Xerces Fobe2 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 If I was to go into a betting shop, my money is on Hornby being sold in blue boxes of either of a couple of their competitors at some point in the future! XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Hornby considers closure of Margate offices and visitor centre Kent on-line: http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent-business/county-news/Hornby-could-close-kent-headquarters-27350/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 How much longer can this situation carry on and with Christmas approaching? TBH I had hoped that Hornby had sorted out so much of their supply issues. Clearly, it continues to dog them. Continuing to upset distributors and customers, bite the hand that feeds you - and folk will go else where - I've not bought a new Hornby in 18months Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Sadly I still think it is cashflow problems affecting Hornby. If they don't have the readies, the factory either won't manufacture, or if already done, will only supply those that can be paid for? I have no proof of this but more and more so it is showing signs of this. Also, there still seems to SK products being dispatched (though in limited quantities). This could be for the same reason; though it was stated earlier in the year, that agreement had been reached for a split from SK under agreed terms. Perhaps they have not kept to the agreement? Or some stock was already (perhaps partially) manufactured, and is being released. Maybe grudgingly, as they don't want to be bothered with Hornby anymore. I do now worry that my "wanted" models - J15, Claud, K1 - will sink without trace, as Hornby might just flounder or be sold. Not one to spread doom and gloom, but sadly trying to looksensibly at what seems to be happening but with no facts to hand to prove it either way. Hopefully I am wrong. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2014 Sadly I still think it is cashflow problems affecting Hornby. If they don't have the readies, the factory either won't manufacture, or if already done, will only supply those that can be paid for? I have no proof of this but more and more so it is showing signs of this. Also, there still seems to SK products being dispatched (though in limited quantities). This could be for the same reason; though it was stated earlier in the year, that agreement had been reached for a split from SK under agreed terms. Perhaps they have not kept to the agreement? Or some stock was already (perhaps partially) manufactured, and is being released. Maybe grudgingly, as they don't want to be bothered with Hornby anymore. I do now worry that my "wanted" models - J15, Claud, K1 - will sink without trace, as Hornby might just flounder or be sold. Not one to spread doom and gloom, but sadly trying to looksensibly at what seems to be happening but with no facts to hand to prove it either way. Hopefully I am wrong. Stewart The cash flow business was again something I've heard recently from the retail trade although as previously discussed on here Hornby seem to have plenty of borrowing power and the mid-year results are quite positive financially. Perhaps it is a case of how they are using what money they do have rather than not having any? But - as I said before and you have said above - we don't know and I doubt they'll ever tell us. But certainly it seem odd when deliveries are taking place of quantities which are very different from what we are told are the normal production runs and when product arrives in dribs and drabs. And all well and good saying that's how many Kader made - what would be more useful is to know how many were ordered and made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Sadly I still think it is cashflow problems affecting Hornby. I don't see any evidence of this when I assist Hornby by paying £50.00 for a concession coach from their website only to learn an outlet is letting the coaches go 2-for-one (£25.00 each) at Warley this weekend. Why is Hornby allowing this trader to do this when it undermines Hornby itself as well as those traders who cannot stock concession items. Hornby might have some tasty models in store but they are leaving a nasty taste in many other areas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Abel Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Now that Kernow, and then today Rails sent out emails (I got the Rails one personally, just had a notification not pre-order), I'm guessing it's just a matter of time before I get the same dreaded email from Hattons - this one is "dreaded" as I have Exeter on pre-order with them <sigh> and I'd like to honor that if I can, rather than race to the Hornby web site for it. If I'm not one of the "lucky ones" I may miss out on it, hopefully Hornby will still have stock by the time I find out. At least it seems like there's not necessarily been a rush from folks missing out at places they were expecting to buy from, at least not yet, since Hornby have all those items listed as short supply prominently at the web site - none listed as "only a few left"?? I wonder how long it'll be before we start seeing these limited production items on eBay at inflated prices thanks to those misery-mongers who will buy wherever they can, and speculate the living sh**it out of the items for personal gain. EDIT: Whoops - thought I'd check before I posted in error, AND SURE ENOUGH, already one out there - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BR-4-6-2-Exeter-West-Country-Class-BR-Green-R3115-/221610782588?pt=AU_Toys_Hobbies_Model_Railways&hash=item3399082f7c this from a shop in Australia even!!! Asking 150 quid, so only "a little" more than DIRECT FROM Hornby!!!! <sigh> They also have "Bittern" for about 30 quid over the odds too... aren't they "special"!!! THAT is the part of the hobby I personally get tired of. Why people can't find a more productive way of earning a crust than preying on the fact that some folks would like to own AND RUN an item is rather beyond me. If you're a "shop" have the good grace to at least only charge retail list!?!?!?!? Call me simple, but greedy people leave me very cold. Go speculate on gold or something, not my hobby items... