Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

The boiler has now been rolled and seam soldered. The front and rear boiler formers have then been soldered into the rolled boiler wrapper. Just sitting the part completed boiler assembly onto the footplate/firebox/cab assembly and this really does begin to resemble a locomotive.

 

I haven't yet fitted the valances nor the rear footsteps or removed the front footplate support and will wait to do this until all of the heavy work on the loco superstructure is completed. At last I'm now making progress at something like the usual pace!! And I did spend a couple of minutes shining up the assembled boiler!

 

I know I've said this before, as have many other contributors, but these late nineteenth / early twentieth century locomotive designs - of almost all of the pre-grouping companies - were just very handsome things; perfectly balanced and uncluttered.

 

What a 'double header' this will make with an ex-NER S2 / LNER B15; the second photo below!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

The inner smokebox wrapper has now been rolled and the smokebox former folded up. Using the top handrail stanchion hole and a hole in the wrapper to align the wrapper on the former, this was then soldered to the former leaving the lower part of the smokebox unsoldered. The front of the boiler was then inserted into the smokebox and aligned, again using a hole in the top of the front of the boiler wrapper and a corresponding hole in the rear of the top of the smokebox. A hole which will be later opened up to accept the snifting valve.

 

Finally the bottom of the smokebox wrapper was clamped tight around the boiler and soldered up. Next step is to fit one of the two external smokebox wrappers supplied; one flush riveted, one pop rivetted. As this model is intended to portray the prototype in its final year (1950) then the pop rivetted wrapper will be used.

 

The piece in front of the front splashers, which appears to support the boiler, is a temporary support piece which will be removed once the footplate is fully completed.

 

My query as to how much space is available within the firebox and the cut away section of the boiler bottom is now answered. There is some 34 mm within the firebox and a further 11.5 mm within the boiler, so 45.5mm to accept the gearbox and motor.

 

If the model looks a little 'truncated' at the front end, there is still a curved section of footplate to add plus the front buffer beam and its furniture, which will restore the aesthetics to what they should look like.

 

After some weeks of adding 'micro' bits and pieces, it's good to be adding the 'macro' bits and pieces; much easier to see them!! And yes, the smokebox has also been 'bulled up' for the photo.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

Here's another 'dodge' which might prove useful for model loco builders. Now conventional wisdom says that you should not put anything through the rollers which has embossed rivet detail and, of course, conventional wisdom is correct as the rollers will flatten out that embossed detail.

 

Correct that is, unless the rollers can be prevented from actually coming into contact with the embossed detail. Cue a piece of fairly thick card but flexible enough to curve easily - I use card around 0.030" thick - cut wider and longer than the piece to be rolled.

 

The piece to be rolled is simply placed with the embossed detail facing the card and then  both card and piece are put through the rollers as many times as necessary. As the brass embossed detail is far harder than the card, it simply buries itself in the card.

 

The piece in the photo - outer wrapper for the B4 smokebox - was rolled six times, reducing the radius with each roll.

 

There you go; piece rolled with all embossed detail preserved untouched!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by mikemeg

[Mike Megginson]

LNER B4

 

Having fitted the outer wrapper to the smokebox, now time for another of those acid tests. The bottom of the smokebox is designed to sit inside the top of the mainframes on the smokebox base, which is part of the chassis. If the bottom of the smokebox is too wide, or out of line then this matching will not be possible and some rectification will be necessary.

 

Similarly, if the smokebox bottom is too narrow, then gaps between the smokebox sides and the mainframes will be clearly visible.

 

With just a little judicious filing at the bottom of the smokebox, the fit is achieved and achieved such that the whole smokebox/boiler assembly will stand, unsupported, parallel to the footplate. Phew; that was lucky for it does.

 

Anyone wondering why two authors of this thread appear to contribute, the answer is they/we are one and the same person. I use two systems to access RMWeb and, for some reason, couldn't use the same username on both?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Mike Megginson

[Mike Megginson]

LNER B4

 

The bracing strip, which supported and spaced the two sides of the footplate has now been removed allowing the locomotive superstructure to be checked for alignment against the chassis. All seems to match and to mate up correctly, so we can proceed with fitting the valances and completing the front footplate.

