Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

So the thumb and fingers have survived the assembly and shaping of the second of the eccentric links, so now onto the motion lifting gear assemblies. Again, two of these driven from a common lifting gear axle.

 

As yet, neither of the two valve rod assemblies has the end spindles soldered up and won't be until all of the motion components are assembled. 

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by mikemeg

[Pebbles]

On 03/03/2023 at 18:51, Blandford1969 said:

Is there any news on how Arthur is doing, I remember it being said he was sadly not very well?

My understanding is that Arthur is back at home, and having regular ongoing physiotherapy.  I'm sure we all send him our best wishes.  

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

Having assembled the rotating arm and made some new lifting arms, then a quick check that this assembly lines up before starting to solder the various bits together whilst still preserving movement at the ends of the eccentric link and on the join between the lifting arm and the eccentric link.

 

The two joints at the ends of the eccentric link are the only ones which should be subject to any serious movement and stress; the other joints are still subject to movement but much less so with less stress.

 

The eccentric cams, at the left of the photo still need cleaning up to remove excess solder. 

 

I'm now having to resort to the lighted magnifying glass to do some of this as the parts are very small.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by mikemeg

[30368]

Mike,

 

This is really great work, I am really looking forward to the assembly of the link motion. Very brave. I have built up a Judith Edge B9 etch - needed a scratch built boiler and firebox. I also have a Great Central B7 kit to build so I will keep a close eye on this build. Good luck.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[mikemeg]

Richard,

 

Many thanks for the kind words. In all honesty, the assembly of this motion is right at the limit for me; the limit of actually seeing the pieces with sufficient clarity, the limit of handling such tiny components and the limit of soldering multiple tiny components together. But, with care (quite a lot of care) and patience (ever such a lot of that) it is possible to assemble this motion.

 

Anyway I've now soldered up the first set of motion, except for the rotating arm. The joint spindles have then all been trimmed flush to prevent any fouling of the parts when moving. The whole thing moves freely when the eccentric cams are rotated so now for the second set after which the actual valve spindles will be assembled and tested.

 

Once this motion is assembled and installed, then the loco superstructure should be comparatively simple - famous last words, perhaps!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by mikemeg

[Chas Levin]

On 11/03/2023 at 11:35, mikemeg said:

I'm now having to resort to the lighted magnifying glass to do some of this as the parts are very small.

Nothing wrong with that Mike - happens to (almost) everyone! I now do the majority of soldering, glueing and painting under a lighted magnifier lamp and anything remotely fine scale, I use a headband magnifier with two lenses to give considerable enlagement, with the magnifier lamp's lighting hovering over the workpiece too.

If it enables us to do good work, it's a Good Thing...

[MarkC]

1 hour ago, Chas Levin said:

Nothing wrong with that Mike - happens to (almost) everyone! I now do the majority of soldering, glueing and painting under a lighted magnifier lamp and anything remotely fine scale, I use a headband magnifier with two lenses to give considerable enlagement, with the magnifier lamp's lighting hovering over the workpiece too.

If it enables us to do good work, it's a Good Thing...

I'm suddenly heading down that road myself...

 

Mark

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

With the assembly of the reversing axle incorporating the rotating arms - which lift or lower the eccentric links and thus change the valve travel - then the various motion components are now almost complete. Still need to add two more tiny (2.0 mm) pieces of 1/16" tube to the axle to hold the rotating arms in place to fully complete the motion. The actual valve spindles are done but not shown on this photo.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

Well, after a few days of assembling various tiny assemblies, checking that they move freely - if they are intended to move - and then musing for an hour or so as to how to assemble the reversing axle, with everything on it and insert the whole lot between the mainframes without losing any of the parts.

 

The reversing axle contains, 2.3 mm spacer, rotating arm lhs, 4.5 mm spacer, counterweight and arm, 4.5 mm spacer, rotating arm rhs, 2.0 mm spacer, reversing axle actuator; all threaded onto a 0.8 mm rod, notionally 17.0 mm long. The whole lot is then slotted into two holes, one in each mainframe.

