Where are the Hornby models?

[Mike Storey]

Where are the Blue/Grey 4VEPs? - well Hornby says they will be here in just over a week - 9th Dec. We shall see.

 

Despite two email requests over the last two weeks to their customer services, asking if any improvements have been made over their earlier version, no reply received. They state that they aim to answer all queries within 5 working days. So it is not just their production and logistics where they have significant problems.

[southernelectric]

Despite two email requests over the last two weeks to their customer services, asking if any improvements have been made over their earlier version, no reply received. They state that they aim to answer all queries within 5 working days. So it is not just their production and logistics where they have significant problems.

 

I emailed the customer service department with two separate queries in August. Still waiting for a reply on both of them!

[Ian Hargrave]

I emailed the customer service department with two separate queries in August. Still waiting for a reply on both of them!

This has an old familiar ring to it.I am still awaiting delivery of an order placed a week ago last Thursday. Three phone calls finally produced an e mail providing a consignment number and an assurance it would be delivered after the weekend.....but despite 3 requests still no tracking number.Which is all very annoying as like most I need to make arrangements to be home to receive it...instead of sitting around wasting time waiting.

On Monday morning,I will need to ring my local UKMail depot to make more specific enquiries before I can plan to do anything.They are usually of more help than the chocolate teapot service from Hornby.....and at that time of the week I need to be elsewhere.

[leavesontheline]

For those who missed out on the new R3103 Bittern and are desperate enough to have one, Olivias Trains have them on at £200. They also seem to have plenty in stock !!!!

If anyone is still looking for these, whilst 'browsing'* in my local model shop this morning I noticed he still had one of these on the shelf. Can't remember the exact price but it was in the region of £120-£130-ish. Richards Railways in Yatton near Bristol if you are interested. He does mail order if you can't make it to the shop. Usual disclaimer applies - I have no link to the shop other than as a regular customer!

 

*I wasn't really just 'browsing'!

[Robin Brasher]

One of the latest arrivals from Hornby is the National Railway Museum M7 245 in LSWR livery produced in the CHL factory.  According to page 44 of The Book of the M7 0-4-4Ts by Peter Swift the prototype was painted in a standard commercial colour near to Drummond's shade of Royal Green and Hornby have reproduced this livery.  The colour is lighter than LSWR green Drummond in Appendix 4 HMRS Livery Register no 3 LSWR and Southern. As the prototype is not in working order I will run it on my model of the preserved Swanage Railway on the pretext that it has been restored to running order and has been loaned to the Swanage Railway. It is unlikely that M7s were used on the Swanage Railway in LSWR days as Adams Radial tanks operated the branch passenger and goods services.

[robmcg]

Thanks for the photo and the information that it is made at the CHL factory. I have one in the mail and wonder which factories will be doing any future Bulleid locos.

 

The green in your photo likes good, as in the Rails website, but in Hattons photos looks a bit flat. I'll wait until I see mine in the flesh before making final judgement.

 

With Bachmann planning SECR Bircage carriages are there any RTR carriages in existence which even remotely resemble what the LSWR might have used with pre-1922 M7s?

[Robin Brasher]

I think the old Tri-ang Dean panelled clerestory coaches can be made to look like LSWR coaches by replacing clerestory roofs with ordinary roofs and repainting them in LSWR chocolate and salmon pink livery. The Isle of Purbeck Model Railway Group made some LSWR push-pull coaches like this in Southern malachite green livery and they looked very effective. I bought some teak clerestories to convert as it seemed less of a sacrilege than to convert GWR coaches.  I have a photograph of a rake of GWR coaches at Swanage Station on a pre-grouping excursion train so it would look reasonably authentic to have an LSWR M7 hauling GWR clerestory coaches. Repainted Graham Farish suburbans are an alternative but these are not panelled stock so they may look too modern.

[Dunsignalling]

With Bachmann planning SECR Bircage carriages are there any RTR carriages in existence which even remotely resemble what the LSWR might have used with pre-1922 M7s?

Probably not, but that situation applies to almost all models of pre-group locos. I get the impression that most buyers are lococentric "Rule Oners" who mainly seem to just like the pretty liveries.

 

I doubt whether any r-t-r manufacturer would be likely to produce elaborately liveried matching stock unless they judged that enough of the people who buy the locos are serious pre-grouping enthusiasts who would be willing to part with the £50 or so (each) that such coaches would inevitably need to be sold for.

 

It should also be borne in mind that, pre-1922, M7s were still primarily used for main line suburban traffic rather than the short branch line trains with which they generally became associated after electrification was extended to almost all of the commuter network. 

 

Later, the SR moved some M7s to ex-SECR 'Birdcage' territory (rather than the other way round) but, having said that, I now confidently expect someone to post a photo of a Birdcage set on ex-LSWR metals!  

