Tiddles47 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 I've just tried running my B&G FO with the new DBSO and I must say I'm a little miffed. With normal NEM pockets being used, I first propelled them and they didn't last long before derailing the Mk3 effectively pushing the DBSO off the rails. However when being pulled despite both hooks over the bars they still separated. This was an experiment as i took all the Bachmann solid bar couplings off my MK2a's and replaced them with NEM's for more flexibility and so to see how the Mk3 would perform.. looks like i'll have to use the solid bars for them when the ScR 1's eventually come out...Ii'll be having words with OR at Warley on Saturday about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waverley47708 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 I've just tried running my B&G FO with the new DBSO and I must say I'm a little miffed. With normal NEM pockets being used, I first propelled them and they didn't last long before derailing the Mk3 effectively pushing the DBSO off the rails. However when being pulled despite both hooks over the bars they still separated. This was an experiment as i took all the Bachmann solid bar couplings off my MK2a's and replaced them with NEM's for more flexibility and so to see how the Mk3 would perform.. looks like i'll have to use the solid bars for them when the ScR 1's eventually come out...Ii'll be having words with OR at Warley on Saturday about it. If you get a chance maybe you can ask them if there is any update on the livery application on the ScotRail Mk3s. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiddles47 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 (edited) If you get a chance maybe you can ask them if there is any update on the livery application on the ScotRail Mk3s. I will do Waverley!! That'll probably be the most asked question they'll get lol Although they have said they'll have samples on display. watch this space as they say Edited November 22, 2018 by Tiddles47 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Mac Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 I will do Waverley!! That'll probably be the most asked question they'll get lol Although they have said they'll have samples on display. watch this space as they say Well if they have livery samples on display, hopefully someone can get a comparison picture with a Bachmann Scotrail 47/7 or Mk2f Dbso to see how close (or far off) they are to matching.... I would do it myself, but unfortunately 10,000miles away! Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waverley47708 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Well if they have livery samples on display, hopefully someone can get a comparison picture with a Bachmann Scotrail 47/7 or Mk2f Dbso to see how close (or far off) they are to matching.... I would do it myself, but unfortunately 10,000miles away! Thanks I'm in the not so sunny other Perth, but will be at Falkirk rather than Warley. Look forward to hearing the views of those who see them in the flesh. Am I about to spent money on Finishing lazerglazing the Lima MK3s or am I going to be buying a couple of rakes of Oxfords? The livery is the main factor for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Mac Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 I'm in the not so sunny other Perth, but will be at Falkirk rather than Warley. Look forward to hearing the views of those who see them in the flesh. Am I about to spent money on Finishing lazerglazing the Lima MK3s or am I going to be buying a couple of rakes of Oxfords? The livery is the main factor for me. Enjoy anyway..... at least you have the chance to visit different exhibitions.... down here, not much in the way of clubs.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
66738 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Any reports from Warley on the colours used? Please please let Oxford have listened and taken action on the Scotrail ones. But I’ll not hold my breath. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Looks like a note on the display case that these are the (pre-production) early livery samples.... i.e the one's that have been trawled round the show's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Colours same as intercity ones. They ARE going to add silver surrounds to windows but ARE NOT altering the colours as they maintain they are right and others are wrong. Their rep advised me that in their survey 70% modellers said they wanted correct colours and not a match to other manufacturers so that is what Oxford will deliver. They claim the colours are exactly as per BR design manual so are correct. Also advised that arrival may be middle of next year for scotrail ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37081LochLong Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) I bet if they were to do a new poll with regards to just the Scotrail mk3's and I'm confident that the result would be completely different... Oh well that's two full rakes that I will no longer be buying! Edited November 24, 2018 by 37081LochLong Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Personally, silver window surrounds don't make any difference to me when the other colours are still wrong. Correct colours and silver window frames then I'd have ordered 2 full rakes straight away Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiddles47 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Colours same as intercity ones. They ARE going to add silver surrounds to windows