Wright writes.....

[DougN]

Gees I would even be in to that. Problem is bank account keeps arguing with me and saying no! The other thing would be Tony trying to pick on me for building to P4!  8-)

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

Drinking, Railway Modelling expertise and LB, I'll take two backstage passes!!

 

But Tony, would it work? Surely you would get the numbers, you would need security! 

Would it work, Jesse? 

 

Who knows? I'll just make some initial enquiries at the pub.

 

As for 'security', any potential 'students' would be vetted first, of course.

 

Regarding Doug's comment above regarding his building in P4, I've actually shown 'pupils' who were working in the correct gauge how to assemble valve gear.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[Tony Wright]

13 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

 

I don't quite agree with Sir's logic there. If the layout wiring is the plumbing, all you've done is run hot water (DCC)  through it instead of cold water (DC). You could just as easily take a DCC layout and run DC through it.

 

(Edit - just back from a run with a slightly clearer head so will amplify: I think all that's been proven is that LB is well wired. Any well-wired layout could be run in either DC or DCC mode. Obviously in the latter case a layout might not have any section switches so it might be a case of DC only being capable with one engine in steam, but that wouldn't preclude running an engine for test purposes. And a DCC layout fitted with frog juicers and the like wouldn't be capable of being run in DC mode, but of the four DCC layouts I've built, only the most recent of them had such gadgetry. Why? Because it's based around French RTR HO and will never need to run a non-DCC engine.)

 

As you were.

My 'logic' is always easy to disagree with, Al,

 

You're quite right, of course. All I did was attach the DCC system (a Bachmann Dynamis) to two chocolate block connectors attached to two wires from the track and Howard coupled the lot together and worked through the various commands. All the necessary section switches for running DC were 'on', and my own control system was completely switched off (points and signals are, correctly, separate from the loco control). 

 

All in all, the little J36 worked perfectly on DCC. I have to say, I find it odd that it won't work on DC 'as bought'. I've run dozens of DCC locos on LB, and they work very well - if taking slightly longer to start. The only 'problem' occurs if there's a short circuit, which can fry a chip or a motor instantly. I assume DCC systems cut-out faster than DC ones if a short is detected? Why Hornby now supply their DCC locos in this way, I don't know. Yes, to those with the knowledge and the set-up (Coastal Digital, for instance, who made the DCC 'Nelson' work on DC in seconds - thank you Kevin) it's a doddle, but for those like me, who'll never use DCC, then it would appear to be limiting, at least for basic test purposes.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Question, please?

 

What are frog juicers? Surely nothing to do with French cuisine! 

[The Fatadder]

14 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

 

I(Edit - just back from a run with a slightly clearer head so will amplify: I think all that's been proven is that LB is well wired. Any well-wired layout could be run in either DC or DCC mode. Obviously in the latter case a layout might not have any section switches so it might be a case of DC only being capable with one engine in steam, but that wouldn't preclude running an engine for test purposes. 

The problem comes when you wire up your fiddle yard traverser for DCC and then decide to run the layout in DC mode.....

I was very glad that I added some screws in the middle of the tracks as a last minute modification, they saved a few locos from a long drop at Taunton!

[Clive Mortimore]

27 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Question, please?

 

What are frog juicers? Surely nothing to do with French cuisine! 

Hello Tony

 

They are (expensive) electronic switches for the crossing V on a point replacing the micro switch many use.

 

The crossing V is called a frog by quite a few modellers, does the name come form a horse's hoof? When helping Mrs M clean the horses feet there is a V shape bit of hoof on the under side which she calls the frog.

 

https://mackinnonproducts.com/blogs/learn/horse-hoof-anatomy-the-frog

 

Edited May 14, 2019 by Clive Mortimore
to add link

[Clive Mortimore]

As for frog juicers, in Peru you can get a Frog Smoothie, which a drink. 

[chris p bacon]

7 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

As for frog juicers, in Peru you can get a Frog Smoothie, which a drink. 

Probably a remedy for a croaky throat......