 

John

[shunny]

I have ordered one of Kernow's  DJ models LSWR brake vans to go with mine and they are also producing the LSWR gate coaches although not in LSWR livery at the moment but could be a future release.

[Robin Brasher]

In 0 gauge coarse scale Darstaed are producing 6 wheeled 32' coaches in 18 liveries including LBSCR, LSWR, SDJR and SECR for £265 for a set of four and a similar range of 48' 8 wheel coaches for £295 which I also assume is for a rake of four. These seem to be selling well so I expect similar coaches would sell well in 00 gauge at a price of £50 each which has been suggested. 

[Graham_Muz]

I have ordered one of Kernow's  DJ models LSWR brake vans to go with mine and they are also producing the LSWR gate coaches although not in LSWR livery at the moment but could be a future release.

I am afraid that LSWR livery is not an option for the Kernow gate stock as they were rebuilt in the early 1930s with to the standard SR 4 window front and so would not have carried LSWR livery in the form being produced without retooling which is unlikely.

[coachmann]

I get the impression that most buyers are lococentric "Rule Oners" who mainly seem to just like the pretty liveries.

Encapsulated on so few words. If folk want authentic coaches to run behind their pretty pregroup locos, they have been available as kits for many years. The perennial problem for most people is they cannot paint and line and so now that they have RTR locos in pre group liveries, they appear to expect matching RTR coaches. It can be done of course but how many would be bought relative to Big Four and BR liveries? This would determine the price and that in turn would almost certainly deter buyers. Bachmann has had Mainline's long in the tooth LMS Period I coaches in production for many years but it is significant that the company has never tooled up to turn them out in original 1924-34 full panelled livery, not even to match their MR Compound.

[Silver Sidelines]

I perhaps need correcting but didn't Dapol back in the 1990s produce their 12 wheel restaurant car in an early LMS livery?  I know they were very expensive back then - nearly £30 when a standard coach was more like £10.

 

Ray

[Hilux5972]

I believe Hornby now produce that 12 wheel coach. Have only seen it in BR colours recently.

[coachmann]

I perhaps need correcting but didn't Dapol back in the 1990s produce their 12 wheel restaurant car in an early LMS livery?  I know they were very expensive back then - nearly £30 when a standard coach was more like £10.

 

Ray

I don't remember that but then I didn't look at RTR before 2000. The only coaches that come to mind in LMS full panelled livery were done by Trix in the late 1960s, but of course there were many done in 0 gauge before and after the war by the likes of Hornby and Bassett Lowke, not to mention specials by Exley.

[Andy Hayter]

Probably not, but that situation applies to almost all models of pre-group locos. I get the impression that most buyers are lococentric "Rule Oners" who mainly seem to just like the pretty liveries.

 

I doubt whether any r-t-r manufacturer would be likely to produce elaborately liveried matching stock unless they judged that enough of the people who buy the locos are serious pre-grouping enthusiasts who would be willing to part with the £50 or so (each) that such coaches would inevitably need to be sold for.

 

 

 

John

 

 

It is rather chicken and egg though isn't it?

No one buys pre-group coaches at £50.  Therefore no one produces any, therefore no one can buy.........

 

With the current cost of coaches approaching £50 anyway, a little extra for a lined pre-group livery may be less than a bar now than in the past.

 

I have posted elsewhere that every modeller will want a rake of coaches to go behind his loco.  The problem for the model manufacturer is that once he has his rake it will do to run behind several different locos, so your rake of Gresley 61ft coaches will run behind the A4, A3. A1, V2 etc and you quickly end up with one coach sold per loco.  With the advent of isolated pre-group locos being produced as rtr,  Manufacturers have an opportunity to sell a rake of coaches that are only suitable for that loco and the sales ratio of coaches to locos will increase.

 

It will be interesting to see when the SECR bird cage coaches appear, whether their sales bear out my theory.

[Monkey28]

I see that Hornby seem to have found more double tender bittern's on there website.  sure they were sold out a few days ago after I had ordered one wasn't sure if it would turn up but it did thank god 

 

can only imagine what it is like for retailers not knowing whether they will have anything to sell or even meet there preorders.

[Dunsignalling]

It is rather chicken and egg though isn't it?

No one buys pre-group coaches at £50.  Therefore no one produces any, therefore no one can buy.........

 

With the current cost of coaches approaching £50 anyway, a little extra for a lined pre-group livery may be less than a bar now than in the past.

 

I have posted elsewhere that every modeller will want a rake of coaches to go behind his loco.  The problem for the model manufacturer is that once he has his rake it will do to run behind several different locos, so your rake of Gresley 61ft coaches will run behind the A4, A3. A1, V2 etc and you quickly end up with one coach sold per loco.  With the advent of isolated pre-group locos being produced as rtr,  Manufacturers have an opportunity to sell a rake of coaches that are only suitable for that loco and the sales ratio of coaches to locos will increase.

