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Bachmann 94xx


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1 hour ago, Nick Gough said:

Mountford says (in 'Caerphilly Works'),

"Following a suggestion by a member of the public, in November 1949 it was instructed that the background of G.W.R. number-plates were to be painted red instead of black, the instruction not applying to smokebox plates. This practice lasted until April 1952 when, following numerous complaints from railway enthusiasts, particularly photographers, the black background was restored."

 

No mention of any deviation from Swindon.

This is what I half remembered.  There were red backed smokebox plates though, including Canton's 2906 Lady of Lynn, in plain black G W R austerity livery. this and the rd backed number and name plates possibly applied at the shed as part of the loco's famous spit'n'polish for her last week of service.   As I said, Caerphilly obeyed the instructions from Swindon, which presumably came from Paddington and may or may not have been authorised by Marylebone...

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I know the firebox glow isn’t correct for running, but if I bought something that has a feature, I would like it to work, which it did. DCC would make the flow better for only owning when you want it to. Has anyone dissected a 94xx yet and could tell me how to fix it? 
 

On a side note, isn’t the weathered 94xx incorrect? They used the paint job of 9400, compared to what they produced on 9402. (Incorrect position of route marking, GWR is spaced wrong, polished rims, and silver accents)

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1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

THE PRECIOUS!!!!

 

IT IS HERE!!!!

 

IT HAS ARRIVED!!!!

 

PRECIOUSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Calm down Johnster, it's only a loco.

 

No it's not, it's the PRECIOUSSSSS!!!!

 

I've only unboxed it and given it an intitial examination once over, but impressions are very favourable so far.  Everything that should be attached to the locomotive is attached to the locomotive, rear steps no problem you just lift the loco vertically out of it's clear plastic holder and they come away sweetly enough.  Nice lump of weight, and the first loco I've bought with separate etched brass number plates to go over the printed ones on the cab sides, nice touch, and an etched works plate to go with them.  Won't be using these as I'm renumbering to 8448, a Bagnall, but it is a nice touch and enhances the feeling of a quality bit of kit.  Separate cab doors are another Good Idea.  I also like that the brake rigging is factory fitted rather than a separate retrofit detail; the usual pipes and hooks are supplied in a details bag of course.

 

Finish and printing are about as good as it gets, and the level of detail beneath the tanks and boiler is a step forward in what is expected of RTR volume production; well done Blue Box.  I waited a long time for this, complained vigorously when it was put back time and again, and it is only right that I should express my satisfaction now that the beastie is in my chubby little hands.  It feels like it was worth the wait, but it was a very long wait!  The new number and works plates have already been ordered along with a Modelu loco crew pack (driver, firemen, and full set of lamps).  I paid £106 at Rails of Sheffield, but this is still the most expensive single item I have ever bought for my layout, and will probably remain so until Hornby bring out a retooled 2721...  I feel the price is fair in modern times for what is an exceptionally well detailed and finished model, and have no complaints on that score, though the Squeeze's eyebrows raised a bit when I ordered it last year.

 

Running in (workbench because I don't have a continuous run test track) and running trials on the layout later.  I have already confirmed that the pickups contact correctly across the entire range of side play, so running should be fine.  I will check back to backs before trials.  She'll run as 9487 until the 8448 plates arrive.

 

As for the firebox glow, like Mr Isherwood I think it's a bit gimmicky especially for DC, and am glad to hear that it is pretty subdued at low voltage.  I'll give it a chance, though, and so long as it doesn't bother me in normal ambient light I'll leave it as it is; I do run low lighting sessions sometimes when it might be nice to have.  Probably not hard to disconnect if I find it intrusive.

Stand down the search teams, sniffer dogs, helicopters and tell East Anglian mountain rescue they won't be needed after all!

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1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

I remain very puzzled by this apparent fascination with firebox glow.  Anyone would think that engines ran around all the time with open firebox doors.  Taht was a long way from the truth because you only open the doors to actually fire the engine, leaving them open is a route to cold air getting onto the firebox in exactly the wrong place.  so intermittent firebox glow would make sense but no more than that.  

 

As for steam sound I'm still waiting for somebody to get it right although the Accurascale multi-speaker arrangement for the Manor does give cause for long overdue hope in that respect.

You can turn off the firebox glow with a simple push of the F6 button......

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10 minutes ago, Lyonshall Castle said:

You can turn off the firebox glow with a simple push of the F6 button......