[thegreenhowards]

18 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

 

 

They are (expensive) electronic switches for the crossing V on a point replacing the micro switch many use.

 

 

Clive,

 

They used to be expensive. Gaugemaster do something called a DCC Autofrog (DCC80) which can be picked up for less than £5 each. I believe that this does the same thing as a frog juicer, although someone will probably tell me that it's less sophisticated. I think this is a very quick, easy and inexpensive way of changing the frog polarity.

 

On my layout, they don't stop DC engines running. The Autofrogs work by sensing a short circuit and changing the polarity before the short can shut down the system. Provided the points are set up on DCC before running a DC loco, then the DC loco will run perfectly happily through the point as the polarity has already been switched. I do this regularly for running in or for visiting friend's locos.

 

Andy

[Barry Ten]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hello Tony

 

They are (expensive) electronic switches for the crossing V on a point replacing the micro switch many use.

 

The crossing V is called a frog by quite a few modellers, does the name come form a horse's hoof? When helping Mrs M clean the horses feet there is a V shape bit of hoof on the under side which she calls the frog.

 

https://mackinnonproducts.com/blogs/learn/horse-hoof-anatomy-the-frog

 

 

I've always reckoned that's where "frog" comes from, and since metalworking is involved in both the shodding of horses, and the laying of track, you can imagine the term might have crossed over to railways. The crossing V is also called a frog in professional circles:

 

https://www.voestalpine.com/nortrak/en/products/Frogs-Solid-Self-Guarded-Manganese-Frogs-SSGM/

 

Al 

[Barry Ten]

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

 

Clive,

 

They used to be expensive. Gaugemaster do something called a DCC Autofrog (DCC80) which can be picked up for less than £5 each. I believe that this does the same thing as a frog juicer, although someone will probably tell me that it's less sophisticated. I think this is a very quick, easy and inexpensive way of changing the frog polarity.

 

On my layout, they don't stop DC engines running. The Autofrogs work by sensing a short circuit and changing the polarity before the short can shut down the system. Provided the points are set up on DCC before running a DC loco, then the DC loco will run perfectly happily through the point as the polarity has already been switched. I do this regularly for running in or for visiting friend's locos.

 

Andy

 

I've also used the Gaugemaster units and found them very reliable (so far) and easy and quick to wire up. There's some sort of relay in them as you can hear the click as they switch the polarity. they don't seem bad value to me given the ease of use.

[MarkC]

On 09/05/2019 at 11:25, Clive Mortimore said:

Evidence?

Bit late to the party, as it were, but the A Level Applied Mathematics JMB paper in 1996 was almost word for word the same one that I had sat at O Level in 1976 - and in 1976 we weren't allowed to use calculators...

[Clive Mortimore]

16 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

 

I've also used the Gaugemaster units and found them very reliable (so far) and easy and quick to wire up. There's some sort of relay in them as you can hear the click as they switch the polarity. they don't seem bad value to me given the ease of use.

Hi Al

 

The DCC80 has a self latching relay. The temporary shorting out causes circuity switch the relay and change the polarity of the frog. Phil the Duck was using them on Seaton Junction and at times they were not changing the polarity. The day I tried to help I don't think we found out what the problem was.

 

I use the Gaugemaster GM500 which are the DC self latching relays with no problems, I have mounted them in my control panel so no more trying get to a switch attached to a point motor  in a hunched up, upside down position under the baseboards.

[Atso]

Electronics are not my area of expertise (assuming I have such an area!). However, having helped operate a few exhibition layouts, I'm not a fan of micro switches - they always seem to fail at the worst possible time and usually at the exhibitions where the tech wizz isn't present! Therefore, I am using relays to change the polarity of the points (turnouts? What is the correct term?) on Hadley Wood. Actually to clarify, my father will be and (hopefully!) teaching me about such things in the process.

 

Anyway, I hope that Tony will be please to read that I've finally started to lay some track!

 

 

 

[Jesse Sim]

Apologies Tony for the hijacking, but it’s been driving me crazy.

