Wright writes.....

[grahame]

. . .  the website didn't specifically mention loco construction, wagon, building, etc. as specific demos. I am inclined to think that would be more likely to attract someone who might be interested in starting off building a kit. Until you see someone building a plastic wagon kit, for example, you may not know what basic techniques are involved and what to look for.

 

Maggie Gravett - scenic modelling with children able to have a go

Dave Walker & Liz Marsden - the larger scales,

Cat Gibbs - figure painting

Jerry & Kim Clifford - 2mm scale modelling,

Tim Easter - weathering

Jonathan Hall - laser cutting,

Julia Adams - 2mm scale modelling

Michael Tucker - modelling buildings,

Gordon Gravett - modelling grass

Roger Sawyer - hands on soldering,

Roy Hickman - scenic modelling

Ian Morgan - 3D CAD Wagons,

Tony Wright - locomotive clinic

Mick Woolridge - white metal soldering,

Jacqui Perrat - modelling trees

 

Maybe the website didn't specifically mention loco or wagon building or assembling kits, but from above list of demonstrations (copied from the website) it does mention general 'modelling' along with a large range of specific modelling. A rather impressive range of modelling IMO. I wouldn't have thought it wasn't beyond the wit of those attending to visit such demonstrations and ask about what they particularly wanted to know.

 

G

[Tony Wright]

rowanj, those wagons and loco do look very good and I'm certainly not seeing anything wrong with them in your photos and think that your efforts are very good indeed.

 

However, three words in your post jumped out at me, "RECOGNISE THEIR LIMITATIONS" - well they are in capitals. Those words remind me about something a very well know and respected coach in the figure skating word said to me during my days as a competitive free skater (the solo section where you jump and spin).

 

"Most skaters will reach their mental limitations long before they reach their physical ones."

 

Now I wasn't a gifted skater and had started because of a deformity within my left ear that seriously affected my balance. As a result, absolutely nothing was easy to me and, when I was fifteen, I'd had to have surgery to my left ear to remove an infection that was threatening to kill me. I'm now more than 50% def in my left side as a result and, according to the specialists that treated me, now had insufficient balance to continue skating. Throughout my career, nobody expected anything from me, I wasn't good enough to be noticed. However, over time and with a lot of practice, falls, injuries, etc I improved sufficiently that someone suggested that I attend the Russian squad's summer camp in Spain (where I met the coach above). That was a wonderful month where I got invited more than once to train on the same ice as Olympic and World champions - an amazing experience that ranks as one of my favorite memories. I was nowhere near the same league as these skaters (but they 100% accepted me on with them) and one day, I asked the coach why he kept inviting me onto this ice and training me for free (his fee was $100 per hour - this was 1998!). He replied that it was because while I lacked the talent, I had the heart and he would rather teach a one skater with the heart (but not the talent) than one hundred skaters with the talent (but no heart) - although he also admitted he'd rather teach one skater with both of these qualities!

 

I never qualified for the National Championships (my personal goal, I didn't want to win it, just qualify and finish in last place) but I did complete all of the competitive tests and learnt how to do four of the six types of triple jump (three turns in the air) - nobody expected me to do that! In 2013 (after several years away from the sport), I went and qualified for the National Adult Championships and got to finally compete against some (former) elite level skaters. I finished second which was a major step above my goal of simply qualifying and it didn't matter that I couldn't do as many of the technical tricks anymore, it was finally fulfilling a long held ambition in some form.

 

Why have I bothered to post this. Well, it seems to me that the quote above from the Russian coach can be applied to modelling as well. Yes, I fully accept that there are people who's eyesight or motor skills have deteriorated to a point where model making is difficult or impossible. However, I would suggest that there are also a great many modellers who have defeated themselves before they begin. Which brings me to another quote that I remember from that same coach:

 

"There is no shame in trying but failing. However, there is nothing but shame in failing to try."

