2021 hopes

[cambo74]

7 hours ago, Downer said:

Interesting that this thread is roughly 75-25 diesel/electric over steam when Hornby’s priorities are usually the reverse of that. A sign of the times, perhaps.

 

It doest matter - Hornby's announcement will still be 99% Steam 1% Railroad Diesel .....

[adb968008]

Ive said before, but will repeat, but I think trainsets need a reboot.

 

Too many trainsets (excluding pug, scotsman and mallard) relate more to grandparents than grandkids.

 

A range of trainsets modelled on preserved railways I think could be a good idea. Actual locos and appropriately numbered/livered stock, together with the circle, controller and perhaps a prominent structure from the line.

 

 

its not as if there isnt enough J94/Tank engines/4mt /5mt etc preserved that are in Hornbys range, they could do a livery / number.

 

I dont think they would need to be railroad quality either, something like 44806 and some NYMR gresleys in full detail would appeal to a lot for instance. 
 

certainly as families frequent multiple lines it gives reason to extend the collection based on multiple day trips.

 

i dare say a “santa special” trainset is an obvious gap too.

it could also put some life back into railroad lima toolings too..a good paint job on a preserved 37/47/55 with some railroad coaches could feed the younger preserved railway enthusiasts...

 

key is just ensure its in the livery it carries in year 2021.

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by adb968008

[Legend]

36 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Ive said before, but will repeat, but I think trainsets need a reboot.

 

Too many trainsets (excluding pug, scotsman and mallard) relate more to grandparents than grandkids.

 

A range of trainsets modelled on preserved railways I think could be a good idea. Actual locos and appropriately numbered/livered stock, together with the circle, controller and perhaps a prominent structure from the line.

 

 

its not as if there isnt enough J94/Tank engines/4mt /5mt etc preserved that are in Hornbys range, they could do a livery / number.

 

I dont think they would need to be railroad quality either, something like 44806 and some NYMR gresleys in full detail would appeal to a lot for instance. 
 

certainly as families frequent multiple lines it gives reason to extend the collection based on multiple day trips.

 

i dare say a “santa special” trainset is an obvious gap too.

it could also put some life back into railroad lima toolings too..a good paint job on a preserved 37/47/55 with some railroad coaches could feed the younger preserved railway enthusiasts...

 

key is just ensure its in the livery it carries in year 2021.

 

 I’ve always thought a 66 would be good in a trainset .  You’d need a hopper though .

[adb968008]

22 minutes ago, Legend said:

 I’ve always thought a 66 would be good in a trainset .  You’d need a hopper though .

A few propper hoppers...not 16 tonners and a milk tank.

[GWR8700]

I really hope they don't release any coaches or wagons that are available as kits.  I also include the soon to be reintroduced Slater's range in that.

There is enough room for smaller suppliers and the big manufacturers in this hobby.

[tomparryharry]

On 11/12/2020 at 10:07, adb968008 said:

 

Their never has been a good 14xx in my opinion, but the DJM model, for its faults was probably the best so far, but still pulls nowt.

I can never, ever understand why people complain about the haulage capabilities of the Western 0-4-2.  In the big bad world, anything above 2 autocoaches, and the shed foreman would have the  loco exchanged for a pannier. Certainly, it looks nice, but it won't cut the mustard in any scenario above the locomotives capacity. 

These photos sometimes show the humble 14xx hauling a large train, but it's very definitely a one-off. Photos will show the loco working, and highly likely the photo exists because of its rarity value. I have a DJM model, and I'll limit it to an autocoach. The same for a Dapol/Airfix version.  Not because there is anything wrong, but that is how they were. 

 

If Hornby want to get in on the small Western tank locomotive thing, may I humbly suggest they have a look at one of their own, namely the 1854-2721 pannier. In fairness, Hornby won't do it. After all Bachmann have saturated the Western tank engine market. However, Bachmann only cater for late-edition panniers; the much earlier locomotives were as numerous as their earlier counterparts, and importantly, lasted as long, or longer than the 8750 top-fed version. They could cover several eras at one go, being Western, and BR(W). 

