Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

1 minute ago, cctransuk said:

 

But that is exactly my point - most of your potential purchasers would not have bought the components in the first place.

 

Their offers will reflect the fact that they would like to own the model, but that they have long ago accepted the fact that commissioning kit-built models are beyond their reach, and so they do without.

 

I think that, being a lifelong kit builder, accustomed to the heady prices paid by those few with the necessary wherewithal, you have to some extent lost touch with what the wider market can afford to pay for locos - RTR or kitbuilt.

 

The market for the models that you offer for sale, at the prices that you feel would be justified, is tiny / non-existent.

 

Sorry,

John Isherwood.

No need to say 'sorry' John,

 

Perhaps I have lost touch, and I'm definitely going to drop this business of finding new homes for models on behalf of the bereaved or the families of those who are now too ill to make models any more. Despite a fair bit going to CRUK, it's just not worth it.

 

Why not? Our garage and my workshop are full of boxes (Mo is the most-tolerant wife in the world, but even she has a threshold). I've spent all this morning on the computer, answering queries, when I should be making things. I should also be getting the final 20 locos in the collection going again (I've managed four!). 

 

What else? I'm sick of causing queues in the Post Office, and when a month's bill at the place comes to over £500.00 for postage, how many rolls of wrapping paper, Sellotape and brown tape does that represent? Not to mention the time taken in wrapping everything up and writing labels. 

 

My contribution to the 'worthy causes' is my time. I wonder what 'value' that has? By giving up my 'new job', just think how much more time I'll have. It'll be much easier if I just set up a standing order for CRUK and leave it at that.

 

So, if anyone out there thinks I can help in getting a 'reasonable' price for their late husband's models, may I politely suggest henceforth 'forget it as far as I'm concerned'? I'll ask them to find someone who 'hasn't lost touch'. 

 

It could be argued that I was naive in taking this sort of thing on; it definitely wasn't a conscious decision to take a different 'career path'. Naive enough to be disappointed when folk don't even offer the cost of a kit's bits - in fact £100.00 less in a couple of cases!

 

Do you fancy volunteering?

 

Anyway, the good news. Three locos have sold for what I've asked, or, in one case, more! Altruism is still alive and well in some cases. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[Northmoor]

59 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

I have so far raised around £7,500 from the items I have been selling, not counting the latest round of kit sales by Tony.

 

I still have lots of RTR stock to dispose of, including this lot that I had to store in the loft temporarily and that has not been catalogued. It's mostly 1990s Bachmann, Lima and Mainline so probably not worth much other than anything with collector interest. I shall probably dispose of it in bulk along with the other stock I have left.

 

IMG_0996s by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Robert - I am still interested in a potential bulk purchase or to help with selling.

 

Rob

[Clem]

53 minutes ago, jrg1 said:

Perhaps a dental burr at slow speed?

Yes. Thanks. Must get some in, although the mini milling piece is a bit like a dental burr for a bear or a lion. Funnily enough, I'm not having the same problems with melted plastic clogging the cutter that I have done in the past.

[cctransuk]

14 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

No need to say 'sorry' John,

 

Perhaps I have lost touch, and I'm definitely going to drop this business of finding new homes for models on behalf of the bereaved or the families of those who are now too ill to make models any more. Despite a fair bit going to CRUK, it's just not worth it.

 

Why not? Our garage and my workshop are full of boxes (Mo is the most-tolerant wife in the world, but even she has a threshold). I've spent all this morning on the computer, answering queries, when I should be making things. I should also be getting the final 20 locos in the collection going again (I've managed four!). 

 

What else? I'm sick of causing queues in the Post Office, and when a month's bill at the place comes to over £500.00 for postage, how many rolls of wrapping paper, Sellotape and brown tape does that represent? Not to mention the time taken in wrapping everything up and writing labels. 