 

There really is something very satisfying in seeing these brass/nickel silver kits shining and reflecting in the illumination of the daylight lamp!!

 

It has taken quite a while to get to here with a combination of new and different kit design approaches, at least for me as the builder, and the increasing demands of the garden. Now it really does begin to look like a Great Central 4-6-0 and I am greatly encouraged to push on to completion. Now I can add the valances and the front of the footplate.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Mike Megginson

[Mike Megginson]

LNER B4

 

Now for another of those processes which can make or mar the model; adding the valances. On this loco the valances were very deep and followed the shape of the footplate, which widened just aft of the cylinders. I have to confess that I did add some 'guide' pieces to the underside of the footplate, using 1.0 mm x .015" nickel silver strip. These were positioned and soldered around 0.75 mm from the edge of the footplate along much of its length. This strip is obviously invisible from any normal viewing angle, unless the loco 'turns turtle'.

 

Anyway, starting at the cab end, each valance was very carefully soldered along its full length, ensuring that at no time was any unsoldered section soldered between already soldered sections as the heating up and expansion of the unsoldered section will cause it to buckle. So the soldering must be done absolutely progressively to avoid this buckling.

 

Anyway the two valances were soldered successfully and then cleaned up for the photograph, which is posted below. I also slightly adjusted the upper slide bar on the visible side in the photo, as this slide bar was clearly diverging from parallel with the lower bar.

 

Lots of flowing curves on the model now, with more to add.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

,

Edited April 28, 2023 by Mike Megginson

[mikemeg]

My thanks to those contributors who pointed out that the last few postings were made by Mike Megginson, not mikemeg; even though we share the same being. This was due to my changing browser and using a different system, temporarily, to post to the thread.

 

Anyway, I'm now back as mikemeg and the 'interloper' is banished, at least for now. Both of the systems which I use to access this website now know that I am mikemeg!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

The boiler has now had a coil of sheet lead fitted inside it, which adds around 6 ounces to the overall weight of the loco. The boiler and firebox were then soldered together, ensuring that the positioning remained compatible with the smokebox sitting between the upper portions of the mainframes.

 

On the front footplate I have departed from the instructions by removing the piano valve cover from the front footplate, which has then been fitted to the main footplate sections. A separate, scratch built valve cover will be added next, to complete the basic loco superstructure.

 

The kit provides the option of fitting the front buffer beam to the mainframes or to the front footplate section. I'm still unsure as to which will be the best option. Fitting the buffer beam to the front of the mainframes will probably be the sturdier option, as long as there is no gap between the top of the buffer beam and the front footplate. Otherwise, if the buffer beam is fitted to the front footplate then some strengthening of the join may be necessary.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by mikemeg

[Chas Levin]

Nice job Mike, looks immaculate!

[mikemeg]

21 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Nice job Mike, looks immaculate!

 

Thanks Chas

 

I have to say that this one has taken somewhat longer than it should have done. This is due to my being very cautious with this one; not wanting to rush and mess up and also due to doing other things totally unconnected to making models.

 

Anyway, I'm now well on the way to completion.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

[JohnBateson]

Mike,

A couple of things.

• Boiler hand rail knobs. The front one will need adjusting to the rear. From the front of the fire box these are 4' 4.75" (which is correct on the etch) and 10' 8.875" (which you may wish to correct). Simply done, fill the hole with a brass pin and drill a new hole in the correct position.
• Boiler bands. These are all but invisible, and no indication on the drawings I have or the GA. Basically one at each end (which hides the join) one centered on the dome and two more equidistant from the dome to the ends. On later designs I included 1/2 etch (2" equivalent) for these but they are, I feel, too intrusive. I go with the old Alan Gibson solution of very thin 2" (0.67 mm) sellotape strip and then spray the undercoat on top. On these engines I feel these bands were decorative not functional.
• Thirdly, on the drawing for the 8F/B4 you can see a 14XX motor and HiLevel gear box. You wondered recently whether one would fit. You will note that the cab design is such that there is spce there as the fire box intrudes into the cab by about 12" - this is a separate part on your etch.
• And lastly, I note that on the chassis where the brake axle is fitted you have the square supports fitted (see picture). In theory, P4 wheels should not touch these provided the axle slot is accurate but EM wheels will cause a problem. It all depends on the amount of sideplay you are building in. These can be put on the inside of the frames if needed and is probably where they were anyway!

