traffordpark Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Does anyone know if there is/was much variation in the paint used for 'yellow warning' front ends and panels on UK diesels and electrics? I have a Heljan 33 that has a very distrinctive orange look to its yellow warning panel. My Bachmann large logo 37 is a much more washed out yellow and Bachmann 57 Freightliner even more pale. I have a Hornby 08 that looks more orange at one end than the other! Is this just a case of manufacturers getting it wrong or are there significant real variations? I have seen pictures of 33s from the 80s and some do look rather more orange than we see today but this may be a trick of the camera and lighting. Futher question (not really prototype) how do we as modellers deal with it? Use harsher lighting to cancel the effect, repaint or just live with it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
csiedmo Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 A quick google image search of class 33s reveals a number of photos of the prototype with this orange tinged warning panel, and others that are definitely more yellow. Over time warning panels faded quite badly through pale yellow to a colour that was almost white, so while time spent in the sunlight and going through wash plants could be the explanation, it does appear from looking at the photos that two different shades of paint were employed, as the yellow versions look just as freshly painted as the orange ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 The yellow paintwork could get pretty faded. I did not manage many photos of Lairas class 25s, by the time I had a proper camera in 1980 they were on borrowed time, by the end of the year they had all been transferred away, many were withdrawn by the end of the year . This might explain why, in the few photos I did take, several look quite pale. 25155 at Exeter St Davids, this one was re-allocated to Springs Branch in October and withdrawn in December, 8/4/80 cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 As well as fading, don't forget the effects of general dirt/dead flies (summer)/brake dust from 4TC units (with 33/1s propelling) etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Hi all, There have been several shades of yellow used over the years. The most popular where the pre 1984, which had a bleached yellow effect and once weathered just became almost white. After 1984 BR used BS381C warning panel yellow no.202. This was more orangy than the earlier version. However saying that if you look at the large logo class 47/4's being converted at Crewe upto about 1986/7 they must have been using the pre 1984 yellow as it looks a lot light than say a Doncaster class 50! After 2002 the shade of yellow is on a designer's whim and I've found five regularly used. RAL 1003, 1004, 1018, 1021 & 1023. Back to your orangy version seems to be golden/signal yellow (BS 381C 356) which some depot repaints could have used. Hope this helps even though it is no way fully comprehensive. Regards Vin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 However saying that if you look at the large logo class 47/4's being converted at Crewe upto about 1986/7 they must have been using the pre 1984 yellow as it looks a lot light than say a Doncaster class 50! They must have had big stocks of the paint to use up. I remember that the corridor in Furlong House in Nottingham was painted warning panel yellow, presumably because it was going spare. It was a bit bright in there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 They must have had big stocks of the paint to use up. I remember that the corridor in Furlong House in Nottingham was painted warning panel yellow, presumably because it was going spare. It was a bit bright in there Although probably not as bright as the take-away repainted by the Trotters using fluorescent yellow paint 'obtained' from BR ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Back in Central Trains days there was a 156 with the panel painted in totally different shades of yellow either side of the corridor connection. I also remember reading somewhere about a depot storeman (OOC?) drawing a sum of petty cash and going to the local Woolworths for a couple of tins of primrose yellow when there was none available from central stores Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Would the Caledonian "St Rollox" effect ever lasted into BR days, with the yellow colour being a stores item and white paint being free issue? This practise is well documented as causing big variations in Caledonian Blue, with painters thinning out the stores issue (blue or yellow as the case may be) with white to eke out their supply and save them from having to go to the stores for more paint. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I have found it difficult to get a decent warning panel yellow. Talking to a paint expert at a show a good while back (possibly Ian Rathbone, apologies if not - memory failing!) who told me yellow is a notoriously difficult colour to apply anyway. Looking at my own photos and those in books, warning panel yellow seemed lighter in the early years, but changed to a deeper shade mid 80's onwards. I model British Rail 1985 to 1995 and have found that Humbrol Enamel No. 69 Yellow mixed with a very small dash of No. 18 Orange looks OK - this is an old Lima 101 the front of which I brush painted some time ago to cover the Lima yellow plastic moulding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted June 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 16, 2015 After seeing a close-up pic on an RMWeb thread, I was amused/bemused to find out that even though Network Rail locos are bright yellow all over, the ends were still painted in warning panel yellow! (a slightly, but noticeably, more orange shade than the body) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 There's quite a bit of variation across the FGW HST fleet at present - there seem to be two distinct versions: a warm slightly orangey yellow and a paler lemony yellow. Maybe the latter is simply a washed-out version of the former? Perhaps the Modfather can confirm from his privileged position inside St Philips Marsh? The difference in shades was very noticeable at Didcot this morning with the 07:06, 07:08 and 07:10 departures grouped together in platforms 5, 3 and 4 respectively, but (per the OP's comments) the warning panels all looked in good nick and fairly recently applied - apologies for not recording any power car numbers, as I was distracted by the claggiest 66 that I've ever seen...... David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 08E51 is the warning yellow used on NR yellow locos painted at Eastleigh. The sides are a very very slightly different yellow.