 

Ive seen this rake come up multiple times in YouTube videos of The Gresley Beat and there is a distinctive photo of them in a BRM article. 

 

They are SR ballast hopper wagons and ballast brake vans hauled by an LNER locomotive. Jonathan and I have been discussing it on his thread and we can’t work out if they’re someone’s stock out on a run, but as I said it’s been seen multiple times, or there was a movement of this stock in the 30s. 

 

 

 

does anyone know anything? It’s been driving me insane. 

[Tony Wright]

I've now completed the chassis for my friend's ABS L1................

 

 

Looking back, it would appear I've been a bit harsh in commenting on my friend's work. 

 

At least he's had a go, though why he primed it before filling (note the saddle), I don't know. And, why paint the 'beams red, and coal it as well before painting it black? He'll fit the spectacle plate and roof (I assume he wants to detail the cab interior).

 

The valve gear was a bit of a fudge, but it'll have to do - some bits were missing, and the substitutes weren't the right size. At least it runs smoothly.  

 

 

Edited May 14, 2019 by Tony Wright
typo error

[MarkC]

18 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I've now completed the chassis for my friend's ABS L1................

 

 

Looking back, it would appear I've been a bit harsh in commenting on my friend's work. 

 

At least he's had a go, though why he primed it before filling (note the saddle), I don't know. And, why paint the 'beams red, and coal it as well before painting it black? He'll fit the spectacle plate and roof (I assume he wants to detail the cab interior).

 

The valve gear was a bit of a fudge, but it'll have to do - some bits were missing, and the substitutes weren't the right size. At least it runs smoothly.  

 

 

I have one of these kits in my roundtuit pile - are there any significant issues to be aware of with the chassis, Tony? Also, what motor/gearbox combination did you use please?

 

I wonder why the saddle/smokebox assembly hasn't gone together well? Something to be aware of, or simply not being careful enough?

[grahame]

40 minutes ago, Jesse Sim said:

Apologies Tony for the hijacking, but it’s been driving me crazy.

 

Ive seen this rake come up multiple times in YouTube videos of The Gresley Beat and there is a distinctive photo of them in a BRM article. 

 

They are SR ballast hopper wagons and ballast brake vans hauled by an LNER locomotive. Jonathan and I have been discussing it on his thread and we can’t work out if they’re someone’s stock out on a run, but as I said it’s been seen multiple times, or there was a movement of this stock in the 30s. 

 

 

 

does anyone know anything? It’s been driving me insane. 

 

AFAIA the SR Walrus/Sealion hopper wagons did get far and wide although the Gresley Beat location isn't far from Southern metals. These pics show examples at Doncaster, Littleton Colliery, Tyne and Wear, and York:  https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=sr+walrus+hopper+wagons&qpvt=sr+walrus+hopper+wagons&FORM=IGRE

 

Incidentally the 'SR' initials on POA/SSA scrap wagons didn't stand for 'Southern Region' but for 'Standard Railfreight' who were the owners.

 

G

 

[Steamport Southport]

1 minute ago, grahame said:

 

AFAIA the SR Walrus/Sealion hopper wagons did get far and wide although the Gresley Beat location isn't far from Southern metals. These pics show examples at Doncaster, Littleton Colliery, Tyne and Wear, and York:  https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=sr+walrus+hopper+wagons&qpvt=sr+walrus+hopper+wagons&FORM=IGRE

 

Incidentally the 'SR' initials on POA/SSA scrap wagons didn't stand for 'Southern Region' but for 'Standard Railfreight' who were the owners.

 

G

 

 

BR era though. BR adopted them as a standard design and built a lot of them.

 

ISTR the SR ones were "return to Meldon Quarry" which was the LSWRs ballast quarry. So they would work to where they were needed and return to Meldon. I wouldn't have thought they would have travelled to LNER territory.

 

 

 

Jason

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, MarkC said:

I have one of these kits in my roundtuit pile - are there any significant issues to be aware of with the chassis, Tony? Also, what motor/gearbox combination did you use please?

