Exhibition cancellations (not much to do with that anymore!)

[Giles]

On the plus side, all the industries who rely on audiences and visitors including venues are working extremely hard themselves to devise ways to resume business in a safe and satisfactory way. It might not be exactly the same way,  but a lot of thought and effort is going into all this. After all, they too are businesses that need to survive. 

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, Giles said:

On the plus side, all the industries who rely on audiences and visitors including venues are working extremely hard themselves to devise ways to resume business in a safe and satisfactory way. It might not be exactly the same way,  but a lot of thought and effort is going into all this. After all, they too are businesses that need to survive. 

Glad to hear it but theatres etc can control the seated audience movement easier than a walk around show. The closest comparison to the concentration at a busy show is an indoor theme park / experience or major museum and they tend to have a more linear route through the exhibits, or are making it so at present, than the random paths we take at a model show. Herding cats with some people’s awkwardness about what they want to see and how long for springs to mind. 
Add to that 90-95% of our shows are organised by people in their own time and I’m not surprised we are still cancelling shows as trying to find out what you need to comply with on top of the uncertainty of local lockdowns is a big job and risk. 
The virtual versions of local shows we are seeing as replacements could also include a list of traders who were invited to help them out too as a goodwill gesture? 

Edited September 6, 2020 by PaulRhB
To clarify the point on virtual local shows

[TheQ]

11 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

 

 

A vaccine needs to pass many tests & be mass produced. There are plenty of chances for complications, all of which would cause a delay. Testing is the biggest concern: Supposing something is created that works. How long would it take to be 100% sure it has no long term side-effect? Things like this could be dangerous if it is rushed.

Any credible scientist would refuse to give an estimate on how long it will take to get a vaccine available because when it isn't on time, someone somewhere will dig out their quote about it.

An availability date for a vaccine at this time is therefore complete nonsense to feed the media. Take no notice of it.

 

 

 

All the major contenders of being a successful vaccine are already in mass production,  they are being made and stored ready to be released if they get approval. 

[cnw6847]

A lot of things happening now require visitors to be in a fixed position and prob more spaced than before.

Pubs, restaurants, cinemas, theatres type of venues.

 

The trouble with exhibitions is that the visitor is constantly on the move and often grouped around a small area i.e. a layout or trade stand.

 

Its very difficult to know what to do with exhibitions.

Our group show is usually in March and we use quite a compact hall that I don't think would be suitable at the moment.

We're holding on until prob early December before deciding what to do.

 

Hopefully if things remain stable over the next few months something positive maybe able to happen in the new year.

[Pete the Elaner]

11 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

I can!

 

I've learned to deal with this (lack of) lifestyle and reckon I can keep it up for a couple of years if necessary.

 

What may be a little more tricky, will be switching it off when I do judge it appropriate to do so.

 

John

 

 

I would say you are managing, not waiting.

& if a safe vaccine is never available, you will continue to manage, as will everyone else. Maybe not exactly as before, but somehow.

[Phil Parker]

45 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

The virtual shows we are seeing as replaced could also include adverts for those traders who were invited to help them out too as a goodwill gesture? 

 

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, it's a bit garbled, but if it is "the virtual shows should give free adverts to traders" then sorry, that's not going to happen. A virtual show still costs money to put on as most of the exhibits need significant staff time plus all the server and bandwidth costs. The Warners ones are also commercial events, just like the physical versions, and so need to bring in a bit of income to offset the loss of the real versions. We already provide plenty of services that don't make money, RMweb being just one, and the company pockets aren't infinitely deep.

 

There's also the real issue that if you give away infinite amounts of advertising, the show page becomes littered with promotion and RMweb fills up with people moaning about too many adverts.

[Phil Parker]

4 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I would say you are managing, not waiting.

& if a safe vaccine is never available, you will continue to manage, as will everyone else. Maybe not exactly as before, but somehow.

 

Like other businesses, if everyone hides away forever, there simply won't be anything to return too. When you return from your isolation, shops and venues will have closed. People will have lost their livelihoods (some sadly choosing to take a more permanent way out) and there won't be anything to return to.

 

Yes, we might manage, but as I'm finding this week trying to buy materials for a project, modelling without model railway exhibitions is a lot harder the modelling with them.