 

The  ends of the rotating arms will carry the joints to the lifting arms on the eccentric assemblies thus holding these assemblies in place and in position. They will be pinned with removable pins to facilitate the motion being removed for servicing, etc.  

 

Anyway, after a little experimentation the axle with its attendant parts was successfully inserted between the mainframes and quickly soldered into place, to prevent the whole lot falling out. All of the components mounted on the axle are still free to rotate on the 0.8 mm rod until the final assemblies are fitted and adjusted.

 

As an aside, the counterweight is a very fine brass component, separately packed and labelled as part of the kit, though it has to be drilled to accept the balance arm. 

 

Now for the real test; actually making this lot work!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by mikemeg

[JohnBateson]

I would leave the lifting arms in a fixed position so that they fix throught the bottom half of the link - there is just not enough strength in tne reversing arm to get the whole lot to move - if you have you have a reverser in the cab complete with turning handle and it operates the lifting axle that would really be an acheivement. That was a step too far for me. Way too far!

[mikemeg]

15 hours ago, JohnBateson said:

I would leave the lifting arms in a fixed position so that they fix throught the bottom half of the link - there is just not enough strength in tne reversing arm to get the whole lot to move - if you have you have a reverser in the cab complete with turning handle and it operates the lifting axle that would really be an acheivement. That was a step too far for me. Way too far!

 

John,

 

My plan for the motion is to minimise the friction / resistance on this. Realistically, the only part of the working motion which will be discernible - as moving - is the movement of the eccentric links and the valve rods from the middle driving axle to the eccentric links. Even the slight movement of the valve spindles (3 - 4 mm at max.), at the eccentric end, won't be seen once the boiler covers this lot.

 

So the reversing  / lifting axle will be fixed, as will everything on that axle, once the rotating rods have been correctly positioned and attached to the lifting rods (using removable pins). The lifting rods shouldn't move under normal operating conditions as they are pivoted at the centre of the eccentric link, though the eccentric links oscillate about that joint so there is a bearing here.

 

As to the joint for the valve spindles, I am tempted to leave them unattached to the eccentric links, though positioned at the bottom of those links with an overlapping, though unpinned joint. Effectively, the bottom of the eccentric link will slide in the ends of the fixed valve spindles.

 

As for extending the 'animation' of this to include the reverser linkage within the cab; no. This, as you have said, is a step way too far.

 

The 22 - 24 mm high crews, who will be charged with 'driving' this model, will just have to put up with a reduction of functionality within their cab!! After all, even for the 4mm live steam models, the fireman is redundant!!

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

After an unplanned lay of from the workbench - with the flu - now back to the B4. The front bogie has been assembled and checked for clearances so now the various sub-assemblies can be put together to form the working chassis. After that the gearbox and motor can be added. The gearbox will be a High Level Highflyer with a Mashima 1424 motor. Shortly before Mashima ceased production of their motors I bought a couple of dozen, of various sizes, which I am still using up.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

While I await the delivery of the last parts to fully complete the chassis, I have made a start on the locomotive superstructure. The footplate has been partially assembled, the cab sides have been detailed with their brass beading strips and the beading around the cab side cut outs. The cab front has also been detailed and the splasher tops curved to the approximate profile needed. The Belpaire firebox is almost complete, just one more inspection hatch (where the wire is protruding), the wash out plugs and Ross pop safety valves to add

 

A test set up, with the cab sides and front just resting on each other and the partially completed firebox also just positioned against the cab front and sides. This should solder up without too much trouble.

 

Believe it or not, in building well over thirty etched brass kits this is the first Belpaire firebox I have ever done.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by mikemeg

[JohnBateson]

A length of "L" under the platform will stop this lot bending while doing the heavy stuff. Only do the valences after the firebox, boiler and smoke box provide a good lock.

Don't forget to remove the front support bracket , it is an assembly guide not a permanent fixture.

