Bachmann retooled Modified Hall 2012 - What can we expect?

[6959]

Top marks to Bachmann for listing a Modified Hall with Hawksworth tender in LNWR-style lined black because it was near the top of my wants list. I shall buy 'Foremarke Hall' when it comes out and probably another one to rob the tender to go behind a standard 'Hall'. Now is a good time to buy a spare 'Ragley Hall' to rob the tender to hang behind 'Swithland Hall' if the colours are a good match.

 

In anticipation of the new releases I dug out my Halls, Modified Halls and Hornby Granges to compare so I can decide what to do with the Bachmann Modified Halls from about twenty years ago. I bought all the various names and several the same if the tenders were useful for mixing and matching to get what I want which is basically the years 1946 to 1956.

 

At a quick look there is no contest between the Bachmann 4000 gallon Collett tenders on old Replica -inspired Modified Hall and the recent standard Halls which are the same except for the tender draw bar. The main differences between the old Modified Hall loco body and the recent production Bachmann Halls are: the boiler bands are less pronounced yet not as fine as the Hornby Grange, the lip on the cab roof is finer, the firebox seems to be a better shape and the whistle shield is smaller.

 

The main improvement in the Hall models which will probably be carried over to the retooled Modified Halls is the loco chassis which runs better than the old split block version. I have taken both types apart to see if the new chassis will go under an old body and it could be done but the new loco body is so much better there would need to be a good reason. Essentially, if an older Modified Hall is a good runner and some insulated axles are kept in stock for repairs, the old version is good enough.

 

As to price, I bought most of my Modified Halls for 47.50 each when they came out: the new one is listed as 108.95 Pounds RRP so assuming they sell for 85 percent of RRP will cost about 92.60gbp when they come out, reducing if and when they are slow seller at the end of the run. Currently, 'Ragley Hall' can be bought for about 82 quid if you are a Liverpool supporter but less if you scan the web sites.

 

The bottom line is that the upgraded version of the Modified Hall is preferred if someone is starting out but the old ones are good enough if they still run and did not cost much.

 

Some pictures attached show Bachmann 'Witherslack Hall' in the foreground, Bachmann 'Saint Edmund Hall in the middle and a Hornby 'Derwent Grange' in the background. The Halls have a 4000 gallon Collett tender whereas the Grange has the smaller 3500 gallon Collett version.

[Horsetan]

If the body is really going to be "retooled", then hopefully they will correct the front frame extensions. They appear to be a bit short, as your sample demonstrates.

[45568]

I always thought the main bone of contention was the firebox taper on the Bachmann Hall. Looking at your pix, the Grange and original modified Hall look similar if you squint in the dark, the Bachmann original Hall has a very pronouced taper to be trapezoidal. They can't all be right?

Cheers, Peter C.

[vulcanbomber]

Excuse my ignorance but where does the Bachmann Sketty Hall fit into this?

[Barry Ten]

Have they said that the Modified Hall will be anything other than the old model with a new chassis? I've had a read of the threads can't see any indication that the body itself is going to be retooled. I'd never noticed the (presence or absence of the) frame extensions before, by the way - shows how observant I am.

[brushman47544]

Interesting - I no longer have one of the Modified Halls and so was not aware of the specific errors. But it wasn't bad for its time either.

 

One thought. I would expect Bachmann to use its current Collett 4000 gallon and Hawksworth tenders with the upgraded Modified Hall rather than continue to use the older Collett one. In which case there would be no need to buy a Radley, or Sketty, Hall (for vulcanbomber the most recent original Halls from Bachmann) just to swop tenders.

Edited March 16, 2012 by brushman47544

[Horsetan]

....I'd never noticed the (presence or absence of the) frame extensions before, by the way....

 

You have now.

[gwrrob]

As far as I'm aware they are only doing the chassis and they're only be in BR liveries too and won't do a GWR post war liveried one.

[The Stationmaster]

As far as I'm aware they are only doing the chassis and they're only be in BR liveries too and won't do a GWR post war liveried one.

The website only lists the two in BR livery - and rather nicely one is green with Collett tender carrying the late crest, looks as it the main job is some correctly trimmed Plasticard to extend the plate frame a tad (it ran through to the bufferbeam thus resolving the weakness inherent in the earlier design).

[6959]

When a new GWR loco comes out I try to buy one as cheaply as possible to take it apart with a view to making other similar models not available in ready to run (RTR). To this end I bought a second Bachmann 'Kinlet Hall' to see if it could be made into another Hall version, a better Modified Hall or a Saint. Now that Bachmann will introduce an improved Modified Hall that saves one task.

