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Hornby 2021 - Rocket packs


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1 hour ago, mozzer models said:

looking at the photo of rocket has the water tank been retooled with the end plank now without a cut though them 

I think what you are looking at there is a render of the model of Rocket not the model itself?   Hornby use renders and 'shopped photos a lot in their publicity.  The water tank is used to contain the DCC socket, so needs to be accessible somehow...

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It would be possible to extend the ends down without a split if there was sufficient mould draw so the lower semi-circle was part of the top half  (so forming an inverted U section), still retaining accesibilty. A case of wait and see. I think it would be a worthwhile improvement that would only need relatively minor tool alterations.

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23 hours ago, Isambard Smith said:

Ah , the rocket.

The 1st loco ever made and seemingly the only one built before the 1872 when an infinite number of terriers were introduced...

 

Indeed :lol:

 

I stumbled upon this short 'documentary' of the layout and amazing mid-victorian models of Mike Sharman, well worth a watch: 

 

 

Great untapped era and huge scope to model, such vibrant and unique designs from countless semi-forgotten companies. I'd love to build an LSWR Shark one day...

 

 

 

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Additionally, it would be really nice to see the Rocket range rolling stock wheels sold separately to aid scratch and kit builders. I can't seem to find any on eBay or Peter's Spares, unlike various bits of Rocket herself. Is this a likely prospect from Hornby in the future?

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1 hour ago, Otis JB said:

 

Indeed :lol:

 

I stumbled upon this short 'documentary' of the layout and amazing mid-victorian models of Mike Sharman, well worth a watch: 

 

 

Great untapped era and huge scope to model, such vibrant and unique designs from countless semi-forgotten companies. I'd love to build an LSWR Shark one day...

 

 

 

I've seen that, excellent stuff.

 

There is indeed a huge untapped well of prototypes for models covering the first half of the steam era...I suspect the main reason it remains so is that so few locos from that period lasted long enough to be painted in BR black  , and I suspect Hornby et al find that offputting

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Pricing of the set of three flat wagons, basically coach chassis is the same as for the set of three open body coaches...

 

So, more value in the open coaches, how easy do the bodies come off?

 

 

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Very, just one screw. It looks like the flat wagons have a floor, some planked plastic card would do as a substitute.

 

edit - it's actually two screws.

Edited by Nile
correction
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On 05/01/2021 at 19:21, BernardTPM said:

As far as I remember on the Ackerman print the Royal Mail coach had inside bearings, suggesting the body was narower than the standard coach.

Hi Bernard,

 

The first two mail coaches were built using the standard Wordsall type first class yellow coach with one compartment cut back and the seating altered to four to a compartment compared to six of the yellow coaches. The coaches converted were the Wellington and the Lord Derby, this may explain why the underframes of the red painted coaches were yellow, perhaps it was only the coach bodies were repainted.

A third coach was also converted, this was one of the converted horse drawn road type coach bodies that were mounted on a wagon underframe that had previously been used as first class coaches. These particular coaches had a two seat coupe at the front, a four seat closed compartment centre and the guards seat at the rear. It is likely that this coach had wheel sets with internal bearing journals.

The box that carried the Mails was always mounted upon the roof and was known as an "Imperial".

There was also a supplementary fare on top of first class to book and ride in the mail coach.

 

Gibbo.

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I'm potentially tempted by the single first coach and mail coach.

However I might also wait for seperate releases as the replica rocket, certainly in recent years, has only operated with the third class open coach, or just on its own without coaches.

 

It does seem a bit unfair for those who purchased the initial release (and supported Hornby through 2020) to now either do without the mail coach, or have to buy a whole additional set.....

Edited by G-BOAF
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On 06/01/2021 at 18:02, Otis JB said:

 

Indeed :lol:

 

I stumbled upon this short 'documentary' of the layout and amazing mid-victorian models of Mike Sharman, well worth a watch: 

 

 

Great untapped era and huge scope to model, such vibrant and unique designs from countless semi-forgotten companies. I'd love to build an LSWR Shark one day...

 

 

 

 

I wonder if those models and the layout still exist. Be a shame to discover it finished in a tip.

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Hi Folks,

 

I have been looking more deeply into L&MR coaches, and what a carry on !

 

I have found out that there were three first class coaches converted to mail coaches one of which seems to be Wellington that appears to be the one in the Ackerman print with internal axle bearings, one that is shewn as a blue mail coach in another print and looks much like the one I have built. Lastly one of which was a former road type coach body that had been mounted on a railway frame and had been used as first class previously, all very confusing but interesting. My thought is that Wellington was converted as it may have been non standard and perhaps the others had been collision damaged and that conversion was an economic form of repair.

 

2040570961_ac0136daa5fac0530ce37dbecc3236b3b2c15b59(4).jpg.0e95b8f976209748ef46accdecafbf6c.jpg

Wellington before conversion shewing the solid possibly wooden frame and internal axle bearings.

 

1803229391_ac0136daa5fac0530ce37dbecc3236b3b2c15b59(2).jpg.ce3418f2aa327cc9111518748fb511fd.jpg

Queen Adelaide before conversion to fully glazed, this is consistent with the style of the Hornby first class coaches which were built in 1930 by the LMS.

