More model ideas

[Covkid]

On 10/11/2021 at 18:56, wombatofludham said:

I haven't suggested an 80 Class DEMU for at least a week.  It's like an HST but less pointy, with more seats in the power car and a lower top speed.  

Otherwise identical.

 

On 10/11/2021 at 19:11, Colin_McLeod said:

 

Time to put in an 'advanced pre order' for the 80 class, the original eight NIR mk2s, all in blue and maroon livery, and two maroon Hunslets.

 

All comes to he who waits Colin.  Patience my son !!!

Given the way Accurascale / IRM have moved since their inception I believe that everything Irish will eventually be delivered, maybe / possibly with the exception of Sulzer engined beasts.  I would say the Hunslet trio will be a given - to match the Mk2s and the DEMUs, but just a matter of a time lapse of several years.  Havrto give the customers time to recoup their expenditure levels.

 

What did the Hunslets sound like ?  Anything like a class 20, or a more muted turbo whistle ?  Definitely a DCC sound option.  

[Covkid]

I didn't think so until recently - well until they announced the chaldron project anyway, would a full suite of Brush type 2 / class 31 offerings sell enough pieces to make it worthwhile ?.I have a 31111 "skinhead" salted away which I haven't dared look at for two years, but am guessing it is wrecked. I also have several Lima bodyshells in the round tuit box.  The intention was to "Hornby railroad" a couple of 1960s  / 1970s era Lima hybrids, but I have this inherent fear of mazak rotted 31s, plius the worked needed to bring a Lima 31 sheel up to spec.  I have every faith in Accurascale delivering a multi phase model starting with the toffee apples and Mirrlees skinheads, then the re-engined examples, then the Donny replated refurbs, the the headlights and "Nelson" windscreens. The efforts going into the class 37 are a good indication of what could be done.

 

I will be watching Accurascale announcements very closely over the next 12 months !!!!     

[wombatofludham]

 

 

26 minutes ago, Covkid said:

 

What did the Hunslets sound like ?  Anything like a class 20, or a more muted turbo whistle ?  Definitely a DCC sound option.  

They sounded like a Class 20.  There's some good video on the Choob of the Hunslet Farewell tour of 1991 (which was my first trip to Ireland) and you can hear they are definitely descended from the Whistling Wardrobes.

[Georgeconna]

Looks Like Paul Isles Visited the West of Ireland for some Research! What could it be  I wonder. It is for Accurascale and not IRM so not Irish most likely!!!! There is no SR U class over this way so I leave you lads to do some googling to see what Britishness lies over here to fit snugly some UK Rail gauge........clue may well be in the title perhaps. 

 

https://twitter.com/locationsphotos

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Georgeconna

[Covkid]

On 12/11/2021 at 17:48, Georgeconna said:

Looks Like Paul Isles Visited the West of Ireland for some Research! What could it be  I wonder. It is for Accurascale and not IRM so not Irish most likely!!!! There is no SR U class over this way so I leave you lads to do some googling to see what Britishness lies over here to fit snugly some UK Rail gauge........clue may well be in the title perhaps. 

 

https://twitter.com/locationsphotos

 

You could cut that any number of ways George. Visiting the preserved Mk2Bs for example or an 80 class DMU or even the Hunslet in the museum.  Or how about the Jeep 2-6-4 tank.  Talking of which, how about those wagons the Jeeps hauled for the motorway construction ? I believe there is a kit for them, but they would be an ideal "building Ireland / building Britain" example - a Jeep and three of those hoppers.     

 

Plenty to get the juices flowing.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Covkid

[Georgeconna]

5 hours ago, Covkid said:

You could cut that any number of ways George. Visiting the preserved Mk2Bs for example or an 80 class DMU or even the Hunslet in the museum.  Or how about the Jeep 2-6-4 tank.  Talking of which, how about those wagons the Jeeps hauled for the motorway construction ? I believe there is a kit for them, but they would be an ideal "building Ireland / building Britain" example - a Jeep and three of those hoppers.     

 

Plenty to get the juices flowing.

I know those wagons for the Motorway but very local bases TBH. Love a Hunslet but North is the place to go for that!!

