Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[k22009]

2 hours ago, mikemeg said:

On an entirely different issue, does anyone know where RMWeb is in trying to recover lost photographic images?  Or has this recovery exercise come to a halt?

 

Cheers

 

MIke

 

 

Hi Mike

 

Andy posted this a few weeks ago.

 

 

"It is evident from matters over the preceding weeks that no further progress with the restoration of images is likely to be made. The previous hosts maintained that their earlier backup was viable but the majority of folders containing the images from each month over the years were empty or corrupted. Beyond initial good progress it's been a very small minority that were recoverable and restored.

 

I fully understand the frustrations on an individual basis, especially for those who had uploaded content and I can assure you no-one has been more annoyed about it than me. I can only apologise (although not having caused it) but I am grateful to and impressed by those who have made inroads into restoring content from their locally saved files.

 

It's not a good outcome but thanks to measures taken before the crash at the end of March is a whole lot better than it could have been."

Edited October 19, 2022 by k22009

[mikemeg]

J72's Various

 

Before I launch into the build of the B4 and while I am slowly digesting the very comprehensive instruction set, a photo of a now painted North Eastern Kits LNER J72; one of the members of the class with the longer bunker and one of the last batch which were actually built by British Railways after nationalisation.

 

This one, finished in a 'mid way' state between newly painted and well weather worn, was based in Hull in 1950 and is shown with two other J72's which were Bachmann conversions from the older Bachmann model. From other photographs, one or other of these models has a slightly incorrectly dimensioned cab window cut out. Checking side on photos of these locos, it's apparent that it is the older Bachman model which is wrong; Arthur's kit is correct.

 

Anyway, as long as this line up isn't repeated on the layout, no one should be able to make the comparison.

 

I still have one more J72 to paint, which was the test build for the short bunker version and which will become 68670 (the doyen of the class), again based in Hull in 1950. So this line up may be photographed again with 'four of em' and then with all nine of the 0-6-0 tanks on the layout.

 

Really must stop building these 0-6-0 tanks but Hull did have over forty of them in 1950 and I'm old enough to remember those Sunday afternoon 'shed bashes' seeing row upon row, stall upon stall, of locomotives, lined up on their 'day off'.

 

And it's those memories which still motivate and inspire me to keep building the locos and the layout!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by mikemeg

[18131r]

On 19/10/2022 at 11:08, mikemeg said:

It is quite a time since I posted to this thread with the summer taken up with some gardening, some travelling, including trips on various steam hauled services - Scarborough Spa Express, The Jacobite and on the NYMR - and quite a lot of 'bits and pieces' jobs to repair and, in some cases, update some of the existing models. 

 

At the very start of this thread I described the 'conversion' of the Bachmann J72 to P4 using the HIgh Level Chassis kit and also making various mods to the Bachmann body. I always intended to replace the footsteps on these models as the originals were very thick and chunky but never got around to it. Anyway, as I had to remake some footsteps for the T1, then I did get around to it and re-made sets of footplate steps for the two Bachmann J72's as well. Photo below shows the last pair awaiting fitting.

 

So having built 'goodness knows' how many ex North Eastern locos, time now to change pre-grouping source with an ex Great Central loco. I bought this kit - the LNER B4 'Immingham' - some years ago and it has lain in the 'to be built cupboard' these past years, finally to see the light of workshop day, last week. This kit is no longer in production, so might not serve to help any other would be builders of this particular model, but it does contain some innovative approaches and a great deal of detail, so  could be challenging and might be informative.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Hello Mike 

 

Seasons Greetings to you and all your readers.

 

Hope you are well.

 

How is the B4 progressing, it has been a long time since you posted.

I and also I hope other followers of your thread have been starved of your builds and the detailed explanations you give.

I hope you will post some updates as I for one need a bit of motivation at the moment.

 

Did this class get as far as Hessle?

 

Cheers 

 

Richard

 

[mikemeg]

Richard,

 

Many thanks for the kind words. As to the B4, reading through the instructions, a couple of months ago, I noticed that I needed 0.3 and 0.4 mm drills. Now my stock of such drills had exhausted and I also needed a new pin chuck which items were duly ordered from Eileen's Emporium. I received an e-mail, on their receipt of my order, informing me that many of their suppliers were now supplying on very long lead times so the delivery would be delayed. Later I received notification that Eileen's Emporium had gone into administration, so no drills were received, though I did get the pin chuck.

 

While waiting for these items to arrive I restarted work on Hessle Haven, the layout, which has occupied me for the last five or six weeks.

 

As to the B4, the last survivor which was 1482 (still in LNER lined green and numbered 1482) was withdrawn from Ardsley shed in late 1950 and, I believe, was seen on a working to the Yorkshire coast during summer of 1950. Certainly, during the first years of British Railways, there were occasional visits to Hull by some of the ex-Great Central 4-6-0's up to their withdrawal.