[PaulRhB]

5 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, it's a bit garbled, but if it is "the virtual shows should give free adverts to traders" then sorry, that's not going to happen

Sorry Phil I’m referring to the small virtual shows like we did for NGsouth not something like the much more organised RMweb version. I wasn’t meaning to suggest it for big operations who already have a web presence but it may help out some of the little local traders who support their local show. 
All I meant was to include a link to those traders who usually support the actual show. 
The Rmweb version is a show in itself with specially produced content not just a collection of pics and existing videos so a totally different animal. 

Edited September 6, 2020 by PaulRhB

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, RANGERS said:

Interesting that there seems to be a strong suggestion here that the future of shows has a heavy reliance on a vaccine. This isn’t something which is quite so apparent in other areas of leisure, our local eateries did a good trade during August, granted with some Govt aid, but it did intrigue me that a high proportion of the diners were in the over 55 bracket who are most definitely at highest risk and allegedly too scared to go out.
 

The measures taken to implement safe operating practices in this sector appear to have given enough customer confidence to get the over 55s back, but I don’t see anyone looking at practices to increase to confidence in exhibitions. The default is to cancel and wait for a vaccine.
 

Vaccines for any illness take an age to develop and even given the extraordinary pressures behind this one, won’t produce a meaningful result for some time. On this basis, we could be looking at 2025 before a vaccination regime alone offers a significant reduction in infection rates when safe working, and more critically strict adherence to them, have already made great strides in reducing the risk of infection.
 

Have any show organisers looked at practical measures which would allow shows to take place?

 

Measures have been out in place to make restaurants safer, but visiting them is still not risk-free. This may sound cold, but the government simply now considers the risk low enough to outweigh the financial problems caused by them remaining closed.

The government provided furlough to millions. This was not from some magic, unlimited source. It needs to be recovered & the only source is from taxes so they need to find ways to make many jobs safer.

 

The financial problems caused by exhibitions not running are far less. Venue staff & a few organisers of larger shows may be in difficulty but this is insignificant compared to the  number of people who were affected by pubs & restaurants being closed.

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

51 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

I would say you are managing, not waiting.

& if a safe vaccine is never available, you will continue to manage, as will everyone else. Maybe not exactly as before, but somehow.

Possibly, but I'm fairly confident that somebody will be able to stick a needle in me that will allow me to return my routine to something close to the status quo ante within a year from now.

 

Even if it needs to be repeated (say) every year or six months, it will be worth the trouble.

 

Those who consider themselves immortal (there are clearly quite a lot of them, looking around) and the vaccine refuseniks/tinfoil hat brigade will then be welcome to take their chances with Natural Selection, as they will cease to constitute a hazard to me.

 

John

Edited September 6, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[Pete the Elaner]

20 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Like other businesses, if everyone hides away forever, there simply won't be anything to return too. When you return from your isolation, shops and venues will have closed. People will have lost their livelihoods (some sadly choosing to take a more permanent way out) and there won't be anything to return to.

 

Yes, we might manage, but as I'm finding this week trying to buy materials for a project, modelling without model railway exhibitions is a lot harder the modelling with them.

 

I am in complete agreement with you.

 

We will all have our own time where we will be happy with the risk to go to a show. This may depend on infection & mortality rates but may also be when we just get fed up with running away from things.

For some, this may be now. For many, this may be some time in the future. Others may feel this is never, but their opinion may change over time.

 

A vaccine is not available. I hope one will be, but this may never happen & that is something we may have to deal with. The future of the virus is unknown & we must cope in the best way we can with what we have available.

I really cannot understand why some are so blinkered that they will not accept this.

[woodenhead]

12 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

But we're not managing without; c62,000 excess deaths and counting. That's not managing.

Approximately 100,825,272,791 have died of death in the lifetime of man on the Earth

 

It's a big number that have died from Covid, but how many people have died of other things this year, 156,000 people die daily, so given the current time of day (10am) about 65,000 people have already died today, which is about the same as Covid over 9 months.

 

The Government want us to be worried about Covid, it is a nasty illness and it can cause suffering and death.  It also has the capability of swamping the health service and a Government's main task is protecting it's citizens.  But If you stand back from the 62,000 figure you realise it is a drop in the ocean. 