 

If I hadn't tried to build (and initially fail - many, many times) to build and paint models then I wouldn't have learnt anything and I certainly wouldn't have surpassed my wildest expectations of what I am capable of. I found that, just like skating, it is a case of learning the techniques and practicing to try and perfect them.

 

I recognise my limitations,and sometimes they get the better of me, but I also enjoy trampling all over them from time to time!

 

I haven't touch the ice in over a year, maybe I should go and dig out my skates again.

An inspirational post, Steve,

 

Many thanks. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

PS The only time I ever tried skating was on the Shropshire Union Canal in Chester in January 1963. I ended up on my @rse immediately! Got up, and immediately down again. My maxim (the opposite of yours) with regard to risking one's health on ice was if at first you don't succeed, don't try again!  

[Northmoor]

I work to my father’s maxim: “He who says it can’t be done is liable to be passed by someone doing it!”

Or to quote Henry Ford:

"If you believe you can or believe you can't, you are usually right".

[Tony Wright]

Another element is what I would call corporate memory. Geoff Brewin knew quite a bit about Comet's range and would guide people as to which bits they should buy. I had a spell behind his counter whilst he had a comfort break at York, and by the time he had come back, he had a queue of three people who asked me questions which I didn't even understand, let alone answer. At least I did manage to sell a SIG01, signalling detail kit because co-incidentally Geoff had asked me what all the bits were so he could advise anybody who might want one. Sadly, all that knowledge has now gone, probably never to be replaced, just as Bob Treacher isn't around to be asked.

Phil,

 

Bob is very much alive and well, and living now in Lincolnshire in happy retirement. After EAMES, he went on to run Alton Model Centre. 

[96701]

Phil,

 

Bob is very much alive and well, and living now in Lincolnshire in happy retirement. After EAMES, he went on to run Alton Model Centre. 

Nice to hear of that, but I think my point still stands that people with knowledge and experience aren't as accessible as they used to be, nor are they as plentiful as we head down the r-t-r route.

[St Enodoc]

 

Regarding the R-T-R and kit built locos, another point to consider is in comparing the finished articles.

 

In the case of a pacific costing roughly £170 in R-T-R against the cost of the kit, wheels, motor/gears etc. of at least £300 how many people will be able to build and paint/line to a good standard which, even if not as good as the R-T-R model, would still be passable?

 

A few years ago I heard a customer in our local model shop raising this very point as he examined a Hornby A4 and A3 in the showcases and when seriously thinking about purchasing a kit (not from the shop as they no longer stock them!) decided that he could not finish an A3 kit to an acceptable level, especially when considering the money, and therefore purchased the Hornby loco.

 

As Tony once pointed out, us kit builders are gradually drifting out to the far edges where the air is thinner (sometimes really bluer as well when things get a bit difficult!)

 

There's the time factor too. I have 13 Bachmann Halls on my layout. Had I chosen to build 13 DJH kits, for example, I would never have had time to build the layout for them to run on. This is the basis of my philosophy that I buy what I can so that I have time to build what I can't buy.

[MJI]

Some very good points, Eric,

 

Thanks for posting. 

 

I suppose it was around the turn of the century, with the release of the likes of Hornby's rebuilt Merchant Navy, when the difference between a good kit-built loco and an out-of-the-box loco virtually disappeared. And, as the century has gone on the difference has again increased. But, this time it's in the opposite direction, and very few modellers can match the excellence, both in terms of appearance and performance, of today's RTR items by building a kit. Is it any wonder why the kit-builders are becoming more and more marginalised? Add on to that the difference in price (in OO) and it's really a 'no brainer'. 

 

That said, the likes of us enjoy building kits - and always have done (and always will?). That they might not be as good as an RTR equivalent (and I say this both for myself and with respect for you) is rather irrelevant - it's the personal making of things which is still very important. And, in many cases still, the only way to get a particular class of loco is to make it.  

 

I don't have many RTR locos, and most of what I had have now been sold-on. I do have a few left, and some are illustrated below.