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted June 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2015 2 shades current warning panel yeollow is known as spec (81/202 yellow) however Locos repainted in the 1970s had a shade known as "goldcup" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 In answer to the final line of the OP - I tend to just live with various shades that are near enough and weather slightly if I need to darken. I'd only repaint as a last resort if the manufacturers colour was wildly wrong (some Hornby 86's with lemon yellow spring to mind and early Lima yellow plastic moulds which were the right colour but always looked very plastic and very flat!). As DavidB says about his observations this morning, shades vary anyway. Same applies to different shades of Rail Blue. Light weathering really helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted June 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 16, 2015 08E51 is the warning yellow used on NR yellow locos painted at Eastleigh. The sides are a very very slightly different yellow.. NR yellow....... I think the official description is Network Sunshine Yellow. However, they did once run out of it at RVEL Derby and used some "normal" safety yellow on some Mk2's and I think a couple of NMT Mk3's As already remarked above, yellow is a notoriously difficult colour to represent as the pigment is quite thin and very susceptible to weathering. The colour of the undercoat has an effect and also depends who and where it was painted - the NR yellow 97/3 fleet is a good example of variation when compared to other yellow coaches. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
modfather Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 There's quite a bit of variation across the FGW HST fleet at present - there seem to be two distinct versions: a warm slightly orangey yellow and a paler lemony yellow. Maybe the latter is simply a washed-out version of the former? Perhaps the Modfather can confirm from his privileged position inside St Philips Marsh? The difference in shades was very noticeable at Didcot this morning with the 07:06, 07:08 and 07:10 departures grouped together in platforms 5, 3 and 4 respectively, but (per the OP's comments) the warning panels all looked in good nick and fairly recently applied - apologies for not recording any power car numbers, as I was distracted by the claggiest 66 that I've ever seen...... David I know the west fleet that we are repainting is done with a standard williamsons warning yellow. We have used grey, yellow and no undercoat which has changed the shade a little. I can only imagine that the oak, laira and works are all using locally sourced paint that is degrading at different rates. I'll have a closer look though. The shade seems to change under different lighting conditions too... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
traffordpark Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Many thanks for the responses - I guessed the specs may have changed at times and its really useful to get confirmation. Yes, I wondered if undercoats or paint preparation made a big difference. I also wondered if the speed of the repainting in the late 60s/early 70s into BR blue may have affected paint preparation. I suppose if there was only a partial stripping job or just a simple overspray then that may have had the effect of darkening the look of the yellow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted June 17, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2015 Many thanks for the responses - I guessed the specs may have changed at times and its really useful to get confirmation. Yes, I wondered if undercoats or paint preparation made a big difference. I also wondered if the speed of the repainting in the late 60s/early 70s into BR blue may have affected paint preparation. I suppose if there was only a partial stripping job or just a simple overspray then that may have had the effect of darkening the look of the yellow. Should've mentioned that the Freightliner locos use their own FL yellow - very pale when compared to the usual "more orangey" yellow Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted June 17, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2015 and then theres 70801 which has different yellow ends to the rest of the fleet the reason being it was painted in the uk, the rest in the factory in the usa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I have a photo of a 31 with day glow orange ends, think they where testing it out at the time, will have to dig it out . Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianusa Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Never liked yellow ends but wasn't there mention of their demise recently? They seem to be getting smaller in the more modern HSTs from Hitachi et al anyway. Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted June 18, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 18, 2015 Never liked yellow ends but wasn't there mention of their demise recently? They seem to be getting smaller in the more modern HSTs from Hitachi et al anyway. Brian. The current railway group standard is down to a minimum area of 1m2. See Section C1 of the RGS online it gives acceptable colours and dimensions. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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