 

Anyway, I have now completed the project on the layout - provision of some 27 feet of lineside fencing - and have found another supplier of small drills, so a start on the B4 is imminent.

 

May I also wish readers of the thread the very Happiest of New Years.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by mikemeg

[18131r]

4 hours ago, mikemeg said:

Richard,

 

Many thanks for the kind words. As to the B4, reading through the instructions, a couple of months ago, I noticed that I needed 0.3 and 0.4 mm drills. Now my stock of such drills had exhausted and I also needed a new pin chuck which items were duly ordered from Eileen's Emporium. I received an e-mail, on their receipt of my order, informing me that many of their suppliers were now supplying on very long lead times so the delivery would be delayed. Later I received notification that Eileen's Emporium had gone into administration, so no drills were received, though I did get the pin chuck.

 

While waiting for these items to arrive I restarted work on Hessle Haven, the layout, which has occupied me for the last five or six weeks.

 

As to the B4, the last survivor which was 1492 (still in LNER lined green and numbered 1492) was withdrawn from Ardsley shed in late 1950 and, I believe, was seen on a working to the Yorkshire coast during summer of 1950. Certainly, during the first years of British Railways, there were occasional visits to Hull by some of the ex-Great Central 4-6-0's up to their withdrawal.

 

Anyway, I have now completed the project on the layout - provision of some 27 feet of lineside fencing - and have found another supplier of small drills, so a start on the B4 is imminent.

 

May I also wish readers of the thread the very Happiest of New Years.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Mike

 

Glad to hear you have been busy.

Did you scratch build the fencing?

I scratch built 4 ft  of NER fencing for my small layout and  I thought I had done well.

 

It was bad news concerning Eileen's Emporium, they were my go to supplier of tools and materials

 

I take it then that 1492 will be the one you build.

 

Please post your B4 build, I certainly will be looking for it. 

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[mikemeg]

18 hours ago, 18131r said:

Mike

 

Glad to hear you have been busy.

Did you scratch build the fencing?

I scratch built 4 ft  of NER fencing for my small layout and  I thought I had done well.

 

It was bad news concerning Eileen's Emporium, they were my go to supplier of tools and materials

 

I take it then that 1492 will be the one you build.

 

Please post your B4 build, I certainly will be looking for it. 

 

Cheers

 

Richard

 

Richard,

 

My mistake!  The last B4 was 1482, though the rest of the posting was correct; the loco was actually seen at Driffield during the summer of 1950 and was withdrawn in November 1950. So, yes, 1482 - Immingham - is the B4 I shall build.

 

As to the North Eastern fencing, yes I scratch built it. I have this photo, shown below courtesy of my old mate Mick Nicholson, which shows the lineside fencing pretty well and, coincidentally, is the exact location of my Hessle Haven layout. All of the signals on this photo, including those beyond the bridge, have already been modelled, as has the bridge in the distance. That was the bridge where a youthful bunch of spotters first discovered and then spent many happy days watching the trains from 1957 to 1964.

 

Apart from the up and down fast lines, all of this has now disappeared including the bridge. So photos such as this are a wonderful reminder of a time when the railway was just a joy to behold.

 

I don't know the date of this photo but with the B1 carrying the full British Railways legend on its tender, then it's not far, either way,  from June 1950, which is the date of my layout. The train looks as though it was the Hull portion of the up Yorkshire Pullman, which was attached to the Leeds - London portion at Doncaster.

 

The three additional photos, below, are some of the scratch built signal models waiting to go onto the layout.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by mikemeg

[18131r]

Mike

 

What a bonus having that photo.

 

Your scratch built signals are exceptional, the gantry in particular.

 

Funny seeing the section of fence with the top rail missing.

 

When I built my fence I left out a couple of complete section across a base board joint, I have shown it as a pile of timber being rebuilt by a man with a shovel, it adds a bit of variety to the scene.

 

I also started my train spotting around the time you did, mine was done at Ditton junction station on the line from Liverpool to Crewe, all ex LMS and BR standards.

If we got up early usually on a Sunday morning we saw the prototype Deltic in charge of an express passenger train to London.

 

How I developed an interest in the NER is a mystery.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by 18131r
to add a comment

[rowanj]

Hi Mike. In lieu of Arthur's J21 kit, I'm building the LRM version, as 65110 which kept its extended smoke box after the superheater was remove ...up to withdrawal in 1960. This isn't supplied in the LRM kit, so needs to be scratchbuilt. I can use photos, but wonder if Arthur's kit which you test built has information to confirm the width of the etch in his kit?

