iak Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Doh!!! Read the thread and find the answer So its D10's and D11's under the roof then maybe. Sorry I can never get used to seeing LMS/LMR motive power in piccies of "Central" without the odd old GCR beauty lurking B) And having just looked at ones gallery, I am even more impressed Ron. Simply gorgeous... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpster Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Blimey, that's one hell of a model! It looks like hours and hours of work have gone into this work of art. I very much look forward to seeing more. Arp Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iankemp Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 you sure you didn't get someone in to build that? looks like an architects model! maybe you should do that for a living!! That is one hell of a model to build! So come on how long did it take you to build that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted January 4, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2011 Good grief, that is truly amazing. Thanks for posting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Thanks for all your enthusiastic comments. Hopefully, this post will answer all your queries I retired in Jan 2003, and started research and trial builds in Feb 2004. Modelling all the various station structures, such as the roof, platform canopies, signal box, bridges, viaducts, pubs, shops, canal locks, etc. and some trackwork has taken so far about 6 years. This last year has been taken up by our move to Spain and getting a good architect to remodel our villa underbuild into one open area without pillars or internal walls for use as a railway room. Hopefully by the end of summer this year I can start to build the open frame baseboards, and really start to build the railway The gables are reasonably rigid, they resist twisting and will take a good load, including an inadvertent fall without damage. The spans when tied together with the transverse beams are also reasonably rigid. I think this says a lot for the prototype structural design The past few years has put a squeeze on plastic strip and extrusion supplies, as most model shops only carry small stocks, and re-ordering is a two to four week cycle. But regular bulk orders usually spur the suppliers to deliver Statistics - On the station roof structure alone there is in excess of 35,000 individual pieces of plastic strip/extrusion. That has taken some cutting, and a large number of replacement knife blades. Although the roof is not yet complete, all the individual pieces have been cut and stored in separate containers awaiting the final push A typical span use to take about 8 hours, including the individual cutting of strip. But after the bulk cutting project, a span now takes under 3 hours The gables each took about a week, plus 2 days for the glazing bars and glazing Usually, I shuffle between building tasks on different individual structures. This keeps the mind alert and stops the feeling of lack of progress from building up The Deansgate Bridge with the electric signalling gantry which is a mixture of foamboard, mount board and printed card brickwork, with plastic for the ornamental bridge steelwork and the gantry, and re-modelling the Eckon LED signal with hidden wiring, took in total about 10 days. That includes the CAD drawing and total build time. Some of the incidental buildings, such as the Crown Hotel on Deansgate also took about 10 days, whereas the Castlefield Viaduct took in excess of two weeks, and is an ongoing project I have started a trial build of the original Castlefield Viaduct, which spans the MSJ&R into Salford, and is far more detailed, but it is only a single span But today, I am re-building the Station Restaurant block, which was part of the trial build, and will incorporate correct dimensions and detailing, and plastic strip built windows (there is only 20, so not worth going for etched brass) 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackrob Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 This is phenomenal! How did you become so good at model making? Those structures look professional quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 This is phenomenal! How did you become so good at model making? Those structures look professional quality. Although I have an engineering degree, and was chief engineer for almost 30 of my 38 years in one the largest construction companies in Europe, and also wrote engineering design software during 25 of those years, my passions have always been mathematics, painting and drawing I had never attempted modelling until this project, that is why I built a trial model of part of the station. Just to see if it modelling was within my abilities, and was up to a standard acceptable to myself I suppose my whole background has brought me to this most enjoyable pastime 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugs bunny Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I can only echo everybody else's comments fantastic.......looking forward to seeing more. Kind regards Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 4, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2011 So, once again RMWeb introduces me to modelling on an implausible scale. I am not familiar with the original, having only arrived there once, on 26th September 1970, but I seemed to get regular invitations to events at Gmex in my last years at work. Anyway, who gives a stuff when I can enjoy this superb reconstruction in 4mm. Terribly impressed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinW Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Hi Ron, Have just seen your pics in the gallery, got to say your buildings are stunning. look forward to seeing more of them. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 fantastic work Ron, sorry if its been asked before, will you be doing the whole roof, a freind of mine is building Liverpool lime st in 4mm and has decided to have a few sections removable/open to allow people to see in, I think having the entire roof would be good even if its only practicle to use it when taking photos etc. Ive often wondered if the roof at Manchester central shared any design similarities with the now demolished roof at Liverpool central, as if a model were to ever be made, someone could take info from the surviving roof at Manchester look forward to seeing more pics cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 fantastic work Ron, sorry if its been asked before, will you be doing the whole roof, a freind of mine is building Liverpool lime st in 4mm and has decided to have a few sections removable/open to allow people to see in, I think having the entire roof would be good even if its only practicle to use it when taking photos etc. Ive often wondered if the roof at Manchester central shared any design similarities with the now demolished roof at Liverpool central, as if a model were to ever be made, someone could take info from the surviving roof at Manchester look forward to seeing more pics cheers Mike The whole roof is being modelled, overall length including frontage canopy will be 2200mm long and 850mm wide. Still deliberating on whether to complete clad and glaze the roof and have webcams installed for viewing interior on computer screen or leave completely unclad/glazed. In either case will probably have 2 bays over loco release area removable just in case of a problem. Will arrange for auto-uncoupling of loco from lead coach under normal operations The roof of Lverpool Central was smaller in length and width, but did have a similar basic steel design above eaves level, but of a much lighter construction The following web link has a number photos of the roof of Liverpool Central http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/l/liverpool_central_hl/index.shtml 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 Good stuff Ron How long is the station itself? As the roof is 6ft + long is a section to be removable to get to derailments etc? Cheers Jim Sorry Jim, had so many comments I missed your question, have just answered similar question from Michael Delamar If you have any further questions please ask All the best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger440 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 The whole roof is being modelled, overall length including frontage canopy will be 2200mm long and 850mm wide. Still deliberating on whether to complete clad and glaze the roof and have webcams installed for viewing interior on computer screen or leave completely unclad/glazed. In either case will probably have 2 bays over loco release area removable just in case of a problem. Will arrange for auto-uncoupling of loco from lead coach under normal operations The roof of Lverpool Central was smaller in length and width, but did have a similar basic steel design above eaves level, but of a much lighter construction The following web link has a number photos of the roof of Liverpool Central http://www.disused-s..._hl/index.shtml 2.2m long :unsure::unsure: Thats nuts! Very very impressed. Id suggest glazing it, i think it would look better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 CASTLEFIELD VIADUCTS - MANCHESTER There are four viaducts at Castlefield, Manchester, built almost entirely in brick. Where they pass over railway lines and canal wharves, steel and wrought iron bridging structures employing various structural design arrangements have been used Castlefield Viaducts -1847-1849 Manchester South Junction & Altrincham Railway, the one on the Altrincham line is the most southerly of all the viaducts and the other on the line to Salford/Eccles passes under the two Midland viaducts. East of Castlefield Junction the lines extend to Oxford Road and London Road (Piccadilly). (Presently used by Metrolink) Cornbrook Viaduct -1877 Midland Railway, built adjacent to and the North of the 1849 Castlefield Viaduct, was used mainly for trains to the South and East. (Presently used by Metrolink) Castlefield Viaduct -1894 Midland Railway, built adjacent to and the North of the 1877 Cornbrook Viaduct, carried the lines to the West, Liverpool, Cornbrook Carriage sidings and Trafford Park locomotive shed. (Presently disused) The lines into Manchester Central Station, CLC Goods Warehouse and GNR Deansgate Goods Warehouse used the two viaducts built by the Midland Railway The 1877 viaduct has two separate bridge spans, whereas the 1894 viaduct is a single bridge comprising eight individual spans - The 1894 viaduct bridge structure is already work in progress, see Gallery link Google Maps link : http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Castlefield&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=22.297654,67.456055&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Castlefield,+Greater+Manchester,+United+Kingdom&ll=53.4746,-2.256306&spn=0.00273,0.010278&t=k&z=18 Modelling the 1877 viaduct bridge #1 This bridge spans the MSJ&R lines to Salford, and is built on the skew. The northern span runs east-west and has a length of 150ft (600mm). The southern span runs at an angle of 3.1° from east to west, and is 166ft (664mm) long. The resulting bridge deck is 84ft (332mm) wide at the east end, and 66ft (264mm) wide at the west end. The skew angle is -63° from North. The lines run on a curve between the bridge spans Plan of bridge without the two span braces Plan of bridge with under deck steel dimensions (4mm scale) North and South Spans - south elevations 3D view of South Span 3D views of Vertical Truss Structure with strengthening plates Vertical Truss Structure without strengthening plates - Modelled in plastic Plastic Modelling in 4mm scale General comment Butanone/MEK (Methyl Ether Ketone) is used for temporary assembly where necessary EMA Plastic Weld is used for all permanent/final assembly Templates and jigs were not used Vertical Truss Structures The structure is built using four pieces of Evergreen 291 - 60th angle section, each 59mm long, with a 10th x 40th x 7mm long strip sandwiched between them at each end. Eight diagonal strips of the same section 7.5mm long are fitted at 5mm intervals between two of the angle sections. This is repeated for the other side, so that the diagonal strips appear as X’s, when viewed from either side Using a 0.55mm drill bit, holes are made through each pair of diagonal strips forming an X, spinning the drill bit with finger and thumb. Pieces of 0.5mm plastic rod 2mm long are fitted through each pair of adjacent holes, to represent the fixing bolts Additional fixing plates/shims, 20th x 100th