[Wickham Green too]

5 hours ago, Covkid said:

....... Mk2Bs for example or an 80 class DMU or even the Hunslet in the museum.  Or how about the Jeep 2-6-4 tank.  Talking of which, how about those wagons the Jeeps hauled for the motorway construction ? ....

Personally I wouldn't fly anywhere near Shannon to visit things the other side of Belfast ! ( Actually, I'm not sure what I WOULD fly to Shannon for !!?! )

[Georgeconna]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

Personally I wouldn't fly anywhere near Shannon to visit things the other side of Belfast ! ( Actually, I'm not sure what I WOULD fly to Shannon for !!?! )

 

4-CIG in Sligo and a Gaggle of Irish Stuff in Moyasta or Limerick Wagon Works well for bogie cements and other cute stuff

 

Paul is accurascale though so surely a UK project?

 

 

[McC]

16 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

 

4-CIG in Sligo and a Gaggle of Irish Stuff in Moyasta or Limerick Wagon Works well for bogie cements and other cute stuff

 

Paul is accurascale though so surely a UK project?

 

 

Is he?

[murphaph]

Not only but also?

https://irishrailwaymodels.com/pages/about-us

 

The plot thickens as they say...

 

The suspense of what the lads are cooking up next is half the fun now. Could be literally anything. 

[Georgeconna]

2 hours ago, McC said:

Is he?

 

Well kinda says its in the tweet doesn't it. That is an Accursale business. See below. Look does not bother me just creating a bit of mystery. after all isn't that what he us trying to do? I won't bother me backside with any more if this false new stuffs I think. Waste of time me thinks.

 

Paul Isles

@locationsphotos

·

Nov 11Literally, a flying visit with

@Ryanair

to

@ShannonAirport

for an

@accurascale

research and survey visit. A case of travelling from the land of the third rail, to the land of the 5’ 3’, then back again - all inside three days

 

[Global]

On 09/11/2021 at 10:58, TomScrut said:

 

I think the 31 and HST could be argued as a good case, neither from Hornby are spot on, lack DCC features and despite a HST needing coaches tooling too there are loads of liveries and pretty much anybody basing their layouts on the last 40 years could argue the case for one. Whether everyone already has all the HSTs they want is another matter altogether. I'd also like to see AS's dedication to specific tooling applied to the NMT, although I aren't holding my breath.

 

08 I think whilst there are 2 good examples out there, neither have lighting but also how popular is an 08 at well over £100? In the right livery I'd probably bite though.

 

20 and 47 have just been done by Bachmann, and Heljan have a 47 on the way too so I think those would be an unnecessary fight!

I guess as this thread is all about models that we’d like to see Accurascale do then there are no wrong or right answers!

 

Personally I have three requirements, accuracy, value for money and whether or not I connect with the brand.

 

Accurascale tick all three boxes and then some for me so I’d like anything I buy to be from them! Cavalex and SLW are also producing great models. 

 

With Bachmann 47 I feel that it is not value for money for something that is comparable (but still not quite there in my view) to an AS loco and Heljan can’t seem to get the shape sorted so I believe there is still a gap for an AS model! I may be alone in that view, I may not!

 

There also the release speed of models, the new manufacturers all seem to release reasonable batches of models at a time whereas the likes of Hornby and Bachmann, in particular, seem to drip feed them at snails pace, if at all!

 

Hornby, for example, have never released a BR Blue 31/4 to my knowledge? Despite this sub class being substantial in the 80s and featuring across much of the country. Bachmann’s pedestrian releases will probably mean a long wait for certain liveries stretching into years or even decades! 

 

[TomScrut]

2 minutes ago, Global said:

so I believe there is still a gap for an AS model!

 

If it was your money being invested would you still think the same? You need to remember that not all buyers are like you, and if they have a pot of money to spend on tooling why would they use it to go and pick a difficult fight when there are easier ones out there? The 31 being a good example, tooling has been around for years, is generally thought of as being sub optimal, Hornby drip feeding releases, and so on.

 

Let's say that AS did a 47, they'd still lose out on loads of sales simply because Bachmann are more established in the marketplace than they are IMO and also have new tooling. Put the Heljan one into the equation and it might be that AS get 30% ish of the market IF they are lucky in my opinion (speculation). OTOH 30% of the 47 market is probably bigger than a lot of the weird and wonderful stuff we have seen made in the past.

