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Hornby 2021 - 4 & 6 wheel period coaches


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These will sell like hot cakes as there are only about 30 people on planet bothered by innacuracies  .Almost assured after all the codswallop on here .I seem to have read it all before .Maybe it was on the now loved Hattons thread.Hope some S&D come out before I kick off  due no doubt virus mutations and postmen who havnt read about any  distancing rules .

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1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

At the risk of upsetting some people, it isn't the lack of rollingstock, it is the lack of willingness to build what is already available in kit form. The pre-group railways are, and have been for quite a while, well provided by the 4mm kit producers, in moulded plastic, cast w/m (manly wagons), etched brass and latterly 3D printed. 

 

Assembling a rake of Ratio or Slaters wagons isn't too difficult and opens up a wide range of modelling opportunities. Powsides even supply Slaters POW wagon kits ready painted with transfers applied. In the context of this thread, plastic moulded carriages are less readily available but the no longer produced PC pre-group carriage kits with pre printed sides ,appear from time to time on Ebay.

 

For those willing to try building an etched kit, then there is a wonderfully wide range, but that requires rather more commitment, although I don't consider the processes involved beyond the majority of us.

 

If these coaches from Hornby (and those from Hattons), inspire people to really get into pre-group modelling - rather than just waiting for the manufacturers to produce what they want - then it would be great. 

 

 

 

Anyone who needs coaches for Hardwicke has the Ratio kits to use . Someone will correct me , but they might actually be correct for the 3 bogie coaches she was hauling on the final night of the race - certainly they are 1890s LNWR bogie stock. These are pretty buildable plastic kits of decent quality, readily available

 

The only difficulty is painting them in LNW livery. A bit like the only obstacle to walking from London to Paris is the bit between Dover and Calais

 

But I have always been struck by how much less we see of the Ratio LNW coaches, compared with the two MR ranges. The LNW coaches were more common , longer lived and lasted significantly later than the MR clerestories

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Sound like SDJR livery might become a bit of a race as to who will do it first... Will be interesting to see who wins... :)

Edited by SDJR7F88
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Very disappointing that Hornby appear to have repeated their now all-too-usual tactics here. Seems very underhand and spiteful.

As others have said, why not do pre-grouping bogie coaches instead? Even generic ones...

In my case, all this announcement has done is push me to order even more of the Hattons offerings.

Edited by Dragonfly
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Is there a potential logistical issue in all this for Hornby? Will every Hornby stockist have to stock the full range, and if so, how many of each livery and how many of each coach design?

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19 hours ago, LBSC123 said:

Does anyone know if any LBSC 6 wheelers made it into SR Green?

 

As I understand it, they only sent LBSC 4 wheelers over to the Island (and ex LCDR coaches with the centre wheel removed). 
 

I think I remember reading that some were possibly used for Lancing works trains(?), and a few LCDR 6 wheelers lasted into the 1930s on the mainland too.

Mike King's 'Southern coaches survey' book from a couple of years ago has details on this. Plenty of LBSC 6 wheel coaches lasted into Southern days and were painted green, but they were almost all the later Billington 6 wheelers. A few Stroudley 4 and 6 wheel coaches lasted until about 1924, but the books suggests that a lot of these only existed on paper (as the Southern discovered that LBSC record keeping was a bit lax and 'withdrew' long scrapped coaches).

 

There were large numbers of LCDR 6 wheelers still around on the mainland in the 1930s, although most of them were formed into 14 coach excursion sets by that point. Ditto LSWR 6 wheel stock - including some all first sets for race traffic (as a lot of race goers wanted to travel first class, even if it was in a moth eaten six wheeler).

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20 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

Anyone who needs coaches for Hardwicke has the Ratio kits to use . Someone will correct me , but they might actually be correct for the 3 bogie coaches she was hauling on the final night of the race - certainly they are 1890s LNWR bogie stock. These are pretty buildable plastic kits of decent quality, readily available

 

Happy to do so! 

 

The 50ft corridor carriages represented by the Ratio kits were built 1898-1902 and were the first LNWR corridor carriages. At the time of the Race to the North, 42ft carriages were the norm, with some 45ft-ers. I assume that the carriages used on the racing trains were WCJS rather than LNWR? WCJS carriages at that time were 8'6" wide whereas LNWR stock was 8'0" wide. 

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I've not seen anything on any of the usual channels /websites so I suspect the answer atm is a No but do we know if the middle wheelsets on the 5 wheel coaches are removable?

 

It's slightly annoying atm that the SR stock is 6 Wheel bar the brake and luggage van. So knowing whether the middle axle will be removable like the other generic range will be useful. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Frank Sharp said:

Now  we've got these coming what locos are there that would look right pulling them. Terrier, Beattie Well tank suitably back dated, Dean Goods, but very few.

 

Hattons (funnily enough) published one of their Formations Guide last year which gave a few options: -

https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=867#formations

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Pteremy said:

Is there a potential logistical issue in all this for Hornby? Will every Hornby stockist have to stock the full range, and if so, how many of each livery and how many of each coach design?

I counted 82.. plus a set.

 

Add to that mk4’s, BCK, Maunsell, plus other releases of Mk3’s (in 3 liveries)..

This year is year of the coach.

 

i dont know if the shop has enough space, but I dont.