 

60125 and 60538.jpg

 

Two modified Bachmann Peppercorn Pacifics, 60538 and 60125 respectively. Both have been renumbered/renamed, both have had their rear ends lifted up to match their tenders, both have had replacement bogie wheels fitted and lots of wiggly pipes have been added. 60125 has replacement DJH A1 etched brass deflectors. Tom Foster weathered VELOCITY and Ian Rathbone weathered SCOTTISH UNION. Both aren't used very much. Why? Neither will pull as well as my DJH equivalents and neither are 'mine' in the same way as I view my own constructions. That, of curse is purely personal, but I'll bet both of these are 'superior' to many DJH kit-built equivalents I've seen. Which, to me, means why waste time and money on building a kit when the end results won't be as good as something arrived at by modifying an RTR item? Other than the personal satisfaction of having made it oneself and the fact that the kit-built one will pull more, assuming the chassis is a good runner. 

 

61028.jpg

 

This is an old Replica/Bachmann B1 which I've taken a fair bit further than just detailing. The original split chassis was just awful, and I've built a Comet replacement, using Markits wheels and a DJH gearbox. However, Bachmann's latest B1 has a very good chassis now, and Hornby produces a splendid B1. There must be hundreds of dud split chassis B1s still out there, though, just waiting for a Comet replacement. The bodies of both the loco and tender are very good. 

 

61975.jpg

 

A Bachmann K3, altered beautifully by Tony Geary, to which I've added several wiggly pipes. Despite this looking very natural, the drivers are still underscale and its performance leaves something to be desired with regard to really smooth running. 

 

63786.jpg

 

A modified Hornby O1, engaged in some pick-up duties. This is far, far better than my scratch-built O1 from over 40 years ago. However, I wish its footplate were not quite so wobbly. 

 

63937 and 70054.jpg

 

A Hornby modified Britannia and a Heljan modified O2. Both 'modifications' probably go a bit further than many might contemplate with regard to 'improving' their RTR locos. 70054 started life as a tender-drive 70046, and I've built replacement Comet chassis for both loco and tender. I turned the Heljan O2/3 into an O2/2 by fitting a new cab, making a new front buffer beam, adding new buffers, changing the drive to RH and making a GNR tender for it. 

 

What do all these show? That modified RTR locos are more than acceptable as 'layout' locos, even if they're not used very often. If nothing else, it illustrates how good current RTR locos are and how many more people can enjoy the benefits of far more accurate locos than in the past. Which, in many ways is good for the hobby.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

And you forgot to mention that the O2 had a lot of input from you so is a sort of Tony RTR

 

 

[Red Devil]

The RTR v Kitbuilt debate always brings a bit or a wry smile to my face, as someone whose modelling interests also include trams the thought of an RTR UK traditional tram would possibly be a Godsend! Pretty unlikely in either short or long term so to a degree we've just got on with doing stuff for ourselves by ourselves.

 

I know some still maintain that 3d printing isn't quite 'there' yet but for what I want, it'll do. It also allows others to build some stuff that perhaps wouldn't have been as easy or possible previously, for example I wanted a Leeds Middleton Bogie in 4mm, CAD was done, several built etc and when a friend in the US wanted one.......

 

7mm Leeds Middleton Bogie in post war light blue by Tony Tieuli, body from SLA print, rest 'traditional modelling' 

 

 

My current project includes Sheffield trams and buses, most of those are kits and 3d stuff, however the section of railway (MSW 1500v dc) will definitely feature some RTR, but there'll be things that I will build  there too. 

 

I'm quite pragmatic as to how I get stuff, RTR, yeah that's ok, kit, great something to build, no kit.....right I'll get my finger out and sort something! 

Edited January 15, 2019 by Red Devil

[St Enodoc]

rowanj, those wagons and loco do look very good and I'm certainly not seeing anything wrong with them in your photos and think that your efforts are very good indeed.

 

However, three words in your post jumped out at me, "RECOGNISE THEIR LIMITATIONS" - well they are in capitals. Those words remind me about something a very well know and respected coach in the figure skating word said to me during my days as a competitive free skater (the solo section where you jump and spin).