 

 

329178279_ac0136daa5fac0530ce37dbecc3236b3b2c15b59(5).jpg.877527275f3a13faa58fee46ee1a1ab9.jpg

Road type coach body

 

One coach I don't seem to be able to work out a true purpose or class wise is the one below, it is a rather strange affair altogether. I have seen that it appears in a plate Shewing Crown Street Liverpool in 1833 on page 118 of RHG Thomas' book about the L&MR. Does any one know ?

 

2034076538_ac0136daa5fac0530ce37dbecc3236b3b2c15b59(3).jpg.781a0e79d898c3ba477f0af93cf2d373.jpg

 

Another anomaly I have noted is a type of coach in a picture of Manchester Victoria on page 130 that has a closed compartment set between two open compartments that looks like an amalgamation of a blue second and a yellow first, this may have been a Manchester to Leeds Railway coach which did appear on through workings.

 

I think I shall have quite some fun building coaches to all sorts of styles and colours, I am busy making plans !

 

Gibbo.

 

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3 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Folks,

 

I have been looking more deeply into L&MR coaches, and what a carry on !

 

I have found out that there were three first class coaches converted to mail coaches one of which seems to be Wellington that appears to be the one in the Ackerman print with internal axle bearings, one that is shewn as a blue mail coach in another print and looks much like the one I have built. Lastly one of which was a former road type coach body that had been mounted on a railway frame and had been used as first class previously, all very confusing but interesting. My thought is that Wellington was converted as it may have been non standard and perhaps the others had been collision damaged and that conversion was an economic form of repair.

 

2040570961_ac0136daa5fac0530ce37dbecc3236b3b2c15b59(4).jpg.0e95b8f976209748ef46accdecafbf6c.jpg

Wellington before conversion shewing the solid possibly wooden frame and internal axle bearings.

 

1803229391_ac0136daa5fac0530ce37dbecc3236b3b2c15b59(2).jpg.ce3418f2aa327cc9111518748fb511fd.jpg

Queen Adelaide before conversion to fully glazed, this is consistent with the style of the Hornby first class coaches which were built in 1930 by the LMS.

 

 

329178279_ac0136daa5fac0530ce37dbecc3236b3b2c15b59(5).jpg.877527275f3a13faa58fee46ee1a1ab9.jpg

Road type coach body

 

One coach I don't seem to be able to work out a true purpose or class wise is the one below, it is a rather strange affair altogether. I have seen that it appears in a plate Shewing Crown Street Liverpool in 1833 on page 118 of RHG Thomas' book about the L&MR. Does any one know ?

 

2034076538_ac0136daa5fac0530ce37dbecc3236b3b2c15b59(3).jpg.781a0e79d898c3ba477f0af93cf2d373.jpg

 

Another anomaly I have noted is a type of coach in a picture of Manchester Victoria on page 130 that has a closed compartment set between two open compartments that looks like an amalgamation of a blue second and a yellow first, this may have been a Manchester to Leeds Railway coach which did appear on through workings.

 

I think I shall have quite some fun building coaches to all sorts of styles and colours, I am busy making plans !

 

Gibbo.

 

At least no-one will see your pictures or approach a layout with them on at an exhibition and say ‘that’s not how I remember those looking...’

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9 minutes ago, ovbulleid said:

At least no-one will see your pictures or approach a layout with them on at an exhibition and say ‘that’s not how I remember those looking...’

Hi There,

 

 You are quite right, my great, great, great grandfather would have trouble doing that and he had his own railway carriage that was kept at Leyburn and attached to trains for him to travel to Darlington back in the day !

 

I think that is part of the appeal that it is something different with unusual stock and working prctices that no one can say for certain is one way or another however much research you may put into a project. The 1930's LMS built coaches were made from part drawings and knowledge of the technology of the day combined with the pictures above and likely some guess work. All good fun.

 

Gibbo.

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43 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Folks,

 

I have been looking more deeply into L&MR coaches, and what a carry on !

 

 

 

One coach I don't seem to be able to work out a true purpose or class wise is the one below, it is a rather strange affair altogether. I have seen that it appears in a plate Shewing Crown Street Liverpool in 1833 on page 118 of RHG Thomas' book about the L&MR. Does any one know ?

 

2034076538_ac0136daa5fac0530ce37dbecc3236b3b2c15b59(3).jpg.781a0e79d898c3ba477f0af93cf2d373.jpg

 

Gibbo.

 

 

Could that be due to cultural differences?

 

I know the Chinese at the time were very reluctant to integrate and were quite secretive. They probably also travelled with their livestock like they still do in parts of rural China. But quite a few of them were businessmen and traders.

 

Worth considering Crown Street was right next to Chinatown.

 

 

Jason

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2 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Could that be due to cultural differences?

 

I know the Chinese at the time were very reluctant to integrate and were quite secretive. They probably also travelled with their livestock like they still do in parts of rural China. But quite a few of them were businessmen and traders.

