Train spotting at Finsbury Square

[31A]

1 hour ago, ianblenk said:

Have some A1 frames in the loft, are they the ones with a spring to fit under the turnout? Or am I thinking about something else?

 

Cheers

 

Yes, mine came with spring actuators for Peco points but I've never actually used them!  On the previous layout the points were worked by motors, and on this one they're worked by rodding from the levers that I originally made so the A1 levers have only been used to work signals.

 

The levers are connected to cranks under the baseboard by braided fishing line.  The cranks under the baseboard include balance weights - this is the 'mechanism' for a two armed signal, although it wasn't finished when I took the picture.  Not shown are the stops either side of the long arm which limit travel and stop any stresses being passed on to the actual signal.  The fishing line is attached to the long arm via a tension spring.

 

 

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Ian

 

I think they are. Unless you have the earlier version which was made by J&M models of Maldon. I think the design was sold/given to A1 models. The prototypes for these lever frames were on a model of Maldon East that the then Maldon club made.  I used them on my layout Southbridge with success.

 

That's interesting, I didn't know the history of them, neither have I heard of anybody else using them!  They're quite nice really, well proportioned to use and very robust.  A pity they're no longer available, although I have got two more ten-lever units in store.

[St Enodoc]

11 hours ago, 31A said:

A big job for the local S&T Gang this weekend.  The points have always been controlled by a lever frame I made myself, years ago.  This had three spare levers, so these were use to control the first three semaphore signals that I made.  Then I made the home signal gantry (which carries six arms) and I put in a rather 'Heath Robinson' temporary arrangement to work this:

 

 

I'd always intended to extend the existing lever frame by making more of the same but I was beginning to realise this was getting further and further down the 'roundtuit' pile, and in the meantime more signals were appearing!

 

From a previous layout I'd got several lever frames like this:

 

 

Which at one time were sold by A1 Models of Worksop.  They're basic, but solid.  So I decided to install some of them on the current layout; a ten lever frame to the left of the existing one, and fifteen levers to the right.  I thought they'd look better painted and thought about dismantling them to do this, but in the end just squirted a matt black car paint aerosol at them, and then painted the levers red.  I must admit, now they're in position the layout controls look quite impressive, and it's always satisfying to have levers to pull!  Now I just need to make the rest of the signals ....

 

Nice. Interlocking next?

[31A]

5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Nice. Interlocking next?

 

If only that were possible!  I did work out a system in my head whereby groups of levers would be connected by cords so that only one of the group could be pulled of at a time.  But it was fiddly enough threading the cords that actually work the signals, so I suspect that idea will remain in my head.  It wouldn't have been full interlocking, anyway.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

What a stunning layout! 

[31A]

5 hours ago, Titanius Anglesmith said:

What a stunning layout! 

 

Very kind of you to say so; glad you like it!

 

[31A]

Not many of the train spotters at Finsbury Square take much notice of parcels vans, but those who do were surprised today to see not one but two ex LNER "BY" 4-wheeled brake vans arrive on a parcels train.

 

 

Some more information about it is on my "Carriage & Wagon"thread:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/54704-31a-c-w/page/3/&tab=comments#comment-3672627

 

In other news, not many trains ran at Finsbury Square over the weekend, as the engineers had possession of City Road Junction (at the entrance to the Fiddle Yard).  They were carrying out what might be known these days as "enabling works" in preparation for bigger developments in this area - more news of this soon I hope.  Luckily the work (which involved quite a bit of re-wiring) went well and everything worked properly on Monday morning!

 

 

[jwealleans]

Quote

the work (which involved quite a bit of re-wiring) went well and everything worked properly on Monday morning!

 

Hardly prototypical, then, was it?

[31A]

1 minute ago, jwealleans said:

 

Hardly prototypical, then, was it?

 

Ooooh!!  

[ianblenk]

Looking forward too 'bigger' developments, can you share?

 

[31A]

20 minutes ago, ianblenk said:

Looking forward too 'bigger' developments, can you share?

 

 

They will be 'round the corner' in an area which has been wilderness up to now, and will involve Peco Bullhead track!  I'm not much beyond the 'sketching out' stage at the moment, but there were some micro switches connected to the fiddle yard pointwork which were in the way of what's to come next, and had to be moved to the other side of the line.

 

[scottystitch]

Intriguing!

