Oxford Rail Wish List?

[Edwardian]

I would have thought an Ilfracombe Goods a long shot, but, I for one would have several!  I would have one in its LSAWR heyday, one, at least, in its Colonel Stephens state and one for a freelance line - it was a standard design, so even though all the ex-LSWR locomotives are accounted for, others could have been supplied elsewhere.  Indeed, I plan to have one if I can find a way to model one within my capabilities. 

[br-nse-fan]

Since this is a wish list, I'll second some of the previous posts about GWR coaches, specifically the Toplights.  My personal wish, while not likely to be realized, would be for some 70' coaches...

For rolling stock, the GWR Toad will always be welcome.  But for the more 'modern' modeller, how about a high-spec 12t vent van?  Unlike the Hornby version of the Vanwide/VEA vans, something that has the correct wheelbase! 

Edited February 20, 2016 by br-nse-fan

[Mark Saunders]

One of the major problems with current oferings of wagons is that there is still the one size fits all is still prevalent!

 

The fitted 16t minerals and BR Vanfits have never been released with clasp brakes!

 

The RCH all steel 20ton mineral has only ever been produce in one body style by four different manufacturers, when there are several variations and the current chassis is still in need of an upgrade!

 

Still plenty of prototypes out there to cover!

 

Mark Saunders

[Edwardian]

My personal preference is also for 70-footers.  On major routes these vehicles could account for 50% of the express traffic.  In many ways 70-footers are a better match for the new Kings than the 57-footers.

 

The GW was notorious for its non-uniform rakes.  To get a flavour of express services, I think the minimum you need are 2 styles of 57-footers (I would suggest Toplights in addition to the new Hornbys) and 2 styles of 70-footers (I would suggest Dreadnoughts and South Wales types).

 

So, that's 4 sets of coaches, and that, I fear, makes  the likelihood remote [sigh].

[Clearwater]

My personal preference is also for 70-footers.  On major routes these vehicles could account for 50% of the express traffic.  In many ways 70-footers are a better match for the new Kings than the 57-footers.

 

The GW was notorious for its non-uniform rakes.  To get a flavour of express services, I think the minimum you need are 2 styles of 57-footers (I would suggest Toplights in addition to the new Hornbys) and 2 styles of 70-footers (I would suggest Dreadnoughts and South Wales types).

 

So, that's 4 sets of coaches, and that, I fear, makes  the likelihood remote [sigh].

All of which is why I've bitten the bullet and decided to learn to build etched brass coach kits. Hopefully though the rtr market will help out with some of the variety!

 

David

[Dunsignalling]

My personal preference is also for 70-footers.  On major routes these vehicles could account for 50% of the express traffic.  In many ways 70-footers are a better match for the new Kings than the 57-footers.

 

The GW was notorious for its non-uniform rakes.  To get a flavour of express services, I think the minimum you need are 2 styles of 57-footers (I would suggest Toplights in addition to the new Hornbys) and 2 styles of 70-footers (I would suggest Dreadnoughts and South Wales types).

 

So, that's 4 sets of coaches, and that, I fear, makes  the likelihood remote [sigh].

By applying a bit of lateral thinking, you could do one type from each design.

 

The problem with that, though is that everybody's rake would be uniformly non-uniform.

 

John

[gwrrob]

My personal preference is also for 70-footers.  On major routes these vehicles could account for 50% of the express traffic.  In many ways 70-footers are a better match for the new Kings than the 57-footers.

 

The GW was notorious for its non-uniform rakes.  To get a flavour of express services, I think the minimum you need are 2 styles of 57-footers (I would suggest Toplights in addition to the new Hornbys) and 2 styles of 70-footers (I would suggest Dreadnoughts and South Wales types).

 

So, that's 4 sets of coaches, and that, I fear, makes  the likelihood remote [sigh].

Whilst I agree with your post a few 70 footers is quite a long train in model form and might look silly on yours truly's modest roundy roundy.

[br-nse-fan]

My personal preference is also for 70-footers.  On major routes these vehicles could account for 50% of the express traffic.  In many ways 70-footers are a better match for the new Kings than the 57-footers.

 

The GW was notorious for its non-uniform rakes.  To get a flavour of express services, I think the minimum you need are 2 styles of 57-footers (I would suggest Toplights in addition to the new Hornbys) and 2 styles of 70-footers (I would suggest Dreadnoughts and South Wales types).

