Dapol Class 21/29

[davknigh]

Just wondering. Is the 21/29 going to be a limited edition run like the 22 being produced for Kernow or will it be general availability?

 

Hi David,

 

not sure where you got that info from but the class 22 is for all stockists who want to order it, and so will the 21/29 be

Hope this helps

Cheers

 

Dave

Dapol Ltd

 

Hi Dave

 

Thanks for the correction. I mad an assumption cos the projected 22 was easy to find on the Kernow site and not so easy to find on other sites (I got lazy). Note to self: engage brain before typing

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Captain Kernow]

I think you're mixing up the Kernow D500's with the class 22's...

Make that the Kernow D600s, and we're practically there!

[The Stationmaster]

Make that the Kernow D600s, and we're practically there!

 

 

 

Frequently seen on the S&D I believe Cap'n

 

 

[D6975]

Well, as far as locos are concerned, that just about makes everything I want either available or going to be, except......

 

 

[Charlie]

Make that the Kernow D600s, and we're practically there!

 

 

And I thought the tired dyslexic had got away with it.... Incidently, any further news on these?

[Gwiwer]

Incidently, any further news on these?

 

A quick check of the Kernow website will find the current information which is

delivery is expected during 2011.

 

Having no surviving prototype to work from or scan it does take a lot longer to produce these items than for their commissions where a laser scan is readily available. That's assuming they have access to drawings - if they only have photos to go on then I'll take my hat off to Dapol Dave and his crew if these arrive half as good as they should.

['CHARD]

It shows how out of touch I've been lately; only just noticed this fantastic announcement. Great news indeed. And judging by the jaw-droppingly awesome 22s on the stand last weekend, these will be absolutely delightful. Can't wait.

 

Adding my thanks DD. Nice one

[Andrew F]

Some mundane details that may be overshadowed by more important stuff are the extra rain gutters over the side grilles that the Class 29 received (but not the 21 as far as I know). The additional vertical pair of grilles on the 29 were not guttered on the engines with disc headcodes but the gutter extends to cover them on the examples with central 4-digit codes. Also watch out for the grille hinges as the 21 and 29's with discs have the paired vents side hinged whereas the 4-digit loco's have their paired vents hinged horizontally. There may be or may not be variations of this but it's definetaly something to watch out for as well as considering the additions (and blanked 21's exhaust) to the 29's central roof area.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[Pete Piszczek]

Yeah this is really a great announcement!

 

Looking forward to having a few, since they ran in pairs, probably need more than one!

[The Stationmaster]

Yeah this is really a great announcement!

 

Looking forward to having a few, since they ran in pairs, probably need more than one!

 

 

They very definitely didn't run in pairs on the West Highland Extension (or if they did I must have had far more of the 'water of life' that I thought I had during a weekend at Morar and the one I footplated from Mallaig to Fort William and back to Morar was very definitely all on its lonesome).

 

[Baby Deltic]

Some mundane details that may be overshadowed by more important stuff are the extra rain gutters over the side grilles that the Class 29 received (but not the 21 as far as I know). The additional vertical pair of grilles on the 29 were not guttered on the engines with disc headcodes but the gutter extends to cover them on the examples with central 4-digit codes. Also watch out for the grille hinges as the 21 and 29's with discs have the paired vents side hinged whereas the 4-digit loco's have their paired vents hinged horizontally. There may be or may not be variations of this but it's definetaly something to watch out for as well as considering the additions (and blanked 21's exhaust) to the 29's central roof area.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

 

I think only D6123 kept its disc headcodes and doors after conversion to a class 29 because it was the first one. D6123 was converted at Paxman's in Colchester, whereas the others were done at St Rollox IIRC.

Another thing to watch out for if you are doing D6123 is that it had twin arm wipers in the usual position for a while, and I think I'm correct in saying it had no white stripe in its original two tone livery.

[Trevor H]

Some mundane details that may be overshadowed by more important stuff are the extra rain gutters over the side grilles that the Class 29 received (but not the 21 as far as I know). The additional vertical pair of grilles on the 29 were not guttered on the engines with disc headcodes but the gutter extends to cover them on the examples with central 4-digit codes. Also watch out for the grille hinges as the 21 and 29's with discs have the paired vents side hinged whereas the 4-digit loco's have their paired vents hinged horizontally. There may be or may not be variations of this but it's definetaly something to watch out for as well as considering the additions (and blanked 21's exhaust) to the 29's central roof area.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

 

A class 21 did receive the rain gutters and was D6152, this was the only one I have seen, although their could of been others, but doubtful.

