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Revolution Class 313 and 314 in N


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6 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

The 315s have a very limited sphere of operation for their entire working lives compared to the 313s which have spread to rather unlikely places. The same could be said of the the 314s to some extent, they do not require any extra tooling as they are basically 313s without the DC equipment. A 315 would require tooling up and addition vehicle in the shape of the TSO.

 

Still, maybe RevolutioN will produce a 315 down the line, even if it is not part of the initial offering.

 

4 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

I would guess it might come if the 507/508 is done later. Those would also need the same type of inner to make the fourth coach of the 315.

 

And some super unrealistic wishful thinking from me....

 

If we had the trailer car for a 315/508 etc, coupled with Revs experience of producing a mk3 bodyshell unit (ie the 321) then perhaps we might one day see a 455/7!

I know, I know, never gonna happen.  But I can dream....

 

Paul

 

 

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7 hours ago, JR_P said:

I like the Coastway 313s - they are in much better condition inside and out than the GN 313s - the latter are really shabby these days! That said, I’ve got some photos of exquisitely graffitied GN 313s :D !!!

 

One of Hornsey's engineers came down to Brighton a while back and was reported as saying that compared with the GN ex FCC 313's, the Coastway ones were effectively factory fresh!!

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20 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

The 315s have a very limited sphere of operation for their entire working lives compared to the 313s which have spread to rather unlikely places. The same could be said of the the 314s to some extent, they do not require any extra tooling as they are basically 313s without the DC equipment. A 315 would require tooling up and addition vehicle in the shape of the TSO.

 

Still, maybe RevolutioN will produce a 315 down the line, even if it is not part of the initial offering.

 

The 314/315 PTS share the same bosyshell, this differes from the 313 PTS which has one less window.

 

Also the 314/315 DMS have the same roof vents as later 313, which are different from earler 313.

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1 hour ago, Bomag said:

Also the 314/315 DMS have the same roof vents as later 313, which are different from earler 313.

Interesting - I thought all the 313s were built as a single batch to a standard design - what running numbers are in which 313 batch? I think I’m correct in saying that ‘as-built’ there was no sub-class - they were all simply 3130xx.

 

Train roofs are a curious thing though - as a member of the travelling public, you nearly never see them.... but on a model, especially in N gauge, that is probably most of what you see, as I’m pretty sure most of us view our trains from an angle from above and almost never directly side-on.

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I lived at Welwyn Garden City when the 313s were introduced. I was aware of the larger roof vents on the earliest members of the fleet, which could even be seen from viewing on the platform. Someone will know which numbers had/have the much larger vents. Back in 1977 I made a static 313 from three MTk Mk 2 coach kits reusing the sides with chamfered ends, and inset doorways,  floor and gangway ends suitably reshaped.The sides were plasticard and the ends were a built up plasticard set up with a clear base shaped to fit the MTK chamfered end. Wish I knew where it went. In 1977 I started in French N and have stayed with it for 42 years, though I have a lot of modern UK stuff too now largely inspired by RevolutioN’s model choices.

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Hello all,

 

We haven’t yet fully scoped these out, but I suspect it’s unlikely we’ll be able to offer different roof vents. 

 

When were the original ones changed?

 

Cheers

 

Ben A. 

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On 19/09/2019 at 15:13, JR_P said:

Not heard anyone calling for a 315 - no one ever seems interested in GEML or WAML stock.... I grew up traveling into Liverpool Street (and KX).... got a soft spot for all things East Anglian....

 

 

My interest is very much GEML, but to be honest I'd still happily buy a 313 or two in NSE livery to "masquerade" as a 315! 

 

Likewise with the RevolutioN 321s - with the various first Great Eastern / NXEA liveries not going ahead, I think the NSE livery models and numbers depicted are strictly suitable for the WCML only? I've still got several on order in any case!

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32 minutes ago, Ben A said:

We haven’t yet fully scoped these out, but I suspect it’s unlikely we’ll be able to offer different roof vents. 

When were the original ones changed?

I recall seeing Silverlink ones at Stratford in the late '90s (when the Jubilee Line extension was under construction) which had the altered roofs.

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8 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

The large vents were later replaced with the smaller type but there were very obvious weld lines where they had to fill in the big holes removing the big vents left in the roof.

 

I remember the large vents. Gave the units special character. I was living in Hornsey, as a student, about the time they were introduced.

 

If RevolutioN produce them with small vents, perhaps a separate accessory sprue could be provided to stick big vents over the little ones???

Edited by Joseph_Pestell
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Funnily enough I was thinking that would be a possibility when I was making the post. For one with the big vents replaced you could make a template and score the 'weld seams' in with a knife (not quite R-T-R territory though).

Edited by BernardTPM
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All this talk of roof vents made me curious.... I’ve found an example online of BR blue/grey from 1985.... gotta say, those vents stand very proud of the roofline - certainly would have been able to see them standing on the platform! I don’t remember seeing the 313 like that when I was growing up in the late 80s and 90s, so I reckon the change must have been made by then.... of course, my childhood memories could be playing tricks on me!!!

 

That aside, I quite liked the idea [above] of sticking the larger vents over the smaller ones, thus enabling all versions to be accurately depicted.... although that sounds pretty labour intensive (read ‘expensive’) if the factory have to do it :wacko: ! Maybe an item to include ‘in the box’ for individuals to affix, should they so choose....?