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Exeter is listed on the Hornby website as SOLD OUT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Abel Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Exeter is listed on the Hornby website as SOLD OUT. **B**U**G**G**E**R missed that as I'd looked yesterday Oh well, it's down to me either; i) Being one of the VERY LUCKY ones and having my Hattons pre-order honored - maybe I should sell it for a million quid if I am lucky!!!! ii) Not getting the item I pre-ordered in good faith at the beginning of the year - thank you Hornby, and I hope the CEO has a flat tire on his <insert expensive car here> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Hornby considers closure of Margate offices and visitor centre Kent on-line: http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent-business/county-news/Hornby-could-close-kent-headquarters-27350/ Makes sense - the continuing spread of the Westwood Cross hell hole shopping centre and associated housing will bring a premium to the sale of the Hornby site, which should help their cash flow no end. The Visitor Centre parking and pedestrian access is a pretty poor image for the hobby, so a move to somewhere more modern, at a site with greater exposure to passers-by and their children, can only benefit. Margate sea front would be reasonable, although of course there would be far better locations elsewhere but that would create even more staff disruption, probably something they don't need right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted November 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2014 Makes sense - the continuing spread of the Westwood Cross hell hole shopping centre and associated housing will bring a premium to the sale of the Hornby site, which should help their cash flow no end. The Visitor Centre parking and pedestrian access is a pretty poor image for the hobby, so a move to somewhere more modern, at a site with greater exposure to passers-by and their children, can only benefit. Margate sea front would be reasonable, although of course there would be far better locations elsewhere but that would create even more staff disruption, probably something they don't need right now. Maybe if they moved them to China it would help them get a grip on their production issues Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted November 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2014 Last night,I could see the way the wind was blowing."Exeter" had been on order with a retailer since it was first announced way back when. I'm afraid,much against the grain I succumbed and ordered from the Hornby website.I rarely pre order models but on this occasion,I did.I have a desired place for it in my scheme of things. I have heard nothing from the retailer as yet and in the circumstances I don't expect to.In the unlikely event that I do get the option,I shall pass the info.on to the likes of Ian Abel. Had a phone call from Hornby at Margate a couple of hours ago.My online ordering address did not show up on their website,so I gave it verbally. I got no confirmatory e mail.As reported earlier,they confirmed they are having problems in that area (and a few others,too,I should think). I do havePayPal e mail,though.Exeter should be sent out towards the end of next week.I asked for a tracking number and was advised to ring in a few days,which I shall do. I was eagerly awaiting this model.I'm lucky,I suppose to get one,so I mustn't carp.But I do wish this had happened differently. I am left with an uncomfortable feeling.It's somehow taken the shine off it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Hornby considers closure of Margate offices and visitor centre Kent on-line: http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent-business/county-news/Hornby-could-close-kent-headquarters-27350/ It would make a lot of sense - Margate is a bit "remote" and a change of location may well boost the fortunes of the company. They don't manufacture there, they don't hold stock there, so there is no need to hang onto the "Triang" heritage that Margate embodies. It will be a sad day when they relocate but this could well be a positive move for Hornby in the 21st century. What it does mean that some "heritage" in the form of old moulding tools may well be finally put to rest. Those items at the back of the warehouse that were too unsafe to be moved according to the "elfs" can be safely bulldozed and carted off for scrap. Sad perhaps, but they are probably just useless distractions. I just hope that the sale of the site will improve the cashflow and thus the flow of models from China! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spet0114 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 It's somehow taken the shine off it. That's normally left to the courier who chucks it over your fence.