 

I wonder why the saddle/smokebox assembly hasn't gone together well? Something to be aware of, or simply not being careful enough?

Mark,

 

The chassis is all right, though it has a dirty great cut-out to accommodate an XO4-style motor. I've fitted a Portescap in the one I've done for my friend. In order to do this, a fair bit needed shaving off the inside of the frames, because they're soldered together in sandwich-form. 

 

It's rather showing its age. I think Nick Campling first brought the kit out under his East Coast Joint Models' label, along with a V4; some near-40 years ago? ABS took over the range, though I doubt if they're still available because of the Hornby RTR one. 

 

 

I built one when it was ECJM, all those years ago, painting it myself. Tom Foster subsequently weathered it for me. I altered it to represent one of the contract-built locos, with utility front end. I can't remember whether I had any issues with the saddle/smokebox fit. If I did, I've have filled any gap with solder. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[MarkC]

41 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Mark,

 

The chassis is all right, though it has a dirty great cut-out to accommodate an XO4-style motor. I've fitted a Portescap in the one I've done for my friend. In order to do this, a fair bit needed shaving off the inside of the frames, because they're soldered together in sandwich-form. 

 

It's rather showing its age. I think Nick Campling first brought the kit out under his East Coast Joint Models' label, along with a V4; some near-40 years ago? ABS took over the range, though I doubt if they're still available because of the Hornby RTR one. 

 

 

I built one when it was ECJM, all those years ago, painting it myself. Tom Foster subsequently weathered it for me. I altered it to represent one of the contract-built locos, with utility front end. I can't remember whether I had any issues with the saddle/smokebox fit. If I did, I've have filled any gap with solder. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Many thanks, Tony. I'll probably fit a High Level gearbox and the biggest motor I can fit into the beast when it gets to the top of the pile.

 

I suspect that you're right - the Hornby offering will have probably put the kybosh on the kit being produced, if indeed it was still being produced. They do still come up on eBay occasionally, of course.

 

Cheers

Mark

[The Stationmaster]

23 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

That's a good idea, Phil,

 

The Willoughby does do accommodation, and they have a suitable room. I'll make enquiries.

 

The weekend could be finished off with a running session on LB. 

 

What could be offered, I wonder? Loco-/coach-/stock-building? Painting and lining? Architecture? Scenery? Wiring? Certainly not DCC from me! 

 

I'll see what's possible, and how much it might all be.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I can see a major problem with this idea if it is a weekend course - too many pies 

 

But I can see a major advantage because it would actually incentivise somebody like me to roll up with kit, bits (like wheels and motor) and set out to (try to) assemble it and instead of sitting there and swearing at it when all goes wrong Sir would step in with helpful advice and stop me throwing said kit (chassis) across the room.  So overall, waistline apart, it strikes me a rather spiffing idea.  

 

I will ask Mrs Stationmaster to check again to see which account my second pension goes into. 

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

23 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

Certainly not DCC from me! 

 

 

Get Clive to do that.  

 

And have a swear box handy, as there'll soon be enough cash in it for a pie and a pint for every attendee.

[Clive Mortimore]

10 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

 

Get Clive to do that.  

 

And have a swear box handy, as there'll soon be enough cash in it for a pie and a pint for every attendee.

Yo Doc

 

I could quite happily instruct modellers how to fit a decoder, even hard wire it, program it, make the loco go chuff chuff or look like an illuminated attraction at Blackpool just it isn't for me.

[glo41f]

The East Coast Models L1 kit was developed by Gerry Brown (now decd). Nick Campling did the instructions as East Coast Models was a partnership of the two. Interestingly I built one which was running at the MRC test track in the 1970s and Frank Dyer arrived with his scratch built one. The ECJM one was a foot longer than Frank's and both he and Gerry used the same GA drawing!  Never found out why that happened. At the time we were pleased to have an L1 that looked something like the real ones of which there were a few stabled at my home shed at Ipswich.

 

(Would be interested in the proposed convention weekend).

 

Martin Long