 

My contribution to the 'worthy causes' is my time. I wonder what 'value' that has? By giving up my 'new job', just think how much more time I'll have. It'll be much easier if I just set up a standing order for CRUK and leave it at that.

 

So, if anyone out there thinks I can help in getting a 'reasonable' price for their late husband's models, may I politely suggest henceforth 'forget it as far as I'm concerned'? I'll ask them to find someone who 'hasn't lost touch'. 

 

It could be argued that I was naive in taking this sort of thing on; it definitely wasn't a conscious decision to take a different 'career path'. Naive enough to be disappointed when folk don't even offer the cost of a kit's bits - in fact £100.00 less in a couple of cases!

 

Do you fancy volunteering?

 

Anyway, the good news. Three locos have sold for what I've asked, or, in one case, more! Altruism is still alive and well in some cases. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

Tony,

 

I don't underestimate your input into this most laudable of undertakings - I certainly don't expect anyone to try and do the same with my collection when the time comes. I've already told the family, in no uncertain terms, to call in a box-shifter who deals in secondhand models and take what (little) is offered.

 

I can understand your disillusionment, too - and I do know the commitment that is necessary in order to market what someone else no longer has a use for; I am currently disposing of the remainder of John Talbot's Appleby Model Engineering's stock.

 

In doing the latter, I priced the items to sell readily - it's pointless trying to realise their original price. Pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap; it's the only way. Unfortunately, the skill, time and effort put into original production has no value as such.

 

Sad but true.

 

John Isherwood.

[Mallard60022]

Just a couple of points.

Re the Make up Brushes; I once saw a layout where there was a beautifully soft brush or maybe a couple, over the tracks 'off stage' where every train would run eventually. I think it was after the FY Throat at one end IIRC? The bristles were so soft and did not catch anything (steam and diesel era) and such a soft touch from the bristles.

Also, Vectis charge large amounts of commission and 30% to buyers + postage. I would seriously consider other outlets. There are a couple of other Auction houses that do Toys and Models at less commission.

 

Sadly there are none of these engines that I would be able to use. Not even the SR ones. Sorry about that.

Sincerely,

Phil

 

[Mallard60022]

4 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Tony,

I don't underestimate your input into this most laudable of undertakings - I certainly don't expect anyone to try and do the same with my collection when the time comes. I've already told the family, in no uncertain terms, to call in a box-shifter who deals in secondhand models and take what (little) is offered.

 

I can understand your disillusionment, too - and I do know the commitment that is necessary in order to market what someone else no longer has a use for; I am currently disposing of the remainder of John Talbot's Appleby Model Engineering's stock.

In doing the latter, I priced the items to sell readily - it's pointless trying to realise their original price. Pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap; it's the only way. Unfortunately, the skill, time and effort put into original production has no value as such.

Sad but true.

John Isherwood.

Well said John. My instructions on my scrapping, are for a couple of much younger 'friends' and my older son, who have  a knowledge of  MR stuff and where to get it 'sold' for the Estate, to deal with  all the stock, taking stuff that they may want for a donation to Charity. Some (mainly Diesels) will just be going to a local Club for nowt and maybe a local Charity shop for the old Triang Hornby 'toys'.

If they can salvage any of the track and find someone that wants it for a donation, then fine. Controls etc the same. The rest will be dismantled, skipped and or recycled.

This enables my widow, at a sad time, to have to do very little except maybe choose a couple of momento pieces and also get some small repayment for the silly amounts I have spent, over many years, on my hobby.

Tis written down and with my Will Papers....I recommend doing that.

Phil

[Northmoor]

3 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Just a couple of points.

Re the Make up Brushes; I once saw a layout where there was a beautifully soft brush or maybe a couple, over the tracks 'off stage' where every train would run eventually. I think it was after the FY Throat at one end IIRC? The bristles were so soft and did not catch anything (steam and diesel era) and such a soft touch from the bristles.