 

"Most skaters will reach their mental limitations long before they reach their physical ones."

 

Now I wasn't a gifted skater and had started because of a deformity within my left ear that seriously affected my balance. As a result, absolutely nothing was easy to me and, when I was fifteen, I'd had to have surgery to my left ear to remove an infection that was threatening to kill me. I'm now more than 50% def in my left side as a result and, according to the specialists that treated me, now had insufficient balance to continue skating. Throughout my career, nobody expected anything from me, I wasn't good enough to be noticed. However, over time and with a lot of practice, falls, injuries, etc I improved sufficiently that someone suggested that I attend the Russian squad's summer camp in Spain (where I met the coach above). That was a wonderful month where I got invited more than once to train on the same ice as Olympic and World champions - an amazing experience that ranks as one of my favorite memories. I was nowhere near the same league as these skaters (but they 100% accepted me on with them) and one day, I asked the coach why he kept inviting me onto this ice and training me for free (his fee was $100 per hour - this was 1998!). He replied that it was because while I lacked the talent, I had the heart and he would rather teach a one skater with the heart (but not the talent) than one hundred skaters with the talent (but no heart) - although he also admitted he'd rather teach one skater with both of these qualities!

 

I never qualified for the National Championships (my personal goal, I didn't want to win it, just qualify and finish in last place) but I did complete all of the competitive tests and learnt how to do four of the six types of triple jump (three turns in the air) - nobody expected me to do that! In 2013 (after several years away from the sport), I went and qualified for the National Adult Championships and got to finally compete against some (former) elite level skaters. I finished second which was a major step above my goal of simply qualifying and it didn't matter that I couldn't do as many of the technical tricks anymore, it was finally fulfilling a long held ambition in some form.

 

Why have I bothered to post this. Well, it seems to me that the quote above from the Russian coach can be applied to modelling as well. Yes, I fully accept that there are people who's eyesight or motor skills have deteriorated to a point where model making is difficult or impossible. However, I would suggest that there are also a great many modellers who have defeated themselves before they begin. Which brings me to another quote that I remember from that same coach:

 

"There is no shame in trying but failing. However, there is nothing but shame in failing to try."

 

If I hadn't tried to build (and initially fail - many, many times) to build and paint models then I wouldn't have learnt anything and I certainly wouldn't have surpassed my wildest expectations of what I am capable of. I found that, just like skating, it is a case of learning the techniques and practicing to try and perfect them.

 

I recognise my limitations,and sometimes they get the better of me, but I also enjoy trampling all over them from time to time!

 

I haven't touch the ice in over a year, maybe I should go and dig out my skates again.

I've never tried ice skating and probably never will now, but getting on for 50 years ago we used to go roller skating at Ally Pally. I confess, though, that we were more interested in meeting girls than honing our skating techniques.

[Jon4470]

I’ve found this recent kit building debate very interesting (nice and civilised as well).

 

I do agree that getting into kit building can be quite daunting - how do you make the kits, what tools, where to get the components etc. Let alone the considerations of cost and the ability to paint/finish the model.

 

However I do also think there are positive changes that have taken place over the last few years. Advice/guidance can be found via tutorials on YouTube. Similarly this forum can be used for the same purpose. Web sites can be setup and this enables kit suppliers to promote their products. None of these are perfect- but they are accessible from anywhere with an internet connection. Thus it is possible to research and find out what is available, what tools are required etc

 

Ultimately though, I think that the desire to make a kit is the key component.......