[Global]

23 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

If it was your money being invested would you still think the same? You need to remember that not all buyers are like you, and if they have a pot of money to spend on tooling why would they use it to go and pick a difficult fight when there are easier ones out there? The 31 being a good example, tooling has been around for years, is generally thought of as being sub optimal, Hornby drip feeding releases, and so on.

 

Let's say that AS did a 47, they'd still lose out on loads of sales simply because Bachmann are more established in the marketplace than they are IMO and also have new tooling. Put the Heljan one into the equation and it might be that AS get 30% ish of the market IF they are lucky in my opinion (speculation). OTOH 30% of the 47 market is probably bigger than a lot of the weird and wonderful stuff we have seen made in the past.

I think I made it clear that it is my view and there may or may not be people that agree with it?

 

I can’t spend Accurascale’s investment money for them, obviously, that is their decision to make but looking at sales of their 37/55 they seem to be doing more than ok against, let’s say not horrendous, existing Bachmann models so if it was my own money, I’d not be discounting the idea just yet!

 

Let’s not forget the VFM angle though, at todays prices a top of range AS 37 rrp is £259.00, Bachmann’s 47 rrp is £369.95 - even with discount that is still £315.00 so 25% dearer. So for every 4 Bachmann’s I might buy I could get 5 AS - are people really that loyal to Bachmann that they’d pay so much over the odds?

 

[TomScrut]

5 minutes ago, Global said:

I think I made it clear that it is my view and there may or may not be people that agree with it?

 

Yes but I thought we came on here to discuss opinions, not just state them! I was simply offering what I felt was a reasoned counter argument (just as you were offering an opinion on my post).

 

10 minutes ago, Global said:

but looking at sales of their 37/55 they seem to be doing more than ok against, let’s say not horrendous, existing Bachmann models

 

Yes, definitely not horrendous, but they are not brand new tooled models, they are ones that have been around for a while with room for improvement. They will also be entering a marketplace with only 1 opponent (discounting Hornbys RR) rather than 2 in the case of a 47.

 

6 minutes ago, Global said:

are people really that loyal to Bachmann that they’d pay so much over the odds?

 

That depends on whether they have any idea who AS are and whether they are willing to buy their product. A lot of people are suspicious of new kids on the block (not the boy band). In 10 years time it might be a completely different conversation.

 

If AS did a 47, I'd probably buy it over the competition if the quality and price are where the 55 and 37 look to be, but I probably aren't the average customer either.

 

If people only bought on quality/price ratio Hornby wouldn't be in the market leaders (in terms of market share), which they are AFAIK, would they? A lot of sales are based on brand familiarity.

[Global]

5 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Yes but I thought we came on here to discuss opinions, not just state them! I was simply offering what I felt was a reasoned counter argument (just as you were offering an opinion on my post).

 

 

Yes, definitely not horrendous, but they are not brand new tooled models, they are ones that have been around for a while with room for improvement. They will also be entering a marketplace with only 1 opponent (discounting Hornbys RR) rather than 2 in the case of a 47.

 

 

That depends on whether they have any idea who AS are and whether they are willing to buy their product. A lot of people are suspicious of new kids on the block (not the boy band). In 10 years time it might be a completely different conversation.

 

If AS did a 47, I'd probably buy it over the competition if the quality and price are where the 55 and 37 look to be, but I probably aren't the average customer either.

 

If people only bought on quality/price ratio Hornby wouldn't be in the market leaders (in terms of market share), which they are AFAIK, would they? A lot of sales are based on brand familiarity.

Sorry for the confusion, the bit about being clear was more towards you saying I need to remember not everyone thinks like me, when I had already said that I maybe alone in my view - not that it wasn’t up for discussion! 
 

Again only from personal observation, but being the new kids on the block (I got told off comparing them to Ant & Dec winning awards before!!) doesn’t seem to be having any negative affect in my eyes - they certainly don’t seem to be lacking customer numbers for the amount of past, existing and future models selling out? 