 

Cheers,

Ian.   

[Colin_McLeod]

A Glasgow Blue EMU would be popular IMO.

[RichardT]

7 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The steam era is finite unless Hornby expand into new areas like narrow gauge, or other scales than OO.

 

Diesel and electric fans get new prototypes and new plastic wallpaper on existing prototypes to clamour for every year....

 

Not sure I agree with you here Dunsignalling!

Yes, the steam era (?1804-1961?) is technically finite but rtr manufacturers have barely scratched the surface of the locos & rolling stock that existed in that 150+ year time span.  Whereas the post-steam era has been flogged to death.

OK, some models aren’t to what would be perceived as modern standards, but there must be 90% coverage of locos.  Less so of multiple units, but there’s a reason for that - they are extremely boring & have zero play value.  As are many of the ideas for modern era train sets (not train packs - different market) “to appeal to youngsters”.  A fixed formation unit plus an oval of track on which it goes round and round and round...and that’s it. The kids will be playing with the cardboard box it came in by 10am on Christmas Day.

 

Something with external moving parts (steam or a rod-coupled diesel/electric) plus a train that can be played with are a much more appealing idea for a kids present.

 

On a related topic - have modern-era railway modellers forgotten how to do basic railway modelling? I saw some pleas above for diesels with specific names and numbers to be produced. What happened to renumbering & renaming the existing model? If you don’t want to, to preserve resale value, then fine, but just admit you’re a toy collector, not a railway modeller.

 

Best, RT

Edited December 12, 2020 by RichardT
Clarify a point

[GreenGiraffe22]

7 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The steam era is finite unless Hornby expand into new areas like narrow gauge, or other scales than OO.

 

I actually had the same thoughts about modern image, between all the RTR manufacturers is there that much left to do? Genuine question, I have not much interest in railways post 1947 let alone the current scene, so I don't know the extent of what is used these days.

 

Fairly sure there's still hundreds if not thousands(?) Of steam era prototypes to be done 

[Dunsignalling]

31 minutes ago, RichardT said:

Not at all sure I agree with you here.  The rtr manufacturers have barely scratched the surface of “the steam era” (?1804-1961?), whereas the post-steam era has been flogged to death. OK, some models aren’t to what would be perceived as 

modern standards, but there must be 90% coverage of locos.  Less so of multiple units, but there’s a reason for that - they are extremely boring & have zero play value.  As are many of the ideas for modern era train sets (not train packs - different market) “to appeal to youngsters”.  A fixed formation unit plus an oval of track on which it goes round and round and round...and that’s it. The kids will be playing with the cardboard box it came in by 10am on Christmas Day. Something with external moving parts (steam or a rod-coupled diesel/electric) plus a train that can be played with are a much more appealing idea for a kids present.

 

On a related topic - have modern-era railway modellers forgotten how to do basic railway modelling? I saw some pleas above for diesels with specific names and numbers to be produced. What happened to renumbering & renaming the existing model? If you don’t want to, to preserve resale value, then fine, but just admit you’re a toy collector, not a railway modeller.

 

Best, RT

I wholly agree, my point was purely that, for all practical purposes, the list of steam-era subjects closed in 1960. That of "modern image" ones continues to grow.

 

OK, the steam list is much longer. Comparing the number of steam loco classes with that of diesels and electrics, I'm guessing there"d be a couple of extra noughts on the end.

 

 That's only to be expected given how the UK rail industry evolved and, for me at least, the relative lack of operational (=play) interest would rule out modelling any period after July 1967.

 

John

Edited December 12, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[RichardT]

20 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

I wholly agree, my point was purely that, for all practical purposes, the list of steam-era subjects closed in 1960.

Hi John

 

As so often happens on social media it turns out that you are violently agreeing with your interlocutor!