 

So, that's 4 sets of coaches, and that, I fear, makes  the likelihood remote [sigh].

 

I'm far from an expert on GWR coach formations, but how accurate... or at least, how close to the real thing can we get with current RTR options?  If not in accuracy, at least in spirit?

So far we have the Hornby Collett's, Bachmann Collett's and Hornby Hawksworth's... even if just the all-thirds unless we move into BR

 

As for the 70' coaches ever being made RTR? I believe some have suggested that they are just too big for the majority of modellers. Yes, the MK4 coaches are about the same size, but it's something to do with the bogie pivots that would cause an overhang problem.  This, AFAIK, is why they were route restricted in the first place.

[Edwardian]

That's simple Rob, it just means that you have to extend the layout.  I would imagine that the Domestic Authorities would quite understand the need to do so in order to accommodate a rake of 70' coaches (!). 

 

BR-NSE-Fan, my knowledge of such things is confined to the 1930s.  I am aware of only one service the consist of which lets you use all the Hornby Colletts as a train, and that's a Weston service if I recall. Even then I doubt that service was a uniform rake as they almost never were.  The Bow-ended Colletts did run in sets when first introduced, but I don't think that lasted long and I imagine they would have worn their originally faux-panel livery at that point.

 

The big omission for me are full brakes and brake composites, and it is hard to make up many formations without them.. 

 

I think you get a brake composite with the Sunshine stock (Replica/Bachmann), but that's too late for me.  Hornby have not chosen to produce a bow-ended Brake compo, as yet. Studying the expresses on the South Devon mainline shows that brake composites abounded.  There are far more 57' brake composites in the timetable than 57' Van Thirds (which Hornby think are called "Brake" Thirds, for some reason (!)), despite the fact that you'd think you'd need a pair to frame each portion of your train. Surprisingly, there are also more 57' brake composites than 57' Thirds.  

 

You'd find lots of thirds in non-timetabled excursions, I would imagine.

 

Full Brakes, or, properly, Brake Vans, are also pretty essential in good quantities, particularly if you want to run parcels, postals or perishables.  The 60' K40, though, is probably more representative of a cross-country service using 57' coaches than the popular, but generally over-represented 57' K38 (Ocean Mails), so Hornby don't even have the u/f etc for that one.

 

Kits are inevitable if you want representative consist using representative types.  

Edited February 21, 2016 by Edwardian

[Budgie]

If you want to model the passenger trains that ran up the Taff Vale main line from Cardiff to Merthyr and Treherbert up to when they were replaced by class 116s, you can't. And if you want to model them after they were replaced by class 116s, you can't. But I'm not going to put these GWR non-gangwayed coaches onto this wish list, as they are already on the annual wish list, and that's good enough for me.

[The Stationmaster]

Whilst I agree with your post a few 70 footers is quite a long train in model form and might look silly on yours truly's modest roundy roundy.

 

I do wonder about 70 footers - strike me as overlong and also over pricey as the extra length also has to be developed and paid for. I'll say no more.

[BG John]

70ft concertina coaches would seem ideal. They could be stretched out to full length for big layouts, and compressed for small ones .

[Edwardian]

And, obviously, a great candidate for DCC sound.....

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I rather got the impression from the early announcements that a 'range to emerge over four or five years' was already planned. Maybe we should just sit back and wait for most of that to appear before making suggestions? I imagine the proprieter will want to see what materialises in sales from these items when placed before the customers, and what by then appears to be trending in a popular direction, to inform future plans. I'd have some questions if 'twere me in the hot seat.

 

Is the SR small tank loco genre now played out? (A1X, M7, BWT, Adams Radial, O2, E4, available; USA tank and B4 to come, did I miss any?)

Could the small tank loco mechanism experience gained with the Radial tank be 'recycled' to prototypes 'of interest' with long service into BR days elsewhere in the UK?

If the Dean Goods sells well, are there any other late surviving GW locos that lack a good model?

If the Dean Goods sells well, can the proven mechanism layout be recycled into other late surviving 0-6-0 types likely to be 'of interest' elsewhere in the UK?

Now I am on the radar, what can I make that will excite interest and grab sales, for which there is next to no competition (carving out my own distinctive niche)?