JB

Edited May 10, 2023 by JohnBateson

[mikemeg]

John,

 

Many thanks for the additional information. The handrail knob locations are relatively easy to alter. On all of the models I have built, I never solder the handrail knobs in place, I prefer to glue them in place. I always position them using a piece of handrail wire which is progressively threaded onto the knobs in place, front to back, so that each successive one fitted can be adjusted so as not to divert the handrail from straight.

 

Using glue, albeit relatively quick setting, does allow for the final slight adjustments to be made to achieve that uniformity of height and orientation, using the positioning piece of handrail wire. Obviously, the first one fitted - usually the smokebox knob - relies, solely, on the piece of handrail wire being truly horizontal. Once all of the handrail knobs are fitted, then the trial piece is discarded and the final one piece handrail is shaped and fitted.

 

For boiler bands, Arthur has produced a nickel silver etch of these with .005" (scale 3/8") sheet. These can be further thinned to around .002" to .003" (scale 0.15" to 0.225") however they are 'thickened', by the thickness of the layer of solder, when soldering them to the boiler. On this model, I shall certainly use the Alan Gibson sellotape solution.

 

I have fitted the firebox portion, which protrudes into the cab, which was included in my measurements to ascertain just how much longitudinal space was available for the gearbox/motor (c 45 mm), so my target is to fit a Mashima 1428, as shown in your diagram.

 

Once again many thanks both for your interest and for the information which you have provided throughout this build;  please keep it coming.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

While getting to the current state of this model, I have omitted some parts of the assembly, intent on coming back to these parts at a later stage. One such assembly is the two cab footsteps, which I deliberately left off until the bulk of the 'heavy work' on the locomotive superstructure was completed. So with the addition of the piano valve cover, the heavy stuff is complete so I can now do the detailing jobs.

 

The two cab cupboards / seats were assembled some time ago but can now be trial fitted into the cab, though they are not yet soldered to the cab floor. The drag beam has also been assembled and fitted with its buffers. Here again I departed from the instructions! The two rear buffers have shanks around 0.8 mm diameter which engage with holes in the drag beam. This seemed a little flimsy, so I fitted each shank of the two buffers into lengths of 1/16" brass tube around 5 mm  long, which was then soldered into the drag beam, flush with the backing plates, so that none of this tube is visible. This provides a much better base for these buffers.

 

With the drag beam, I opted to solder it to the mainframes, using tiny lugs which are provided on the end of each mainframe. This soldered joint was then extended to solder the  bottom of the drag beam to the rearmost frame spacer, so providing a much stronger join.

 

One photo, below, shows the current state of the cab end including the portion of the firebox which protrudes into the cab .  The footplate widening, just aft of the cylinders, is more clearly visible on this photo.

 

The other photo shows the two cab footstep assemblies each with its reinforcing  struts folded and attached, ready to fit under the cab, flush with the drag beam. Each of the step assemblies on the prototype was 'pinched in' by around 2 inches (0.6 mm), just above the upper step, so that the protruding steps would clear the loading gauge. This pinching in is reproduced on the model.

 

It's getting easier now!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

After a day or two away from the workbench, It's back to the B4.

 

I've been experimenting with ways of portraying boiler bands, having always previously used Arthur's etched nickel silver ones, thinned down. I used some adhesive masking tape, which was lightly stuck to a piece of hardboard. From this an 0.7 mm wide strip was cut. Now the test was/is whether the masking tape had retained enough adhesive, once released from the hardboard, to adhere to the brass boiler. It did, so the front and rear boiler bands were duly fitted and, so far, have stayed fitted.