 

As BD mentions D6123 was the only class 29 to carry headcode discs and as you mention Andy, It didn't carry rain gutters over either the extra fitted grilles, nor the original centre grilles. D6123 also had the grill hinges in the same place as other class 29s

 

 

I think only D6123 kept its disc headcodes and doors after conversion to a class 29 because it was the first one. D6123 was converted at Paxman's in Colchester, whereas the others were done at St Rollox IIRC.

Another thing to watch out for if you are doing D6123 is that it had twin arm wipers in the usual position for a while, and I think I'm correct in saying it had no white stripe in its original two tone livery.

 

You are correct BD D6123 never received the white stripe when first in TTG livery, but was added in 1965, at the same time the wipers were moved to the same position as other class 29s. It also received full yellow fronts c1970/71.

 

Hope this helps

Trevor.

[Ian J.]

Talking of liveries, did any of the 21s ever receive BR Blue? a few 29s did but I haven't seen any photo evidence for 21s ever getting it.

[carderrail]

Talking of liveries, did any of the 21s ever receive BR Blue? a few 29s did but I haven't seen any photo evidence for 21s ever getting it.

 

It looks like D6109 received BR Blue (in some guise) but was not fully converted to a Class 29 with replacement engine.

 

There has been a previous post on this - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/20925-d6109-in-traction-magazine/

 

My fingers are crossed that Dapol produce an N Gauge version at some point......

 

Regards

 

Tony

[essexexpress]

I think only D6123 kept its disc headcodes and doors after conversion to a class 29 because it was the first one. D6123 was converted at Paxman's in Colchester, whereas the others were done at St Rollox IIRC.

Another thing to watch out for if you are doing D6123 is that it had twin arm wipers in the usual position for a while, and I think I'm correct in saying it had no white stripe in its original two tone livery.

 

Just to add a little more to this, legend has it (well my dad told me, he used to work for Regulators Europa which was sort of part of Paxmans) that the first was re engined at Britania Works which was next to St Botolphs (now Colchester Town) station, this was rail linked unlike Paxmans main Hythe Hill site.

 

It would be interseting to know however if more 29's were converted at Colchester or if the remainder were all done in Glasgow.

 

There used to be a rail link directly into the factory, and if you go to the site of the works (which is now a car park) you can actually see the evidence of where the track used to be.

 

Mike

[Baby Deltic]

Just to add a little more to this, legend has it (well my dad told me, he used to work for Regulators Europa which was sort of part of Paxmans) that the first was re engined at Britania Works which was next to St Botolphs (now Colchester Town) station, this was rail linked unlike Paxmans main Hythe Hill site.

 

It would be interseting to know however if more 29's were converted at Colchester or if the remainder were all done in Glasgow.

 

There used to be a rail link directly into the factory, and if you go to the site of the works (which is now a car park) you can actually see the evidence of where the track used to be.

 

Mike

 

I think it was just D6123. No doubt the loco had an entourrage of BR technical staff with it to see how the mods were done, and get some gen on the Paxman Ventura.

[Trevor H]

Just to add a little more to this, legend has it (well my dad told me, he used to work for Regulators Europa which was sort of part of Paxmans) that the first was re engined at Britania Works which was next to St Botolphs (now Colchester Town) station, this was rail linked unlike Paxmans main Hythe Hill site.

 

It would be interseting to know however if more 29's were converted at Colchester or if the remainder were all done in Glasgow.

 

There used to be a rail link directly into the factory, and if you go to the site of the works (which is now a car park) you can actually see the evidence of where the track used to be.

 

Mike

 

 

D6112 was sent to Colchester as well, some 7 months before D6123. And after spending well over a year at Colchester, was returned to Scotland still with It's MAN engine, It would continue to be kept in store around Glasgow and finally received It's Paxman engine at Glasgow Works in 1966, some 4 1/2 years after been in store.

 

All the other class 29s were rebuilt and fitted with Paxman engines at Glasgow and Inverurie Works, without checking I believe Inverurie did six conversions.