x 7.5mm long, are added at the end of each pair of angle sections When constructing structures with strengthening plates, two strips 20th x 4mm x 59mm are fixed instead of the four fixing plates/shims The north span requires 13 in total, six without strengthening plates, and seven with strengthening plates. The south span requires 15 in total, seven without strengthening plates, and eight with strengthening plates South span – Lower beam Lower Span Beams The lower beams are constructed from two vertical strips 20th x 7mm, fitted top and bottom with strips 20th x 60th. Strips 10th x 30th are fixed vertically within the angle formed by the top and bottom strips Spacer plates are made from 20th plastic card 7.5mm wide x 7mm high with strips 20th x 60th x 7.5mm fitted to the bottom edge The two channel beams are fitted with the spacer plates at 40mm intervals. On the north span the first spacer is 30mm from the west end, and the last spacer is 50mm from the east end. The dimensions for the south span are 32mm from either end. The plates are fixed flush with the bottom of the channels The ends of the each beam assembly are fitted with pieces of plastic card 20th x 8mm x 11.5mm Upper Span Beams The upper beams are constructed from two vertical strips 20th x 7mm, fitted at the bottom only with strips 20th x 60th. Strips 10th x 30th are fixed vertically within the angle formed by the bottom strips Spacer plates are made from 20th plastic card 7.5mm wide x 7mm high with strips 20th x 60th x 7.5mm fitted to the bottom edge On the north span the first spacer is 20mm from the west end, and the last spacer is 40mm from the east end. These dimensions are 20mm from west and east ends, on the south span A strip of plastic card 20th x 11.5mm wide is fixed across the top of the two channels with 1.5mm overhang along each side. Strips 10th x 30th are fixed vertically to each side of the assembly, within the angle formed by the top strip End pieces are not required Sloping End Beams Following the differences shown on the drawing elevations, these are built in a similar fashion as the top beams Next step is the assembly of both North and South Spans Work in progress ..... to be continued 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
s55evo Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Hi Ron, I must say the size of your project is breathtaking and the execution is superb. I am surprised no one has asked so far, but could you give us all some details of your methods of constructing brick structures, we can see the overall effect but the detail would be very useful. Thanks Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
s55evo Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I have made a small reply/comment to one of my gallery images about the brickwork construction methods http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?app=gallery&module=images§ion=viewimage&img=24727&st=#comment_5986 If you feel I need start another topic on the Card Construction Methods used on Manchester Central please advise Hi Ron, Thanks for the reply, I had missed that detail, I for one would like more detail, I have had some success with structure modeling but making a start is the hardest part and any new techniques may spur me and others to give it a try. Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 Continuing construction of the Bridge Spans- The vertical trusses have been completed and the South Span has been built Assembly of span with just the vertical trusses and the end joists in place Completed span. The central five trusses and the two end trusses are without vertical reinforcement plates Closeup of span showing the gusset plates and diagonal bracings. Cross bracing is only to the three central trusses In case you think these plastic structure are flimsy, study this next picture No discernible deflection i.e. less than 1mm, and YES the cans are full and unopened, and NO I didn’t empty them immediately after taking the picture. That is a loading of 1 litre / 1kg So the complete bridge with the two spans support the bridge deck should be able to support a minimum of 2 kg without any significant deflection The next post will be the completed bridge structure with the bridge deck in place, in about two weeks time 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MrSimon Posted January 29, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 29, 2011 Hi, Look forward to seeing 6 cans on the completed bridge! Amazing work Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Simply awesome! I spent many happy hours on that station as a lad. I would never have dreamed that someone would have the bottle to model it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted January 29, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 29, 2011 In case you think these plastic structure are flimsy I'd have thought that these spans were actually stronger (in a scale sense) than the prototype ones - the plastic must have a higher tensile strength for it's size than the metal work does. Stunning modelling though... Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 …YES the cans are full and unopened, and NO I didn’t empty them immediately after taking the picture… Commendable restraint as well as great modelling! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I've seen some dodgy looking bridges on model railways in my time. This isn't one of them. Beautiful structural modelling, and pleasing to see it function as well as look the part. I'd have thought that these spans were actually stronger (in a scale sense) than the prototype ones - the plastic must have a higher tensile strength for it's size than the metal work does. No - try stretching a plastruct rod compared to a metal rod until it fails for example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I would never have dreamed that someone would have the bottle to model it. Clearly he didn't, that's why he used the tins! I've not seen this before, and I am as impressed as everyone else with it. Two questions: 1) what CAD package did you use, and was it wire frame, surface or solid modelling? 2) are the viaducts the ones that are always being shown on telly programmes set in Manchester? Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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