 

One of my favourite layouts, this........

[31A]

On 17/09/2019 at 08:56, ianblenk said:

Looking forward too 'bigger' developments, can you share?

 

 

OK Ian, here's another clue:

 

[Atso]

4 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

OK Ian, here's another clue:

 

 

Very nice! Please tell me that you're going to make this a working model.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Atso

[31A]

1 minute ago, Atso said:

 

Please tell me that you're going to make this a working model.

 

Um, no.  The instructions imply that you could make it work (perhaps more easily the 7mm scale version) but on mine the carriage does go up as far as the curved bits of the runners but won't go any further; I presume it's something to do with the spacing of the rods which form the rollers / wheels on it, but won't be investigating further I'm afraid .... !

[Clive Mortimore]

57 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

Um, no.  The instructions imply that you could make it work (perhaps more easily the 7mm scale version) but on mine the carriage does go up as far as the curved bits of the runners but won't go any further; I presume it's something to do with the spacing of the rods which form the rollers / wheels on it, but won't be investigating further I'm afraid .... !

Hi Steve 

 

When I cobbled together my one for Brisbane Road I was given photo copy of the etch , I was going grib from the etches and make one from plastic card. I looked at that and a lovely side on photo of the one at Kings Cross Loco ( page 46 Great British Stations, Kings Cross, 1st edition) and realised the carriage will not go to the top and tip as the runners are not quite the right shape.  I have now built two (well nearly finished number two) using the side on photo as a guide. 

 

The carriage acts as its counter balance at the moment as it is not glued to the base. 

I used the side on photo of the King Cross coal hoist to get the runners the right shape and even with my inaccurate modelling the carriage goes up and tips. Sorry about the finger of Odin. 

 

There is another reasonable photo in Top Shed by P N Townend on page 145, 2nd Edition. 

 

Mine will not be operational, too much fuss. If like me it isn't going to operational then the kit will look wonderful at Finsbury Square. I do hope you will include the shelter for the chaps unloading the coal from the wagons into the tubs. 

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I was going to hazard a guess you might be building a Finsbury Square Loco, in the style of KX 

[31A]

45 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Steve 

 

When I cobbled together my one for Brisbane Road I was given photo copy of the etch , I was going grib from the etches and make one from plastic card. I looked at that and a lovely side on photo of the one at Kings Cross Loco ( page 46 Great British Stations, Kings Cross, 1st edition) and realised the carriage will not go to the top and tip as the runners are not quite the right shape.  I have now built two (well nearly finished number two) using the side on photo as a guide. 

 

The carriage acts as its counter balance at the moment as it is not glued to the base. 

I used the side on photo of the King Cross coal hoist to get the runners the right shape and even with my inaccurate modelling the carriage goes up and tips. Sorry about the finger of Odin. 

 

There is another reasonable photo in Top Shed by P N Townend on page 145, 2nd Edition. 

 

Mine will not be operational, too much fuss. If like me it isn't going to operational then the kit will look wonderful at Finsbury Square. I do hope you will include the shelter for the chaps unloading the coal from the wagons into the tubs. 

 

Thank you Clive, that's very interesting and great to see pictures of your model!  I must admit some of the soldering has been quite fiddly (and the instructions aren't that clear in places) so at times I was thinking of making a copy of it out of my own materials!  But so far have persevered ....  Whether I'll be able to use the tiny bits for the handrail stanchions etc. remains to be seen .... 

 

The kit instructions say it was made from a scale drawing made by an enthusiast whilst waiting for trains to spot, so quite how accurate it is dimensionally I'm not sure.  Also, each of the four vertical girders is in two parts (the straight part and the curved part) and I wondered whether I might not have soldered the bits together in the right places (being not able to read the designer's mind), so that the rollers can't go round the corners.  But all it has to do is 'look the part', really!