 

It will be interesting to see when the SECR bird cage coaches appear, whether their sales bear out my theory.

That certainly worked for me with Hornby Maunsell stock as I have more than one for each of my Bulleid Pacifics and I have far too many of them !

 

I can run 2,3 and 4 coach sets and add BCK or SO strengtheners without having to reform anything but I think I am relatively unusual in that. 

 

Once you start the sort of multi-layer tampo printing that pre-group liveries would demand, costs (largely driven by high reject rates) go a bit mad. Every pass through the machine is a fresh opportunity for something to go wrong. The price differential between Hornby Gresleys in teak and the same models in BR crimson or maroon illustrates the point well.

 

I am also surprised at the number of people who seem perfectly content to run random pre-group and grouping era locos in a 'preserved' scenario with BR Mk1 coaches. I'm afraid there is quite a constituency within our hobby for whom anything that isn't a locomotive only counts as 'scenery' !

 

John

[Ozexpatriate]

It is rather chicken and egg though isn't it?

No one buys pre-group coaches at £50.  Therefore no one produces any, therefore no one can buy.........

 

With the current cost of coaches approaching £50 anyway, a little extra for a lined pre-group livery may be less than a bar now than in the past.

The problem with the assumption that people won't purchase is that it is an assumption, an untested hypothesis.

 

The people who run their RTR pre-grouping locomotives would purchase small, limited formation rakes of coaches - I'd say in the two to four coach range.

 

Having said that, the greatest market opportunity for new coach tooling (in my opinion) is GWR stock. I say that not because I want them but because you simply cannot purchase new RTR GWR coaching stock. (Nor SR either for that matter.)

 

I continues to surprise me that after decades of RTR A4s in garter blue no one has come up with a Coronation/West Riding set in plastic RTR, even with a reduced formation.

 

It will be interesting to see when the SECR bird cage coaches appear, whether their sales bear out my theory.

And they won't be available in SECR livery, at least not initially.

[phil gollin]

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http://www.cargolaw.com/images/Disaster2012_Bai_Chay_Br7.jpg

 

 

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[Mike Storey]

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http://www.cargolaw.com/images/Disaster2012_Bai_Chay_Br7.jpg

 

 

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I suspect sabotage by Bachmann - the red boxes have fallen over but not the blue ones!! 

[Adams442T]

I continues to surprise me that after decades of RTR A4s in garter blue no one has come up with a Coronation/West Riding set in plastic RTR, even with a reduced formation.

 

And they won't be available in SECR livery, at least not initially.

 

I think part of the problem is that although we all (pretty much) like powerful express locomotives, the majority just don't have the space for full rakes of carriages and so I believe Hornby and others probably won't offer even reduced formations for fear of being left with 'turkeys'.

 

It's a shame I think that GWR coaches aren't available for I'm sure they would sell well.  The SECR coaches are a start, but whether I'll repaint them or wait for SECR liveries I don't know yet.  The Kernow 'Gate Stock' are likewise to be unavailable as yet in early livery, but again I might be tempted into a respray.  Nothing of course will be more guaranteed to prompt a pre-group version release!!

[nigel newling]

I have been waiting to buy a 72xx from the next production batch in green. The first batch sold out almost immediately and they very rarely come up on auction. I now note that the box shifters are already starting to report their allocations (for March 2015 delivery) as "sold out. How do Hornby calculate appropriate production run sizes? Whatever their business model contains, it is clearly insensitive to actual sales and, in my opinion, needs a serious revision as they are just turning away sales oportunities.

[Ozexpatriate]

How do Hornby calculate appropriate production run sizes? Whatever their business model contains, it is clearly insensitive to actual sales and, in my opinion, needs a serious revision as they are just turning away sales opportunities.

That's a good question. If it were a simple matter of picking a number, Hornby probably could adjust more nimbly to items that sell well.

 

They are beset with multiple problems in their supply chain. They struggle to deliver the number of units that they order - and quote that their product delivery to order ratio is at 65% for the first half of 2013/14. This means that on average they only receive 65% of what they order from the factories. They also appear to have had challenges securing production slots which may also limit the total number of models for a particular item. They appear to have tried to address production volume issues by going to a larger number of suppliers - which, reportedly, is now 15.

 

There's still a lot going in their supply chain that complicates being 'sensitive to sales'.

[Hilux5972]

I have been waiting to buy a 72xx from the next production batch in green. The first batch sold out almost immediately and they very rarely come up on auction. I now note that the box shifters are already starting to report their allocations (for March 2015 delivery) as "sold out. How do Hornby calculate appropriate production run sizes? Whatever their business model contains, it is clearly insensitive to actual sales and, in my opinion, needs a serious revision as they are just turning away sales oportunities.

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There are several on eBay at the moment of that helps