I've just tried that on my 'puter keyboard and  it had no effect whatsoever on my 94XX:jester:   Yes, like the Johnster I too am not into a slightly higher track voltage of using ac, instead of dc,  electricity supply.  But there might be an internal bit of wiring that could be disabled.

 

However none of that answers the peculiar fascination ths gimmick seems to be increasingly attracting from r-t-r manufacturers.  Does the amount of glow change with the exhaust beat I wonder?

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38 minutes ago, Ribird said:

I know the firebox glow isn’t correct for running

It is correct for running when the loco is being actively fired as of course the firebox doors have to be opened to get the coal in there.  This happens more often when the loco is working hard, such as accelerating uphill with a full load, and the fireman has to shovel the coal as quickly as he can to keep pressure within the working range.   If you watch video of this you will see the exhaust steam interrupted by brief bursts of coal dust as each round of coal is put on.  At night the glare from the fiercely burning fire is obvious from the cab as well.  
 

But the fire draws best with the doors shut, so they are closed after each round is put on and opened again for the next one.   The driver may do this to help if the fireman is struggling, and I’ve done it myself on footplate rides. 
 

So in DCC, the glow needs to be visible in short bursts, the frequency of which should be related to the work the loco is doing, about every 10 seconds when the loco is working flat out, hardly at all cruising on the level, and not at all coasting or decelerating. 

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1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

THE PRECIOUS!!!!

 

IT IS HERE!!!!

 

IT HAS ARRIVED!!!!

 

PRECIOUSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Calm down Johnster, it's only a loco.

 

No it's not, it's the PRECIOUSSSSS!!!!

 

I've only unboxed it and given it an intitial examination once over, but impressions are very favourable so far.  Everything that should be attached to the locomotive is attached to the locomotive, rear steps no problem you just lift the loco vertically out of it's clear plastic holder and they come away sweetly enough.  Nice lump of weight, and the first loco I've bought with separate etched brass number plates to go over the printed ones on the cab sides, nice touch, and an etched works plate to go with them.  Won't be using these as I'm renumbering to 8448, a Bagnall, but it is a nice touch and enhances the feeling of a quality bit of kit.  Separate cab doors are another Good Idea.  I also like that the brake rigging is factory fitted rather than a separate retrofit detail; the usual pipes and hooks are supplied in a details bag of course.

 

Finish and printing are about as good as it gets, and the level of detail beneath the tanks and boiler is a step forward in what is expected of RTR volume production; well done Blue Box.  I waited a long time for this, complained vigorously when it was put back time and again, and it is only right that I should express my satisfaction now that the beastie is in my chubby little hands.  It feels like it was worth the wait, but it was a very long wait!  The new number and works plates have already been ordered along with a Modelu loco crew pack (driver, firemen, and full set of lamps).  I paid £106 at Rails of Sheffield, but this is still the most expensive single item I have ever bought for my layout, and will probably remain so until Hornby bring out a retooled 2721...  I feel the price is fair in modern times for what is an exceptionally well detailed and finished model, and have no complaints on that score, though the Squeeze's eyebrows raised a bit when I ordered it last year.

 

Running in (workbench because I don't have a continuous run test track) and running trials on the layout later.  I have already confirmed that the pickups contact correctly across the entire range of side play, so running should be fine.  I will check back to backs before trials.  She'll run as 9487 until the 8448 plates arrive.

 

As for the firebox glow, like Mr Isherwood I think it's a bit gimmicky especially for DC, and am glad to hear that it is pretty subdued at low voltage.  I'll give it a chance, though, and so long as it doesn't bother me in normal ambient light I'll leave it as it is; I do run low lighting sessions sometimes when it might be nice to have.  Probably not hard to disconnect if I find it intrusive.

I thought I heard you over the roar of the traffic whilst squelching round Howardian Nature Reserve earlier......

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1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

I remain very puzzled by this apparent fascination with firebox glow.  Anyone would think that engines ran around all the time with open firebox doors.  Taht was a long way from the truth because you only open the doors to actually fire the engine, leaving them open is a route to cold air getting onto the firebox in exactly the wrong place.  so intermittent firebox glow would make sense but no more than that.  

 

As for steam sound I'm still waiting for somebody to get it right although the Accurascale multi-speaker arrangement for the Manor does give cause for long overdue hope in that respect.

Bachmann’s Midland 1Ps should appeal, then. The light comes on with the sound of the firehole door opening, followed by the sound of shovelling. Switch off the sound and the light goes out too.