[mikemeg]

1 hour ago, JohnBateson said:

A length of "L" under the platform will stop this lot bending while doing the heavy stuff. Only do the valences after the firebox, boiler and smoke box provide a good lock.

Don't forget to remove the front support bracket , it is an assembly guide not a permanent fixture.

 

Thanks John.

 

Any and all advice on building this kit is very welcome. I'm going nowhere near my usual pace on this but that is down to my unfamiliarity with your design and engineering methods.

 

The front support bracket is only 'tack soldered' to the two footplate sections, so should be reasonably easy to remove when appropriate.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

The firebox has now been soldered to the cab front, after completing the section of the firebox which actually lies inside the cab. The cab sides/firebox were then soldered to the footplate, after which the two centre splasher fronts have been fitted to the footplate. The nameplate - Immingham - is actually etched with the two centre splasher fronts, so no need to order separate nameplates.

 

At last, 1482 - 'Immingham' begins to resemble a locomotive and an ex Great Central locomotive at that!! I will complete the body, at least structurally, before assembling the gearbox and motor as I am not certain what size of Mashima 14xx will actually fit into the firebox/boiler. Hopefully I can get a 1426 or even 1428 into it but we shall see.

 

As if progress on this build wasn't slow enough, it has been further slowed by the arrival of some spring weather, which allows me to get out into the gardens to prepare them for summer.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by mikemeg

[30368]

44 minutes ago, mikemeg said:

As if progress on this build wasn't slow enough, it has been further slowed by the arrival of some spring weather, which allows me to get out into the gardens to prepare them for summer.

 

 

HI Mike,

 

The B4 is looking very good. It is true that you reach a stage in a loco build when the prototype "look" just jumps out at you! I am pleased that Spring has arrived in Yorkshire, it is still very reluctant to appear in The High Peak!

 

I have had a look back at my B9 build, not very different from your B4. It seems that I tried a couple of motor/gearbox combinations but really no trouble in fitting any of them under the firebox and out of the way of the firebox backplate.

 

 

 

Mr Robinson's locomotives always look nicely balanced.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Richard B

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

Richard,

 

Many thanks for the information and photos of your B9. The reason that I have delayed fully assembling the chassis is that because I am fitting the inside motion, then I am almost compelled to drive the B4 from the rear axle, as there will not be sufficient space on the centre axle to accept the eccentric cams and the gearbox and final drive gear. This then  constrains the orientation of the motor to facing forward either horizontally or some form of diagonal, Thus, until I have the boiler and firebox assembled and checked, I can't be sure of the maximum motor size which can be accommodated.

 

As for Spring, here in Scarborough; we have been blessed, recently, with some dry and reasonably sunny weather, however we are still 'afflicted' with an easterly wind off the sea; and the sea is currently at its coldest, so that wind is a mite chilly.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

All of the splashers have now been assembled, as has the cab floor, which is in two layers - upper and lower - with two 12 BA nuts sandwiched and soldered between the two layers to facilitate fixing the chassis to the body.

 

The two footplate cupboards have been assembled and trial fitted, along with the shelf and foot board on the left hand cupboard. There are some tiny etches which represent the cupboard door hinges, little more than 1 mm square, which fit into etched recesses on the rear of the cupboard assemblies; some of the smallest etches I've ever seen.

 

The shelf and footboard are interesting in that they are formed of two layers with a half etched edge to each layer, such that when the layers are folded back on each other, one edge (the edge visible on the shelf and footboard on the left hand cupboard) becomes rounded to represent the rounded edge of these wooden fixtures.

 

Once the right hand cupboard is completed then onto the cab roof and then forward to the boiler, etc.

 

Looking a little more like a locomotive!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by mikemeg

[Chas Levin]

5 hours ago, mikemeg said:

Looking a little more like a locomotive!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

It is indeed looking more like a loco, Mike; it's also looking like something that's been soldered together, but with virtually no solder left visible, something to which I still aspire!

[mikemeg]

13 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

 

It is indeed looking more like a loco, Mike; it's also looking like something that's been soldered together, but with virtually no solder left visible, something to which I still aspire!