 

Like you I am worried about Covid, I wear my mask, wash my hands and do as I am asked to reduce risk, but the risk is probably already very low it just seems more risky because of the publicity it receives.  Perhaps if we talked about heart disease in the same way we talk about Covid then more people would be on strict diets, jogging and generally treating their bodies with more respect. 

 

Of course, it is easy to quote statistics about what has happened so far and how it compares with the bigger picture and if I wanted to be a conspiracy theorist I could argue that the damage to the economy, the loss of liberties is all some grand scheme or simply over zealous reactions to something that is really minor.  But, what if the Government hadn't stepped in, could the figures of 250,000 UK deaths have come true, we will probably never know because perhaps the painful preventative measures perhaps did their job and protected us.  Because we can never prove how bad something could have been then it will allow people to perpetuate myths but we still need to remember that in the really big scheme of things Covid is a blip, a nasty one, but nonetheless a blip that will not wipe us out.

 

In 2015 it is estimated 57m people died, Covid would represent 0.1% of deaths of those deaths if the same average applies.

 

Also in 2015 about 141 million people were born, so the actual world population increased 84m, there are about 7.7 billion people on the Earth.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/births-and-deaths

[PenrithBeacon]

13 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

...

 

But If you stand back from the 62,000 figure you realise it is a drop in the ocean. 

...

 

Josef Stalin would have appreciated this sentence, just a statistic

[john new]

Not announced on here by the club but the Weymouth MRA Show on 31st October is now cancelled - see their webpage for confirmation.

 

http://www.weymouthmra.org.uk/annual-exhibition/

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by john new
Typos corrected

[AY Mod]

5 hours ago, RANGERS said:

Have any show organisers looked at practical measures which would allow shows to take place?

 

There's been plenty of consideration and discussion about what can be done but there's not much in the way of practical evidence that can be learned from yet, few things are absolutely comparable and any that are haven't been held either; yet.

 

I can see small local events being workable with a few measures in due course the other side of the winter if things aren't too bad.

 

I can also see the largest events return because they have facilities and staff who can manage the measures. Ally Pally, for instance is a large venue where flow control could be managed. Numbers vs capacity could be managed too with pre-booking and online payment. Compliance with measures could be managed too with PA systems and venue/event staff. Even some of the toilet facilities have separate entrance and exits which is unusual. What is unknown is how many visitors would come, probably at a higher ticket price based on lower attendance and whether it's viable for trade with lower numbers. The first large event will be a big learning experience.

 

Where it becomes far more difficult to visualise how future events will look is the middle ground of medium-sized events. Clubs with no online pre-booking platforms, no contactless payment facilities, venues where controls and measures are more difficult to manage, volunteers with less experience in crowd control etc; the list could go on.

 

I would hope most attendees would work within any measures and requests but you just know there are some who wouldn't and how much would those typically selfish sorts spoil the event or experience for others? Good luck in ousting BolshyBill from the centre of an event!

[RANGERS]

I've some interest in the coach tour industry and whilst there is still a significant reticence among the traditional, over 55 clientele (only 25% don't have significant concerns - see any parallels here?), many tour operators who have resumed are seeing the demographic has shifted and a new breed of customer, many of whom have never set foot on a coach since they left school, are making up the numbers. Granted, social distancing measures mean the "numbers" are still less than they need to be to support £300,000+ coaches but there has to be a starting point and they've been a godsend to an industry that's had virtually no revenue and minimal support beyond furlough.

 

There might not be the same financial pressures to re-start model railway shows but unless moves towards a resumption are made, establishing some safe working protocols and the like, we'll never actually know what lies out there.

[woodenhead]

38 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Josef Stalin would have appreciated this sentence, just a statistic

We all become statistics:

• World Wars
• Genocide
• Starvation
• Disease
• Old Age

One day I will be added to one of those lists, I'm not trying to put down your fears but life is short, it is fragile and it cannot be lived in fear.

 

I've a relative who has had to shield since March, finally gets to go out, but ends up in hospital with a suspected malignancy, operation is due soon and given their age it's a risky op in general, so far all appointments on own as due to Covid no-one else can attend as support.  You'd think Covid is the only killer in the world, it isn't and that's all I am attempting to say.