 

I’ve just looked again at what I posted and have realised that everything my wife says about how I’ve turned into a grumpy old man is true...  In my head I’m still a go-ahead young thing!

 

RT

 

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by RichardT
Spulling

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, tomparryharry said:

I can never, ever understand why people complain about the haulage capabilities of the Western 0-4-2.  In the big bad world, anything above 2 autocoaches, and the shed foreman would have the  loco exchanged for a pannier. Certainly, it looks nice, but it won't cut the mustard in any scenario above the locomotives capacity. 

These photos sometimes show the humble 14xx hauling a large train, but it's very definitely a one-off. Photos will show the loco working, and highly likely the photo exists because of its rarity value. I have a DJM model, and I'll limit it to an autocoach. The same for a Dapol/Airfix version.  Not because there is anything wrong, but that is how they were. 

 

If Hornby want to get in on the small Western tank locomotive thing, may I humbly suggest they have a look at one of their own, namely the 1854-2721 pannier. In fairness, Hornby won't do it. After all Bachmann have saturated the Western tank engine market. However, Bachmann only cater for late-edition panniers; the much earlier locomotives were as numerous as their earlier counterparts, and importantly, lasted as long, or longer than the 8750 top-fed version. They could cover several eras at one go, being Western, and BR(W). 

 

Cheers,

Ian.   

Its not about the number of coaches, its about its ability go pull itself up a hill. Even my Beattie can manage 6 humble 4 wheelers on a gradient.

Edited December 12, 2020 by adb968008

[adb968008]

40 minutes ago, RichardT said:

Not sure I agree with you here Dunsignalling!

Yes, the steam era (?1804-1961?) is technically finite but rtr manufacturers have barely scratched the surface of the locos & rolling stock that existed in that 150+ year time span.  Whereas the post-steam era has been flogged to death.

 

Post steam also means post year 2000.

Dont worry, nearly all the manufacturers make the same mistake.

 

Theres more pre 1923 models rtr out there, than modern image built post 2000. Fortunately we've got Accurascale doing the wagons, just need someone to pick up units now.

Edited December 12, 2020 by adb968008

[ManofKent]

On 06/12/2020 at 11:44, daltonparva said:

Besides the Caley single that people keep mentioning, which would go with Rails/Bachmann new 812 offering, there is another Caley loco in the Hornby stable that would benefit from a long overdue upgrading and fit with the current penchant for highly detailed small locos; the Caley  "pug".

I'm desperately hoping for the Killin Pug to save me kitbashing...

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

There is a lot of talk about train sets. It would seem to me that most people that buy train sets are parents that don't really know very much about railways purchasing for children that developed an interest of their own accord. Should they stay interested they will likely buy what their interest develops into, if not then off to land fill once no longer played with. Any child with parents, usually a father, that has model railway then train sets aren't ordinarily purchased, more usually specific items to run on the layout.

 

Anyway, as I have already bashed Trix AL1's into at leasr on of all the early electric locomotives, Mk1's into Swindon 123 DMU's and had a Cartic-4 laser cut as a home made kit, what I would like is a Northumbrian or North star to go with my Rocket*:

 

 

How about, Arrow, Wildfire, Dart, Comet and Phoenix as renamed and re-liveried Rocket types along with the 2-2-0 Planet types and also the 0-4-0 Atlas types.

 

*Not enough photographs on this thread.........boring !!!

 

Gibbo.

[RichardT]

36 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

 

Theres more pre 1923 models rtr out there, than modern image built post 2000.

I see where you’re coming from, and numerically perhaps that’s right.  Also, in terms of variety of liveries (given the ease of complex “repainting” in the modern era using vinyls) there’s probably a relative paucity of choice.  But how many modern liveries last more than a few years?   
 

Nonetheless, as a percentage of the available subjects there’s no comparison between what’s produced for the modern era & the steam era.

(Also “steam era” doesn’t mean “pre-1923”, but don’t worry.)