 

I also cut and fitted the cab rear handrails, which should line up with various holes in the cab beading and the cab floor. They did, somewhat to my surprise, though this is another testament to the precision of the kit's design!!

 

Finally, if only to really make this look like a locomotive and an ex Great Central locomotive at that, suitable holes were opened out in the boiler and smokebox to check out the dome and chimney. Worth mentioning that the dome, which is a quite beautiful casting/turning was attached to a 4.5 mm diameter stem, so the corresponding hole in the boiler is quite large. The chimney does not have a stem but still requires a 3mm hole to be opened up in the smokebox.

 

Having said that, the fit of the dome and chimney over the boiler and smokebox is absolutely snug; the best I've ever seen!!

 

As I now proceed with this build I am more and more encouraged for though 'it is not for the faint hearted' it is perfectly capable of being built; with care.

 

Now to complete the cylinders and a few other details on the chassis prior to wheeling and powering this chassis.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by mikemeg

[18131r]

2 hours ago, mikemeg said:

LNER B4

 

After a day or two away from the workbench, It's back to the B4.

 

I've been experimenting with ways of portraying boiler bands, having always previously used Arthur's etched nickel silver ones, thinned down. I used some adhesive masking tape, which was lightly stuck to a piece of hardboard. From this a 0.7 mm wide strip was cut. Now the test was/is whether the masking tape had retained enough adhesive, once released from the hardboard, to adhere to the brass boiler. It did, so the front and rear boiler bands were duly fitted and, so far, have stayed fitted.

 

I also cut and fitted the cab rear handrails, which should line up with various holes in the cab beading and the cab floor. They did, somewhat to my surprise.

 

Finally, if only to really make this look like a locomotive and an ex Great Central locomotive at that, suitable holes were opened out in the boiler and smokebox to check out the dome and chimney. Worth mentioning that the dome, which is a quite beautiful casting/turning was attached to a 4.5 mm diameter stem, so the corresponding hole in the boiler is quite large. The chimney does not have a stem but still requires a 3mm hole to be opened up in the smokebox

 

As I now proceed with this build I am more and more encouraged for though 'it is not for the faint hearted' it is perfectly capable of being built; with care.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Hi Mike

 

I came across a you tube video by the 0 Gauge Guild in which they were interviewing a professional model railway painter, I can't remember his name but he used

"Magic Tape" to produce his boiler bands in the same way you have used masking tape. He stuck the tape onto plasticard rather that hardboard.

 

Might be worth trying if yours come unstuck.

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

[mikemeg]

1 hour ago, 18131r said:

Hi Mike

 

I came across a you tube video by the 0 Gauge Guild in which they were interviewing a professional model railway painter, I can't remember his name but he used

"Magic Tape" to produce his boiler bands in the same way you have used masking tape. He stuck the tape onto plasticard rather that hardboard.

 

Might be worth trying if yours come unstuck.

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

 

Richard,

 

Thanks for that tip. Sticking the tape to hardboard, obviously the shiny, smooth side, does leave a residue on the tape, which does affect its adhesion to anything else. Plasticard should remove this problem and will probably leave much more of the adhesive on the tape.

 

Once again, many thanks.

 

Mike

 

 

 

[JohnBateson]

The lack of a spigot with the chimney is to allow the potential of screwing the body to the chassis through the chimney rather than with the two nuts at the front.

These domes and chimneys are turned after fly cutting the curve and then doing a lot of shaping and finishing - about 3 hours work for each. The chimney is shaped using a hand tool against an template which is on the etches for the body (Sheet 5 at the top). It is always a great excuse to hide in the shed and bend my head over the work for hours at a time.

I am afraid that theflat shape of the dome shown I find is rather ugly, but that is the LNER for you. Much prefer the originals!

John

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

Personally, I cut my boiler bands from electricians tape, on a glass sheet, never lost one yet.

