phil gollin Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 . Any idea which bogies the model had (pre- or post 1958) ? Thanks. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 By way of preparing for the worst - (Whilst hoping for the best) Has anybody manage to discover what kind of power unit or units the forthcoming 5 Bel will use...? I would really like to get a 5 Bel , but my concern is that Hornby will again drop the ball and use something that requires traction tyres... I am becoming increasingly suspicious that this is what they are intending to foist off on us, just like the 4VEP and the countless other models before that... In all probability we are a voice that is going unheard... So, then, what alternative power unit could be used to replace the power unit they do use? Is there some off the shelf solution to this that could be worked on in anticipation of this their next most probable disaster? New off the shelf wheel sets that could be utilized from some other manufacturer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted November 22, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2011 It was said backalong somewhere and credited to Simon Kohler that the motor would be in one of the brake vans but the weight of the unit would mean traction tyres would not be required. What concerns me is that a decent heavyweight can is unlikely to fit (entirely) into a brake van. Witness Bachmann's very creditable class 108 and 2EPB units which are admirably powered but have the unit partially on view. Hornby has released plenty of decently-powered locos but it is hard to see where a central motor with shaft drive to bogies might be put and not be on full view. Again I offer two Bachmann products for comparison namely the 150 and 221 both of which have a motor unit which intrudes significantly into the passenger area but which can be disguised to a large degree by the tinted windows. The Brighton Belle never had tinted windows meaning that is not a luxury afforded to Hornby. So - can anyone offer a substantiated response as yet otherwise we shall have to be patient a little longer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted November 22, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2011 It was said backalong somewhere and credited to Simon Kohler that the motor would be in one of the brake vans but the weight of the unit would mean traction tyres would not be required. What concerns me is that a decent heavyweight can is unlikely to fit (entirely) into a brake van. Witness Bachmann's very creditable class 108 and 2EPB units which are admirably powered but have the unit partially on view. Hornby has released plenty of decently-powered locos but it is hard to see where a central motor with shaft drive to bogies might be put and not be on full view. Again I offer two Bachmann products for comparison namely the 150 and 221 both of which have a motor unit which intrudes significantly into the passenger area but which can be disguised to a large degree by the tinted windows. The Brighton Belle never had tinted windows meaning that is not a luxury afforded to Hornby. So - can anyone offer a substantiated response as yet otherwise we shall have to be patient a little longer. Oh dear - could we be in for a Limby motor if it's to fit into one of the brake vans...? I do hope not. Might one way of shielding a central motor (aka Bachmann 150s) from view be to model the curtains in that area of the coach drawn? They're likely to be all in the same position if the Hawksworth coaches and VEPs are anything to go by, so would this be more acceptable? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilwell Park Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Why don't we wait and see instead of complaining about something that might, or might not, happen. Hopefully we are in for a pleasant surprise. Roger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Might one way of shielding a central motor (aka Bachmann 150s) from view be to model the curtains in that area of the coach drawn? They're likely to be all in the same position if the Hawksworth coaches and VEPs are anything to go by, so would this be more acceptable? I'd say completely unacceptable. It's priced as per other Hornby Pullman coaches, I expect coach interiors, lighting etc. I expect a solution that gives us all of that. As there is no substative structure to hide a central motor in, I 'd expect that the readily available space in the guard's area will be used, but I also expect a better solution than was implemented on the 4VEP. I'd expect Hornby also know this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted November 22, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2011 By way of preparing for the worst - (Whilst hoping for the best) Has anybody manage to discover what kind of power unit or units the forthcoming 5 Bel will use...? I would really like to get a 5 Bel , but my concern is that Hornby will again drop the ball and use something that requires traction tyres... I am becoming increasingly suspicious that this is what they are intending to foist off on us, just like the 4VEP and the countless other models before that... In all probability we are a voice that is going unheard... So, then, what alternative power unit could be used to replace the power unit they do use? Is there some off the shelf solution to this that could be worked on in anticipation of this their next most probable disaster? New off the shelf wheel sets that could be utilized from some other manufacturer? Most of the points you have raised have been covered in one of my earlier posts on this thread. As others have suggested why not wait until the model appears and then pass comment? If you still have have any concerns then do what I did - chat to Mr, Kohler at the many exhibitions he attends...Simples. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Most of the points you have raised have been covered in one of my earlier posts on this thread. As others have suggested why not wait until the model appears and then pass comment? If you still have have any concerns then do what I did - chat to Mr, Kohler at the many exhibitions he attends...Simples. Keith Thanks for the advice - however I live in Canada making it difficult to chat with Mr Kholer in person. The difficulty I have with Hornby is psychological - They seem to be tri-schizophrenic. Are they catering to the toy market en masse or producing products for discerning modellers or doing something in between? The answer seems to be all three - so it becomes impossible to accurately place their product announcements. Now a new car is always announced with a fanfare and importantly specifications, so one can gauge the relevance of the product to oneself. Dapol release the specifications for their models in advance, so why can't Hornby? But, NO! We are left in the dark and when it arrives it might well not up match the expectations generated at its announcement. So not wishing to be disappointed yet again, I try to get ahead of the curve and ask the question "Is there some way of preventing Hornby from producing an inferior the Brighton Belle?" So I like to make a lot of necessary noise (others might think unnecessary) towards that end in the hopes that The Pharoah of Hornby might weaken the business model in his heart, just this once and let his people have a decent model free from the curse of false economy and traction tyres! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Hi All, Just had a look at the pictures on Hattons website, the bogies are different on the two versions. Also the chassis looks to be a big lump of cast metal. Very promising. Cheers for now, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil-Essex Posted December 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2011 The pictures on Hattons do look good but £148 for a two car set is too expensive in my opinion. A 4 car CEP can be had for £89 and the excellent 108 & 105 DMUs are around £80. But then I do love the rake of Hornby Pullman coaches I got for Christmas, albeit for £28 each. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium gc4946 Posted December 30, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2011 Now that Hattons have posted photos of the units I'm considering buying an umber/cream version but will wait to see how things pan out regarding their motor and build quality. It's a fairly weak case for purchase ATM but the fact they were built in Birmingham (my birthplace) by Metro-Cammell and I own a N 2-6-0 and streamlined West Country in appropriate BR liveries ca. 1956 means owning one of them is a possibility. They were numbered 3051-53 in 1956 and their bogies were only modified a few years later, but did they have the insignia "Car No. XX Third Class" or simply "Car No. XX" by then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 They were numbered 3051-53 in 1956 and their bogies were only modified a few years later, but did they have the insignia "Car No. XX Third Class" or simply "Car No. XX" by then? The number change from 2051-3 to 3051-3 took place in 1937 and I believe the "Third Class" after "Car No. " was dropped at the same time. Along with many others I wish Hornby would confirm exactly what they are releasing and when with regard to options. At present there is no announcement of anything suitable for the period after 1937 until the blue/grey version, except possibly the Trailer Firsts (subject to the bogies). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium gc4946 Posted December 30, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2011 Thanks, knew they were re-numbered in 1937 I was describing how they were as such in 1956. Like the rest of us I'll wait for reviews and sightings of production models, but in order to spread the total outlay out over time I may still buy the centre trailer firsts anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted December 30, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2011 Agree with the reservations above. The announced models only represent a fairly small proportion of the working life of these sets, which is respectively too early and too late for my purposes, and after the Vep fiasco and the total silence from Margate in response to that I am not prepared to commit something in excess of £300 to a pre-order which might - and I stress might - turn out to be equally bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Ditto wot he sed! I'm waiting to see the production version before possibly committing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Nigel Burkin has posted some photos today: http://nigelburkin.wordpress.com/2012/01/25/the-brighton-lines-finest/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 The first thing that strikes me is the moulded on lamp brackets and front-end pipework... http://nigelburkin.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/5bel-2.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted January 26, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2012 It looks a lot better than the Vep. As though it has come from an entirely different manufacturer in fact. Where and what design is the motor and how well does the full unit run in each direction? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine coast Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 One major thing that no one seems to have picked up on ....is that there are no working couplings on the front bogies of the driving units to allow for a second 5 car unit to be attached ...??? Regards Trevor ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 It's good to see that the Belle has avoided the poor choice of bogies that Hornby has used on the 4VEP. The reduced friction of the pinpoint axles will even improve running should the same motor be used as in the VEP. It's not a bad idea to remove the couplers from the leading/trailing bogies. That should avoid any potential for derailing issues as per the VEP. I doubt many of us will have the space on our layouts or even in our wallets to couple two five car sets together. Those that do should be able to make the modification themselves and with something more realistic than a tension lock coupling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted January 27, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2012 Maybe there's a NEM coupler pocket under there somewhere, with the usual tension-lock in a packet in the box. If it were me, I would use Kadees to join them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Looks like the first part of the belle is out now. http://www.modelzone.co.uk/model-railways/train-packs/Hornby-brighton-belle-1967-2-car-pack-2-x-drive-mtr-brake-3rd.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltic56 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Maybe there's a NEM coupler pocket under there somewhere, with the usual tension-lock in a packet in the box. If it were me, I would use Kadees to join them. No the coupling system is designed to take current to all the coaches, so it would take major surgery to fit NEM coupling boxes to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine coast Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Looks like the first part of the belle is out now. http://www.modelzone...-brake-3rd.html Model Zone website is misleading .....Belles are not out until April ...I was assured by Hornby yesterday . Regards Trevor ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Railway Modeller March issue has a brief review of the 5 BEL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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