 

Chas,

 

Some fairly simple practices to avoid unnecessary solder showing :-

 

a) Wherever possible, solder joints from the inside.

 

b) When soldering two parts together, trial fit the joint to ensure that the two parts join with no visible gap, before soldering as solder will leech through any gaps and show.

 

c) When soldering parts which have 'matching' curves i.e. splasher tops to splasher fronts, ensure that the curves match before any solder is applied.

 

d) Where solder does escape or show then, wherever possible, use fine emery or a glass fibre brush to remove it.

 

e) Tinning parts can often provide better results than simply applying solder to a joint.

 

f) Using the correct iron also helps- enormously!

 

I'm sure that other folk could/can add many other tips to this list. Perhaps the most relevant tip would simply be that, like many activities, the more of it one does, the better one becomes!!

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Chas Levin]

43 minutes ago, mikemeg said:

 

Chas,

 

Some fairly simple practices to avoid unnecessary solder showing :-

 

a) Wherever possible, solder joints from the inside.

 

b) When soldering two parts together, trial fit the joint to ensure that the two parts join with no visible gap, before soldering as solder will leech through any gaps and show.

 

c) When soldering parts which have 'matching' curves i.e. splasher tops to splasher fronts, ensure that the curves match before any solder is applied.

 

d) Where solder does escape or show then, wherever possible, use fine emery or a glass fibre brush to remove it.

 

e) Tinning parts can often provide better results than simply applying solder to a joint.

 

f) Using the correct iron also helps- enormously!

 

I'm sure that other folk could/can add many other tips to this list. Perhaps the most relevant tip would simply be that, like many activities, the more of it one does, the better one becomes!!

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

Thanks Mike - all very good advice; my main problem is derived from my rather larger scale DIY activities and it's best described as Secure Fixing Anxiety Syndrome: I always want to be as sure as possible that once a thing's been fixed, it'll stay there, which leads to my using more solder than necessary.

As you note though, cleaning up - especailly with fibre-glass brushes - can be very effective and I support one good thing to come from my over-soldering tendency is that I'm getting much better at cleaning up my work!

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

Now shaped and then detailed the cab roof. The cab roof  bracing straps are suppled as straight pieces of 'L' and 'T' section brass, which must  then be annealed (to soften the brass) and then the end sections cut and curved from the 'L' section strip. The side sections are also cut from the 'L' section strip and are shaped at their ends to lie flush over the lower web of the end bracings. The centre bracing strap is cut from 'T' section brass strip and is, again, shaped at the ends to lie over the lower web of the 'L' sections.

 

After this lot was assembled and before sitting down with a large glass of something red and alcholic, the roof was cleaned up to remove any flux, solder and muck.

 

Luckily, the curvature of the roof seems to exactly match that of the cab front so no further fettling or curving is necessary.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by mikemeg

[D-A-T]

As a rooky at this soldering lark the one tip I use is to use “shavings” of solder just laid next to the joint and to then introduce the soldering iron so they melt and flash along the joint.  It’s amazing how little solder you need. Previously I’d get the joint  hot and then feed in the solder and create a “fillet” of solder thinking more (solder) is better (joint). I got this from the chap who demonstrates resistance soldering at Scalefour North.

PS I now swear by my RSU for most but not all soldering jobs. 

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

Here's a 'dodge' which I use on almost all of my models of tender locomotives, which does conflict with prototype accuracy but which makes the handling and positioning of the cab rooves much easier.

 

Tiny pieces of .020" plasticard are cut (5 mm long) and glued to the forward corners of the inside of the cab roof. These pieces are attached so that they are an interference fit with the cab sides and also provide the correct locating of the cab roof with respect to the cab front.

 

Once the cab interior is painted and suitably 'mucked up' these tiny strips are virtually invisible and can only be seen by peering into the cab from the tender front, which doesn't happen very frequently on 4 mm models. Only the 4 mm scale crew really know they are there!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by mikemeg