 

A longer-term issue is that, as someone else said on this forum, the post-2000 passenger railway, to most normals, is simply a utility.  Garish “explosion in a paintbox” design-incoherent liveries on a tiny variety of identikit units which shuttle back & forth to get you to where you need to be.  Travel by full size train is still interesting, but that interest increasingly stems from the architecture and the experience of travel. Very little play value in the trains themselves and relatively little to generate enthusiasm for replicating it in *mass market* model form. Especially given the high prices needed to reproduce & licence these long units to modern standards.

Modern freight has more potential - but perhaps because many modern freight layouts use every trick in the book to operate what are actually steam-era railway formations & operating practices, only using modern stock?

 

Sorry, all getting away from Hornby 2021.  Bring on those Raven A2s & TPE insectoid push-pull unit things...

 

Best,

RT

Edited December 12, 2020 by RichardT
Spelling again...blooming tiny phone keypad...

[James Makin]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

A few propper hoppers...not 16 tonners and a milk tank.

It opens an interesting opportunity for Hornby there - a genuine cheap Railroad standard 21st century hopper, something like an HTA/HHA coal or slightly shorter aggregate-conversion type creation, with a one piece body moulding and no other detail than a pair of bogies, then pump that out for a £19.99 price point in generic EWS/DB/Freightliner/GBRf/Colas etc liveries - pricewise it’d fit neatly under the prototypical wagons from Bachmann/Revolution/Accurascale etcs yet fit both the trainset/new entrants and the more price sensitive/less concerned segment.

 

This for me would sum of what the ‘Railroad’ range ought to be about, rather than just a lazy dumping ground for ex-Lima mouldings 

[Philou]

@tomparryharry I shouldn't be too sure about a 14xx 'just' pulling a couple coaches. I have some photos (borrowed off t'intertubes so won't post up here) showing 1427 waiting for 'right away' (shirley that ought to be 'right-of-way'?)  and has in its consist the following: a ventilated van, two 6-wheel coaches, another ventilated van, 2 7-planks and 4 5-planks all loaded with coal, plus a Toad at the rear - so a nice open cab 0-4-2 for a change would be good. Its replacement, 5818, is shown pulling similar loads - 10 assorted goods wagons including a steel 16 tonner plus a Toad - I'd have one of those too.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, RichardT said:

I

A longer-term issues is that, as someone else said on this forum, the post-2000 railway, to most normals, is simply a utility.  Garish “explosion in a paintbox” design-incoherent liveries on a tiny variety of identikit units which shuttle back & forth to get you to where you need to be. 

I think it depends on your age.

I used to think the exact same about AC Electrics and EMUs, today I wish I had a time machine...

 

This morning, I has a dream, I looked at my clock, it was 5 am, I dreamt that I saw an Intercity service with a class 90 and Mark 3’s.

 

 

I travelled for 2 hours to watch a mundane Garish “explosion in a paintbox” design-incoherent liveries on a tiny variety of identikit units which shuttle back & forth to get you to where you need to be, for just 15 seconds...

 

Then woke up in bed at 12pm..and realised I had that video on my camera and that it wasnt a dream, and I had just got up before dawn to watch a boring old HST, a 90 and a pair of 86’s on a 5 hour adventure that was over by 10am.

 

I think part of the problem of the main stream manufacturers, is the powers that be are of a certain age that just doesnt remember what it was like to be young, instead only see their youth in their vision... Ask the me of 25 years ago if I would get up at 5am, drive half the M25 for a 15 second glance of a class 90 on mk3’s.. I’d say i’d gone mad and change my adult future... then buy a £15 student ticket home and catch a 90 and mk3’s, whilst hoping I wasnt too late to see a pair of class 25’s one of which was garishly called the ice cream van..... As for my dad.. well he couldnt care either way for 25’s but a pair of Black 5’s...