Also, Vectis charge large amounts of commission and 30% to buyers + postage. I would seriously consider other outlets. There are a couple of other Auction houses that do Toys and Models at less commission.

 

Sadly there are none of these engines that I would be able to use. Not even the SR ones. Sorry about that.

Sincerely,

Phil

 

It seems a lot but in most cases we are talking about low value items.  It depends whether you want 70% of a better price (because 100s/1000s will see the listing) or 100% of not a lot (which you might have to wait a very long time for).

 

When I used to buy and sell via eBay, I would set my maximum bid for a job lot at the value which would give me a gross profit of 30%.  It seems a lot but listing and other fees for the items I resold, took about 10%.  Then there's the packaging that I didn't charge for (it's mostly recycled).  I can entirely sympathise with Tony for how long the wrapping and posting takes.

 

Is it so unreasonable for someone who buys two locomotives for £100, takes time to test them, perhaps make minor repairs (sometimes not so minor), take time to photograph them properly and to write a detailed listing, to make themselves £20?  

[Dave John]

I applaud what you are trying to do Tony, your support of CRUK is appreciated. 

 

On a personal note I love to see well made kit or scratchbuilt models. Any sort of model, not just railways. I fully appreciate the skill and time that has gone into making them. 

 

But my enjoyment of the hobby is sitting down and scratch or kit building a model for myself. A lot of folk are the same as me, they just like the making side of things. So no matter how well made a model is I wouldn't be tempted since I would not have the enjoyment of making it. 

 

Not all people are like me though we are I think a significant sectio , but I suppose it does reduce the number of potential buyers for made up kits. 

 

 

[Mallard60022]

3 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

It seems a lot but in most cases we are talking about low value items.  It depends whether you want 70% of a better price (because 100s/1000s will see the listing) or 100% of not a lot (which you might have to wait a very long time for).

 

When I used to buy and sell via eBay, I would set my maximum bid for a job lot at the value which would give me a gross profit of 30%.  It seems a lot but listing and other fees for the items I resold, took about 10%.  Then there's the packaging that I didn't charge for (it's mostly recycled).  I can entirely sympathise with Tony for how long the wrapping and posting takes.

 

Is it so unreasonable for someone who buys two locomotives for £100, takes time to test them, perhaps make minor repairs (sometimes not so minor), take time to photograph them properly and to write a detailed listing, to make themselves £20?  

Did I suggest they shouldn't? I'd be going for more than that. Vectis take a selling% and then the buyer pays 30% + post. That's steep in my opinion. EBay is different.

P

Edited July 11, 2021 by Mallard60022

[Craigw]

10 minutes ago, Dave John said:

I applaud what you are trying to do Tony, your support of CRUK is appreciated. 

 

On a personal note I love to see well made kit or scratchbuilt models. Any sort of model, not just railways. I fully appreciate the skill and time that has gone into making them. 

 

But my enjoyment of the hobby is sitting down and scratch or kit building a model for myself. A lot of folk are the same as me, they just like the making side of things. So no matter how well made a model is I wouldn't be tempted since I would not have the enjoyment of making it. 

 

Not all people are like me though we are I think a significant sectio , but I suppose it does reduce the number of potential buyers for made up kits. 

 

 

 

I think that is where my approach on things is different. I do appreciate well made models and if they fit into my scheme of things I will happily buy them. There are other things I have that I see and decide I would like.  Not RTR, but kitbuilt. I have a P4 Clayton and MR Kitson 0-4-0 that are like this. 

 

Having said that, my preference is still building things But sometimes you see something too nice to pass up.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[Clive Mortimore]

I can understand Tony's frustration that the offers seem to be less than the cost of the parts when new, let alone throw in the cost of "professional" building and painting. Unfortunately a made kit that has seen 20 years service or 20 years in a display cabinet will only reach what people in the market are willing to pay. It is a fact of modern railway modelling that made kits depreciate in value compared to the cost of the parts unmade. 