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Remember that most Western locomotives are fired on the flap. The entire class of 94's were post-war.  That said, I'm one of those odd, non-DCC luddites. The upcoming 16xx, and the last batches of 78xx  (and, the last 6995 Halls  )  had the flap either as-built, or re-instated.  The same should also count for the 15xx class. Closing up the doors will leave a small half-hole on the joint, about 2" diameter. In our scale, that's what...? ..  0.6mm?  Fair to say, I would consider that as an expensive gimmick; its apparent failure  ( for some )  only draws attention to its failure, not the models better attributes, or fidelity. 

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On 02/02/2021 at 11:50, The Johnster said:

A week of national rejoicing will of course be declared as soon as the situation is rectified, dancing in the streets, day off school, prisoners released, bunting, that sort of thing.

 

4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

THE PRECIOUS!!!!

 

IT IS HERE!!!!

 

IT HAS ARRIVED!!!!

 

PRECIOUSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Calm down Johnster, it's only a loco.

 

No it's not, it's the PRECIOUSSSSS!!!!

 

Well, what a relief!

 

The week of partying has now started, I suppose?

 

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4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I remain very puzzled by this apparent fascination with firebox glow.  Anyone would think that engines ran around all the time with open firebox doors.  Taht was a long way from the truth because you only open the doors to actually fire the engine, leaving them open is a route to cold air getting onto the firebox in exactly the wrong place.  so intermittent firebox glow would make sense but no more than that.  

 

If the manufacturers would follow the correct route re firebox glow then it would be controlled on DCC from a function which many decoder manufacturers provide (and have done for years, then it could be turned on and off as required.

 

The arrangement on the Dapol 43XX is IMHO abysmal and not worth fitting.

Once the warranty is up it'll have a connection to a decoder function. (If i can be bothered with it!)

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4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I remain very puzzled by this apparent fascination with firebox glow.

I think it might be the result of American influence; their locos, especially the older 4-4-0s and moguls, gave out a lot of light around the ashpan area and the draw of the chimney could be seen as a pulsing bright orange or yellow glare, even in full daylight, and of course this is replicated correctly in their DCC models.  Firebox glow is nothing new of course, Triang Hornby's M7 had it back in the 60s, followed by several others including their FS, but this was the crude voltage dependent type which is effectively what the DC version of the 94xx is, but it uses an led which is less dependent on voltage than the old filament bulbs and probably less dependent on high speed for 'effect'.  It is the least important aspect of my new 94xx so far as I'm concerned, unless it is obtrusive, in which case it's not going to last very long...

 

A company like Bachmann, with an American parent, may well be being persuaded to introduce such features by the parent even if they do not want to do so themselves.  This is a risky procedure, as the feature must be as realistic and effective as possible if it is not to provoke ridicule as a useless  gimmick, or worse; remember the Dapol operating water tower/rocket launcher!

 

It is of some interest in that I am not aware of such a DCC feature on any other RTR loco that can be used in DC 'mode'.  The model is RRP priced at £10 above the 8750 which is in the same ball park I would imagine for production costs; some of this difference is no doubt accounted for by the high standard of detail and the addition of etched brass number and works plates, but one can assume that some is down to the firebox glow.  It is such a small amount as to not cause me any issue.

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26 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
Er....Zoom partying ?

He didn't specify.

 

But one must hope that he is not distracted from Full Compliance with the Lockdown Rules and Regulations by his enthusiastic zeal and wanton pleasure!

 

Unless he lives in the Isle of Man.

 

Obviously.

 

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57 minutes ago, melmerby said:

If the manufacturers would follow the correct route re firebox glow then it would be controlled on DCC from a function which many decoder manufacturers provide (and have done for years, then it could be turned on and off as required.

 

The arrangement on the Dapol 43XX is IMHO abysmal and not worth fitting.

Once the warranty is up it'll have a connection to a decoder function. (If i can be bothered with it!)

 Your post rather makes my point, Keith. A non-working  (paid for )  'extra' isn't really what you want. I think I'd prefer a locomotive that is cheaper, and all working, than an expensive one, that doesn't.  

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Cwmdimbath is part of the Glorious Soviet Socialist Four Millimetre Republic of Johnstrania, where a week of National Rejoicing is indeed in full swing, and covid is not permitted By Order Of The Central Committee Of The Politburo, or as it is otherwise known, me.  A bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale has been purchased in Aldi.  
 

Initial running trials to check that it works show a loco that runs very smoothly straight from the box, but I’ve had to do some shopping this avo so further activity after dinner.   

