Great Model Railway Challenge - Channel 5

[Captain Kernow]

Were they using Windows ?

 

...R

I think there were some in their factory building.

[Scale7JB]

Hi all, very disappointed by some of the earlier negative comments, don't let them bring the rest of us down though.

 

However, onwards and upwards.

 

At the begining of the program it suggests that the 'the final' layout will be exhibited at the UK's most prestigious railway show, or something like that. Is this likely to be Warley? If so its going to be a very busy event!

 

JB.

[timbowilts]

I

Hi all, very disappointed by some of the earlier negative comments, don't let them bring the rest of us down though.

However, onwards and upwards.

At the begining of the program it suggests that the 'the final' layout will be exhibited at the UK's most prestigious railway show, or something like that. Is this likely to be Warley? If so its going to be a very busy event!

JB.

I would expect it to be Warley although it could be Ally Pally? One thing to bear in mind is the involvement of Peco so this could influence which one.

 

Tim T

[RJS1977]

Peco have already indicated in RM that the winning layout will be on their stand at Warley.

[jonny777]

I am beginning to notice a gulf opening up in the series. I hesitate to say it is the elite modellers vs those who just play trains, but that is how it appears to me as a viewer. 

 

If this is true, then it is a shame because it is the general public who need to be convinced of the merits of modelling (no pun intended) and in these hi-tech days they need to be entertained almost constantly. I'm not sure that excellent scenic backgrounds and attention to small details are going to achieve that on a regular basis when pitched against far more active alternatives but with lesser build quality.  

[RJS1977]

The winning team definitely had the most accomplished layout, and it seemed to work the best. So no arguments there.

 

On the other hand, it also seemed as though their interpretation of the pre-build rule was at least as liberal as Missenden's who got slated for it by the judges - though perhaps that's editing giving me that impression, and the link to the theme was exactly what Steve Flint said it was - rubbish.

 

Missenden - despite their number of pre-builds - presented an unfinished layout with track unballasted, screws showing etc. The judges downgraded their score based on this.

 

Fawley appeared to have presented a completed layout.

 

It could also be that the other teams in Missenden's heat raised a complaint with the judges regarding Missenden's number of pre-built items and Fawley did not.

[Andy Y]

I am beginning to notice a gulf opening up in the series. I hesitate to say it is the elite modellers vs those who just play trains, but that is how it appears to me as a viewer. 

 

If this is true, then it is a shame because it is the general public who need to be convinced of the merits of modelling (no pun intended) and in these hi-tech days they need to be entertained almost constantly. I'm not sure that excellent scenic backgrounds and attention to small details are going to achieve that on a regular basis when pitched against far more active alternatives but with lesser build quality.  

 

i wouldn't say it is true, it's just that the teams have displayed a wide range of approaches that we do actually see within the hobby. It's already evident individual viewers have different preferences as to which layouts they personally feel are best.

[Phil Parker]

Peco have already indicated in RM that the winning layout will be on their stand at Warley.

 

No, as posted earlier in the thread, the Peco stand will have the Basingstoke layout, the winner will be on the Bachmann stand:

 

http://news.Bachmann.co.uk/2018/10/Bachmann-products-as-seen-on-screen/

[Phil Parker]

I am beginning to notice a gulf opening up in the series. I hesitate to say it is the elite modellers vs those who just play trains, but that is how it appears to me as a viewer. 

 

If this is true, then it is a shame because it is the general public who need to be convinced of the merits of modelling (no pun intended) and in these hi-tech days they need to be entertained almost constantly. I'm not sure that excellent scenic backgrounds and attention to small details are going to achieve that on a regular basis when pitched against far more active alternatives but with lesser build quality.  

 

Huh? I see no gulf, just a wide variety of styles. What do you see that makes you think there is a gulf?

[Ian Morgan]

The 'Santa' layout from the Heat will be on the Peco stand.

[Ohmisterporter]

Did anyone else notice that, so far, the team that won the scratchbuild challenge then went on to win the heat?

 

The extra points awarded for the scratchbuild challenge may be enough to make a difference, so refusing to take part is a bad idea. It would help if viewers knew the scoring system and points awarded for each phase of judging.

['CHARD]

I think if they do a second series they could have a celebrity judge thrown in. Who would you choose? If you fancy the idea that is lol. 

 

Carol Kirkwood.