 

As shown in the attached pictures, the loco body breaks down into three main parts. Here it should be said that to slide the cab upwards from the firebox it is first necessary to pull the handrails out of the holes in the cab spectacle plate, otherwise the wires will be bent out of shape. Also, when removing the cab, care is required to avoid braking the 'hoop' that forms the cab vertical grab rails. It is glued into holes in the metal (zinc alloy?) that is used for the running plate unit.

 

Not so obviously seen is that the smokebox saddle, motion bracket above the running plate and reversing lever are separate parts that can easily be substituted to make a different loco. The splasher fronts are separate pieces that can be substituted by others pre-painted in a different livery. Alternative tall and short safety valves can be used as well as different chimneys and with or without whistle shields. Other options are the straight pre-war cab hand rails or post-war L-shaped ones.

 

It is assumed that this Hall contruction with suitable modification will be used by Bachmann for the forthcoming updated Modified Hall models.

 

Here, credit should be given to Godfrey Hayes who suggested this method of construction to Kader (makers of Bachmann products) when he set up Replica Railways in the mid 1980s. In his business plan he envisaged a range of GWR 4-6-0 and 2-8-0 loco's using as many common parts as possible.

 

All this was of course only possible due to the standardisation imposed on the GWR by George Jackson Churchward nearly one hundred years ago.

[Adrock]

From what I can gather, this will only be a chassis upgrade, which is great news. I just wonder though why the Manor or Mogul weren't selected ahead of the Modified Hall, given that they already offer a fairly similar Hall in range and to modern standards. With the other two classes being blue route restricted I reckon they would have had an even wider appeal - a little more cross over to the GW light routes. Although here's hoping ithat n time they will upgrade both of them as well.

[Butler Henderson]

Suspect they went for the Modified Hall as they have the chassis bar a few tweaks.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I always thought the main bone of contention was the firebox taper on the Bachmann Hall. Looking at your pix, the Grange and original modified Hall look similar if you squint in the dark, the Bachmann original Hall has a very pronouced taper to be trapezoidal. They can't all be right?

We had this very same discussion on an ur-RMWeb. The maximum width of the firebox casing should be a foot greater at the maximum point than at the cab spectacle plate according to an old GA dwg I have (no provenance, came in a mixed bundle of railwayana from a relative, source unknown) 6'6" down to 5'6", which is a very substantial taper. Looking down on the odd Swindon boiler over the years, I have to say that the more pronounced taper in model form seems nearer the mark to me.

 

Clearly someone with a reliable drawing, and another with the model and some calipers could supply the necessary information to resolve this. However, we never got there last time around, to the best of my recollection

[The Stationmaster]

Something a little odd going on with these two locos. The Bachmann website lists -

31-780 6988 'Swithland Hall'. BR green, late crest with Collett tender, and

31-781 7903 'Foremarke Hall' BR black, early emblem, Hawksworth tender.

 

But having just acquired a Bachmann catalogue I find

31-780 6988 green, late crest, Hawksworth tender,

31-781 7903 black, early emblem, Collett tender.

 

And the prototype pic in the catalogue shows 6988 in late crest green livery with a Hawksworth tender. I wonder what we'll actually get?

[Coach bogie]

One issue with the original Replica and early Bachmann was the incorrect bogie fitted to the modified Hall models. It requires a plate frame type not produced at the time. The original standard Churchward style bogie was fitted as used on original Halls. Manors etc. I fitted a cast bogie, ex Nucast to mine to correct. The US Harry Potter Hogwarts Castle uses the original Modified Hall tooling again issed with the original Hall type bogie. On the Bachmann website they claim 'authentic plate frame bogie, so it appears Bachmann have picked up on this.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Horsetan]

I was once told that the firebox of the "Manor" was made wider than scale in order to accommodate the original Mainline "pancake" motor. Not sure how true that is - I have a spare "Manor" body, and the firebox on that moulding didn't strike me as particularly wide.

[6959]

Something a little odd going on with these two locos. The Bachmann website lists -

31-780 6988 'Swithland Hall'. BR green, late crest with Collett tender, and

31-781 7903 'Foremarke Hall' BR black, early emblem, Hawksworth tender.

 

But having just acquired a Bachmann catalogue I find

31-780 6988 green, late crest, Hawksworth tender,

31-781 7903 black, early emblem, Collett tender.

 

And the prototype pic in the catalogue shows 6988 in late crest green livery with a Hawksworth tender. I wonder what we'll actually get?

 

I was looking forward to buying Foremarke Hall with Hawksworth tender in black, and maybe another one to rob for a tender to go behind a standard Hall but iIf they come out as listed in the catalogue, I shall not buy either loco because they duplicate previous releases.

[Rugd1022]

Something a little odd going on with these two locos. The Bachmann website lists -

31-780 6988 'Swithland Hall'. BR green, late crest with Collett tender, and

31-781 7903 'Foremarke Hall' BR black, early emblem, Hawksworth tender.