Edited by adb968008
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3 hours ago, stephennicholson said:

 

Out of interest what is the easy amendment? I have two Adams liveried examples (Oxford) that could benefit from being "backdated"

 

The bunker coal rails, which, on the Hornby one at least, unclip.  The minor surgery is then to reduce the height of the tank filler that was obviously raised when the rails were added. 

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47 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I asked a while back about vital statistics. Are these known?

  • Length over end panels =
  • Width over panels =
  • Wheelbase = 

 

I wonder why I bothered to record that video sometimes...

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1 hour ago, PaulG said:

If you are going to produce a non prototypical carriage, why try and paint it in GNR, LNWR etc prototype livery, why not just make up an equally fictitious railway company name and livery, 

 

Well, some of us have!

 

Hattons' generic coaches will be entirely accurate to my Line, as I am inter alia its carriage superintendent!

 

Less sure I needed a second source of freelance coaches, but still ...

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55 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

I've not seen anything on any of the usual channels /websites so I suspect the answer atm is a No but do we know if the middle wheelsets on the 5 wheel coaches are removable?

 

It's slightly annoying atm that the SR stock is 6 Wheel bar the brake and luggage van. So knowing whether the middle axle will be removable like the other generic range will be useful. 

 

 

 

As far as I know, only 4 wheel coaches have been supplied for review so we haven't seen how the 6 wheel ones will work but I can't see why the wheels couldn't be removed.

 

Even less sign of the rarer 5 wheel version. ;-)

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57 minutes ago, jafcreasey said:

Hattons (funnily enough) published one of their Formations Guide last year

 

Is that a guide to real train formations (it contains at least two that aren't fish trains, bur smell very fishy to me), or more in the spirit of those old Meccano Magazine "this is what you can do with your Hornby Dublo" articles?

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59 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

I've not seen anything on any of the usual channels /websites so I suspect the answer atm is a No but do we know if the middle wheelsets on the 5 wheel coaches are removable?

 

 

 

 

So thats their answer to long rigid wheelbases on curves.:jester:

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1 hour ago, Ravenser said:

But I have always been struck by how much less we see of the Ratio LNW coaches, compared with the two MR ranges. The LNW coaches were more common , longer lived and lasted significantly later than the MR clerestories

 

It is slightly odd as the LNW prototypes look great but you have to remember there have been two RTR Midland Compound models out and a 1P in the works for much longer than there have been a Coal Tank (something which many, including myself until recently, think of as solely a goods loco) and much more recently, a Precedent. 

 

Additionally I would argue that the clerestories look and feel 'more LMS'. After all, they have always been red!

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2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

If what we see in the video is the finished item, then the livery application - for Great Western - is pretty ropey. I'm not convinced I see any gold lining, only highlight reflections from the beading edges, while the beading itself should be black (also on the ends) and the bolection mouldings a varnished wood colour, or red to match the droplight - see, for example, this preserved carriage at Didcot. (As has already been pointed out, the grab handles are the wrong way round.) It has to be noted, however, that on the evidence of the RM video of the Bachmann Midland 0-4-4T, we're not necessarily seeing the production model - there was a livery correction on the production models.

 

Another very peculiar thing that now leaps out at me is the position of the footboard. This is pretty universally aligned with the middle or the bottom edge of the solebar, not 9" below. It is also common (though not universal) for there to be a second footboard lower down, roughly on the line of the axles.

 

 

 

One can always find exceptions but pretty generally, yes they should.

 

I'm getting the distinct impression that if one was to put these side by side with the Hattons equivalent, one would conclude that either one is overpriced or the other underpriced! But of course we haven't actually seen a livery sample of the Hattons carriages in GW livery, to my knowledge.

 

 

 

And strangely for something which is claimed to have various individually applied parts it seemingly has nothing to make the brakes do what they should.   In that respect it is rather more 1970s in its overall level of detail, generic or not, than up to 2020s standards. 

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24 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

I wonder why I bothered to record that video sometimes...

 

I watched but didn't listen first time round...

 

Length over buffers reported as approx 115mm for 4 wheelers

Wheelbase 60mm

 

I am assuming buffers are approx 24" each end , equating to 100mm over the body , or 25'  (Hattons Genesis stock 26' 3" over body)

 

Width currently unknown 

 

Dims for the 6w stock currently unknown

 

The GN sample does not have the distinctive flat roof, though I don't know if this was typical of late GN suburban stock (replaced en masse in the mid 20's by Quad Artics because it was totally clapped out)

 

I presume we can look forward to a generic C12 4-4-2T next year to pull them, as SK is doubtless aware that 40C had 4 of them....

 

What pre-grouping companies with teak coach livery used arc-roofed 4 wheelers in suburban sets? NLR might be one 

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4 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

If you want to charge on-board batteries, the answer is to isolate your locos but power up the track under the coaches for however long it takes, before each running session. 

 

John   

 

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Or use another “off line” means (like USB or a charging mat) so you can play with something else whilst it is charging.

[Thats what I do]


 

 

Why not build a stock box wired up with connectors for each coach with a suitable common supply (USB or the like). I have given a couple of radio controlled 1/76 scale cars as Christmas presents and the cars are stored on the charger/control and can be fully charged in 90 seconds at the press of a button.

Edited by PhilJ W
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