 

Worth considering Crown Street was right next to Chinatown.

 

 

Jason

Hi Jason,

 

Certainly plausible as the carriage has a pagoda style roof and is in the yellow first class livery. The first Opium  War was between 1839 and 1842, which was all to do with trading routes and access to ports which goes along with what you say. The traveling with livestock may account for what appears to be bars on the windows ?!?!

 

More reading and looking closely at pictures is required.

 

Gibbo.

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18 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Jason,

 

Certainly plausible as the carriage has a pagoda style roof and is in the yellow first class livery. The first Opium  War was between 1839 and 1842, which was all to do with trading routes and access to ports which goes along with what you say. The traveling with livestock may account for what appears to be bars on the windows ?!?!

 

More reading and looking closely at pictures is required.

 

Gibbo.

Could it have been some sort of advertising gimmick for companies supplying goods from the orient, much as companies put their logos on shipping containers? There was certainly an ‘opening up’ of the Far East at this time with high demand for goods from there, the bars could have been to stop pilfering of stock when the (mixed) trains were in stations. 

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3 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Folks,

 

I have been looking more deeply into L&MR coaches, and what a carry on !

 

I have found out that there were three first class coaches converted to mail coaches one of which seems to be Wellington that appears to be the one in the Ackerman print with internal axle bearings, one that is shewn as a blue mail coach in another print and looks much like the one I have built. Lastly one of which was a former road type coach body that had been mounted on a railway frame and had been used as first class previously, all very confusing but interesting. My thought is that Wellington was converted as it may have been non standard and perhaps the others had been collision damaged and that conversion was an economic form of repair.

 

2040570961_ac0136daa5fac0530ce37dbecc3236b3b2c15b59(4).jpg.0e95b8f976209748ef46accdecafbf6c.jpg

Wellington before conversion shewing the solid possibly wooden frame and internal axle bearings.

 

1803229391_ac0136daa5fac0530ce37dbecc3236b3b2c15b59(2).jpg.ce3418f2aa327cc9111518748fb511fd.jpg

Queen Adelaide before conversion to fully glazed, this is consistent with the style of the Hornby first class coaches which were built in 1930 by the LMS.

 

 

329178279_ac0136daa5fac0530ce37dbecc3236b3b2c15b59(5).jpg.877527275f3a13faa58fee46ee1a1ab9.jpg

Road type coach body

 

One coach I don't seem to be able to work out a true purpose or class wise is the one below, it is a rather strange affair altogether. I have seen that it appears in a plate Shewing Crown Street Liverpool in 1833 on page 118 of RHG Thomas' book about the L&MR. Does any one know ?

 

2034076538_ac0136daa5fac0530ce37dbecc3236b3b2c15b59(3).jpg.781a0e79d898c3ba477f0af93cf2d373.jpg

 

Another anomaly I have noted is a type of coach in a picture of Manchester Victoria on page 130 that has a closed compartment set between two open compartments that looks like an amalgamation of a blue second and a yellow first, this may have been a Manchester to Leeds Railway coach which did appear on through workings.

 

I think I shall have quite some fun building coaches to all sorts of styles and colours, I am busy making plans !

 

Gibbo.

 

 

They make Ivor the Engine look like a true story.

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The ackermann drawing describes it as a “private” carriage.

 

https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/coaches-c-employed-on-the-railway-ackermann-rudolph-publisher/wwFShGvgsz0-qg?ms={"x"%3A0.5%2C"y"%3A0.5%2C"z"%3A9.190141485052258%2C"size"%3A{"width"%3A0.9506079027355624%2C"height"%3A1.5033254261735078}}

A look through that site will give insight to the first “motorail” and the first “tourist open” too presumably models for 2022...

 

Motorail is a flat wagon, with a horse drawn carriage loaded (and with passengers of course seated in their “carriage”)


The tourist open is a very flamboyent looking blue open, with curved sides and no doors.. I can see where the LMS got their “3rd class” one from.. its different to the Ackermann 3rd.. looks more like a fairground ride car. Same print has the LMS style 3rds, but with a canvas looking roof sheet.

 

Edited by adb968008
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Hi Folks,

 

Here are two coaches coupled with some blackened chain I got from eBay, it is eight links per inch and allows the coaches to negotiate first radius set track. I cut a length five links long and I made my coupling hook from a piece of paperclip wire, I guess in time y Hornby coaches will in time require new wire hooks too.

 

120122503_DSCF13361.JPG.9e9f05916dfb906aaf8de12798a0c8fc.JPG

 

Gibbo.

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 I think it would be good if Hornby released the following of more locomotives/rolling stock passenger packs,

 

A First class carriage 3 pack of the 3 first class coaches on their own.

 

Rocket locomotive on it's own.

 

Or for this new train pack a Rocket coach pack of the remaining two First Class carriages. 

 

Royal Mail coach available separately on its own as a standalone release.  

 

This way all of my suggestions along with the current announced Rocket packs rolling stock, that are available people could therefore have all of the Rocket rolling stock in which ever combination of packs along with the Rocket. But who knows? My suggestions are purely speculation.

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