but ARE NOT altering the colours as they maintain they are right and others are wrong. Their rep advised me that in their survey 70% modellers said they wanted correct colours and not a match to other manufacturers so that is what Oxford will deliver. They claim the colours are exactly as per BR design manual so are correct. Also advised that arrival may be middle of next year for scotrail ones. That was the first thing I asked the guy there, he said they will be along sometime in the new year after all the B&G variants have arrived. I then asked about the colour and the silver window surrounds will be there so i said "what about the light grey?" his reply was they're going by old BR colour schemes that date back to the 70's but have been updated over the years Another point i put to him was about possibly adding a solid bar coupling akin to Bachmann and the Hornby Maunsells...i explained about the trouble i had this week regarding the MK3 pushing off the DBSO. his reply was "no, the tension lock couplings are fine but I would use something like that anyway. Try Peters Spares they have stuff like that..."(Roco solid type) so that to my implies his own product is no good.... luckily I found a stand that had the said solid Roco type couplings Thoughts??? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Mac Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 How disappointing....... All I can suggest that everyone messages Oxford Rail, via their Facebook site, website or the Rep at the show, and express their concern about the lack of colour matching with the Bachmann Scotrail livery on the 47/7 and DBSO’s... I suppose another future option is if a retailer commissioned Hornby to colour match their mk3’s to the Bachmann Scotrail livery... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UP 4000 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 That was the first thing I asked the guy there, he said they will be along sometime in the new year after all the B&G variants have arrived. I then asked about the colour and the silver window surrounds will be there so i said "what about the light grey?" his reply was they're going by old BR colour schemes that date back to the 70's but have been updated over the years Another point i put to him was about possibly adding a solid bar coupling akin to Bachmann and the Hornby Maunsells...i explained about the trouble i had this week regarding the MK3 pushing off the DBSO. his reply was "no, the tension lock couplings are fine but I would use something like that anyway. Try Peters Spares they have stuff like that..."(Roco solid type) so that to my implies his own product is no good.... luckily I found a stand that had the said solid Roco type couplings Thoughts??? I won't be modelling Scotrail, but the only good thing there is Peter's Spares, my local model shop and where the Executive livery's came from and now collecting the Blue/Grey's also from there, There a cracking team, know there stuff and helped me out loads of times, Thumbs up, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted November 24, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 24, 2018 How disappointing....... All I can suggest that everyone messages Oxford Rail, via their Facebook site, website or the Rep at the show, and express their concern about the lack of colour matching with the Bachmann Scotrail livery on the 47/7 and DBSO’s... I suppose another future option is if a retailer commissioned Hornby to colour match their mk3’s to the Bachmann Scotrail livery... No the colours just should be correct, like Precision correct. I go by what the paint specialists have done and not people with less information. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 70% of modellers voted for Brexit and it looks like they are perhaps not getting what they asked for. I'm sorry OR, you made a good job of the Blue & Grey, but just where did you get the Executive/Swallow/ScotRail livery details from the 1970's? 70% of the buying public just want them to be correct, and that is not it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 No the colours just should be correct, like Precision correct. I go by what the paint specialists have done and not people with less information. We are fortunate that both Phoenix Precision and Railmatch matched their paints to BR's samples that were provided to the paint suppliers and not as OR seem to have done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Indeed it would seem Railmatch, Phoenix, Bachmann, Lima, Replica all got the colour more or less the same and all different from OR (and to be fair Hornby who went the other way). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shunny Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Would it be feasible to run Bachmann 47 and DBSO in Scotrail with Oxford Blue/Grey Mk3's in the middle, such as during the period of the livery transition? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