 

[Flying Pig]

1 hour ago, Global said:

With Bachmann 47 I feel that it is not value for money for something that is comparable (but still not quite there in my view) to an AS loco and Heljan can’t seem to get the shape sorted so I believe there is still a gap for an AS model! I may be alone in that view, I may not!

 

You've no idea how much it cheers my heart to hear that There's Still Room For The Definitive Class 47.  What would life be if we could no longer dream?  

[TomScrut]

8 minutes ago, Global said:

Again only from personal observation, but being the new kids on the block (I got told off comparing them to Ant & Dec winning awards before!!) doesn’t seem to be having any negative affect in my eyes - they certainly don’t seem to be lacking customer numbers for the amount of past, existing and future models selling out? 

 

Yes and I am one of those who has got plenty on order with them, and I think that they have got a good future if they can keep up their good work!

 

The thing is that we are more in the loop than a lot of the customer base IMO simply by being active on this forum.

[Covkid]

6 hours ago, Global said:

I guess as this thread is all about models that we’d like to see Accurascale do then there are no wrong or right answers!

 

Personally I have three requirements, accuracy, value for money and whether or not I connect with the brand.

 

Accurascale tick all three boxes and then some for me so I’d like anything I buy to be from them! Cavalex and SLW are also producing great models. 

 

With Bachmann 47 I feel that it is not value for money for something that is comparable (but still not quite there in my view) to an AS loco and Heljan can’t seem to get the shape sorted so I believe there is still a gap for an AS model! I may be alone in that view, I may not!

 

There also the release speed of models, the new manufacturers all seem to release reasonable batches of models at a time whereas the likes of Hornby and Bachmann, in particular, seem to drip feed them at snails pace, if at all!

 

Hornby, for example, have never released a BR Blue 31/4 to my knowledge? Despite this sub class being substantial in the 80s and featuring across much of the country. Bachmann’s pedestrian releases will probably mean a long wait for certain liveries stretching into years or even decades! 

 

 

At the moment and IMHO the Bachmann 47 has a USP - the start sequence of sound and lights causes the cab and interior lights and marker lights to dim as the diesel engine cranks and fires. That is an amazing piece of model theatre to me and sets the bench mark.  Perhaps the A class also does it, I don't know, but Bachmann have definitely laid down the gauntlett.

 

Also in defence of Bachmann, how quickly did those 24/1s then 24/0s appear on the retailers shelves after they were announced in the modelling media ?  The new idea of Bachmann announcing every three months is delivering a "fresher product" in my view, but none of that detracts from Accurascale's retail options - the pack system for wagons with individual numbers and slight livery variations is something Hornby must aspire to. 

[Accurascale Fran]

5 minutes ago, Covkid said:

 

At the moment and IMHO the Bachmann 47 has a USP - the start sequence of sound and lights causes the cab and interior lights and marker lights to dim as the diesel engine cranks and fires. That is an amazing piece of model theatre to me and sets the bench mark.  Perhaps the A class also does it, I don't know, but Bachmann have definitely laid down the gauntlett.

The A Class does indeed have this feature too.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

[newbryford]

11 minutes ago, Covkid said:

 

At the moment and IMHO the Bachmann 47 has a USP - the start sequence of sound and lights causes the cab and interior lights and marker lights to dim as the diesel engine cranks and fires. That is an amazing piece of model theatre to me and sets the bench mark.  Perhaps the A class also does it, I don't know, but Bachmann have definitely laid down the gauntlett.

 

 

 

 As does the new Bachmann 150s

[Covkid]

8 hours ago, Covkid said:

 

At the moment and IMHO the Bachmann 47 has a USP - the start sequence of sound and lights causes the cab and interior lights and marker lights to dim as the diesel engine cranks and fires. That is an amazing piece of model theatre to me and sets the bench mark.  Perhaps the A class also does it, I don't know, but Bachmann have definitely laid down the gauntlet.

 

8 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

The A Class does indeed have this feature too.

 

Cheers!

Fran

 

7 hours ago, newbryford said:

 As does the new Bachmann 150s

 

That is really reassuring to hear Fran and Bry. 

It takes commercial models to the next level in my view and I imagine a fully equipped deltic or 37 will be quite something to experience.  Deltics are not my bag at all, but a GSYP centre headcode will definitely be on my wishlist as and when Accurascale get round to it.   