 

Remember everything has no value unless there is a buyer. The buyer dictates the price. If too much is being asked and the buyer says no it goes back to being worthless.  

[Tony Wright]

I know Tim Watson of CF drops in on here from time to time.

 

Would you mind sending me a PM, please, Tim? Looking through my sources, I don't have your contact details, other than at Guy's. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[gr.king]

Given the apparent difficulty in realising prices for these locos that reflect the original costs of hand building, is it worth asking whether the time, effort and materials that are now being put, in some cases, into repair, adjustments, cleaning, freeing-off, test running and so on are justified? I don't say that it is so, but might there be a market for them, at almost the same prices, in the un-touched state? I know that the comparison is not "like for like" but in the realm of classic road vehicles for instance some very rough rarities dragged out of old barns are apparently "worth" more to the potential restorer just as they were found, even before the filth of decades is cleaned off!

Feel free to dismiss the idea out of hand - but even the daftest ideas are sometimes worth considering.

[Compound2632]

6 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Given the apparent difficulty in realising prices for these locos that reflect the original costs of hand building, is it worth asking whether the time, effort and materials that are now being put, in some cases, into repair, adjustments, cleaning, freeing-off, test running and so on are justified? I don't say that it is so, but might there be a market for them, at almost the same prices, in the un-touched state? I know that the comparison is not "like for like" but in the realm of classic road vehicles for instance some very rough rarities dragged out of old barns are apparently "worth" more to the potential restorer just as they were found, even before the filth of decades is cleaned off!

Feel free to dismiss the idea out of hand - but even the daftest ideas are sometimes worth considering.

 

Unbuilt kit - priceless

Built kit (by unknown builder) - practically worthless

Built kit by unknown builder serviced by T. Wright - par

?

[Mallard60022]

7 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Unbuilt kit - priceless

Built kit (by unknown builder) - practically worthless

Built kit by unknown builder serviced by T. Wright - par

?

Unbuilt kit priceless? Umm? Decreasing number of people willing or wanting to build steam loco older kits or even any kits.

P

[pete55]

6 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Unbuilt kit priceless? Umm? Decreasing number of people willing or wanting to build steam loco older kits or even any kits.

P

 

Judging by the high prices many unbuilt kits sell for on ebay, yes, they would appear to be!!

[Roger Sunderland]

Tony

i wonder if it may be helpful to list what is available and the price you think it is worth, bearing in mind quality, finish, motor etc. I think some people may be put off by fear of making an offer that is either ridiculously below the value or too high. Just a thought.

[rowanj]

I suppose I should have to "come clean" as one of the folk who offered £100 less than the cost of the parts. In my defence, I did so a) in ignorance of the cost , or how Tony has calculated it.  b) what the locos in question were WORTH to me in the context of my layout's location  c) how much I was willing to spend (my "go-to" policy on what I spend on the hobby, especially in auctions.

 

I already have kits for both of the locos concerned, and building further ones would be within the budget of my offer, given that I have a supply of wheels and motors already in stock. There were only a couple of reasons why I even considered making an offer. 1} I can't build to the standard of those locos. 2} I wanted to support CRUK. 3) I trusted Tony's judgement on the quality of the running.

 

I totally respect Tony's desire to help the estate concerned, and admire his efforts and his support for CRUK, a cause close to my heart. I'm sorry this endeavour has gone the way it seems to have done so.

 

I imagine wheels and motors are part of the assessment of "cost of parts". Portescaps more than 20 years old go for £80+ on Ebay. It makes a brand new DJH AM9/10 seem quite reasonable. 

 

[Barry O]

3 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Did I suggest they shouldn't? I'd be going for more than that. Vectis take a selling% and then the buyer pays 30% + post. That's steep in my opinion. EBay is different.

P

I sold a lot items for a former Early Riser who had died. I sent a set of six Hornby A4s to Vectis.

