BBC condones railway trespass

[caradoc]

Browsing the BBC News website this morning, amid all the doom and gloom I was pleased to see a feature, 'Your pictures on the theme of railways', and there are some nice photos there:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-51658551

 

However, there is also a picture of a woman pushing a bicycle along a quite substantial bridge, with the caption 'Cycling in France, the route took us over a railway bridge." There is no explanation of what is meant by route, but there is track on the bridge and it looks for all the world to be an operational line. It therefore appears that the BBC is quite happy to publicise and condone trespassing on railway lines. I have complained to the BBC and asked them to remove the picture; We will see what happens now.

 

[sandwich station]

7 minutes ago, caradoc said:

However, there is also a picture of a woman pushing a bicycle along a quite substantial bridge, with the caption 'Cycling in France, the route took us over a railway bridge." There is no explanation of what is meant by route, but there is track on the bridge and it looks for all the world to be an operational line. It therefore appears that the BBC is quite happy to publicise and condone trespassing on railway lines. I have complained to the BBC and asked them to remove the picture; We will see what happens now.

 

 

The rails look rather rusty. I would suspect it's a disused line.

[Oldddudders]

France has plenty of lines long abandoned and with much infrastructure in place. Some are used as recreational trails, with rail-borne tricycles. The strict laws in UK  about fencing the right-of-way are not mirrored everywhere worldwide. 

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

France has plenty of lines long abandoned and with much infrastructure in place. Some are used as recreational trails, with rail-borne tricycles. The strict laws in UK  about fencing the right-of-way are not mirrored everywhere worldwide. 

IIRC, some of the lines with 'Velo-rails' also have (very) occasional freight services; presumably, the dates and times of these are communicated well in advance. I wonder where that bridge is; it looks to be traversing quite a large river.

[caradoc]

4 hours ago, sandwich station said:

 

The rails look rather rusty. I would suspect it's a disused line.

 

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

France has plenty of lines long abandoned and with much infrastructure in place. Some are used as recreational trails, with rail-borne tricycles. The strict laws in UK  about fencing the right-of-way are not mirrored everywhere worldwide. 

 

Quite possibly in both cases, (or possibly not) but either way the casual visitor to the BBC website would have no way of knowing that.

[Steamport Southport]

I like the monkey's expression. 

 

 

 

Jason

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hi there,

 

I think you’re over-reacting.  The caption makes it clear that the bridge is in France, and that the cycling route took them over the bridge purposely.

 

More interesting in my view is the lovely photo of a Blue Pullman on John Spence’s Melton Mowbray North layout pictured at Model Rail Scotland last weekend in Glasgow.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[caradoc]

2 minutes ago, Ben A said:

 

Hi there,

 

I think you’re over-reacting.  The caption makes it clear that the bridge is in France, and that the cycling route took them over the bridge purposely.

 

More interesting in my view is the lovely photo of a Blue Pullman on John Spence’s Melton Mowbray North layout pictured at Model Rail Scotland last weekend in Glasgow.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

I disagree Ben; The caption just says 'the route' without mentioning whether it is authorised or not, and the presence of sleepers, rails etc suggests that a train could appear at any time. Every time a magazine features a photoshoot with models posing on a railway line objections are rightly raised in the railway press, and by railway staff, and this is no different.

 

However, as an ex-railwayman, part of whose job was to take emergency radio calls from Drivers whose train had just struck someone, perhaps I am inclined to 'over-react'.

 

[Ben B]

Quote

The rails look rather rusty. I would suspect it's a disused line.

 

Yeah, but I've seen people get caught out like that on the Cambrian Coast, which in places has rusty rails and tracks covered in greenery and drifting sands, and neglected-looking bridges.  I had a right row with a tourist fisherman about 8 years ago when I was waiting to photograph a train, and he climbed a fence to stroll over a bridge.  Wouldn't believe me it was an open line...

[Revolution Ben]

1 hour ago, caradoc said:

 

However, as an ex-railwayman, part of whose job was to take emergency radio calls from Drivers whose train had just struck someone, perhaps I am inclined to 'over-react'.