 

But having just acquired a Bachmann catalogue I find

31-780 6988 green, late crest, Hawksworth tender,

31-781 7903 black, early emblem, Collett tender.

 

And the prototype pic in the catalogue shows 6988 in late crest green livery with a Hawksworth tender. I wonder what we'll actually get?

 

Afternoon Mike,

 

Can't answer on Bachmann's behalf obviously, but 7903 ran with both types of tender in BR days, there are several photos of it showing both in the various Ian Allan / Peter Gray colour albums and one or two elsewhere .

[coachmann]

Each time a new model comes out, it evokes memories of a day out train watching. My weekly runabout ticket had taken me to Chester in 1963 and I walked back along the race course to a bridge over Curzon Park Cutting. Bags of trains both Western and London Midland and of course plenty of Halls. I stayed there much of the day before trudging back to General for the train home.

 

Next day I went back to Chester for a ride behind a Castle to Wrexham, but it wasnt to be. The LMR had taken over and all I got was a Jubilee. Still, there was plenty of Western steam to be seen just outside Wrexham. I went over to the GC station for a ride back to Northgate on a DMU, but even then I saw a small postwar Pannier and we passed a 56XX 0-6-2T at Pennyfford. A rebuilt Hall will be hard to resist. I'll have to pretend it was re-arranging the platforms at Huddersfield!

Edited April 2, 2012 by coachmann

[gwrrob]

Something a little odd going on with these two locos. The Bachmann website lists -

31-780 6988 'Swithland Hall'. BR green, late crest with Collett tender, and

31-781 7903 'Foremarke Hall' BR black, early emblem, Hawksworth tender.

 

But having just acquired a Bachmann catalogue I find

31-780 6988 green, late crest, Hawksworth tender,

31-781 7903 black, early emblem, Collett tender.

 

And the prototype pic in the catalogue shows 6988 in late crest green livery with a Hawksworth tender. I wonder what we'll actually get?

 

Is there a Hall 'Ambigious Hall' Mike ?

[DerekEm8]

Each time a new model comes out, it evokes memories of a day out train watching. My weekly runabout ticket had taken me to Chester in 1963 and I walked back along the race course to a bridge over Curzon Park Cutting. Bags of trains both Western and London Midland and of course plenty of Halls. I stayed there much of the day before trudging back to General for the train home.

 

Next day I went back to Chester for a ride behind a Castle to Wrexham, but it wasnt to be. The LMR had taken over and all I got was a Jubilee. Still, there was plenty of Western steam to be seen just outside Wrexham. I went over to the GC station for a ride back to Northgate on a DMU, but even then I saw a small postwar Pannier and we passed a 56XX 0-6-2T at Pennyfford. A rebuilt Hall will be hard to resist. I'll have to pretend it was re-arranging the platforms at Huddersfield!

 

Larry,

I believe the offending Hall was returned via Stockport and Crewe so Greenfield would have seen it pass through.

[Pennine MC]

Larry,

I believe the offending Hall was returned via Stockport and Crewe so Greenfield would have seen it pass through.

 

Wasnt the offending Hall a Grange though, Derek?

[DerekEm8]

Wasnt the offending Hall a Grange though, Derek?

 

Ian

It was green with bits of brass on it was'nt it ? :locomotive:

 

Perhaps should have said loco ?

[The Stationmaster]

Afternoon Mike,

 

Can't answer on Bachmann's behalf obviously, but 7903 ran with both types of tender in BR days, there are several photos of it showing both in the various Ian Allan / Peter Gray colour albums and one or two elsewhere .

It doesn't worry me either way Nidge - whichever is in green with a late crest tender suits me (I'm not so keen on Halls in black - but as the one I've got only cost 40 quid I'm not arguing too much. I shall no doubt have to rename & number one to suit my memories although as one I knew well stayed on the same working for the best part of a year (excluding time stopped for washouts etc) it would hardly be realistic to use it elsewhere on the Western - but that doesn't worry me one bit.

 

And as for Rob's question there was certainly an 'Anonymous Hall' (well several actually)

[coachmann]

Wasnt the offending Hall a Grange though, Derek?

6858 Woolston Grange, working the Poole to Bradford/Leeds train, would normally would have come off at Leicester or Nottingham, but due to an oversight at control it managed to reach Huddersfield. However, en route, it hit the platform edge at Berry Brow station between Penistone and Huddersfield. The loco was stabled well inside Huddersfield shed for two weeks before being towed as an out of gauge load to Crewe.

 

Could have been a Hall though....You know what modellers licence is like...

Edited April 2, 2012 by coachmann