[Jol Wilkinson]

Maggie Gravett - scenic modelling with children able to have a go

Dave Walker & Liz Marsden - the larger scales,

Cat Gibbs - figure painting

Jerry & Kim Clifford - 2mm scale modelling,

Tim Easter - weathering

Jonathan Hall - laser cutting,

Julia Adams - 2mm scale modelling

Michael Tucker - modelling buildings,

Gordon Gravett - modelling grass

Roger Sawyer - hands on soldering,

Roy Hickman - scenic modelling

Ian Morgan - 3D CAD Wagons,

Tony Wright - locomotive clinic

Mick Woolridge - white metal soldering,

Jacqui Perrat - modelling trees

 

Maybe the website didn't specifically mention loco or wagon building or assembling kits, but from above list of demonstrations (copied from the website) it does mention general 'modelling' along with a large range of specific modelling. A rather impressive range of modelling IMO. I wouldn't have thought it wasn't beyond the wit of those attending to visit such demonstrations and ask about what they particularly wanted to know.

 

G

True Grahame and my view may a bit skewed by having to explain to several people on Saturday that the display models on the LRM stand were made from kits, as the concept of a model made from brass and nickel silver parts seemed to be outside their field of knowledge. This despite several naked etches also being on display with  a completed model alongside.

 

More than any other exhibition I have attended (with possibly one exception), the CMRA show illustrates a wider range of modellers experience and awareness of different scales, gauges and modelling approaches. P4/EM, what's that? 2mm?. I think that, even if they wanted to build something from a kit, they wouldn't know what to ask until they have some experience of trying to make something. It is getting past that initial hurdle that is the difficulty. So while they can see from the Show Guide somebody called Gravett is showing how to create model grass, is anyone showing how to assemble a Parkside wagon kit (other makes are available)?

 

Those that contribute to this thread tend to make or adapt models, getting satisfaction and enjoyment from it. Naturally, we think that is something others could do. But how do you enthuse them to get started? A ground up (as with model grass) demo is what I think would be the most effective, so someone with several plastic kit in various stages of build might show how easy it is to get started.

 

How you get people to do the research to understand what kits exist to compliment or improve their RTR is another issue. For many of us, understanding what the real thing was like and how it worked is an interesting part of our hobby. Oddly the booksellers always seem to do well purveying printed information at exhibitions. Likewise the wish list and frothing topics on RMweb show that lots of people "know" about the prototype in great depth - even if they wouldn't consider themselves rivet counters -, but don't want to put any effort into modelling it unless someone else does it for them. That seems to be where, for many, modelling is headed if not already well established. 

[Clearwater]

I never met Geoff Brewin but via RMweb, I worked out that we grew up in the same town, Stourbridge, albeit I'm somewhat younger! Whilst I appreciate that you can no longer ask him for advice, he's left one hell of a legacy through his kits, designs and his build guides. The fact that his website is still running and still useful is testament to that legacy. Obvious thanks to Andrew at Wizard for helping secure the future of the range.

 

David

[Buhar]

I think Jol has an important point there, many vistors and modellers are a long way from traditional kit building, let alone bashing or scratch-building.  They didn't have the Airfix kit grounding and the idea of soldering or using liquid solvent is not in their experience, which is why you get seemingly daft questions and comments in respect of completed kits on stands or layouts.  While demos are a start we could do to get visitors actually getting their hands on the equipment and parts, although with solder and knives there may be liability issues for the organisers.

 

Railway modelling is certainly a broad church and while this thread concentrates for the most part on the stuff running on the rails (which I'd like to think is still the nave) I think there is a side chapel stuffed with folk who's interest lies outside the boundary fence.   Model Rail for the last few years seems to be concentrating on these aspects of the hobby*.   For these people it's logical that if you can have three or four outstanding RTR locos and some vaguely suitable stock then spending time and creative juices creating a scene around them makes more sense that messing up the guarantee on £150 worth of model.  The scenic and building aspect of many layouts in the press is streets ahead of that presented even 15 years ago, they are railway modellers, as they are modelling a railway they just have a different take on it.

 

*I must confess to being fed up with yet another article on trees, static grass or water and will probably cancel my sub when it's due.

 

Alan

[65179]

Many thanks,

 

I've written about some simple detailing/renumbering/renaming techniques for Dennis, which went into Bachmann Times. He, and others, puzzled as to why some folk didn't seem to be able to do any 'modelling'...

