Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[JohnBateson]

The new etch overlay will be in the post tomorrow - there are two of them just in case🙂 make sure you get it the right way up!🙃

Just in time I remembered to use the old mesurements for the buffer mounts (on later designs I had eased them a little for the fixing boltsof 0.45 mm NiSi wire), These holes are lightly marked on the rear of the etch should you wish to model the fixing bolts.

 

 

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

John,

 

Many thanks for the new front buffer beam etch. I've parted them and dressed off the cusp and then given them a polish with the fibre brush.

 

I did intend to use Arthur Kimber's brass castings for the LNER group standard buffers, on the locomotive and these do have the four corner bolts modelled on the casting. Looking more closely at the photo below, I'm not sure that the tender buffers are LNER group standard; they could be the original Great Central ones.

 

Different buffers, loco and tender, does sound unlikely but I have various photos which do show these types of anomalies; not least an A7 with one round and one oval buffer head on the front buffer beam or an A6 with oval buffers on the front and round ones on the rear. Even more odd, a photo of a G5, on a train, with only one front buffer head.

 

Now to complete the loco body detailing and the tender. Earlier in this thread there is a photo of 1482 taken in Ardsley shed c1949; three quarter view but from the rear, so I've reposted this photo below. This shows that the rear tender buffer beam did not have the profusion of rivets (or any rivets) which the front one had but there is additional 'plating' around the coupling hook slot in the buffer beam.

 

So if I build another B4, then I'll have at least the front buffer beam overlay, as a starter!

 

Once again, many thanks for providing this.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by mikemeg

[65179]

16 hours ago, mikemeg said:

John,

 

Many thanks for the new front buffer beam etch. I've parted them and dressed off the cusp and then given them a polish with the fibre brush.

 

I did intend to use Arthur Kimber's brass castings for the LNER group standard buffers, on the locomotive and these do have the four corner bolts modelled on the casting. Looking more closely at the photo below, I'm not sure that the tender buffers are LNER group standard; they could be the original Great Central ones.

 

Different buffers, loco and tender, does sound unlikely but I have various photos which do show these types of anomalies; not least an A7 with one round and one oval buffer head on the front buffer beam or an A6 with oval buffers on the front and round ones on the rear. Even more odd, a photo of a G5, on a train, with only one front buffer head.

 

Now to complete the loco body detailing and the tender. Earlier in this thread there is a photo of 1482 taken in Ardsley shed c1949; three quarter view but from the rear, so I've reposted this photo below. This shows that the rear tender buffer beam did not have the profusion of rivets (or any rivets) which the front one had but there is additional 'plating' around the coupling hook slot in the buffer beam.

 

So if I build another B4, then I'll have at least the front buffer beam overlay, as a starter!

 

Once again, many thanks for providing this.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

 

Different buffers front and rear is pretty common on GC types Mike. The tender and loco weren't overhauled together so it isn't that surprising.  There are several sorts of GC buffer as well as the LNER group standard ones too. The GC ones shown in your photo, packed at the rear, and the plain straight shank equivalent are possibly the most common.

 

Regards,

 

Simon

 

 

[mikemeg]

On 26/07/2023 at 09:36, 65179 said:

 

Different buffers front and rear is pretty common on GC types Mike. The tender and loco weren't overhauled together so it isn't that surprising.  There are several sorts of GC buffer as well as the LNER group standard ones too. The GC ones shown in your photo, packed at the rear, and the plain straight shank equivalent are possibly the most common.

 

Regards,

 

Simon

 

 

 

Simon,

 

Many thanks for the posting which certainly confirms that this loco, in common with many other ex GC locos, could have carried different buffer types front and rear. Your posting also explains why the buffer beams on the loco front and tender rear are also different.

 

Progress on this loco and its tender is now restarted and proceeding. I did use the last few weeks to do some maintenance jobs on the loco fleet, wheel cleaning, pick up adjustments, etc.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

Since my last posting, which was a few weeks ago,  I have completed the tender underframe and am well on with the tender superstructure.

 

However, I have returned to the loco superstructure to make a modification to the kit. The design of the mainframes follows prototype practice in that they protrude above the running plate around the smokebox. This makes the join between the front footplate section and the smokebox front somewhat fragile but also to fit the loco body to the chassis entails the running plate passing over some embossed rivets in the upper portion of the mainframes, which is gradually 'grinding down' those embossed rivets.

 

To avoid this and to strengthen the front end of the loco body, I have separated the protruding portions of the mainframes from the lower sections. These can now be soldered to the bottom of the smokebox sides, flush with the running plate, thus allowing the chassis and body to be separated much more easily.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by mikemeg

[JohnBateson]

Mike, Would you care for a scoop (there is a made-up one in the picture to show what it looks like

[mikemeg]

Hi John,

 

Apologies for the delayed reply; been away doing various things. Not least a visit to Malvern in Worcestershire to go around the Morgan factory and thence on to the Cotswolds.