66738 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Colours same as intercity ones. They ARE going to add silver surrounds to windows but ARE NOT altering the colours as they maintain they are right and others are wrong. Their rep advised me that in their survey 70% modellers said they wanted correct colours and not a match to other manufacturers so that is what Oxford will deliver. They claim the colours are exactly as per BR design manual so are correct. Also advised that arrival may be middle of next year for scotrail ones.How disappointing but not entirely surprising! What was the point of Oxford Rail buying a Bachmann 47/7 at Modelrail Scotland back in February to compare, but still insist the colours they have used are correct when an awful lot of people including some highly respected modellers are trying to help them by telling them they are are far from correct. Sometimes you just can’t tell ‘em, and you’ve just got to let them crack on and find out for themselves what a monumental error they have made. All the helpful advice that’s been given has been ignored (apart from the silver window surrounds which amazingly they’ve taken on board). I tried in Glasgow months ago and got pretty much the same response about the colours are correct BR specifications, and we voted for this. It’s so frustrating. Countless rakes of these Scotrail versions, as well as Intercity Swallow and at some point Executive liveries could have been sold but lots like me will have turned their back on them. A huge number of sales lost. If they’d only just listen. And like as already been said, if they were to do the survey again, i’m pretty sure they would get a different outcome. After all, we originally voted to match the proper BR paint colours. We expected the colours to be right. Oxford say they are right but they clearly are not. Now we’d vote to match Bachmann, Lima, Railmatch etc etc. Blimey, Lima got it right 20 odd years ago! 2018 Oxford can’t. I’m sorry, I know i’m venting my spleen here but they don’t deserve for this project to be a success. And I really wanted the project to be a big success for them. 66738 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James90012 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Utter uselessness. This industry is plagued by a lack of QA care and attention all which could be avoided for free if they just posted the samples up on Rmweb and set out what criticism could be solved and which would remain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfsup Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Utter uselessness. This industry is plagued by a lack of QA care and attention all which could be avoided for free if they just posted the samples up on Rmweb and set out what criticism could be solved and which would remain. I have to say, speaking of Quality issues, I had the chance to look at some of Hornby's new Mk3 releases earlier and frankly they were awful - Very fuzzy and wonky printing on the GWR versions, while the bogies looked fragile as well. All in all, it's rather sad that something as ubiquitous and as widespread as a Mk3 still can't make the grade by any of our manufacturers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Mac Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) I have to say, speaking of Quality issues, I had the chance to look at some of Hornby's new Mk3 releases earlier and frankly they were awful - Very fuzzy and wonky printing on the GWR versions, while the bogies looked fragile as well. All in all, it's rather sad that something as ubiquitous and as widespread as a Mk3 still can't make the grade by any of our manufacturers. Wasn’t just the GWR version, the Hornby Intercity Swallow version had a number of errors in it, again all easily avoidable.... but here’s the issue.... it looks like they have basically sold out of the swallow TSO’s, so as far as they are concerned it’s been a successful run...Got to say that the OR intercity coaches have been getting sold off pretty cheaply by some places, think £17 was the cheapest...surely that must indicate to them that there is something wrong... Edited November 25, 2018 by Andy Mac Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PJ10 Posted November 25, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2018 Morning, Disappointed with the ScotRail livery news but not really surprised. When I talked with the rep at Glasgow earlier this year I was hopeful that things would change, especially when he told me they were buying one of the 47/7 limited editions. But the longer this has gone on the more resigned I have been to the fact that we will get the same colours as used on the InterCity Coaches. Looking on the bright side, I'll wait until they appear cheap in the bargain buckets of various retailers and look at getting them professionally repainted. Or not buy any and put the money towards a few more of the just announce Accurascale Deltics. PJ10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 By the reluctance to listen and act on the colour issues and with the errors they introduced from day one, they certainly have opened up the opportunity for an enterprising manufacturer to come along and do these properly - perhaps the Bachmann 2f's are the best example (so far) of what can be achieved with a lot of care and attention to detail, albeit for no small sums of money. Unfortunately for OR, fixing these errors on the existing tooling would probably wipe out any profit they were making from the release, never mind the cost of a contract variation to alter the agreed colours. I hoped they'd get the blue & grey versions correct, and livery wise, an d within reason they did. As for the body/bogie errors, I'd wager 70% of us would just accept them. The question is though, is the market for Mk3a's big enough to support yet another version? It is a real pity, that Oxford Rail, in not listening and acting on customer feedback have soured any future version/variants that they once intended to produce and no doubt wiped off a lot of the profit from the model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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