coachmann Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 It will be interesting to see how things go from a sales viewpoint. If Blue Pullmans outsell normal loco hauled carriage stock, we could end up with more complete sets covering the LNER streamliners and SR electric trains. Come to think of it, it is already underway with vintage Pullman sets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsmb Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 There is demand for the APT, you only have to look at the prices the sets go for on eBay. Were Hornby to produce the missing vehicles then I'd be very happy. Basically what is missing is a car with half an articulated bogie at each end. Only one body shell is really required to match the train as produced, the slot-in window strip mouldings could accomodate the differences for the buffet car. As it is, in order to make the missing cars you have to cut up two vehicles from the production set. Each five car set bought gives the parts needed for two intermediate cars, and leaves a surplus power car. In order to make the full formation 14 car set it is necessary to obtain 5 five car sets. The full formation has two power cars and of the five bought sets you are left with a lot of scrap half chassis' of cars, lots of complete top halves of driving trailers and three complete power cars. I'd love to know how many full formation sets have been made by modellers, I only know of two, mine and Doodaa's. Andi Dagworth, I have a full rake as well, power 4 trailers -then dummy power car, in the Blue grey livery with double arrow symbol, I will upload a pic for you guys as my layout is set in 1968:) I'm really pleased Hornby are sorting this out, also can they reintroduce super 4 as I use that on my layout-no probs whatsoever, with curved points etc in steel or nickel silver..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 I have a full rake as well, power 4 trailers -then dummy power car, in the Blue grey livery with double arrow symbol Do you really mean an APT-P in blue/grey with double arrows or are you getting confused with the Blue Pullman? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsmb Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Do you really mean an APT-P in blue/grey with double arrows or are you getting confused with the Blue Pullman? er no, it is a triang Hornby blue pullman mate, and the APT-P is not my era of operations! I was on about a blue pullman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted July 30, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 30, 2010 er no, it is a triang Hornby blue pullman mate, and the APT-P is not my era of operations! I was on about a blue pullman Dagworth's post was about the APT, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsmb Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Dagworth's post was about the APT, though. ah fair enough - my fault didn't read it properly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidBird Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 There is demand for the APT, ... I'd love to know how many full formation sets have been made by modellers, I only know of two, mine and Doodaa's. Andi Of course if you want a 14-car full train, as would have happened if only they'd kept on just a little bit longer, you will need to source extra vehicles from somewhere. But if you don't have room/don't want to pay ridiculous ebay prices/can't cut-and-shut well enough, then how about just running the Hornby set as it is? This video on Youtube (from about 4mins50 onwards) shows a 5-car set, just as the Hornby model is. I'll be running mine as a 5-car, just after the Dapol Trackcleaner repainted in RTC red/blue as part of the APT test train... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted August 8, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 8, 2010 Of course if you want a 14-car full train, as would have happened if only they'd kept on just a little bit longer, you will need to source extra vehicles from somewhere. Yep, by cutting up other sets..... But if you don't have room/don't want to pay ridiculous ebay prices/can't cut-and-shut well enough, then how about just running the Hornby set as it is? This video on Youtube (from about 4mins50 onwards) shows a 5-car set, just as the Hornby model is. Have a look down the suggested videos on the link, half way down you'll see "14 car APT at speed through Ravensclyffe", that's my set Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Bus Driver Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 Heinz have apparently found moulds for 1962 Tube Stock Now that would make a good RTR idea... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted August 31, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2010 ..... and then there was the MRC article way-back, about upgrading Tri-ang locos with Hornby Dublo wheels, entitled "Trinby or Ho-ang" !! Regards, John Isherwood. What about, Um err Triang-Hornby !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireline Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 What about, Um err Triang-Hornby !! Just as a matter of interest, if Hornby did release a Railroad type version of the Blue Pullman, how many people would be interested? I know most people are serious modellers here, but I would have thought there was room for it. It doesn't fit my era at all, but even if it did, I couldn't afford the price quoted for the Bachmann version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron14xx Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Personally, I think that if Hornby were to re-release thier Blue Pullman it would be good idea. The new Bachmann midland pullman costs $500 where I live which by anyones standards is quite a lot. You can still pick an original Blue Pullman quite cheeply (which I did!) for less than $100 for a 3 car set. Basically, what I'm saying is that Hornby have the potential to make a reasonable detailed Blue Pullman that the average modeller on a tight budget can buy, and they should realise this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Hornby have gone into this and I believe sent the old tools to China for evaluation. I cannot quickly find the actual quotation, but what was put out was to the effect that even if the tools were usable, they would only enable the production of a 1960s standard product of two generic and inaccurate vehicles, and even that would demand a significant tooling investment to bring to market, as new running chassis would be required. As I read it, my interpretation was 'too low in quality in a number of respects to meet current expectations even of re-releases'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Basically, what I'm saying is that Hornby have the potential to make a reasonable detailed Blue Pullman that the average modeller on a tight budget can buy, and they should realise this. Except they don't. They might have the ability to make a reasonable toy, but to make it into a reasonably accurate representation of a Blue Pullman would require retooling the power cars, retooling (scrapping and making new tooling) the existing coach, tooling at least one new coach, tooling new underframes for all. The only thing that they would realisticly be able to reuse is the name. The only thing they could do with the existing tooling (assuming it is useable) is make a 'retro' set as they did for 'Lord of the Isles'. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed a/c Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Doubt that it would be cheaper if you ask me (based on RRP) Using the HST & MK3 as an example it would cost Power & dummy £180.99 4 cars @ £27.49 each = £109.96 Total £290.95 or using the Brighton Belle as an example Power car set £184.49 4 cars @ £47.99 each = £191.96 Total £376.45 Hardly cheap if you ask me and I personally know which maker I would go with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted December 4, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2012 i am sure the Hornby BP is dead in the water, if as said one could only make a 1960s standard BP with the tooling why bother, there are always Tri-ang BPs at exhibitions and swap meets at quite cheap prices, why go over the same old ground? To be fair to Hornby they have never hinted at making a Railroad version. I believe Hornby have enough problems without making complete idiots of themselves doing this. TBH it would be kind to let this thread die a natural death. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Scottish Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 The market is not there. Back in the 60s the train was contemporary and so the market was train sets and aimed at kids who wanted a model of the train they had just seen or travelled on. The model was OK for trainset market back then. Wind onto now and the market for the Blue Pullman is the discerning modeller which is well served by the Bachmann version. Kids not interested, therefore a trainset version is dead in the water. I did wonder if Hornby would bring this out as a Railroad spoiler to Bachmann, but I think they would only succeed in looking foolish. But, mind you, this is the company that proposed a black Acorp 87 with very limited appeal..................so who knows! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron14xx Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Except they don't. They might have the ability to make a reasonable toy, but to make it into a reasonably accurate representation of a Blue Pullman would require retooling the power cars, retooling (scrapping and making new tooling) the existing coach, tooling at least one new coach, tooling new underframes for all. The only thing that they would realisticly be able to reuse is the name. The only thing they could do with the existing tooling (assuming it is useable) is make a 'retro' set as they did for 'Lord of the Isles'. Adrian The Hornby railroad Class 08 is still the same moulding as the one made in the 50's, and it's still being used today, with little or no modification from what I can tell. What you mentioned about doing a retro style Blue Pullman like the Lord of the Isles could be a feasible idea, but all this depends on what condition the moulds are in. As said before, if there is demand for the models, then why not do a special run of about 2 thousand, keeping some of the original body moulding, but with a much more modern chassis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 The Hornby railroad Class 08 is still the same moulding as the one made in the 50's, and it's still being used today, with little or no modification from what I can tell. No it's not - it's the based on the replacement tooling that was made in the 70's. Similary the Jinty is from the 70's rather than the 50's. What you mentioned about doing a retro style Blue Pullman like the Lord of the Isles could be a feasible idea, but all this depends on what condition the moulds are in. As said before, if there is demand for the models, then why not do a special run of about 2 thousand, keeping some of the original body moulding, but with a much more modern chassis. I think the issue is that the Blue Pullman tooling is unusable and pretty much worn out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 As said before, if there is demand for the models, then why not do a special run of about 2 thousand, keeping some of the original body moulding, but with a much more modern chassis. I doubt it would be any cheaper than a Bachmann one if they only released 2000 of them and certainly not a very profitable idea. I'd think they'd need to sell a lot more to make a new chassis viable but as the others have said, there probably isn't a casual market for a train long scrapped which now has an accurate model available to modellers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron14xx Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I doubt it would be any cheaper than a Bachmann one if they only released 2000 of them and certainly not a very profitable idea. I'd think they'd need to sell a lot more to make a new chassis viable but as the others have said, there probably isn't a casual market for a train long scrapped which now has an accurate model available to modellers. There must be a market for a model Blue Pullman, otherwise, why would Bachmann bring out a brand new model? If the toolings for the Triang model are knackered, don't bother Hornby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesthecat Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 That's the whole point there is no market for a blue Pullman now as Bachmann have just taken it! Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Triang Paul Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Hornby were just TOO LATE and have lost out. ( again....... ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2012 Hornby were just TOO LATE and have lost out. ( again....... ) We don't really know that do we - one way or the other. Hornby decided not to invest in the Blue Pullman and went for the Brighton Belle (which happened to fit in fairly well with their existing Pullman car manufacturing experience and which hit the market at a different price point because it need not be sold as a complete unit train). We already have one publicised example of a Bachmann dealer who cannot get stock of a new loco (the ex SECR C) because according to what they are telling their customers they were up to their credit limit at Bachmann due to buying in Blue Pullman sets. Just put a second manufacturer knocking out Blue Pullmans, or bits thereof, into the same market place - firstly can the retailers afford to stock both; secondly if the Hornby version followed the Brighton Belle approach would dealers be prepared to accept the stock holding headaches of various individual coaches selling at different rates with some sticking on the shelves for months; and thirdly, and most important of all, would the market be big enough? Just how many thousand Blue Pullman sets are going to sell in the retail market at the best part of £300 or more and who pays the interest while they sit on retailers' shelves? If Hornby had got there first how well might it have sold on the strength of, say, quality on a par with a certain emu or prices on a par with the latest round of RRP for LNER coaching stock? I realise many of these are unaswerable but they would have been equally unanswerable, beyond possible returns from market research, for a manufacturer. Bachmann decided to take the risk (but they could spread it over two scales), Hornby didn't - and gave us other things instead. We still don't know if, as far as the retail trade is concerned, Bachmann's decision has paid off but if in a few months the sets start appearing at cost price plus we might be able to make an educated guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Hi Hornby should have done it years ago when everyone was wanting it, if only Hornby had their ear to what people wanted,unfountly Hornby do not listen/talk to anyone one about what people really want, How many time’s over the years did the Blue Pullman come out on the wish list. If they go down the road of bring out the old Blue Pullman model I do not see it would sell that well, even if they sick it in the rail road range. The only way I can see them doing this is to sell it a very low price, I mean who would pay for a warmed over/retooled model at an over inflated price? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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