 

In answer to your question, above, yes; I would love to add one of these water scoops to the tender model.

 

With the glorious weather of the last few days and taking the opportunity to visit various parts of this country, while I still can, then progress on the B4 has slowed though I'm probably only a week or two from completion.

 

So many thanks for the offer and yes please.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

[JohnBateson]

Its on the way - it requires two small slots or a lump of solder after filigng off the two tabs.

Just put a length of 0.45 NiSi or brass in the centre hole to represent the pivot axle!

[mikemeg]

While I finish off the B4, here's a picture of another one about to enter the paint shop, after the  brake gear and some piping is added. This is the fourth (and very definitely the last) A6 tank, which I have built. This one will be 69798 late - 1950 - of Hull Botanic Gardens shed and will be finished as per the photo below; early British Railways unlined black with the legend spelled out in full. The prototype photo is, as almost always, courtesy Mick Nicholson's collection

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER J72 CHASSIS

 

One of the habits I try and avoid is that of breaking off from one project, part way through, to start another. While by no means an immutable rule, it is nonetheless something I try to avoid. However, I have just contradicted that rule, though only quite briefly, but then - according to the time honoured homily - 'A  change is as good as a rest!

 

Now, quite a few years ago I built a couple of High Level Models J72 chassis' to be used with the Bachmann J72 bodies; the older version. While both of these builds were ok, the first one was very definitely not up to the standard of later builds; the chassis compensation was too stiff leading to pick up problems and the inside motion was poorly assembled. Anyway, having finished these two J72 conversions, I resolved, one day, to re-do the first such build/conversion with a completely new chassis, though retaining the wheels, motor, etc. and using the High Level Models chassis kit once again.

 

Incidentally, the price of this kit, which includes nickel silver etches, hornguides and axleboxes, top hat bearings, gearbox etches and gears, has changed very little since I bought the first two, over eight years ago, and does offer great value. Usual disclaimer; just a very satisfied customer. 

 

Having built the inside motion on the B4, and while the mojo for tackling these very intricate motions remained strong, I decided to interrupt the B4, for a week or so, to build another chassis for the first of the Bachmann J72 bodies. This time taking very great care to get the soldering of multiple layer components right and to  ensure that everything was totally square on this build.

 

Anyway, after three days I have reached the stage shown in the photo below, with the brakes and brake linkage and one or two other details still to do. This time, those axleboxes will move under their own weight, so the pick up problems should be eliminated.  Also, the representation of the inside motion has been assembled with much greater care and the benefit of having built some thirty five locos in the intervening period. We all live and learn!!

 

So, I should be back finishing the B4 by the end of the week and the J72 conversion should also be re-completed.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER J72 Chassis

 

Just as an appendix to the previous posting; the very first postings, on this thread, posted on July 10th, 2015 dealt with the building of the High Level Models J72 chassis, first time around. Though the photographs, originally posted to accompany these postings, have long since disappeared, owing to issues when RMWeb updated and then changed their hosting supplier; believe it or not, I still have all of those photographs in my photo files.

 

Thus I have started the job of replacing some of those lost photos in the very first few postings of this thread. Being a confirmed 'photo hoarder' does have its advantages - eventually!!

 

The first one done was 68724 with 69003 being the second build of the chassis kit. Both locos were shedded at Hull Alexandra Dock during the late 1940's and 1950's. The photo, below, was taken in 2015. Worth adding that when these two conversions were originally done, I did also do a considerable amount of updating of the loco superstructures, utilising many of Arthur Kimber's castings and small etches.

 

Also worth mentioning that since these two conversions were done Arthur Kimber (North Eastern Kits) has developed and produced kits for both the short bunker (first twenty locos) version and the long bunker (all remaining locos) version of the J72 both of which I test built.

 

So, yes, I have four J72's.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by mikemeg

[rowanj]

I remember you posting these, Mike, and then following your thread, which has inspired me in my own efforts over the susequent years. Many a tip from you has been borrowed/stolen, and we have had a couple of great chats. 

John

[mikemeg]

15 hours ago, rowanj said:

I remember you posting these, Mike, and then following your thread, which has inspired me in my own efforts over the susequent years. Many a tip from you has been borrowed/stolen, and we have had a couple of great chats. 

John

 

Many thanks John.

 

Equally, your own thread has also long been a 'must read' for me as you build and assemble a wonderful collection of models of the old North Eastern.