 

 

The other thing that got me thinking is that it seems that Hornby and Bachmann can't afford adverts in the programmes (maybe they're saving up for one in the final?)...but thanks to the competition the Ravenglass and Eskdale get two adverts per programme...

 

If only the voice-over didn't pronounce it Exdale.     EDIT: now seen Mike mention this in post #1258, sorry!

 

Regarding Hornby or Bachmann advertising during the breaks, this will clearly be about value for money (subtly different from affordability).  Apart from driving traffic to their respective websites (and there's possibly limited evidence that an advert would make this happen any more than the programme itself), it's unclear what the message would be other than 'find a retail outlet.'  As a relatively 'immature' hobby in televisual terms, it's difficult to see how a manufacturer would position or storyboard an advert to run during GMRC episodes.

Edited October 29, 2018 by 'CHARD

[Phil Parker]

Regarding Hornby or Bachmann advertising during the breaks, this will clearly be about value for money (subtly different from affordability).  Apart from driving traffic to their respective websites (and there's possibly limited evidence that an advert would make this happen any more than the programme itself), it's unclear what the message would be other than 'find a retail outlet.'  As a relatively 'immature' hobby in televisual terms, it's difficult to see how a manufacturer would position or storyboard an advert to run during GMRC episodes.

 

Bachmann take very little advertising as they deliberately don't have their own retail channel. Hornby has advertised in the past, but it's terrifically expensive to grab TV airtime. You not only have to pay for the slot, but you also have to produce an advert to the very strict standards required by the TV company. Martin from the BRM film crew, who has done this in previous jobs, did explain the process and it's pretty exacting. Yes, you can pay someone to do it for you, but the bill would be scary for a company not over-encumbered with cash at the moment.

[Scale7JB]

No, as posted earlier in the thread, the Peco stand will have the Basingstoke layout, the winner will be on the Bachmann stand:

 

http://news.Bachmann.co.uk/2018/10/Bachmann-products-as-seen-on-screen/

Thanks Phil, even busier for our layouts first outing at Warley then 'if' the TV show mentions the Warley show.

 

JB.

[sharris]

"Celebrity judge..."

 

Carol Kirkwood.

.

 

She could score the teams on the quality of their weathering. 

[Robin2]

Missenden - despite their number of pre-builds - presented an unfinished layout with track unballasted, screws showing etc. The judges downgraded their score based on this.

 

Fawley appeared to have presented a completed layout.

 

If there is a second series I reckon there should be no permission for pre-built items. Apart from Andy Laurie Calvert (who planned to use foam ballast and a flat scene)  there seems to have been no thought given by any of the teams about how to conceive a project that can be completed in the available time. And Andy Laurie fell down (IMHO) by not having pre-schooled his team members in the required skills. Also, for example the idea of building several van kits during the competition seems ridiculous to me - why not just spray paint some ready-made vans.

 

If everything had to be done within the limited competition time it should focus minds - as well as removing scope for controversy.

 

...R

Edited October 29, 2018 by Andy Y
Name corrections

['CHARD]

Hornby has advertised in the past, but it's terrifically expensive to grab TV airtime. You not only have to pay for the slot, but you also have to produce an advert to the very strict standards required by the TV company. Martin from the BRM film crew, who has done this in previous jobs, did explain the process and it's pretty exacting. Yes, you can pay someone to do it for you, but the bill would be scary for a company not over-encumbered with cash at the moment.

 

You've nailed it there, Phil. 

 

To me, it would be the equivalent of the manufacturers of the proving ovens and artisan herb growers attempting to grab a piece of action during the Bake-off - simply not viable or feasible.

[sharris]

If there is a second series I reckon there should be no permission for pre-built items. Apart from Andy Laurie Calvert (who planned to use foam ballast and a flat scene)  there seems to have been no thought given by any of the teams about how to conceive a project that can be completed in the available time. And Andy Laurie fell down (IMHO) by not having pre-schooled his team members in the required skills. Also, for example the idea of building several van kits during the competition seems ridiculous to me - why not just spray paint some ready-made vans.

 

If everything had to be done within the limited competition time it should focus minds - as well as removing scope for controversy.

 

...R

 

It would cost more in production, and in leave days for the contestants, but I think it would definitely be fairer if all teams just start with bare boards on day 1 and extend the competition sessions by a day. I think there has been some comment earlier that some teams just didn't have space to set up the boards to pre-lay track prior to the competition days.  