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spet0114 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 It would make a lot of sense - Margate is a bit "remote" and a change of location may well boost the fortunes of the company. They don't manufacture there, they don't hold stock there, so there is no need to hang onto the "Triang" heritage that Margate embodies. It will be a sad day when they relocate but this could well be a positive move for Hornby in the 21st century. What it does mean that some "heritage" in the form of old moulding tools may well be finally put to rest. Those items at the back of the warehouse that were too unsafe to be moved according to the "elfs" can be safely bulldozed and carted off for scrap. Sad perhaps, but they are probably just useless distractions. I just hope that the sale of the site will improve the cashflow and thus the flow of models from China! Rather than sell the 'heritage' moulds for scrap, I'm sure Hornby could make extra money be selling them off to the collectors. I'm sure there are folk out there who'd love to own the moulds for some of the early Tri-ang models, even if they would essentially be expensive paperweights. (The above statement is made with absolutely no knowledge of how big a mould is, how heavy it is or anything like that.) Cheers Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted November 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2014 That's normally left to the courier who chucks it over your fence.... That's normally left to the courier who chucks it over your fence.... One good thing about Hornby is that they use UKMail. Normally ok in this area at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Abel Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Last night,I could see the way the wind was blowing."Exeter" had been on order with a retailer since it was first announced way back when. I'm afraid,much against the grain I succumbed and ordered from the Hornby website.I rarely pre order models but on this occasion,I did.I have a desired place for it in my scheme of things. I have heard nothing from the retailer as yet and in the circumstances I don't expect to.In the unlikely event that I do get the option,I shall pass the info.on to the likes of Ian Abel. Had a phone call from Hornby at Margate a couple of hours ago.My online ordering address did not show up on their website,so I gave it verbally. I got no confirmatory e mail.As reported earlier,they confirmed they are having problems in that area (and a few others,too,I should think). I do havePayPal e mail,though.Exeter should be sent out towards the end of next week.I asked for a tracking number and was advised to ring in a few days,which I shall do. I was eagerly awaiting this model.I'm lucky,I suppose to get one,so I mustn't carp.But I do wish this had happened differently. I am left with an uncomfortable feeling.It's somehow taken the shine off it. Ahhh, funny old thing this fate/wishing stuff is, isn't it! I was close myself to exactly what you did Ian, and honestly, I'm rather wishing I'd done the same now - I like Hattons, having shopped with them since the mid '80s and was happy to place a very early pre-order with them. Having looked breifly, due to rising doubts, yesterday afternoon, I decided to take the other path, i.e. wait and see, since it appeared at the time Hornby had stock and who knew how rapidly it'd disappear! Also, given at the time only Kernow had posted the damning report, I was still gambing on there being SOME retail stock available for folks. WIth the Rails report today it's looking bleak - all I can do now wait for an email from Hattons, good or bad. This is now way lessens my faith in the retailer(s) all of whom take good-faith pre-orders SUPPOSEDLY so the supplier can have a good handle on the interest and make at least enough to cover those <bah!!> but I think Hornby should be tarred-and-feathered for their part in this current fiasco. I'm not taken to violence but I'd sure like to kick the CEO in the nuts, as it's simply pathetic for them to be so disinterested in good customer service, especially where supplying at least what they KNOW is ordered, to their retailers - maybe Simon will read this and have a comment, Simon?? I am really confused - and of course without knowning all the whys and wherefors it's impossibly to understand correctly - but, how come some highly pre-ordered items appear to be almost non-existant, and many other locos, which frankly appear to have far less interest given there's no large pre-ordered quantity that hasn't been met, are available presumably in spades?? Seems to me the "important" criteria is what people are wanting to buy, diversity is irrelevant if there's less interest and you end up selling those less demand items 6 months later at a "fire sale"... it's not like they haven't KNOWN for about a year that the items have a large demand, there are PRE-ORDERS? Maybe they should have known/noted a long time back that the item wasn't going to appear in the quantites expected rather than simply ship the bloody things, announce they are here/available and THEN inform retailers etc., that they aren't receiveing what they ordered. I'm generally not a "Hornby basher", but this episode leaves a very bad taste... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_man Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 R3115 was originally announced as one of the 2012 releases giving Hornby almost 3 years to produce the quantity ordered by retailers. I placed my order immediately following the announcement and I was unable to order additional units as long ago as January 2013. Surely this is long enough to contract adequate production? If Hornby was short changed by their supplier, then the questions are 'why?' and 'what are Hornby going to do about it?'