John

[Pebbles]

John Edgson's J21 drawing shows this as 3ft 4 1/8 inches.

[rowanj]

2 hours ago, Pebbles said:

John Edgson's J21 drawing shows this as 3ft 4 1/8 inches.

Thanks, but isn't that the short one, fitted to the saturated locos, or often,as in 65033, fitted when the superheated was removed

Edit 

Apologies, Pebbles, following the info on Mike's post. You are quite correct. Thanks

 

John

Edited January 3, 2023 by rowanj

[Worsdell forever]

1 hour ago, 18131r said:

Mike

 

What a bonus having that photo.

 

Funny seeing the section of fence with the top rail missing.

 

When I built my fence I left out a couple of complete section across a base board joint, I have shown it as a pile of timber being rebuilt by a man with a shovel, it adds a bit of variety to the scene.

 

I've built a fair bit of NER lineside fencing, over 12ft on the Rosedale layout, quite enjoy building it out of Evergreen strip. I left a piece being rebuilt on Greyscroft to get round a board joint. (ignore the poor track joint, normally hidden with normal viewing)

 

1 hour ago, 18131r said:

 

How I developed an interest in the NER is a mystery.

 

 

Why not?

[mikemeg]

2 hours ago, rowanj said:

Hi Mike. In lieu of Arthur's J21 kit, I'm building the LRM version, as 65110 which kept its extended smoke box after the superheater was remove ...up to withdrawal in 1960. This isn't supplied in the LRM kit, so needs to be scratchbuilt. I can use photos, but wonder if Arthur's kit which you test built has information to confirm the width of the etch in his kit?

John

 

Hi John,

 

Measuring Arthur's extended smokebox wrapper, it comes out at around13.5 mm - a scale 3' 4 1/2"; the shorter, saturated wrapper comes out at around 10.5 mm - a scale 2' 7 1/2". Arthur used General Arrangement drawings to scale his etches, so reasonably safe to assume that these dimensions are correct. Arthur is indisposed at the moment, so contacting him for clarification isn't, currently, an option.

 

The test build which I did of the extended smokebox (ex superheated) version is modelled on 65110, of which I have a few photographs. Hull had J21's before the war but, post war, they had all been re-allocated so I chose a Selby (50C) prototype for the saturated build - 65039 - and a Darlington (51A) prototype for the superheated build - 65110. These were the allocated sheds for these locos as at mid-1950.

 

I did test build a third J21 as 65070 of Retford (36E); this to check revised etches. This one was not vacuum fitted (65039 and 65110 were vacuum fitted; 65039 also retained its Westinghouse pump) and also had the later, central, compensated brake pull rod; again 65039 and 65110 retained the brake pull rods outside of the driving wheels.

 

Also worth noting that the handrails on the smokebox were continuous on the longer smokebox but with a separate front handrail on the shorter, saturated smokebox. Also, the superheated locos (and ex superheated) mounted a mechanical lubricator on the left hand side of the footplate. This because saturated (or wet) steam was a lubricant; superheated steam was not as efficient as a lubricant.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by mikemeg

[rowanj]

Thanks Mike, and Pebbles- really helpful. I intend to have a go at the mechanical lubricator, which is very prominent on photos of the locos with superheating. As I recall, Arthur wasnt going to inclede an etch in his kit.

65110 finished up at Heaton, where it was used, among other things, on summer excursions from Newcastle up the ECML to Morpeth then onto the branches to Rothbury and Bellingham, so fits my purposes admirably

The LRM kit is a bit long in the tooth now, and a modern kit would be great.

John

[Pebbles]

On 03/01/2023 at 16:54, rowanj said:

Thanks Mike, and Pebbles- really helpful. I intend to have a go at the mechanical lubricator, which is very prominent on photos of the locos with superheating. As I recall, Arthur wasnt going to inclede an etch in his kit.

65110 finished up at Heaton, where it was used, among other things, on summer excursions from Newcastle up the ECML to Morpeth then onto the branches to Rothbury and Bellingham, so fits my purposes admirably

The LRM kit is a bit long in the tooth now, and a modern kit would be great.

John

Just a suggestion! If Mike still has a spare long smokebox from one of his builds, with slight modification you could possibly use this.

[mikemeg]

20 hours ago, Pebbles said:

Just a suggestion! If Mike still has a spare long smokebox from one of his builds, with slight modification you could possibly use this.

 

John,

 

The mechanical lubricator, shown on my photo of the superheated (or ex superheated) J21, is not an etching, it is one of Arthur's castings and I have a spare one if that will help you. Also, I have an assembled long smokebox (assembled just to check it out, even though it was superfluous from the last build which was saturated) with the pop rivetted wrapper. Arthur supplied both the flush rivetted and pop rivetted wrappers for both types of smokebox, flush for the NER and early LNER boilers; pop rivetted for the later LNER boilers fitted to this class.