[Robin2]

It would cost more in production, 

Not if there was the same 24 hours for working on the layouts.

 

Layout builders will always produce reasons for needing more time. The trick is to get the best from what is available.

 

And if the 24 hours really is not enough then give them another 8 hours in the competition room without any cameras - and at the start of the program proper show us what they had achieved in that pre-filming period.

 

...R

Edited October 29, 2018 by Robin2

[hayfield]

The extra points awarded for the scratchbuild challenge may be enough to make a difference, so refusing to take part is a bad idea. It would help if viewers knew the scoring system and points awarded for each phase of judging.

 

 

Good TV though and they did start the scratch building challenge, I think we might be making something out of this program which it is not. Its a light people watching program

 

Now what might be interesting is if a second series was planned, firstly the TV makers would have a better idea what ideas/formats worked,a different type of prospective builders may well come forward. Look at how Strictly come dancing has evolved from the first series, or some programs personalities flock to be in. The question being if a second series be commissioned would the format be more or less to the liking of serious modellers ?

[Mallard60022]

I reckon it could be good to have a short item in one of the last shows showing how a model layout/diorama has been used in a popular TV Programme (was it Ripper Street that had one?) or famous film (can't think of one off hand) or maybe encourage youngsters to do a layout based on that Tom Hanks thing Polar Express, or adults into other hobbies to do a WW1 or WW2 depiction where other models can be introduced (as have many posters on RMW). This might have been done at the beginning of this series but I didn't see that?

Just to get young people to create things in 3D these days would appear to be tough with the competition from 2D Media gaming, but what do I know?

Phil

[Mallard60022]

I think there should be a bit more focus on reality, say give the teams a location to model..

 

This could allow cameras to visit the real locations, and see how they are incorporated into the model.

It neednt be all modern, they could pick preserved railways to.

 

The other aspect i’d like to see is a bit more emphasis on stock, so far weve and mis-match of guff.

 

I suspect we’ve seen the winning layout on the show already, if it is, then it met the criteria i suggested.

Actually that is a great idea. The viewers experience of railways may be limited to a heritage Thomas day or maybe a 'special Dining Train' and then the current scene. The latter could also include a lot of work for Bus enthusiasts. Plenty of scope to recreate something they actually have experienced rather than something that was seen many years ago. There are a lot of people that model the contemporary scene so there could be 'mentors' (carefully seleced?) to support a novice team? 

Phil

[Andy Y]

 so far weve mostly had any mis-match of guff on most layouts, wi

 

I'd say the Fawley and Walford (apart from the 350 but they covered that) teams had a reasonably representative stock stable.

[Phil Parker]

I think there should be a bit more focus on reality, say give the teams a location to model..

 

This could allow cameras to visit the real locations, and see how they are incorporated into the model.

It neednt be all modern, they could pick preserved railways to.

Theres any number of diaormas out there that could be used, large and small.

 

After selecting a location, the teams could ID a parts list ahead of filming, and focus less on time to build, but more on quality / accuracy and bonus for intricacies.

 

The other aspect i’d like to see is a bit more emphasis on stock, so far weve mostly had any mis-match of guff on most layouts, with even some better layouts putting out trainset quality formations.

 

I suspect we’ve seen the winning layout on the show already, and a few comments have suggested which it is, so, then it met the criteria above, which would set the bar for a second series.

 

There speaks someone who has never taken a film crew out before. The BRM guys can fill a people-mover with equipment just for a DVD shoot! We once had to explain how all the gubbins was going in the guard's compartment as it would have filled the loco footplate we were filming on. "You can bring one camera and that is ALL"....

 

Wouldn't the idea result in three identical looking layouts? The current format means you get 3 very different interpretations of the theme, which looks better on TV. 

[Phil Parker]

Good TV though and they did start the scratch building challenge, I think we might be making something out of this program which it is not. Its a light people watching program

 

Now what might be interesting is if a second series was planned, firstly the TV makers would have a better idea what ideas/formats worked,a different type of prospective builders may well come forward. Look at how Strictly come dancing has evolved from the first series, or some programs personalities flock to be in. The question being if a second series be commissioned would the format be more or less to the liking of serious modellers ?

 

This is spot on. Series 2 would see a production team with a much better idea of how things will work, and better prepared teams who understand what they need to do.

 

I've said this before, Bake Off was a VERY different series on its first outing to what you see now. GMRC is an enjoyable show, but it will mature, just not into MRJ TV.