the details of the lining heights may remain as big a mystery.... 

[66738]

They came close enough with the colours for the B&G stock, where they got the details of the lining heights may remain as big a mystery....

I must have missed this somewhere in the thread. Could you explain a bit more in depth please Bob?

Cheers

66738

[BR(S)]

I must have missed this somewhere in the thread. Could you explain a bit more in depth please Bob?

Cheers

66738

See this posting: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107460-oxford-rail-announces-oo-gauge-mk3-coaches/?p=3385465

[66738]

See this posting: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107460-oxford-rail-announces-oo-gauge-mk3-coaches/?p=3385465

Thanks BR(S). Sorry is it just the 1st class Yellow band that is an issue?

Was thinking Bob had spotted an issue about the Blue/Grey/White height to windows/Doors. Is the TSO correct?

66738

[Bob Reid]

No, the RUB, TSO and FO all have the top white line too low - the bottom white line is correct for a loco-hauled Mk3a however the top line is at the (lower) height of an HST Mk3 - the net effect is that there is insufficient Rail Grey above the bodylights and the classification band as a result is too wide but rather more noticeable on the Red (RUB) and Yellow (FO) versions.
 
This fine shot from Robert Carroll's collection shows how they should look;
M10015_DerbyWorks by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

And OR's interpretation....

Edited December 19, 2018 by Bob Reid

[Bob Reid]

Everything looks right apart from the roof/side colour line. If you look at the 1:1 picture, the roof is painted black to the top of the rain strips above the doors (early Mk3 did not have them). On the OR model it is higher.

 

The blue is too high and thats the first thing I will remedy when I get my hands on them.

 

 

Which is exactly what I said in my previous posting http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107460-oxford-rail-announces-oo-gauge-mk3-coaches/?p=3385465 however there's no getting away from the point that even if you reduce the height of the blue / colour band down to the top of the door / gutter strip it's still too wide by a country mile (OK slight exaggeration there) - the white lining band is still marginally low reducing the height of the grey above the bodylights.  It could be something as simple as the white lining being placed over the grey panel edge and not the blue that's caused it but if your happy with it as it stands it's your choice.  If it helps anyone understand the issue I'll put real numbers around it later.

 

p.s. I've a photo of Mk3a where the Litchurch Lane painters continue the upper Rail Blue Band (but not the red / yellow classification band) above the top of the door / gutter strip up to the weld line on the roof panel - see my photo here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107460-oxford-rail-announces-oo-gauge-mk3-coaches/?p=3050007

Edited December 20, 2018 by Bob Reid

[tractor_37260]

Everything looks right apart from the roof/side colour line. If you look at the 1:1 picture, the roof is painted black to the top of the rain strips above the doors (early Mk3 did not have them). On the OR model it is higher.

 

The blue is too high and thats the first thing I will remedy when I get my hands on them.

 

 

Everything looks right apart from the roof/side colour line. If you look at the 1:1 picture, the roof is painted black to the top of the rain strips above the doors (early Mk3 did not have them). On the OR model it is higher.

 

The blue is too high and thats the first thing I will remedy when I get my hands on them.

 

I don't have a B/Grey RUB but if you look closely at your model/photo, there's a faint line that runs across the Blue in-line with the door rain strips, it would appear OR altered the height of the Blue band,(made it higher) hence there's Blue between the Red and the Black roof.   The top Blue bands on B/Grey TSO's have the same issue.

Edited December 20, 2018 by tractor_37260

[Bob Reid]

I don't have a B/Grey RUB but if you look closely at your model/photo, there's a faint line that runs across the Blue in-line with the door rain strips, it would appear OR altered the height of the Blue band,(made it higher) hence there's Blue between the Red and the Black roof.   The top Blue bands on B/Grey TSO's have the same issue.

 

 

They did that for the RUB only - if you look close between the blue band and the black on the roof, there's a ragged edge where they appear to have added more blue on as an afterthought - it doesn't have the normal crisp edge produced by the tampo? printing so may well have been a bit of hand rectification.  I suspect that was done to reduce the height of the red band - something they didn't do on the FO but left it even wider.  

[young37215]

Comparing the Bachmann M2f with the OR Mk3, the inaccuracy of the grey band is clearly evident on the TSO and even more with the FO. I guess the phrase ‘you get what you pay for ‘ is valid here. OR have produced a Hornby Railroad type of product at a similar price point. Despite the shortcomings I am pleased with the coaches which create the impact I seek.

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by young37215

[Andrew F]

  The mk3's grey band never matched the mk2's in real life. The mk2f's band goes quite a bit higher and quite a bit lower than the mk3a's so I'd say they both go together pretty well and the liveries match well enough.

 

  I can see the later extension of the the top blue band that Bob Reid was on about. All I'd do is smooth that paint join out, mask and repaint the rooves; you'd want to weather them anyway as both the OR and Bachmann coaches look plasticky.