RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 30, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 30, 2017 The National Grid people have now gone off site. This is what it looks like at the Woodhead tunnel mouth now. General View The Old Tunnels The New Tunnel New Information Board 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted May 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1, 2017 Criminal. (Them, not you!). Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted May 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1, 2017 Back in the day. Mike. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted May 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1, 2017 Now that the Victorian tunnels are empty, they could be used for a new tunnel by breaking away the rock between them, lining the resulting cavity with modern concrete lining to stabilise the geology above and around it, put in new track and 25kV overhead and for a modest sum considerable rail capacity between the main cities of the area can be added. However, given the political reality of the day, that's not happening. Ever Given the current H&S culture the authorities would probably insist on two separate tunnels with a third access / evacuation tunnel between them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted May 1, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 1, 2017 Given the current H&S culture the authorities would probably insist on two separate tunnels with a third access / evacuation tunnel between them. Not necessarily. - the HS2 tunnel under the North Downs consists of a single double track bore (even larger than strictly necessary due to a lack of vent shafts being permitted for environmental reasons. Similarly the HS2 or Crossrail tunnels under London - while being single bore, do not feature a separate evacuation tunnel / access links between them (though emergency evacuation shafts must be provided (for which a station does count) every 25km IIRC. The simple question however is would it really be any cheaper messing around with tunnels 1&2 rather than simply boreing a 4th (or 4th & 5th) tunnel in a new alignment? I suspect not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted May 1, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 1, 2017 There is a precedent for enlarging an exiting tunnel on the line from Manchester to Preston near Farnworth IIRC. Here there were two small single track Victorian tunnels with no room for electrification. The answer was to fill one of them with foam concrete then bore a new double track bore on the same alignment. The tunnelling machine was built in the UK, Oldham I believe, and there were some problems which IIRC were due to an unexpected pocket of very soft sand that they ran into coupled with there being very little ground cover at one point. However it is now open and train are running through it. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted May 1, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 1, 2017 There is a precedent for enlarging an exiting tunnel on the line from Manchester to Preston near Farnworth IIRC. Here there were two small single track Victorian tunnels with no room for electrification. The answer was to fill one of them with foam concrete then bore a new double track bore on the same alignment. The tunnelling machine was built in the UK, Oldham I believe, and there were some problems which IIRC were due to an unexpected pocket of very soft sand that they ran into coupled with there being very little ground cover at one point. However it is now open and train are running through it. Jamie True, however in that situation the tunnel was in a built up area with very few options available to build a brand new tunnel, plus it was a short one. At Woodhead by contrast you don't have to engage in widespread demolition to carve out a new approch (indeed the National Parks authority might prefer an even longer tunnel thus requiring new approaches anyway) - so it comes down to a simple question of costs. Is building a new tunnel going to come at a lower cost and / or present significantly less risks than messing round with the Victorian bores. Sometimes with the Woodhead tunnels, I get the feel that railway enthusiasts have this fixation that because they exist, they must be used. A similar attitude is displayed to tube tunnels - with various suggestions being made on a similar basis such as extending the DLR from Bank to 'take advantage' of the disused Jubilee line station at Charing Cross or alternatively to 'reuse' Farringdon (using ex Thameslink branch to Moorgate) as part of the route. Enthusiasts of such proposals also tend to like the idea of linking up the W&C and Great Northern Moorgate services (despite various other tube lines getting in the way at bank, the small diameter of the W&C, small stations, etc). The reality sometimes is that building new is best regardless of what was done before - something the City & South London did when they abandoned their original King William Street Terminus after just 10 years with the abandoned tunnels never having found another transport use despite them technically representing a 'useful asset' running under London 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted May 1, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 1, 2017 True Phil, but as environmental permissions go, it's easier to re-use an existing, already disturbed site in an "area of natural beauty" then obtaining licences to disturb some more. Remember that the Woodhead was built there for a reason: it was the most convenient way across the high ground separating 2 blossoming cities, so sooner or later it'll be re-used for rail transport anyway. In which case, it's probably cheaper to start digging soon, as borrowing the money required is now cheapest as it'll ever be! Heck, investors actually pay you so you would borrow their money! Ah but from a legislative point of view, whether you rebuild / reuse or dig new tunnels at Woodhead, the same legislative process is exactly the same. I agree that the corridor itself does present an ideal one for a new east west railway across the Pennines (the same is true with respect to a decent road to give better access to Sheffield and provide backup / relief to the M62) - the question is how to go about it. In todays more environmentally conscious age, that has come to mean more extensive tunnelling than the terrain strictly requires (precisely to hide said infrastructure) which may mean Woodhead itself is no longer the best place to start going underground - particularly if it is going to involve lots of spoil removal / construction traffic. Given the amount of construction resources HS2 is going to start needing in a few years time, plus other sorely needed infrastructure enhancements to our current transport networks, the availability of 'cheap money' at present doesn't make much difference as thats not the constraining factor. There is also the little matter of the extensive legislative process to go through - which no doubt will be long drawn out by the eco brigade, so I cannot foresee anything happening for another decade at least. When the time does come, it could be we get a combined high speed railway and road joint package (to take advantage of construction synergies) - which may or may not go via Woodhead. As an aside there is actually no such things as 'natural beauty', because humans have been busy altering the landscape to suit for centuries - drystone walls or open moorland only exist in the first place due to the evolution from hunter gatherers to farmers in the ancient past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted May 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1, 2017 What a shame no more narrow gauge! Would it be possible to lay a pair of tracks over the cables in the new bore? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted May 1, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 1, 2017 (edited) What a shame no more narrow gauge! Would it be possible to lay a pair of tracks over the cables in the new bore? The cables through the old tunnel were maintained using a narrow gauge railway with IIRC the stock stabled at Dunford Bridge but the rails did emerge into the daylight at the Woodhead end. I have no idea if the same system is used in the 'new' tunnel. From memory (not brilliant these days according to SWMBO) the cables in the old tunnel were in a concrete trench with water flowing through it for cooling. Jamie Edited May 1, 2017 by jamie92208 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 This is a wonderful topic, and I'll never grow tired of looking at your great photographs. Never saw an EM1 in action although through the mist one morning I saw some lined up at Wath over a weekend whilst I went on a Saturday saver to York for Deltic haulage (York to Donny). I did manage to get the 76's on Guide Bridge and Reddish the Christmas after withdrawal, it never travelled it. Having gotten into a fight at school with a lad who was on one of the last rail tours and had a spare, which duly went to someone with no interest in railways. Lol kids eh? However I am glad to say that after xx amount of years I'm about to do some of the line for the first time between Sheffield and Stocksbridge in June on a rail tour, and I am so looking forward to it. Meanwhile, can some kind soul, either post me here or pm me, a screen shot of wath from google watch and point on it where the road bridge, head shunt and shed was in relation to today's map? I'd like to try and hunt out some of the remains, however little left, there is always something. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted May 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1, 2017 The cables through the old tunnel were maintained using a narrow gauge railway with IIRC the stock stabled at Dunford Bridge but the rails did emerge into the daylight at the Woodhead end. I have no idea if the same system is used in the 'new' tunnel. From memory (not brilliant these days according to SWMBO) the cables in the old tunnel were in a concrete trench with water flowing through it for cooling. Jamie It looks like the new cables are under the deck of the new tunnel and due to the size of the new bore a road vehicle could be used if maintenance is required. I had no idea things had moved on so much up there. Shame the didn't run some farewell specials on the narrow gauge as I believe they have run specials before Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Some interesting info here. http://www2.nationalgrid.com/UK/In-your-area/Projects/Woodhead-Tunnel/ https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/woodhead-tunnels http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-24821652 http://savethewoodheadtunnel.blogspot.co.uk/ What a silly country we live in. Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim76 Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Very silly - or sad depending on how you look at it. In the words of the narrator on the Woodhead Route video: 'Whatever happened to one of British Railways greatest post-war achievements?'... or something like that... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJGraphics Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Very silly - or sad depending on how you look at it. In the words of the narrator on the Woodhead Route video: 'Whatever happened to one of British Railways greatest post-war achievements?'... or something like that... Politicians is what happened! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Politicians is what happened! Well, certain ones...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted May 3, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 3, 2017 There's a piece in this months Railway Magazine (Woodhead Memories) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyboy Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 This is a wonderful topic, and I'll never grow tired of looking at your great photographs. Never saw an EM1 in action although through the mist one morning I saw some lined up at Wath over a weekend whilst I went on a Saturday saver to York for Deltic haulage (York to Donny). I did manage to get the 76's on Guide Bridge and Reddish the Christmas after withdrawal, it never travelled it. Having gotten into a fight at school with a lad who was on one of the last rail tours and had a spare, which duly went to someone with no interest in railways. Lol kids eh? Perhaps you could make up for it by making an N gauge Class 76. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted May 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2017 Article about the chapel at Crowden and the Woodhead navvies in this week's local paper. https://glossopchronicle.co.uk/2017/05/local-history-woodheads-forgotten-tragedy/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonhermes Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Thanks SignalEngineer.I have a card kit of a chapel that could be adapted to this chapel. I'm also lucky enough to have a 42' long dry man-cave under my house in Turkey where I'm starting a 4' x 42' of Woodhead Tunnels (8' with in-tunnel timed stops) in OO with Woodhead to Crowden on one side and Dundord Bridge to Hazlehead/Hepworth on the other. (At the ends the Mains re tunnel around back up and into 2 dumbbells above and inside the high Woodhead Tunnel.Luckily all short platforms.Changeover day 1954 means I can run everything from 1500V and anything in steam/diesel both before and after as well as 7 coach long passenger trains. Crowden Station is the place with the least info and pics so Im grateful for anything I can get from 1954 and before! Anyone else got anything? Appreciated in advance... Chris 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 9, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2017 On Grandad duty for the football last Saturday. The venue is in Gorton right next to where Reddish Electric Depot used to be. This is the view from where I was watching A screen shot of Google Earth. I was about where the pin is and the red line is the direction of view. The outline area is where the depot was and the inner rectangle is the approximate position of the building. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 So the chance of it reopening is quite remote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 (edited) Ah, but never say never! Although having the Starbucks and Sainsbury's buildings obstructing the trackbed a bit further west (Wilmslow Rd) is not exactly helpful... It's more the two blocks of flats on the trackbed between Wellington Rd and Wilmslow road that is the real blocker - there is actually a void below Sainsburys. To think I used to play in the goods yard, explore the remains of the station all those years ago, another life it feels now. Edited October 9, 2017 by woodenhead Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Going from Reddish towards Withington the line is now a cycle way before it meets up with the tram line ( Metrolink ) . From the depot towards Withington the first obstruction is were the Coal yard was at Longsight/Gorton is now a housing estate. The track bed from here has been raised till it goes under Stockport Road (Levenshulme station ) then back to the cycle way till it meets a doctors and the Car park at Sainsburys Withington before back to the cycleway till it meets the trams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted October 9, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2017 About 90 degrees opposite this then? 31.10.82. Mike. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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