. As I suggested before, perhaps Hornby should arrange for the shortfall to be produced elsewhere? It is also extremely bad form for Hornby to sell off these locos on their website on a 'first come - first served' basis when retailers and their customers who had their orders in almost 3 years ago are not being supplied. I learned a long time ago it costs far less to keep a customer happy than to find a new one. Steve Model Railway Imports Canada Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Hornby halving losses however they are still £500k and they now have limited stock, so they will generate even less revenue to service an ever increasing debt! I hope that they can trade the way out of this mess, however I think a sell out or a wind up the business are the only credible options now. The selling of the current site and moving generates revenue but also has a costs as well. Sometimes a look at the past reveals some interesting similarities! "LADBROKES TROUBLED WEBSITE TIMELINE In December 2010, Ladbrokes made a £240m bid for online gaming group 888 in order to get a headstart over online rivals Sportingbet and the soon-to-be-merged PartyGaming and bwin. By August 2012, Ladbrokes had sacked its head of online strategy Richard Ames, following repeated delays to the launch of its revamped website and mobile service, which had seen more than £50m of investment in the previous two years." Source City AM Business With Personality webpage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Abel Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 R3115 was originally announced as one of the 2012 releases giving Hornby almost 3 years to produce the quantity ordered by retailers. I placed my order immediately following the announcement and I was unable to order additional units as long ago as January 2013. Surely this is long enough to contract adequate production? If Hornby was short changed by their supplier, then the questions are 'why?' and 'what are Hornby going to do about it?'. As I suggested before, perhaps Hornby should arrange for the shortfall to be produced elsewhere? It is also extremely bad form for Hornby to sell off these locos on their website on a 'first come - first served' basis when retailers and their customers who had their orders in almost 3 years ago are not being supplied. I learned a long time ago it costs far less to keep a customer happy than to find a new one. Steve Model Railway Imports Canada Steve, I posted an "Agree", but what is really needed is "I AGREE IN SPADES!!!!" I'd disagree with your politeness in saying "...extremely bad form...", you're being way too nice, it's rather simply unconscionable, and THAT more than anything is what they should address - yet there is a deafening silence, maybe someone at Warley can get a manager/director to speak up! There shouldn't have been ONE SINGLE R3115 available on their web site until ALL the retailers orders had been fulfilled, even if that meant reduced quantites but evenly distributed... to add to my earlier wishes, may the bluebird of happiness crap all over the CEOs car for a month straight Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Steve, I posted an "Agree", but what is really needed is "I AGREE IN SPADES!!!!" I'd disagree with your politeness in saying "...extremely bad form...", you're being way too nice, it's rather simply unconscionable, and THAT more than anything is what they should address - yet there is a deafening silence, maybe someone at Warley can get a manager/director to speak up! There shouldn't have been ONE SINGLE R3115 available on their web site until ALL the retailers orders had been fulfilled, even if that meant reduced quantites but evenly distributed... to add to my earlier wishes, may the bluebird of happiness crap all over the CEOs car for a month straight I am my sending my bird of paradise on the same mission! XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Plenty of Spam cans in Tesco's this afternoon !!!!!!!! Hat, coat, ------------------- Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted November 21, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 21, 2014 I am my sending my bird of paradise on the same mission! XF Watch they don't hit the flying pigs coming in the other direction Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivegreen Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I have just come into this thread this evening and, although I have no particular gripe about the delivery of 'Exeter' (it is in BR livery - I am pre-Bulleid SR!), I share the frustrations of all potential Hornby customers (because of the wait involved, 'potential' is how we have to think ourselves) given that the release date of the Drummond 700 has now been pushed out to next spring… and, frankly, I'll believe that when I see it. Moreover, I have returned to model railways after a long career break (means I had to go to work and had no time for this sort of fun!) and am really impressed with the advances Hornby have made in their quality, although the dreaded 'made in China' is sad for Europe. (Yes, I know Bachmann and many others have been doing this for decades) However, I feel the biggest PR error Hornby have made is in labelling anything, other than perhaps the very occasional special edition, as intended 'for collectors'. Sorry, Hornby: I know you no longer produce Tri-ang style children's train sets but deliberately setting out to produce 'collectables' (including, dare I suggest, deliberately short production runs?) inevitably leads to the absurd prices we see on e-bay and elsewhere (and what use are they to the Hornby finance department?) and is anathema to the mass model railway business. Our problem is that despite their evident financial problems, Hornby knows that we have little other choice for UK outline RTR models so can to a very large extent call the shots. Does this indicate a dying industry? I sincerely hope not, for Hornby's sake as well as ours. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike at C&M Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 So Hornby are informing retailers about the shortfalls in "Exeter", I await the (non-)arrival of my notification with baited breath, especially as we have no sales rep. for our area at this time What a good job RMWeb is here, so that I can pick up information that by rights should come from Margate, if they are 'man enough' to confess to their problems. Yours, one incredibly frustrated retailer! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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