 

manna

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

So now to go back and complete the processes which have been left as the assembly proceeded. First such job is to complete the cylinders by infilling the straight sections between the cylinder and the mainframe, top and bottom on each side. For this I simply cut pieces of brass strip of the appropriate width and solder them to the cylinder formers.

 

On all cylinders which transition from curved to straight sections, especially the North Eastern ones, I always use separate straight sections rather than try and fold the straight section into the cylinder wrapper. The transition is often so tight that folding just doesn't give a sharp enough transition. On this model I have used the same approach though the straight sections are largely hidden.

 

Having fitted the straight sections to the cylinder formers, the wrapper can then be rolled, trimmed if necessary and then soldered to the cylinder formers.

 

The cylinder fronts, which are again quite beautiful turnings, are simply pushed into the wrappers to check the fit and are not yet soldered in until the tail rods have been fitted to each front cover.

 

The instructions make mention that the original tail rods were far longer than those later fitted to these locos by the LNER, however I still need to establish how long these shorter LNER fitted tail rods, actually were.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by mikemeg

[65179]

3 hours ago, mikemeg said:

LNER B4

 

So now to go back and complete the processes which have been left as the assembly proceeded. First such job is to complete the cylinders by infilling the straight sections between the cylinder and the mainframe, top and bottom on each side. For this I simply cut pieces of brass strip of the appropriate width and solder them to the cylinder formers.

 

On all cylinders which transition from curved to straight sections, especially the North Eastern ones, I always use separate straight sections rather than try and fold the straight section into the cylinder wrapper. The transition is often so tight that folding just doesn't give a sharp enough transition. On this model I have used the same approach though the straight sections are largely hidden.

 

Having fitted the straight sections to the cylinder formers, the wrapper can then be rolled, trimmed if necessary and then soldered to the cylinder formers.

 

The cylinder fronts, which are again quite beautiful turnings, are simply pushed into the wrappers to check the fit and are not yet soldered in until the tail rods have been fitted to each front cover.

 

The instructions make mention that the original tail rods were far longer than those later fitted to these locos by the LNER, however I still need to establish how long these shorter LNER fitted tail rods, actually were.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Just a small cover on the cylinder front by the looks of things in your period Mike. Try this Transport Library image from the Neville Stead collection:

 

https://www.thetransportlibrary.co.uk/m/media/bdcd0392-64df-458f-bfb1-57ce3829d167-lner-london-and-north-eastern-railway-steam-locomotive-class-b?hit_num=1&hits=1&page=1&per_page=25&search=Ns200321

 

There are various views of B4s, B5s and B9s in this state in the relevant Yeadon volume. There's also a view of 1482 on its home depot missing one cylinder cover reproduced on this page:

https://chasewaterstuff.wordpress.com/2013/01/23/

Hard to say if it ran in that state as many Q6s did in later years.

 

Regards,

Simon

[JohnBateson]

Mike,

As noted by 65179/Simon, the front cover could vary. The original tailrods did not last into LNER days I believe. This left the front of the cylinder with a hole open to steam. Therefore, the so-called stuff box, which stopped steam leaking through had to be blocked and in some cases (it seems to me) were covered with a rounded front cover and in others a flat cover with a protrusion which also blocked up the end hole.

 

As far as the rivets on the front buffer beam are concerned out of the 30 or so pictures available to me, only one had rivets showing and that was not "Immingham". So thanks for that picture. I hope I can add it to the library without offending any copyrights. I also note the door handle and additional rivets in places elsewhere - such as the door itself.

 

I like to think that Robinson formed his abhorrence of rivets during his apprenticeship at Swindon with the GWR. Hence 'green without rivets' for the GCR.

 

Conversation.

LNER Apprentice Fitter: "Guv, where do I fit all these rivets, please Sir?"

Bowler Hatted Foreman: "Anywhere you find a space, lad"

 

later that day

 

LNER Apprentice Fitter (slightly knackered after a 12 hour shift): Guv, I have fitted lots of rivets, Guv, but I have one left over. Where should I fit this last rivet, Guv?"