 

Very best regards

 

Mike

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER J72 Chassis

 

Repeating the build of something which I first built quite a few years ago does provide for some interesting reflections, especially in the almost unconscious acquisition of technique and approach. On this chassis, there are a number of quite intricate parts and assemblies. On the first build, over eight years ago, there were a few times when I thought, dauntingly 'You must be bl---y joking; that's barely possible'. These thoughts were especially prevalent when attempting to assemble the valve motion, the brake linkage and forming and assembling the rear brake cylinder and piping.

 

This time around those same parts and assemblies were not at all daunting and were put together without any difficulty. It never occurred, this time, that these assemblies would pose any difficulties and indeed, they didn't. I guess that's what age and experience does, though as yet, despite my advancing years, the deteriorating effects of age haven't yet made themselves apparent - touch wood or, perhaps, nickel silver!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

Here's a query which someone might be able to help me with. When I attach two or more photos using the attach option, they appear as a contiguous photo entry with no space between them. Now there is obviously a way of interspersing posted photos with text, both as descriptors of particular photos and as a means of delineating a succession of photos; but how is this done?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by mikemeg

[rowanj]

Hi Mike,

Do all the following BEFORE you post to your thread.

Press ENTER a couple of times after the text that you want the photo to refer to- this gives 2 empty lines after the text,

Select an empty line and click the cursor.You should see the position at the start of the line as a flashing cursor.

You need to have selected the relevant photo, which will be at the bottom of your post, Look for it. then click where it says Insert,

 

This will put the photo where you want it, eg, between lines of text. Basically Insert will put the photo where you clicked on the cursor.

I have just put a post on my kitbuilding thread to show the effect I am trying to describe, Hope this helps

[mikemeg]

John,

 

Many thanks for the post, above. I had never noticed the insert option which appears when a photo, already attached, is clicked on prior to submitting (initial post) or saving (subsequent editing) of the posting. My posting, immediately prior to yours above and which occasioned the request, has now been edited using the method you described in your posting. This has achieved the required separation of the two images. 

 

Many thanks for that.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER J72 Chassis

 

Lastly, comes the assembly of the brake linkage. The single etched sheet of nickel silver, containing all of the etched parts in the kit, is organised such that the etching of the brake linkage components also contains a jig for assembling the brake linkage. This jig, is designed to allow the assembly of the brake linkage in any of the three gauges for which the kit is designed - 'OO', EM or P4, with triplicated parts for all gauge dependant sections of the linkage.

 

Thus, the main brake linkage stretchers are left in place on the etched sheet and are therefore automatically spaced to fit the wheelbase of the loco. The long piece of brass rod (0.5 mm) is, again, positioned using the jig and allows the correct positioning and orientation of the brake adjuster, after which the brass rod can be withdrawn. A very clever piece of kit design which does make the assembly of this section of the kit very much easier.

 

However, adding the tiny pieces of 0.5 mm rod, to represent the bolts in the linkage shackles, is still going to try the patience just a tad! 

 

I'm still just inside my week off from the B4 build, but only just!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by mikemeg

[JaymzHatstand]

That's some really good design, and some very skilled assembly of it (all!)

 

The J72 chassis is something I've been toying with the idea of for a while, one of these days, I'll actually get one! Though with three of the current Bachmann E1/J72s in my fleet, and a Kimber E, I'm not doing too badly for NE shunting locos! Nowhere near your collection mind!

 

Is there much space in the chassis for pickups, or has that been designed in too. It's always the one place I seem to stumble over with chassis construction, especially when compensation is present as I can never make reliable contacts, so a smooth rolling chassis without a motor suddenly becomes a kangaroo when wired up!

 

Cheers

 

J

[mikemeg]

LNER J72 Chassis

 

With the addition of all of the brake shackle bolts - about ten in all - then the brake linkage is now ready to be separated from the jig. Someone did ask me how I solder things which are so close together without loosening adjacent components which have already been soldered. The simple answer is that the soldering iron I use has a pointed bit i.e. like an elongated sharpened pencil, By that means the solder can be applied to very small areas and can be applied very quickly. That said, when soldering in these shackle bolts, I did clamp those already soldered to prevent the solder from melting and the piece falling out.

 

I guess the whole process of adding the shackle bolts, including cleaning up the soldered joints,  took around an hour.

 

As an addendum, all of the straight pieces of nickel silver strip which which surround the etched parts - i.e. the end strips of the jig below - will be recovered, separated and then stored for future use and you'd be surprised how useful this can be.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by mikemeg

[Mad McCann]

22 hours ago, mikemeg said:

LNER J72 Chassis

 

Lastly, comes the assembly of the brake linkage. The single etched sheet of nickel silver, containing all of the etched parts in the kit, is organised such that the etching of the brake linkage components also contains a jig for assembling the brake linkage. This jig, is designed to allow the assembly of the brake linkage in any of the three gauges for which the kit is designed - 'OO', EM or P4, with triplicated parts for all gauge dependant sections of the linkage.