 

While it seems blindingly obvious to me that there are some 'open goals' as gap fillers among what is already available or announced RTR, (MR/LMS 0-4-4T, GNR/LNE 0-6-0, SECR/SR 4-4-0, GER/LNE tank loco, LMS standard opens and vans, for example) and a huge largely unexplored territory North of a line Manchester - York; perhaps there is other imnformation out there that suggests these are unwise propositions.

[Budgie]

Is the SR small tank loco genre now played out? (A1X, M7, BWT, Adams Radial, O2, E4, available; USA tank and B4 to come, did I miss any?)

H 0-4-4T, beautiful in full SECR livery as on the Bluebell.

P 0-6-0T, beautiful in full SECR livery as on the Bluebell, and beautiful in blue as on the Bluebell.

[Edwardian]

I agree with Budgie; SECR H and P classes, both of which:

• Are popular subjects that score respectably in wish list polls
• Are practical and useful choices for Grouping and Pre-Grouping layout builders (and, they would both fit perfectly with the scheme I outlined for minimum number of locos for pre-Grouping companies)
• There is already an 0-6-0 goods engine to complement them (though it is nothing short of bizarre that Bachmann has never re-released it in the full Wainwright livery)
• There should (eventually) be birdcage coaches to support them (though whether hope of ever seeing them should be fading by this stage is a nagging doubt).

Then there is:

• Something to go with those Ks LBSC 4-wheelers (though a balloon trailer would be nice), the Brighton Terrier.  It must be a popular subject for Hornby to sell so many of their POS versions.  A modern, accurate model scored highly in the BRM wish-list poll.

Other, non-SR constituent, candidates include:

• Something to go with your Ratio Great Western 4-wheelers, and Ks auto-trailers, the 0-4-2T 517 Class, another very respectable wish-list poller.
• Something to go with those Ratio Midland suburban coaches, a 1P 0-4--4T, also scoring respectably in the wish-list polls.

These are just some of the practical, potentially commercially viable, moderately likely to be made candidates.

 

So, no, I don't think the SR "small tank loco genre" is anywhere near played out.

 

The "obscure, only 3 were made, they never worked and were withdrawn within 5 minutes" diesel genre has, after all, not yet flagged.

 

EDIT: PS: I do agree that there are a number of obvious "gap fillers" and I also agree that these would include "MR/LMS 0-4-4T, GNR/LNE 0-6-0, SECR/SR 4-4-0, GER/LNE tank loco, LMS standard opens and vans"

 

In terms of GW late survivors, I would suggest the 4300 2-6-0 and the 4-4-0 Bulldog.  We need a modern spec model of the Mogul, which scores highly in the wish-list polls. 

 

I think it is a mistake, however, to limit choice to late survivors where the Great Western is concerned.  For example, though scoring quite highly in the BRM wish-list poll (and significantly ahead of some of the Sacred Cows of the National Collection, like Gladstone and Hardwick), the great sin of the 517 Class 0-4-2T is that it did not survive to Nationalisation or Preservation, a factor with which RTR manufacturers seem obsessed to an absurd degree because it is such a constraint upon the future of steam-outline modelling. 

 

For the GW, I would suggest:

• 2-6-0 4300 Class Mogul
• 4-4-0 Bulldog class, at least with both shallow frames and deep, Bird, frames. If not a curly-wirly.  Bachmann, after all, have already modelled Bulldog frames.
• 0-4-2T 517 Class.
• 4-6-0 Saint

Less likely, but still desirable:

• 2-6-0 Aberdare
• 2-4-0 Metro Tank
• 0-6-0 Saddle tank
• 0-6-0 Armstrong Goods
• Dean Single

Edited February 22, 2016 by Edwardian

[Star-rider]

Whilst I agree with your post a few 70 footers is quite a long train in model form and might look silly on yours truly's modest roundy roundy.

 

As my model is a fictitious location somewhere on the edge of the West Midlands I have chosen Wolverhampton as a datum point in deciding what formations to acquire or build.

 

The book “Train Formations And Carriage Workings Of The Great Western Railway” is my one and only reference point I’m afraid ,but this suggests that the 06:30 from Birkenhead would have come in comprised of five 70’ coaches; BTK/TK/CK/BTK/BC – other vehicles were added at Wolverhampton and Banbury for the remainder of the Journey to Paddington.