 

 

Hi there,

 

I have enormous sympathy for any driver who goes through such an obviously horrific experience, as well as for those who have to deal with the result.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[ess1uk]

On 01/03/2020 at 14:38, Ben B said:

 

Yeah, but I've seen people get caught out like that on the Cambrian Coast, which in places has rusty rails and tracks covered in greenery and drifting sands, and neglected-looking bridges.  I had a right row with a tourist fisherman about 8 years ago when I was waiting to photograph a train, and he climbed a fence to stroll over a bridge.  Wouldn't believe me it was an open line...

I found a woman walking along the track on the Cambrian whilst I was working there.

she had just got off a train and walked off the platform!

[Andy Hayter]

On 01/03/2020 at 08:48, caradoc said:

It therefore appears that the BBC is quite happy to publicise and condone trespassing on railway lines. I have complained to the BBC and asked them to remove the picture; We will see what happens now.

 

 

There is no law of trespass in France.  Therefore the BBC is condoning nothing.

 

As already stated there are many many lines that have been abandoned and converted in part or completely to rights of way.  Track is not always removed before this happens. 

 

In addition to the comments about the rusting of the railhead, it seems to be a very  light gauge of steel (secondary system at best) laid on wood sleepers of inconsistent length (again a sign of a very old section of track from a very secondary line) and badly eroded (signs of abandonment probably - but not always )

 

So without knowing a precise location it is impossible to make any judgemental statements about what is happening in this shot.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Andy Hayter
typo

[dibber25]

This is an impossible topic to judge. We, in Britain are far more sensitive to this issue than most other countries. We have railways which have to be fenced on every inch and there is a clear law of trespass which applies the wrong side of that fence. Nevertheless trespass and suicide remain the biggest killers on Britain's railways. I had this debate several years ago with a nephew who took a photo of himself and his kids walking a disused railway line near their home in Canada. Hi-rails and brush cutters were still in use on that line but I failed to convince him of any danger in what they were doing. True, due to the number of grade crossings there would be a lot of noise if a train was nearby and the speed limit was very low but even so, I could not convince him that posting such a photo might be tempting some other kids to go on a railway where trespass was much more unsafe. I'm afraid we can't graft our natural caution and risk aversion onto other cultures. (CJL)

[Steamport Southport]

48 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

There is no law of trespass in France.  Therefore the BBC is condoning nothing.

 

As already stated there are many many lines that have been abandoned and converted in part or completely to rights of way.  Track is not always removed before this happens. 

 

In addition to the comments about the rusting of the railhead, it seems to be a very  light gauge of steel (secondary system at best) laid on wood sleepers of inconsistent length (again a sign of a very old section of track from a very secondary line) and badly eroded (signs of abandonment probably - but not always )

 

So without knowing a precise location it is impossible to make any judgemental statements about what is happening in this shot.

 

They were though. They were telling people to go out and do the same without any warning.

 

 

Doesn't matter what happens in France, that's a British website aimed at British people, often children.

 

"Oh look that girl is walking along a railway bridge. There's a bridge near me!".

 

You've just got to see the amounts of trespass at "The Harry Potter Bridge" AKA Glenfinnan Viaduct to realise that posting photographs of people walking along bridges is extremely irresponsible.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-39976271

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-17562658

 

They also have constant articles about "Urban Art" or graffiti to everyone else, and how wonderful it is. Which entails trespass and vandalism.

 

 

 

Jason

[Michael Hodgson]

Very much a British view.  Most of the world doesn't bother fencing lines (at least the lower speed ones) and takes the view that the train is bigger and heavier than you, so it's your own fault if you get knocked down. 

 

But trespass is also illegal in India.  They prosecute over 100,000 cases a year and it can carry a 6 month prison sentence. Then there's practices like riding on the roof (even on routes with OHLE).  However in practice it's the death penalty for about 10,000 a year.  

[Darius43]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

They were though. They were telling people to go out and do the same without any warning.

 

 

Doesn't matter what happens in France, that's a British website aimed at British people, often children.

 

"Oh look that girl is walking along a railway bridge. There's a bridge near me!".

 

You've just got to see the amounts of trespass at "The Harry Potter Bridge" AKA Glenfinnan Viaduct to realise that posting photographs of people walking along bridges is extremely irresponsible.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-39976271

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-17562658

 

They also have constant articles about "Urban Art" or graffiti to everyone else, and how wonderful it is. Which entails trespass and vandalism.