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2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I think it might be the result of American influence; their locos, especially the older 4-4-0s and moguls, gave out a lot of light around the ashpan area and the draw of the chimney could be seen as a pulsing bright orange or yellow glare, even in full daylight, and of course this is replicated correctly in their DCC models.  Firebox glow is nothing new of course, Triang Hornby's M7 had it back in the 60s, followed by several others including their FS, but this was the crude voltage dependent type which is effectively what the DC version of the 94xx is, but it uses an led which is less dependent on voltage than the old filament bulbs and probably less dependent on high speed for 'effect'.  It is the least important aspect of my new 94xx so far as I'm concerned, unless it is obtrusive, in which case it's not going to last very long...

 

A company like Bachmann, with an American parent, may well be being persuaded to introduce such features by the parent even if they do not want to do so themselves.  This is a risky procedure, as the feature must be as realistic and effective as possible if it is not to provoke ridicule as a useless  gimmick, or worse; remember the Dapol operating water tower/rocket launcher!

 

It is of some interest in that I am not aware of such a DCC feature on any other RTR loco that can be used in DC 'mode'.  The model is RRP priced at £10 above the 8750 which is in the same ball park I would imagine for production costs; some of this difference is no doubt accounted for by the high standard of detail and the addition of etched brass number and works plates, but one can assume that some is down to the firebox glow.  It is such a small amount as to not cause me any issue.

Think you will find that Bachmann’s parent company Is in China

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2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

A company like Bachmann, with an American parent,

 

14 minutes ago, Blue Max said:

Think you will find that Bachmann’s parent company Is in China

 

Bachmann USA was bought out by Kader, which then spawned Bachman Europe. So there was no point in time when they had an American parent. Heritage, possibly, parent no.

 

Kader is HQ'd in HK, which is currently part of PRC. But, come the glorious day of true democracy...

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9 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

That doesn't alter my opinion - and, for what it's worth, the same goes for sound in my book.

 

But, then again, I am an old-fashioned, grumpy old git - so who cares?

 

John Isherwood.

 

Obviously you as you took time out to comment whilst at the same time being patronising to another member who obviously does care as he's still asking the question.

 

 

It's the "for the kiddies" comment that irks considering it's almost certainly people of your generation that want all these gimmicks, usually whilst also wanting them to make Hornby Dublo standard models and reintroduce the giraffe and turbo cars.

 

The real kiddies are too busy playing COD and Roblox to give a hoot about whether a steam train has firebox glow or sound.

 

 

 

Jason

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4 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Obviously you as you took time out to comment whilst at the same time being patronising to another member who obviously does care as he's still asking the question.

 

 

It's the "for the kiddies" comment that irks considering it's almost certainly people of your generation that want all these gimmicks, usually whilst also wanting them to make Hornby Dublo standard models and reintroduce the giraffe and turbo cars.

 

The real kiddies are too busy playing COD and Roblox to give a hoot about whether a steam train has firebox glow or sound.

 

 

 

Jason

 

I'm not aware of any statistically significant survey into whether the majority of railway modellers want 'firebox flicker', and other similar gimmicks; let alone a scientific demograph profile being published.

 

I think that these 'features' are more to do with the various model suppliers trying to outdo each other - and, of course, these 'upgrades' provide a perfect cover for increasing prices (and profits).

 

John Isherwood,

(self-confessed GOG).

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Meanwhile, in a sorting office in Penarth Road, Cardiff... 

 

" has he gone? Can we come out of hiding now?  We've been cooped up with this parcel since 2017....."

 

On another note, it would appear that the gestation period for the model is fairly close to the actual service life of the real thing....

 

Finally, somewhere in the Midlands,  a Moderator turns to his colleague, and throws his hands in the air......

 

"Well, what'll we do now?  Johnster has got his model, so there's nothing to read or moderate. Might as well go home......."

Edited by tomparryharry
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As I write, the future 8448 is upside down in a home made cradle with wires inserted in the keeper plate eyelets, running in.  Bachmann state half an hour in each direction at medium speed, so that's what she's getting.  Running is perfect, all wheels square to the axles and no tight spots, and the motor makes an impressive amount of no noise at all, at least at medium speed.  I think I'm going to be very happy with the performance of this loco.  Running trials later, and I suspect I may have to file a quarter mm off the front guard irons which are very close  to the track; the rear ones look ok to me.  We'll see.  Then attach the details, and she's in service, temporarily as 9487.

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