Bowler Hatted Foreman (now late for the pub and with some asperity): "In the last hole, you stupid boy"🤨

 

Mike,

And a little more seriously, I have a set of etches with space that may be ready to go to PPD in the next few weeks. If I could be sure of the positioning of the rivets I could add a couple of sets - same as the rear buffer beam cover half etch with bumps for the rivets. Up to you.

John

 

[65179]

On 31/05/2023 at 08:14, JohnBateson said:

 

As far as the rivets on the front buffer beam are concerned out of the 30 or so pictures available to me, only one had rivets showing and that was not "Immingham". So thanks for that picture. I hope I can add it to the library without offending any copyrights. I also note the door handle and additional rivets in places elsewhere - such as the door itself.

 

 

That ring of rivets is a feature of many GC smokebox doors in the late LNER period and into BR days.

 

One of the benefits of 3D printing is that this sort of feature can be easily incorporated:

 

Here's another of 1482 in final condition on its home shed from the Transports of Delight Smugmug site:

 

 

Simon

Edited June 1, 2023 by 65179

[mikemeg]

John,

 

Re the offer of a front buffer beam 'rivetted etch', that would be very useful and would save having to make a new buffer beam overlay.

 

To 65179/Simon, many thanks for the info and the references. The photo of 1482 at Driffield was actually taken in 1947, not 1950 as I had previously stated, though 1482 was seen at Driffield in the summer of 1950. The photo of 1482, above, must have been taken at Ardsley shed, shortly after Nationalisation. The last  four examples of the B4 were all based at Ardsley, by the final days of the LNER and the last one - 1482 - was withdrawn from that shed in November 1950.

 

I guess many of those who use this site will have heard the name Neville Stead; that photo of1482 was a part of his collection. Neville passed away on March 9th of this year, aged 85. Like many of my youthful colleagues, we knew Neville as part of the band of spotters and enthusiasts who congregated at Hessle Station and Hessle Haven during the 1950's and early 1960's. Indeed the inspiration for my Hessle Haven layout was an illustrated article written by Neville for one of the railway journals.

 

Neville moved to Whitley Bay in the mid 1960's and thus we lost touch with him  but continued to read his articles and some of the publications which he authored or inspired i.e. LNER  Locomotive Allocations The Last Day, which was published and authored by Willie Yeadon as a result of Neville's idea.

 

So R.I.P. Neville, and thank you for your legacy.

 

Mike

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by mikemeg

[JohnBateson]

Mike,

Please see attached a quick drawing of the front buffer beam. The red parts are not part of the buffer beam, they are there to show positioning of the rivets only and will not form part of the etch. Most of these rivets are very close to edges so 'punching through' from the back would not be good and would seriously distort the part. I would suggest a half etch with 'bumps' on the front exactly as the rear buffer beam for your kit. From experience the rivets cannot be a lower diameter than shown since if they are slightly over etched all you will see will be a selection of pimples!

Use your fibre glass brush to smooth them down.

 

PS. You will have great fun trying to get 1482 numbering on this buffer beam.

 

John

[65179]

On 31/05/2023 at 09:31, mikemeg said:

John,

 

Re the offer of a front buffer beam 'rivetted etch', that would be very useful and would save having to make a new buffer beam overlay.

 

To 65179/Simon, many thanks for the info and the references. The photo of 1482 at Driffield was actually taken in 1947, not 1950 as I had previously stated, though 1482 was seen at Driffield in the summer of 1950. The photo of 1482, above, must have been taken at Ardsley shed, shortly after Nationalisation. The last  four examples of the B4 were all based at Ardsley, by the final days of the LNER and the last one - 1482 - was withdrawn from that shed in November 1950.

 

Mike

 

 

Very sad to hear that Neville Stead has passed away Mike. Many of us have benefitted from his extensive photo collection.

 

The photo above of 1482 on Ardsley shed is almost certainly later than 22/5/49 as I have a photo of the loco on the same shed road taken on that date and it lacks the shedplate shown in the Transports of Delight photo.

 

One more while I remember where it is:

 

https://railphotoprints.uk/p307122656/hf28c9ee6

 

Simon