 

 

 

Jason

...makes me so angry, I want to throw the phone down!!!
 

Cheers

 

Darius

[caradoc]

3 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

There is no law of trespass in France.  Therefore the BBC is condoning nothing.

 

I would disagree, IMHO publishing this picture on an English-language UK website would mislead people to believe that trespassing on railways anywhere is acceptable.

 

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Most of the world doesn't bother fencing lines (at least the lower speed ones) and takes the view that the train is bigger and heavier than you, so it's your own fault if you get knocked down.

 

 

But regardless of whose fault it is, perhaps it is better, for all concerned, to prevent people getting onto the line in the first place.

 

[Andy Hayter]

So, by analogy, all of those BBC travelogue programs showing markets set up across rail lines and cleared as the train approaches in places as far flung as Vietnam. Mexico, Thailand and Peru should also be banned.

 

 

[DK123GWR]

It does strike me that British attitudes to railway tresspass do seem to be based on an overestimation of the risks. With due care and attention I don't see any reason why walking along the edge of the pway of a 60mph single track branch line (particularly a formerly double track line which has since been singled) should be any more dangerous than walking down a country road with a speed limit of 60mph. However, many people (myslef included) would have absolutely no concerns about doing the latter while not even contemplating the former.

[Phil Bullock]

21 minutes ago, DK123GWR said:

It does strike me that British attitudes to railway tresspass do seem to be based on an overestimation of the risks. With due care and attention I don't see any reason why walking along the edge of the pway of a 60mph single track branch line (particularly a formerly double track line which has since been singled) should be any more dangerous than walking down a country road with a speed limit of 60mph. However, many people (myslef included) would have absolutely no concerns about doing the latter while not even contemplating the former.

Hmmm....can a train driver take avoiding action?

[Michael Hodgson]

2 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

Hmmm....can a train driver take avoiding action?

... to jump or not to jump, that is the question.

[Rivercider]

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

So, by analogy, all of those BBC travelogue programs showing markets set up across rail lines and cleared as the train approaches in places as far flung as Vietnam. Mexico, Thailand and Peru should also be banned.

 

 

Not really, if the travelogue program is clearly about Vietnam, Mexico, Thailand or Peru.

 

In the original article I think that photo is the only one showing someone carrying out an act that would be illegal, or at the very least inappropriate, in this country. 

 

cheers

[DK123GWR]

Just now, Phil Bullock said:

Hmmm....can a train driver take avoiding action?

No, but on a former double track they most likely wouldn't need to, provided the walker was sticking to the edge. I would also suggest that there are enough distracted drivers that there would be at least one road vehicle driver unable to take evasive action for every train driver unable to do so. From a purely logical point of view I still don't see that the risk is any higher (though this is not consistent with my strong emotional aversion to railway tresspass). However, this discussion has sparked a (completely irrelevant) thought. On former double track branch lines which are unlikely to be redoubled (Chippenham to Trowbridge for instance) why not keep the railway to one former trackbed and install a joint cycle and footpath on the other. The Avon Valley Railway has a parallel cycle path, so could the same work on the national network? Does UK Prototype Discussions (not questions!) seem like the most suitable subforum for a new topic?

[dagrizz]

As previously stated, attitudes are different in other countries. I was taking pictures of trains next to a four track electrified main line just south of Breclav station (Czech Republic) two years ago and a couple of young women with their kids sat down on the grass nearby. One toddler went up to the nearest line and I was having kittens while keeping a lookout for trains. After a minute or so, the mother called the toddler back. 

 

 

Walking over working railways is an everyday thing there and I have other photos of adults doing this.

 

Graham

 

[caradoc]

16 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

So, by analogy, all of those BBC travelogue programs showing markets set up across rail lines and cleared as the train approaches in places as far flung as Vietnam. Mexico, Thailand and Peru should also be banned.

 

 

 

Fair enough, I give up. Tear down the fences, allow anyone to wander about our railways, don't bother stopping and cautioning trains when 'trespassers' are reported. So what if a few kids get killed ? 

 

Being serious, I would have found it quite acceptable had the BBC report included a mention that the line pictured was closed, and that trespass on operational railways is both illegal and dangerous.... but it did not. Neither did the BBC seem the slightest bit interested or concerned when I complained.