 

60538 01.jpg

 

B Times 18.jpg

 

B Times 23.jpg

 

I don't believe any of the three 'conversions' of Bachmann steam-outline locos shown above should be beyond anyone who professes to be a 'railway modeller'. I described these in the hope they'd be useful to folk contemplating such 'detailing' for themselves. Yet, if recent electronic correspondence is to be believed (I must be careful because I've not seen it), it would seem to be thought by some (many?) that I'm 'hostile' to RTR and elitist in the extreme. Hostile and elitist to be, right now, actively helping three RTR manufacturers (in a tiny way, I admit) with the development of new models? Poacher turned gamekeeper?

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

Tony,

 

The conversions may be simple, but even for those who feel they have the skills the detail differences can be overwhelming. I started off in N and was more than happy with my inside framed Grafar 08 lurching about at unrealistic speeds. Now with so much better RTR the cost and standard is a barrier to hacking at something even if you've access to the knowledge of what to change. Make your suggested changes to Sturdee and some annoying person will come along and tell you it's got the wrong tender...

 

Sticking a kit built Stanier 3500 gallon tender behind it will be a step too far for many. Whilst I miss the sheer fun I used to get with my 08 - a sentiment already expressed earlier by others- I now get a different satisfaction from doing what I can to recreate the look of something at a particular point in time.

 

 

Simon (having spent way too long looking at Jubilee photos!)

[Jamiel]

I would have thought that the comments about model shops who used to stock a lot of model making parts disappearing is to some extent simply reflecting the whole of the retail industry where high street shops are being undermined by on-line sellers, or put another way the market place is evolving.

Having only returned to the hobby about a decade ago I only really saw one shop that catered for kit builders to any great extent and that has now closed due to the brothers (I think) who ran it retiring.

I also understand the quality of RTR models is undermining the need to build some models.

 

I am not as pessimistic as some here though, for those wishing to build a model loco the choices on-line offer a great deal of variety. I am currently weighing up Alan Gibson and London Road models for my second full brass loco kit build. I am also completing a DMU set built from various sources, mostly a Craftsman conversion kit which is now a full build with only a Replica Railways drive chassis not made from kit parts.

 

It is sad to see that some kit providers have found the internet a difficult place to enter, and that some kits may have disappeared. I also understand that a good website does not necessarily mean a good quality set of etches, seeing the model or its parts in the flesh is still the best thing.

 

All in all, in the same way I have gravitated towards this forum and away from monthly magazines I also think that for a relatively niche market that the internet offers an exposure for the kit makers that I hope will keep this part of the hobby alive.

 

I would also add that I have seen this paralleled in music. I can buy releases, or find out about concerts by bands that I would simply not have heard of were it not for the internet. I like some bands that play concerts at major venues, but I also like some obscure music that attracts no more than a couple of hundred people to a show. Through the internet, music forums and the ability to buy some releases that would not be viable for physical release these bands are able to exist and promote themselves to a hard to find audience and keep alive kinds of music vastly different from the main stream.

Jamie

Edited January 16, 2019 by Jamiel

[Clive Mortimore]

I've never tried ice skating and probably never will now, but getting on for 50 years ago we used to go roller skating at Ally Pally. I confess, though, that we were more interested in meeting girls than honing our skating techniques.

Our school use to have trips to Solihull ice rink. My mates all could skate and they use to try and show off in front girls form other schools. I couldn't and all these girls with Brummy accents, which I found hard to understand, wanted to try and teach me how to skate. This somehow happened every time we went there. I still can't skate but now understand what ladies from the West Midlands are saying. 

 

Back to you and your room full of Halls, you say you wouldn't have the required amount had you not purchased them RTR. Now I had a big ER  North East London based diesel depot so class 15s were a necessity, I couldn't wait for an RTR manufacturer to make them (in fact I was told they never would be made). I have 10, eight I made with Slaters plastic card, 1 was made by my friend Robin Idle, not sure if he used Slaters or some other make of plastic card, and the tenth (a disappointment as it is WRONG) by Heljan.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[Lecorbusier]

 

........ But how do you enthuse them to get started? 