 

A)  they realised a lot more than on ebay

B) Vectis charged less than EBay and Paypal  would have done

C) it was a lot less hassle than selling on Ebay especially with the new wave of timewasters who have arrived on EBAY since lockdown began.

 

Baz

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Roger Sunderland said:

Tony

i wonder if it may be helpful to list what is available and the price you think it is worth, bearing in mind quality, finish, motor etc. I think some people may be put off by fear of making an offer that is either ridiculously below the value or too high. Just a thought.

That might be a good idea Roger.

 

I'll look into it.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[LNER4479]

3 hours ago, Roger Sunderland said:

Tony

i wonder if it may be helpful to list what is available and the price you think it is worth, bearing in mind quality, finish, motor etc. I think some people may be put off by fear of making an offer that is either ridiculously below the value or too high. Just a thought.

 

 

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, gr.king said:

Given the apparent difficulty in realising prices for these locos that reflect the original costs of hand building, is it worth asking whether the time, effort and materials that are now being put, in some cases, into repair, adjustments, cleaning, freeing-off, test running and so on are justified? I don't say that it is so, but might there be a market for them, at almost the same prices, in the un-touched state? I know that the comparison is not "like for like" but in the realm of classic road vehicles for instance some very rough rarities dragged out of old barns are apparently "worth" more to the potential restorer just as they were found, even before the filth of decades is cleaned off!

Feel free to dismiss the idea out of hand - but even the daftest ideas are sometimes worth considering.

Thanks Graeme,

 

I think there's a greater chance of selling any of the locos if I can get them to work. That's relative, of course; by 'work' I mean they'll run without jerking or stuttering, but older motors tend to be noisy (in a different way to Portescaps). I also have no control over what type of track the new owners have, nor the radius of their curves. The locos I've got running well will perform on LB, but that's a minimum radius of 3'. 

 

Every one has been inspected, cleaned, adjusted and test-run now. Out of the 50 or so, there are only three 'duds'.

 

This trio...................

 

 

The further J39 runs but it's got a tight spot and it wobbles along. I freed up its Portescap (NOT by twisting its friction-fit drivers), but the running is poor. I'd junk the drivers, fit 'decent' ones which won't wobble or go out of quartering and tweak the rods. Then, an excellent model will result. 

 

The nearer J39 (both SE Finecast, by the way) has decent drivers but its motor is in the tender. It's supposed to drive on to the rear driven axle by some sort of UJ, but it's all come loose. The motor whines away, but nothing moves. I'd make it loco-drive.

 

The L1 is from an ABS kit and it's very well-painted. However, despite my freeing its Portescap (again, NOT by twisting the drivers), it's a bit of a cripple. It wasn't at first. Flushed with success at getting it to run freely, I put the body back on and wound it right up. Disaster; the drivers slipped on the their axles, locking up everything solid again. I freed it, but now the quartering goes out all the time. How folk get on with these wretched friction-fit wheels, I have no idea. 

 

The irony is all three locos are very well-built (body-wise), and certainly competently-painted. I don't have the time (nor the inclination) to effectively rebuild them mechanically. That said, they'd make a fine project for anyone to undertake.

 

To that end, I'm offering them at £90.00 each, should anyone be interested. Don't Portescaps go for that? There you are (the generic 'you'), take out the Portescaps and throw away the rest! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[MJI]

If I was selling I would be more concerned that they went to someone who would appreciate them more than cold cash

[polybear]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Graeme,

 

I think there's a greater chance of selling any of the locos if I can get them to work. That's relative, of course; by 'work' I mean they'll run without jerking or stuttering, but older motors tend to be noisy (in a different way to Portescaps). I also have no control over what type of track the new owners have, nor the radius of their curves. The locos I've got running well will perform on LB, but that's a minimum radius of 3'. 

 

Every one has been inspected, cleaned, adjusted and test-run now. Out of the 50 or so, there are only three 'duds'.

 

This trio...................