 

The 1980’s/90’s was just as colourful on the railways as today.. NSE, Revised NSE, Jaffa Cake, Midline, Regional Railways, Provincial, Scotrail, Intercity, Trans Penine, WYPTE red (and green), GMPTE, Skipper, Tyne/Wear, RrNW.. the list goes on... It made up in colour what it lacked in steam classes variety.

 

Fyi  my daughter joined me excitedly on daddys 5am adventure, went to bed early last night (willingly !!) excited about seeing in the flesh, something she’d only seen in my grainy pictures from the 1990’s...shes made her own videos today too.

 

One big difference though, was Hornby wasnt afraid of cutting edge stuff... they tooled a 58,90,91,142, Eurostar, mk3’s, mk4’s, MGRs at the latest standards of their day... how much mileage have they gotten out of that old rope today ? - good investment i’d wager... with only class 67, 395 and Azuma.. since 2005, i’m not sure in 30 years time, that Hornbys got much to recall upon from today’s “cutting edge” railway scene.

Edited December 12, 2020 by adb968008

[Philou]

@adb968008 Nice video - and at 7 up plus the DVT not over-long for a reasonably sized model railway and could be cut back in length for a smaller layout - c'mon Hornby do some packs!

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[TomScrut]

28 minutes ago, RichardT said:

A longer-term issue is that, as someone else said on this forum, the post-2000 passenger railway, to most normals, is simply a utility.  Garish “explosion in a paintbox” design-incoherent liveries on a tiny variety of identikit units which shuttle back & forth to get you to where you need to be.

 

I don't know, although I never claim to be normal, I have always like contemporary as long as I have been interested in trains which started early 90s. My main interest is in the now although I do have a soft spot for late sectorisation given its what I remember best from my childhood.

 

30 minutes ago, RichardT said:

Modern freight has more potential - but perhaps because many modern freight layouts use every trick in the book to operate what are actually steam-era railway formations & operating practices, only using modern stock?

 

How do you mean?

[newbryford]

Another garish livery.

Pity it's not "modern".............

Flickr Pic by RMwebber Jack

 

And the subject of many requests on this thread,

 

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by newbryford

[adb968008]

31 minutes ago, newbryford said:

Another garish livery.

Pity it's not "modern".............

 

 

And the subject of many requests on this thread,

 

 

Queue complaints about “printed” headlights above the cab, and painted over windows for that new kitchen

 

However.. that said they could produce both these HST variants in 2021 ..seen passing each other an hour after I saw that 90...  now you can mix EMT and Ex-LNER as EMR in one train... passing a Midland Pullman

 

Colourful set that was, at least if you cant find that super rare Hornby EMT mk3 catering vehicle, that sells for higher prices than a new Peckett, you can stick an LNER car in there..... or perhaps Hornby could spin the wheel on both these paint masks one more time, when considering that Pullman.

 

I can almost imagine someone saying “Gaaarish” in the same way someone said “Teedious”.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by adb968008

[tomparryharry]

2 hours ago, Philou said:

@tomparryharry I shouldn't be too sure about a 14xx 'just' pulling a couple coaches. I have some photos (borrowed off t'intertubes so won't post up here) showing 1427 waiting for 'right away' (shirley that ought to be 'right-of-way'?)  and has in its consist the following: a ventilated van, two 6-wheel coaches, another ventilated van, 2 7-planks and 4 5-planks all loaded with coal, plus a Toad at the rear - so a nice open cab 0-4-2 for a change would be good. Its replacement, 5818, is shown pulling similar loads - 10 assorted goods wagons including a steel 16 tonner plus a Toad - I'd have one of those too.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 Hello Phillip, your post precisely makes my point. A locomotive which is on a 'large train' is deserving of a photo to record it.  I should add that in their world, there is a timetable to keep.  

 

Cheers,

Ian.

Edited December 13, 2020 by tomparryharry
Added text.

[RyanN91]

2 hours ago, newbryford said:

Another garish livery.

Pity it's not "modern".............

Flickr Pic by RMwebber Jack

 

And the subject of many requests on this thread,

 

 

As long as it is in a gloss finish!