 

Thus, the main brake linkage stretchers are left in place on the etched sheet and are therefore automatically spaced to fit the wheelbase of the loco. The long piece of brass rod (0.5 mm) is, again, positioned using the jig and allows the correct positioning and orientation of the brake adjuster, after which the brass rod can be withdrawn. A very clever piece of kit design which does make the assembly of this section of the kit very much easier.

 

However, adding the tiny pieces of 0.5 mm rod, to represent the bolts in the linkage shackles, is still going to try the patience just a tad! 

 

I'm still just inside my week off from the B4 build, but only just!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Mike. I hadn't realised that Chris had arranged the etch so that the stretchers were already set at the correct wheelbase spacing.

The man is an utter genius! 🙂

 

I have a spare Bachmann body and I'm now inclined to build one of these chassis just to get some use from it. Must be seven or eight years since I built a chassis!

 

Nice work.

 

 

Davy 

[mikemeg]

8 hours ago, Mad McCann said:

 

 

Mike. I hadn't realised that Chris had arranged the etch so that the stretchers were already set at the correct wheelbase spacing.

The man is an utter genius! 🙂

 

I have a spare Bachmann body and I'm now inclined to build one of these chassis just to get some use from it. Must be seven or eight years since I built a chassis!

 

Nice work.

 

 

Davy 

 

Davy,

 

Yes indeed, that is exactly how Chris arranged the etch and for all of the three gauges - 'OO', EM and P4. Chris has also supplied alternative gauged parts for the cylinder fronts and rears and the motion plate, so that none of the detail is lost for EM or OO; just narrowed.

 

Not only that but the lining up of the brake shaft and actuator, so that the brake linkage matches the actuating linkage is also facilitated. Now you can see why I'm such a fan of High Level's products. They do need some very careful work but they produce a wonderful end result!!

 

Anyway, the handbrake and steam brake actuators have been assembled - photo 1 below - and fitted onto the brake shaft which has then been fixed within the journals at the rear of the mainframes.

 

The brake linkage has been separated prior to fitting to the brakes - photo 2 below.

 

And the brake hangars and shoes, with their fixing bolts have all been assembled and are ready for fitting to the brake hangar shafts - photo 3 below.

 

So now a few locating holes in the mainframes need filling and dressing off and then just the final assembly, then priming, painting and weathering. The coupling rods from the first build are being re-used and it was those which were used to set up the chassis jig.

 

Then it is back to the B4, reinvigorated and refreshed!! 

 

Oh and John (Rowan) on this posting I've managed to space and separate the photos, so thanks again for the tips.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER J72 Chassis

 

So the guard irons have been fitted and then everything assembled and fits together without any problems. Care must be taken to ensure that the wheels will pass the brake shoes, otherwise wheeling the chassis will be a problem.  Sand pipes, front and rear can be added after the chassis is painted and wheeled, as there are holes to position and fix those pipes.

 

One last photo with the shiny nickel silver before I bury the shine beneath a coat of grey primer and then paint it, prior to fitting the wheels, motor and gearbox and electrical pick ups, which should be done tomorrow.

 

So pretty well there on this, in the week off from the B4.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER J72 Chassis

 

The new chassis has been primed, painted, wheeled and powered up and all seems ok. While I was in a replacing/repairing mood, I decided to remake both sets of front footplate steps, so that has also been done. The original steps are very thick and even though the backs were thinned, there was very little clearance for the coupling rods with P4 gauge wheels. The new steps have a much thinner upstand, so clearance is now no problem.

 

Still some painting of the new components to be done and a little more weathering of the chassis and wheels but it's just about there. The sandpipes also need to be made and fitted.

 

So now, 68724 can go to 'The Shunt Ball'!! 

 

Actually eight days from the off, one day more than the week  I had planned.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER J72 Chassis

 

The instruction set for this chassis kit does include various arrangement drawings including the profile and positioning of the front and rear sand pipes. So these pipes have been bent up from 0.4 mm wire and fixed into the chassis.

 

On the last photo I noticed a tiny gap between the rear of the cab side sheet and the cab roof, which has now been filled.

 

So apart from painting the sand pipes and a little more work on the weathering, that's about it for this build or rebuild.

 

So for anyone with a spare Bachmann J72 body, with this kit and a few other additions, it can be made into a scale model. 

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by mikemeg