 

It therefore seems that a realistic train can be formed using five 70’ coaches, not a great deal of difference to a train of six 57’ bow ends.

 

I have built three from Comet kits; the fourth will be purchased in due course but the Brake Composite remains a challenge as it does not seem to be commercially available from anyone at the moment.

[Edwardian]

Star-rider, a good point if I may say so.

 

If memory serves, according to the 1932-33 winter timetable (which ran to July) there was a service on the South Devon mainline, your patch, of only 5 70-footers and one of 7.  I will have to look them up again!

 

Further, you can run a local stopper to Brent with 1 or 2 70-footers attached, and then send them down the branch attached to your B-Set.

 

I believe 70-footers were still going strong in your period.  You really have no excuse, I'm afraid! 

[Quarryscapes]

In no particular order

 

GWR 517

Cambrian Jones Goods

Furness/Cambrian/LNWR/DR&C/P&T/M&M etc Sharp Stewart Standard Goods 0-6-0. Just about every corner of the UK had one and I believe some went abroad too. A very useful base engine for Pre Grouping people.

GCR 9F/LNER N5 

LNWR Cauliflower Goods

Manning Wardle 0-6-0ST That every Pre 1900 railway had one or two of and every contractor had several of

Metropolitan Beyer Peacock 4-4-0Ts 

GWR Aberdare 2-6-0

 

RCH 1907 Wagons with a variety of axle boxes

ROD/LSWR Brake Van

LNWR Wagons, any of them! 

[Devo63]

I'm another modeller who would like to see GWR 70' coaches available RTR. I know exactly when they will be announced - the day after I finally complete my seven coach South Wales set!

 

Even though I mainly model between the wars GWR (plus a pre-group joint GWR/LNWR line in planning stages) I would always be interested in small, older design, 0-6-0 tender engines from any pre-group company - I just love the variety of liveries from the Edwardian era.

 

Some of the suggestions made previously in this topic regarding earlier Great Western designs would also be appreciated. A 517 class, an Aberdare and an early square frame Saint would be nice but what I would really like to see is a good model of a large 0-6-0ST. We seem to have plenty of panniers but the earlier saddle tanks are only available as kits and they are few and far between. If done right the chassis could be used for original build saddle tanks and also used under models of the rebuilds. I would also dearly like to see a pre-group Welsh design 0-6-2T, preferably from the TVR but would be happy for RR.

 

Dave 

[rue_d_etropal]

I would suggest anything that has not been done in past 30 years. As modellers it is not that difficult to modify most locos if it actually bothers you.  That is why I am not so happy about Deans Goods loco, the GWR Metro tank in various versions would be a better  one. Another would be a GER/LNER E4 2-4-0 loco. GER livery would be colourful enough for display only people.

Instead of the Mk 3 coaches I would suggest any pre-prouping coaches, possibly generic so could be produced in various liveries. So many pre-grouping locos and nothing to pull.

[Dunsignalling]

 

Furness/Cambrian/LNWR/DR&C/P&T/M&M etc Sharp Stewart Standard Goods 0-6-0. Just about every corner of the UK had one and I believe some went abroad too. A very useful base engine for Pre Grouping people.

 

Manning Wardle 0-6-0ST That every Pre 1900 railway had one or two of and every contractor had several of

 

RCH 1907 Wagons with a variety of axle boxes

 

ROD/LSWR Brake Van

 

 

Especially good choices to provide maximum geographical coverage from a limited number of models.

 

John

Edited March 2, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[Mark Saunders]

There are plenty of North Eastern pregrouping hopper that survived till well after Nationalisation!

 

A Ministry of Munitions 20 ton ore hopper would have lots of scope for liveries and lasted on the mainline till the 1960's and in collieries till the mid 1980's.

 

Mark Saunders

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...As modellers it is not that difficult to modify most locos if it actually bothers you...

 This is very true. I regard all RTR as potential feedstock, mainly as a shortcut for making other things.

 

...That is why I am not so happy about Deans Goods loco...

But conversely it is why I am very happy about a Dean Goods. Not that I want anything from Swindon polluting the Right side: but the necessarily compact mechanism on a Ramsbottom wheelbase is very useful indeed as the basis for other classes.

[Phatbob]

As we are wishlisting, how about a 1960s Carflat Mr Oxford?  Complete with five of your new Hillman Imps for us to recreate the "Linwood Express" in miniature?