 

Around the same time of the class 29 conversions, many class 21's would be getting their MAN engines refurbished. This Included some locos that had been allocated for class 29 conversion, but for whatever reason found not to be suitable and others would be chosen instead. The oddest one been D6109, which had the bodywork done for a class 29 at Inverurie, but had It's original MAN engine refitted.

 

The oddest conversion though would of been, the plan to convert the first 38 class 21's to a single cab loco, D6130 entered NBL at Queens Park in 1962 for assessment, thankfully NBL wound up that year, otherwise we could of seen some strange looking cl20's.

[Pennine MC]

The oddest conversion though would of been, the plan to convert the first 38 class 21's to a single cab loco, D6130 entered NBL at Queens Park in 1962 for assessment, thankfully NBL wound up that year, otherwise we could of seen some strange looking cl20's

Didnt one Mr Pisczcek once have the idea to do one of those

[Trevor H]

Didnt one Mr Pisczcek once have the idea to do one of those

I think he did and wasn't their some drawings floating about on what it could of looked like, maybe that was Pete as well, I can't remember now.

 

 

 

[Baby Deltic]

I think he did and wasn't their some drawings floating about on what it could of looked like:), maybe that was Pete as well, I can't remember now.

 

 

 

 

That was on rmweb 1 or 2 IIRC. The data has probably been lost now. I seem to recall he superimposed a class 20 bonnet and NBL cab.

[Trevor H]

That was on rmweb 1 or 2 IIRC. The data has probably been lost now. I seem to recall he superimposed a class 20 bonnet and NBL cab.

You could be right, I know it was a long time ago.

 

Pete is still on RMweb, so if it was his work it could well turn up again

 

Edit: It was Pete and I just checked his fotopic site

http://ardleybridge.fotopic.net/c964391.html

 

 

[Pete Piszczek]

Edit: It was Pete and I just checked his fotopic site

http://ardleybridge....et/c964391.html

 

Just in case it isn't obvious on the site, I never actually bashed one of these beasts in model form. The photos are a bit of photo shop trickery, showing what the hybrid might have looked like...

 

Something to consider when the Heljan Class 21/29 comes out.

[D605Eagle]

A class 21 did receive the rain gutters and was D6152, this was the only one I have seen, although their could of been others, but doubtful.

 

As BD mentions D6123 was the only class 29 to carry headcode discs and as you mention Andy, It didn't carry rain gutters over either the extra fitted grilles, nor the original centre grilles. D6123 also had the grill hinges in the same place as other class 29s

 

 

 

 

You are correct BD D6123 never received the white stripe when first in TTG livery, but was added in 1965, at the same time the wipers were moved to the same position as other class 29s. It also received full yellow fronts c1970/71.

 

Hope this helps

Trevor.

Theres a good colour picture of it here:-

http://grahame910.fotopic.net/p62258813.html

It was still with a small yellow panel on 1/11/1970, so it must have been repainted not long after that. I must say it does look particularly hideous with full yellows. Also of interest, note the bars across the door windows, I've only found evidence of D6103,6,7 having them.

Does anybody know why D6108, one of the last conversions, was withdrawn so early? It ran for only a year after conversion as far as I can make out. IIRC I have a photo of it somewhere after it was withdrawn looking pretty spick and span.

Jim

[Guest Max Stafford]

Just in case it isn't obvious on the site, I never actually bashed one of these beasts in model form. The photos are a bit of photo shop trickery, showing what the hybrid might have looked like...

 

Something to consider when the Heljan Class 21/29 comes out.

 

 

That's just bl00dy wrong, that...!

 

Maybe they would just have done them as paired carbody A-A units. A certain admission that they weren't reliable enough to work singly! Scope for an interesting 'cut and shut' too.

 

Dave.

[Baby Deltic]

Theres a good colour picture of it here:-

http://grahame910.fo.../p62258813.html

It was still with a small yellow panel on 1/11/1970, so it must have been repainted not long after that. I must say it does look particularly hideous with full yellows. Also of interest, note the bars across the door windows, I've only found evidence of D6103,6,7 having them.

Does anybody know why D6108, one of the last conversions, was withdrawn so early? It ran for only a year after conversion as far as I can make out. IIRC I have a photo of it somewhere after it was withdrawn looking pretty spick and span.

Jim

 

I think the position of the windscreen wipers made the class 29's look particulaly ugly with full yellow ends, compared to the class 22's.