[GordonC]

The Class 47s is a very crowded market, while the vast majority of modellers will have at least one in their collection, there will be a lot of models already in circulation whether its Hornby, Lima (or Hornby ex-Lima), earlier Bachmann, earlier Heljan, Vitrains or now the new Bachmann and Heljan models. It would need to be a brave manufacturer to commit to tooling one up with all the detail variations thats now expected in the market and would really need to offer something that the others dont to pick up sales. Competing with pre-owned models that were sold for half the current price would be tough, but the Bachmann one is getting pretty expensive at the top end so if they could do comparable quality at a cheaper price there would be a gap there.

 

As things stand, I'd suggest a Class 31 would be an open goal with a large number of livery variations, wide geographical spread, long lifespan and the current manufacturer of the high spec model seemingly disinterested in the gaps not yet produced.

[Global]

14 minutes ago, GordonC said:

The Class 47s is a very crowded market, while the vast majority of modellers will have at least one in their collection, there will be a lot of models already in circulation whether its Hornby, Lima (or Hornby ex-Lima), earlier Bachmann, earlier Heljan, Vitrains or now the new Bachmann and Heljan models. It would need to be a brave manufacturer to commit to tooling one up with all the detail variations thats now expected in the market and would really need to offer something that the others dont to pick up sales. Competing with pre-owned models that were sold for half the current price would be tough, but the Bachmann one is getting pretty expensive at the top end so if they could do comparable quality at a cheaper price there would be a gap there.

 

As things stand, I'd suggest a Class 31 would be an open goal with a large number of livery variations, wide geographical spread, long lifespan and the current manufacturer of the high spec model seemingly disinterested in the gaps not yet produced.

But the same could be said for other models?

 

The Class 25 is a similar situation - both Heljan and Bachmann have models of them. Heljan haven’t nailed it looks wise and the Bachmann one looks ok but not quite top spec. Yet SLW, who could be called a somewhat more niche and less well known manufacturer than Accurascale, is bringing one out and they seem to be selling out.

 

I don’t think there’s any question on the comparable quality of Accurascale though, and a look through their website will show you get so much for your money! 
 

I agree on the 31 though! ;-) 

[TomScrut]

3 hours ago, Global said:

The Class 25 is a similar situation - both Heljan and Bachmann have models of them. Heljan haven’t nailed it looks wise and the Bachmann one looks ok but not quite top spec. Yet SLW, who could be called a somewhat more niche and less well known manufacturer than Accurascale, is bringing one out and they seem to be selling out.

 

The thing is, and this applies to all of the manufacturers, we don't know how many they need to make to make ends meet. SLW could be selling out, but I expect they won't make as many as Bachmann (either in 24 or 25).

 

A few things to consider, which may apply to smaller manufacturers, I know a lot of it is common sense but I am saying it anyway:

• Is the design or consultancy with design done by an owner of the company who ultimately is investing the time in their own future rather than taking a salary? This would bring significant overhead cost out of the project.
• Given the cost of tooling, do the smaller companies invest less in lower quality tooling which is a trade off of investment vs how many goes they get with the mould? Note this is not to do with the quality of the component which comes out of the mould, simply how many components the mould can make before quality deteriorates. This means less models to cover the cost of the mould.
• Do they have a dealer network or do they sell direct? One less margin to account for.
• Are they run from somebody's home or do they have a warehouse/factory to pay for?
• How is the company funded, what is the ownership structure? i.e. is it someone who is doing what they love and trying to make a bit of money while they are at it or is it funded by a group of investors who expect X% year on year financial growth?

My expectation is (and I am willing to be corrected) that SLW don't have that many overheads (compared to say AS, let alone Bachmann or Hornby) and therefore they don't need to make as much money to keep people in jobs, if in fact it is a full time job for the people that do it. I don't know SLW as a company and so I don't want to sound disrespectful if it is a bigger operation that I expect so apologies if that is the case.

 

My point being, I think AS are a bit too big to be compared to SLW and therefore just because one can do something it doesn't automatically mean the other can.

 

To be honest, and I am guilty as anybody for this, any discussion as to whether something is viable or not for any given company without knowing all the facts is pretty pointless anyway, other than our own amusement.