 

These things seem to be a bit of a minefield, with each one seemingly different.  In fact there were several manufacturers involved - the one in the kit was made by Stothert & Pitt but Mitchell Conveyor Company was also involved, amongst others. The one in the kit is a model of the one at Hitchin, but that seems a bit different to the KX one.  It does look quite similar to the Frodingham one.  The Colchester one looks a bit different again!  I'd forgotten about the picture you've mentioned and it is a very useful picture.  But they are not the same - for instance the KX one picked up the tubs standing on their wheels on a platform whereas on the Hitchin one the tubs are hooked onto the lift by engaging girders on the tubs with others on the lift.  The KX one seems to have changed over the years too; the picture you mention was taken in the 1930s but there's a also good picture of it in the second edition of the same book (p167) from 1956 and by then it had either been changed a lot or was a different machine altogether - there's a lot more ironwork for example.  I haven't got the 2nd edition of Peter Townends book, unfortunately.  There was another one at Hatfield and at the moment I'm looking for a decent picture of that one.  I think I've seen a good picture of it recently but can't remember which book!

 

I'm not sure whether I'll have room for a shed for the coalmen to work in, they might just have to rough it in the rain!  Still at the planning stage, though.

[31A]

48 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

I was going to hazard a guess you might be building a Finsbury Square Loco, in the style of KX 

 

Correct!  A few yards of Peco Bullhead bought at Monk Bar Models this morning and looking forward to playing around with it.

[Clive Mortimore]

51 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

Thank you Clive, that's very interesting and great to see pictures of your model!  I must admit some of the soldering has been quite fiddly (and the instructions aren't that clear in places) so at times I was thinking of making a copy of it out of my own materials!  But so far have persevered ....  Whether I'll be able to use the tiny bits for the handrail stanchions etc. remains to be seen .... 

 

The kit instructions say it was made from a scale drawing made by an enthusiast whilst waiting for trains to spot, so quite how accurate it is dimensionally I'm not sure.  Also, each of the four vertical girders is in two parts (the straight part and the curved part) and I wondered whether I might not have soldered the bits together in the right places (being not able to read the designer's mind), so that the rollers can't go round the corners.  But all it has to do is 'look the part', really!

 

These things seem to be a bit of a minefield, with each one seemingly different.  In fact there were several manufacturers involved - the one in the kit was made by Stothert & Pitt but Mitchell Conveyor Company was also involved, amongst others. The one in the kit is a model of the one at Hitchin, but that seems a bit different to the KX one.  It does look quite similar to the Frodingham one.  The Colchester one looks a bit different again!  I'd forgotten about the picture you've mentioned and it is a very useful picture.  But they are not the same - for instance the KX one picked up the tubs standing on their wheels on a platform whereas on the Hitchin one the tubs are hooked onto the lift by engaging girders on the tubs with others on the lift.  The KX one seems to have changed over the years too; the picture you mention was taken in the 1930s but there's a also good picture of it in the second edition of the same book (p167) from 1956 and by then it had either been changed a lot or was a different machine altogether - there's a lot more ironwork for example.  I haven't got the 2nd edition of Peter Townends book, unfortunately.  There was another one at Hatfield and at the moment I'm looking for a decent picture of that one.  I think I've seen a good picture of it recently but can't remember which book!

 

I'm not sure whether I'll have room for a shed for the coalmen to work in, they might just have to rough it in the rain!  Still at the planning stage, though.

Hi Steve

 

They all differed slightly as they were installed as one offs. Hitchin and Colochester hooked the tubs and I think that was the earlier designs. The Hatfield hoist and King Cross started out the same both lifted the tubs on their wheels, Kings Cross was modified and had a permanent shoot added some time in the early fifties. The extra iron work was to support that and a platform halfway up.  It also looks like the switch gear was mounted higher up, hence the additional platform. There was no need to modify the one at Sheffield Exchange so it will look similar to the Hatfield one. There is a nice photo of Hatfield's hoist and coal shed in David Percival's Kings Cross Lineside, with a pair of class 20s in front. The M&GNJR shed at Yarmouth had one very similar to Kings Cross, I found a great photo on line of it face on with a M&GNJR 4-4-0 in front, well the tender was directly in front so I was able to scale the width by using the dimensions off a MR tender drawing.

 

Have you seen PaulG's thread on the hoist kit?

 

The hoist I built for Brisbane Road with the additional shoot like Kings Cross was given.

[ianblenk]

4 hours ago, 31A said:

 

OK Ian, here's another clue:

 

Very nice. looking forward to this, I am currently building some stock for Tynebank, will post when done.

Keep up the excellent work and posts. Always inspires me to do some modelling rather than gazing at the computer screen!

 

[Tony Wright]

6 hours ago, 31A said:

 

OK Ian, here's another clue:

 

Lovely, neat work, Steve,

 

I look forward to seeing it completed.