 

Notwithstanding, BR blue/grey is well before my period of interest, so some kind of compromise around the roof vents probably wouldn’t affect my desired liveries (FCC and NR) I’d guess.

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20 hours ago, JR_P said:

All this talk of roof vents made me curious.... I’ve found an example online of BR blue/grey from 1985.... gotta say, those vents stand very proud of the roofline - certainly would have been able to see them standing on the platform! I don’t remember seeing the 313 like that when I was growing up in the late 80s and 90s, so I reckon the change must have been made by then.... of course, my childhood memories could be playing tricks on me!!!

 

That aside, I quite liked the idea [above] of sticking the larger vents over the smaller ones, thus enabling all versions to be accurately depicted.... although that sounds pretty labour intensive (read ‘expensive’) if the factory have to do it :wacko: ! Maybe an item to include ‘in the box’ for individuals to affix, should they so choose....?

 

Notwithstanding, BR blue/grey is well before my period of interest, so some kind of compromise around the roof vents probably wouldn’t affect my desired liveries (FCC and NR) I’d guess.

Something like this?

es grüßt

pc

 

Network Rail: Stations: New Southgate

 

Edited by Padishar Creel
The photo is from Flickr, credit goes to the photographer
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Interesting picture of the fire ravaged New Southgate there, the fire occured in 1976 when the first 313's were arriving and you can just make out the short lived external passenger door handles that were a dismal failure.  Presumably the yellow and white stickers on the windows were instructions for same?

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6 hours ago, Mike Harvey said:

Can anyone confirm that not all of the GN fleet had the large vents when new? 

As a fellow ex WGCite of the era you’re correct, I don’t know the fleet numbers and I think it was more than half with small vents, but certainly as early as 313019 mid summer 1980. 313006 was still sporting the large vents at that time, and in the images I found 313002 still had large vents in NSE livery in 1988. (I need to get out more).

I’ve sent @Ben A the references via messenger as they’re copyrighted.

Edited by PMP
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Possibly only the first 10 or 11 had large vents perhaps?

 

009 B/G Large vents - 1985

010 NSE Large Vent, no date but unit is NLL branded so prob post ‘90

Can’t find decent pic of 011

012 Small Vents B/G - 1985

013 Small vent B/G - no date

 

So there were small vented Blue/Grey units about, just needs careful number selection.

 

One useful thing might be to have an easily removeable NRN Pod for those wishing to model the early life.

 

Regards,

Paul

Edited by bigP
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7 minutes ago, bigP said:

Possibly only the first 10 or 11 had large vents perhaps?

 

009 B/G Large vents - 1985

010 NSE Large Vent, no date but unit is NLL branded so prob post ‘90

Can’t find decent pic of 011

012 Small Vents B/G - 1985

013 Small vent B/G - no date

 

So there were small vented Blue/Grey units about, just needs careful number selection.

 

One useful thing might be to have an easily removeable NRN Pod for those wishing to model the early life.

 

Regards,

Paul


The big thing that strikes me from all this photo evidence (especially the earlier shot against the ruins of New Southgate), is just how sleek and modern these units look. 
 

Paul

 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, bigP said:

Possibly only the first 10 or 11 had large vents perhaps?

 

009 B/G Large vents - 1985

010 NSE Large Vent, no date but unit is NLL branded so prob post ‘90

Can’t find decent pic of 011

012 Small Vents B/G - 1985

013 Small vent B/G - no date

 

So there were small vented Blue/Grey units about, just needs careful number selection.

 

One useful thing might be to have an easily removeable NRN Pod for those wishing to model the early life.

 

Regards,

Paul

I was told when training on them back in 1992 that the first ten had the larger roof vents. The original design tried to use heat from the dynamic braking to heat the passenger saloon. However, the design was changed quite quickly but the original 10 retained their larger vents associated with the design and they were still evident in the early 90’s when they were pointed out to me. The North London Fleet didn’t get much cosmetic attention as keeping enough in service to run the timetable was a struggle at this time. When Silverlink livery was applied a fair bit of work was done, this might have been the time the vents went but I can’t be sure. The NLL fleet also had extra 3rd rail shoe beams to allow them to cope with the larger 3rd Rail gaps on the system. 

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51 minutes ago, Fenman said:

Can’t find decent pic of 011

I found a really good photo of 011 in NSE from overhead, dated 1989, so at the very least, we can say for certain it spent at least half of its NSE life with small vents.... but there appears to be a corroborative picture emerging that it might only have been the first ten 313 examples in any case....

 

.... which of course would explain why people were seeing NLL post-privatisation (albeit in NSE livery) with large vents because a) 313001 - 313017 + 019 and 020 were cascaded to NLL, therefore half of the NLL fleet did have the large vents.... and b) the NLL fleet didn’t get much attention or upgrades.... hence why there are photos about of NLL 313s in the late 90s with large vents....

 

So, as someone else mentions, careful running number selection will obviate this issue entirely.... jeez, who’d make model trains eh.... :rofl_mini: ?!!!

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1 hour ago, JohnDMJ said:

313 201 (current livery) and 313 202 both DCC Sound would be good although not sure about authentic door buzzers!

 

The terrible door bleeping sound they now have can probably be obtained from a Tesco Value toy Ambulance...

 

Be aware if going down the sound route, the Southern ones have at least three different patterns or tones of beeps...

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