 

Not convinced shows are the place for this. I came to it with very little prior knowledge through the internet. Clubs are the other obvious place .... maybe having more marketing etc for local clubs might be an approach?

[APOLLO]

Nice Jub 65179 - then again all Jubs were nice.

 

The goal of my Brother and I's journey back ion the 5th August 1967 was to travel behind a Jubilee for the last time.

 

DMU to Man Vic then a mucky standard 73045 took us from Manchester to Huddersfield, a nondescript DMU onward to Leeds

 

 

Here is 45562 Alberta at Leeds - about to take us on the 10.17am express (ex Birmingham) to Carlisle where she was replaced by a Brit. What a wonderful journey she gave us over the S&C.  The only trip I remember behind a Jub - Shame she was scrapped a while later.

 

 

Here is 70028 at Carlisle ready to take the train on to Glasgow.

 

 

A tatty old Black 5 44911 took us from Carlisle to Preston over Shap, DMU home from Preston to Wigan

 

 

Wonderful days. I didn't count the rivets, look at tender types etc. I just rode the trains with head out of window as near as possible to the loco. My hair was unkempt and my eyes full of cinders. My models back then were crude Triang TT & BEC cast kits. (still have 'em).

 

I try to recreate these (sort of) scenes, RTR kit built - anything - if it moves it runs !!!!! Does it REALLY matter what where who made your models are ?

 

Boy would I swap my stuff now for the reality of back then.

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

Nice Jub 65179 - then again all Jubs were nice.

 

The goal of my Brother and I's journey back ion the 5th August 1967 was to travel behind a Jubilee for the last time.

 

DMU to Man Vic then a mucky standard 73045 took us from Manchester to Huddersfield, a nondescript DMU onward to Leeds

 

2013-01-09-21-14-48.jpg

 

Here is 45562 Alberta at Leeds - about to take us on the 10.17am express (ex Birmingham) to Carlisle where she was replaced by a Brit. What a wonderful journey she gave us over the S&C.  The only trip I remember behind a Jub - Shame she was scrapped a while later.

 

2013-01-09-21-13-12.jpg

 

Here is 70028 at Carlisle ready to take the train on to Glasgow.

 

2013-01-09-21-11-09.jpg

 

A tatty old Black 5 44911 took us from Carlisle to Preston over Shap, DMU home from Preston to Wigan

 

2013-01-09-20-17-07.jpg

 

Wonderful days. I didn't count the rivets, look at tender types etc. I just rode the trains with head out of window as near as possible to the loco. My hair was unkempt and my eyes full of cinders. My models back then were crude Triang TT & BEC cast kits. (still have 'em).

 

I try to recreate these (sort of) scenes, RTR kit built - anything - if it moves it runs !!!!! Does it REALLY matter what where who made your models are ?

 

Boy would I swap my stuff now for the reality of back then.

 

Brit15

And where are the photos of the nondescript DMUs?

[APOLLO]

And where are the photos of the nondescript DMUs?

 

OOOOPS !!! - I thought they (like steam locos) would last for ever - they were new (ish) back then (and disliked) - so I never took many ( if any) - Honest answer.

 

Quick look at my scans & photos - I can't find any DMU pix. I have a few DMU models though, my first was the Tri-ang TT  unit - a superb model.

 

DMU's (green & blue uns) - Hated them back then, I've a (bit of a) soft spot for them now.

 

Brit15

Edited January 15, 2019 by APOLLO

[Mike 84C]

Brit 15 and guys like you, I very much admire your keenness to chase steam all over the country. I worked on the railway during those times and did non of those things! rarely carried a camera. Probably too busy trying to earn a living. But I do like your photos from 5/8/67 I'm glad you took them and thanks for posting.