 

Much to my shame, I haven't really looked at your layout thread. I will do in future!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[31A]

15 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Lovely, neat work, Steve,

 

I look forward to seeing it completed.

 

Much to my shame, I haven't really looked at your layout thread. I will do in future!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Thank you, Tony!  I hope you enjoy what you see!

[31A]

1 hour ago, ianblenk said:

Very nice. looking forward to this, I am currently building some stock for Tynebank, will post when done.

Keep up the excellent work and posts. Always inspires me to do some modelling rather than gazing at the computer screen!

 

 

Thanks for the kind words, Ian!  More finger singeing fun this afternoon although no more pictures at the moment.

[31A]

2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Steve

 

They all differed slightly as they were installed as one offs. Hitchin and Colochester hooked the tubs and I think that was the earlier designs. The Hatfield hoist and King Cross started out the same both lifted the tubs on their wheels, Kings Cross was modified and had a permanent shoot added some time in the early fifties. The extra iron work was to support that and a platform halfway up.  It also looks like the switch gear was mounted higher up, hence the additional platform. There was no need to modify the one at Sheffield Exchange so it will look similar to the Hatfield one. There is a nice photo of Hatfield's hoist and coal shed in David Percival's Kings Cross Lineside, with a pair of class 20s in front. The M&GNJR shed at Yarmouth had one very similar to Kings Cross, I found a great photo on line of it face on with a M&GNJR 4-4-0 in front, well the tender was directly in front so I was able to scale the width by using the dimensions off a MR tender drawing.

 

Have you seen PaulG's thread on the hoist kit?

 

The hoist I built for Brisbane Road with the additional shoot like Kings Cross was given.

 

 

Thank you, Clive.  I looked through some more books in between burning my fingers this afternoon and found decent pictures of both the Hatfield and Hitchin ones in "Great Northern Railway Engine Sheds" Vol.1.  As you say, the Hatfield one was the same as the King's Cross one originally was.  I had seen Paul G's thread, but had forgotten about it!  Short attention span ....

 

You must have had fun with the Plastikard to make that!  It looks as though you've used N Gauge or similar track for the tubs to run on; have you put any wheels underneath the tubs?  The kit doesn't provide any and I might get some 009 wheels, or just solder some bits of rod under the floors - they don't really need to run.  Unfortunately the kit only provide one tub, so I'll probably build some more.  Seems a shame to paint your model, but have you any idea what colour they were painted?  The instructions say black and I expect they soon got black, but I'm not sure they would have been painted that colour originally.

 

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, 31A said:

 

 

Thank you, Clive.  I looked through some more books in between burning my fingers this afternoon and found decent pictures of both the Hatfield and Hitchin ones in "Great Northern Railway Engine Sheds" Vol.1.  As you say, the Hatfield one was the same as the King's Cross one originally was.  I had seen Paul G's thread, but had forgotten about it!  Short attention span ....

 

You must have had fun with the Plastikard to make that!  It looks as though you've used N Gauge or similar track for the tubs to run on; have you put any wheels underneath the tubs?  The kit doesn't provide any and I might get some 009 wheels, or just solder some bits of rod under the floors - they don't really need to run.  Unfortunately the kit only provide one tub, so I'll probably build some more.  Seems a shame to paint your model, but have you any idea what colour they were painted?  The instructions say black and I expect they soon got black, but I'm not sure they would have been painted that colour originally.

 

Hi Steve

 

Ah! GNR Engine Sheds Volume 1, guess where I had put my photocopy of the Walsworth kit instructions?

 

The fun part was remembering how I built the first model when I started the second one. The good thing making it out of plastic card is no burnt finger tips. I am using N gauge track for the yet to be built tubs. I was thinking of using N-gauge wheels for the tubs. On the other hand just disc made from plastic card might do as they will not be operational. Unless you can motorise a 1/76 geezer to push one along. We tend to forget that even with coal hoist there was still a lot of human muscle required to hump the stuff around.

 

The only colour photos I have seen of these coal hoist are ones of the one at Kings Cross Bottom Shed, and then it is always in the background. It appears black, but was that the colour it was painted or it weathered to? Paul has painted his in a green not too dissimilar to that used on station buildings and signal boxes of the LNER and later Eastern Region.