[lapford34102]

We might get a vaccine, then again we might not, the virus might mutate into something less dangerous, then again.... etc, etc. Predicting the future is a fraught activity.

The Govt are very keen at getting the "Commuter Economy" going again though some "authorities" are saying Covid has accelerated the drift to home working and the like by a number of years. Societies evolve and change in how they behave and what they do and maybe, hopefully, something positive comes out of this tragedy. 

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

Yes, we might manage, but as I'm finding this week trying to buy materials for a project, modelling without model railway exhibitions is a lot harder the modelling with them.

That makes two us at least though ironically searching for stuff has turned up a few things I never knew existed. We adapt as best we can and if the show scene evolves in new ways then so be it. I expect a lot of traditional show venues to be off limits for a long time so we'll have to see what effect that has.

 

Stu

[Joseph_Pestell]

Could the trade shows be done outdoors in the style of a car boot sale?

[RJS1977]

9 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Could the trade shows be done outdoors in the style of a car boot sale?

 

Indeed one 009 Society area groups is already holding 'mini meets' outdoors, car-boot style with micro layouts!

[caradoc]

4 hours ago, RANGERS said:

the over 55 bracket who are most definitely at highest risk and allegedly too scared to go out.

 

I'm over 55, plus I have high blood pressure, but I'm definitely not too scared to go out; I have followed all advice so far; I did not set foot on public transport from mid-March to mid-July, and when I do go out now I wear a face mask whenever required and maintain social distancing and hygiene wherever possible. So far I have not, AFAIK, caught Covid; Have I been lucky, or is the actual risk extremely small ? Either way, I am not prepared to cower in my home until when, or indeed if, an effective vaccine is created, tested, produced and administered. Having said that, I do not expect anyone to feel they are putting themselves at risk for my convenience and pleasure, whether that is at a model rail exhibition or anywhere else, but the effective cessation of normal life could not go on indefinitely, to the point where some may feel there is little worth living for.

 

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

Measures have been out in place to make restaurants safer, but visiting them is still not risk-free. This may sound cold, but the government simply now considers the risk low enough to outweigh the financial problems caused by them remaining closed.

The government provided furlough to millions. This was not from some magic, unlimited source. It needs to be recovered & the only source is from taxes so they need to find ways to make many jobs safer.

 

The financial problems caused by exhibitions not running are far less. Venue staff & a few organisers of larger shows may be in difficulty but this is insignificant compared to the  number of people who were affected by pubs & restaurants being closed.

 

 

Under your favoured presumption of no safe/effective vaccination in the foreseeable future, we will have to accept that some of the precautions taken under lockdown by some individuals will become permanent routine.

 

Hopefully, your view will prove unduly pessimistic but, if not, the choice will lie between more of us gradually adopting the carefree defiance widely exhibited at our beaches and beauty spots this summer, or living in a permanent state of semi-lockdown and accepting that the hospitality industry will have to find its own level within a "new normal". 

 

I've been going out for the odd pub lunch, three times since re-opening. That compares to once/twice a week pre-Covid. If I am an even remotely typical indicator of re-engagement rates, the numbers will get very scary, very quickly. 

 

Ultimately, without vaccines, the free-market imperative will dictate that governments give up on economically ruinous containment, let the virus rip and pick up the pieces later. It appears to me that it's already happening, albeit without political acknowledgement, in certain parts of the USA that have given up on half-hearted attempts at lockdown. 

 

John

Edited September 6, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[woodenhead]

54 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Could the trade shows be done outdoors in the style of a car boot sale?

Not at Stafford - we know Stafford comes with rain

[woodenhead]

What I have learnt in lockdown is that I am a good cook, I don't need to eat out all of the time, takeaways don't taste anything like their advertising and coffee from Starbucks, Costa et al is very overpriced and overrated.

 

That said, I did have one Starbucks Latte and two Costa Lattes yesterday, a bacon bap and a cheese toastie, for tea I had fish and chips from the local fryer - old habits are easy to fall back into .  My excuse was I was out for the day as offical chauffeur to Mrs Woodenhead whilst she was qualifiying for a new fitness instructor thing.

[Gilbert]

1 minute ago, woodenhead said:

My excuse was I was out for the day as offical chauffeur to Mrs Woodenhead whilst she was qualifiying for a new fitness instructor thing.

 

The irony....