 

 

The further J39 runs but it's got a tight spot and it wobbles along. I freed up its Portescap (NOT by twisting its friction-fit drivers), but the running is poor. I'd junk the drivers, fit 'decent' ones which won't wobble or go out of quartering and tweak the rods. Then, an excellent model will result. 

 

The nearer J39 (both SE Finecast, by the way) has decent drivers but its motor is in the tender. It's supposed to drive on to the rear driven axle by some sort of UJ, but it's all come loose. The motor whines away, but nothing moves. I'd make it loco-drive.

 

The L1 is from an ABS kit and it's very well-painted. However, despite my freeing its Portescap (again, NOT by twisting the drivers), it's a bit of a cripple. It wasn't at first. Flushed with success at getting it to run freely, I put the body back on and wound it right up. Disaster; the drivers slipped on the their axles, locking up everything solid again. I freed it, but now the quartering goes out all the time. How folk get on with these wretched friction-fit wheels, I have no idea. 

 

The irony is all three locos are very well-built (body-wise), and certainly competently-painted. I don't have the time (nor the inclination) to effectively rebuild them mechanically. That said, they'd make a fine project for anyone to undertake.

 

To that end, I'm offering them at £90.00 each, should anyone be interested. Don't Portescaps go for that? There you are (the generic 'you'), take out the Portescaps and throw away the rest! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Hi Tony,

I'd love the L1 please - pm sent.

Kind Regards,

Brian

Edited July 11, 2021 by polybear

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, rowanj said:

I suppose I should have to "come clean" as one of the folk who offered £100 less than the cost of the parts. In my defence, I did so a) in ignorance of the cost , or how Tony has calculated it.  b) what the locos in question were WORTH to me in the context of my layout's location  c) how much I was willing to spend (my "go-to" policy on what I spend on the hobby, especially in auctions.

 

I already have kits for both of the locos concerned, and building further ones would be within the budget of my offer, given that I have a supply of wheels and motors already in stock. There were only a couple of reasons why I even considered making an offer. 1} I can't build to the standard of those locos. 2} I wanted to support CRUK. 3) I trusted Tony's judgement on the quality of the running.

 

I totally respect Tony's desire to help the estate concerned, and admire his efforts and his support for CRUK, a cause close to my heart. I'm sorry this endeavour has gone the way it seems to have done so.

 

I imagine wheels and motors are part of the assessment of "cost of parts". Portescaps more than 20 years old go for £80+ on Ebay. It makes a brand new DJH AM9/10 seem quite reasonable. 

 

There's no imperative to 'come clean', John, though thanks all the same. 

 

Despite my initial 'depressed' comments of earlier today, I'm happy to report that now I've made over £2,000.00 for the widow, with more promised. My most grateful thanks to those kind folk who've committed to buying them. 

 

There are still some more, of course...................

 

 

A scratch-built J50 and scratch-built N1. 

 

 

From the construction, I'm sure these are the work of the late John Edgson (Isinglass). 

 

Massive KTM motors were the order of the day back then. 

 

A J50 is available RTR now, of course.............. However, that's just made of plastic. 

 

 

But not an N1, so it's scratch or a kit, like this Little Engines example. 

 

The Ivatt 4 (Millholme) is definitely available RTR, and the Bachmann example is certainly superior. But, this one has 'character'. 

 

Next, a couple from your part of the world...........

 

 

The K1 is built from a Nu-Cast kit, and is an absolute beauty. It runs as well as it looks. Interestingly, I have some of the provenance for this. It was a commission for Nu-cast to build, and the price quoted for the work (building/painting) was around £250.00 (nearly 40 years ago, and not including parts). I'll be lucky to get than now! 

 

The class is also now available RTR from Hornby, at far less than the all-those-years-ago build cost of this.

 

As for the T1? What chance of that coming out RTR? A cold day in Hell?

 

This is built from a Little Engines kit, by Ron Goult himself.  

 

Regards,

 

Tony.