[APOLLO]

Found one DMU photo Clive, A Wigan - Liverpool DMU on the snowy 8th Feb 1969 at Springs Branch Wigan (Liverpool curve)

 

 

Little tale about this line.

 

Back in the early 60's when I was around 10 years old I went trainspotting at Wigan North Western with my elder brother. A shiny brand new DMU came in from Liverpool - We were gobsmacked. we pooled our pocket money and had just enough for 2 return tickets to Bryn - the first station out towards Liverpool. So off we went - wonderful track view sat behind the driver. On leaving the train at Bryn I remember saying "one day I'll go the full journey to Liverpool" - back then it may have well been a thousand miles away !!!!!  This was the first train journey I remember.

 

In 1969 I started my engineering apprenticeship and had to travel daily to Riversdale college at Liverpool - the journey had lost it's shine somewhat !!

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Theakerr]

I have just built an ancient Wills N7 kit and am in the process of building a DJH A2 Pacific.  If I ask myself is it worth the effort?  The answer is a categorical NO!  

The N7 kit was a freebie and I just happened to have a proprietary chassis that could be adapted to fit it and was sitting around doing nothing, so the direct costs are minimal.  However, the kit is a very basic kit designed to go on the old Triang Jinty chassis and does not include things such as pipes, lamp irons and handrails.   All of which i have added, but I still have to paint and line it.  However, at the end of the day it will not be close to the quality of the one available from Oxford.  The A2 was a very partially assembled second hand kit that I purchased for Can$80.  It came with the wheels, a DJH gearbox and Mashima motor so it was a good buy.  But I had to repair the gearbox due to a stripped gear wheel and the chassis had to be completely disassembled and rebuilt.  I am also finding it a very difficult kit to build in terms of getting stuff to align and I still don't know how I am going to do the brakes because there just isn't clearance to do it the designed way.  Having watched Tony's video I don't quiet know why this is the case, but it is.  Note, I have built several locos before so I am not a complete novice.  Again though, at the end of the day it will not be close to the fit and finish quality of my Bachmann, which, with a bit of weight added, will pull 12/14 Bachmann Mk1s although I only need it to pull 9/10.  I will over time finish both of them, basically because I want to and I do get a 'kick' out of seeing my own builds.  However, I have to ask myself is this a smart way to allocate time when the railway is still missing point rodding and signal wires, road signs, full station signs, correct LNER/BR(E) bench seats, a number of RTR locos and rolling stock that need detailing and weathering, etc.  This is not an attempt to slag anybody, but I do suggest that we all have to evaluate our own circumstances and reach a decision that makes sense to our own situation.

[Jesse Sim]

May I offer these? Reaching a temp of 38 today, so when I’m not working I’m in the air conditioning playing some trains.

 

Heading south with a parcels train is a Raven A2, the new extension is evident here, as originally there was a sharp curve immediately after the third vehicle. Makes everything look much more realistic, especially on long goods trains.

 

 

Looking the other direction, the photographer standing in the middle of the private coal merchant siding, we see a J11 gliding through Brighton Junction on its way north with load of empty PO wagons, with the second vehicle being a bogie Brick wagon. Whilst another J11 stands in the up loop with a stopping goods.

 

[Chamby]

May I offer these? Reaching a temp of 38 today, so when I’m not working I’m in the air conditioning playing some trains.

Heading south with a parcels train is a Raven A2, the new extension is evident here, as originally there was a sharp curve immediately after the third vehicle. Makes everything look much more realistic, especially on long goods trains.

4DF6FA2F-0913-41A3-85A0-53755FA9D1C4.jpeg

Looking the other direction, the photographer standing in the middle of the private coal merchant siding, we see a J11 gliding through Brighton Junction on its way north with load of empty PO wagons, with the second vehicle being a bogie Brick wagon. Whilst another J11 stands in the up loop with a stopping goods.

65729156-2B53-4208-86D5-E77077FFD68D.jpeg

That’s nicely laid trackwork you have there, Jesse!