 

I'll check to see what other parts I have for J21's, given that I built three of them, all different in a number of  features.

 

PM me with your address (and phone number) and I'll send you the lubricator, assembled smokebox and whatever else I have which may be useful for your build.

 

Regards

 

MIke

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

Now embarking on the construction of the Great Central B4 kit, a reminder of what the prototype looked like in its final years. Though this loco was not withdrawn until November 1950, it retained its LNER livery and markings until withdrawal.

 

Like many pre-grouping locomotive designs these 4-6-0's just looked intrinsically right!  An almost complete absence of externally fitted equipment and with each different section of the locomotive exhibiting flowing curves preserving that impression of perfectly balanced aesthetics. They were just lovely things!!

 

The first photo shows the loco on Ardsley shed, the second photo shows the loco passing through Driffield presumably en route to or from either Bridlington or Scarborough. Both photos are courtesy my old mate Mick Nicholson, whose collection of photos is rapidly becoming legendary.

 

Cheers

 

MIke

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by mikemeg

[65179]

Looking forward to seeing how you get on with this Mike. I've always liked the GC 4-6-0s and my modelling period is a few months earlier than ours to have an excuse to run a B7. That hasn't stopped me building a B9 though despite the last going in 1949. I've sadly no evidence of Immingham west of the Pennines in 1950 so my token apple green loco will be a B1.

 

Are you aware of Geoff Holt's two volumes on Locomotive Modelling? In those he built a kit and scratchbuilt two GC condition Imminghams. The first volume has a loco GA (split across a double page) and the second a tender GA (one or two anomalies in that drawing). Your build will be quite different though given your later period and the features unique to 1482.

 

Regards,

Simon

[mikemeg]

On 17/01/2023 at 12:46, 65179 said:

Looking forward to seeing how you get on with this Mike. I've always liked the GC 4-6-0s and my modelling period is a few months earlier than ours to have an excuse to run a B7. That hasn't stopped me building a B9 though despite the last going in 1949. I've sadly no evidence of Immingham west of the Pennines in 1950 so my token apple green loco will be a B1.

 

Are you aware of Geoff Holt's two volumes on Locomotive Modelling? In those he built a kit and scratchbuilt two GC condition Imminghams. The first volume has a loco GA (split across a double page) and the second a tender GA (one or two anomalies in that drawing). Your build will be quite different though given your later period and the features unique to 1482.

 

Regards,

Simon

 

Hi Simon,

 

Like you, my modelling period - June, 1950 - pretty well excludes LNER apple green, except for B1's and the early Peppercorn A1's, which were finished in apple green though with British Railways numbers and markings. So a locomotive still exhibiting full LNER apple green with LNER markings, in mid 1950, couldn't really be missed.

 

That said, I do have an LNER B15, all of which had gone by 1948, though that is in LNER black; much weathered,

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

[mikemeg]

Before I launch into the 'blow by blow' of the B4 build, earlier in this thread I referred to scratch building some NER / LNER lineside fencing, though I never did illustrate this build with any pictures. This was due to my losing the photo editor (an old Adobe product) from the very old laptop which I use for editing and storing my photos and which is also the system I use for accessing RMWeb. Anyway, that loss has now been made good - as if by magic - by the appearance, on this old laptop, of a much more current and far more capable photo/video editor courtesy of Microsoft, so normal service can be resumed on the thread.

 

So the lineside fencing. First thing to say is that I wanted this fencing to be removable from the layout baseboards so that it would escape damage if and when the layout baseboards are moved. Second thing to say is that I wanted to use wood rather than plasticard microstrip to model this wooden fencing. Third thing to say is that because I used wood, then rather than paint the finished fencing I could 'dye' the fencing using a water based paint very heavily diluted which would give that variation in colour and texture.

 

So the basic material is 1mm balsa, which came in sheets 4" x 4". These sheets were cut into strips approx. 2mm deep for the posts and 1.3 mm deep for the rails. For the posts, two layers were stuck together, producing strips 2 mm square, which were then each filed back to around 1.6 mm square.

 

In total some 360 posts 24mm long (deliberately over sized but mounted to produce a 14mm fence height) were cut and some 450 fencing rail sections, each around 1.3 mm deep. The hardboard fence support pieces, which were cut to match the depth of the baseboard sides and which were of varying lengths, were then fitted with various paper and cardboard formers to mark out the fence post positions and carry various other data items.

 

Anyway the fencing was then assembled, using very fine tweezers, a magnifying glass, PVA and Evo-stik adhesives. One of the most tedious modelling jobs I have ever done - the whole 27 feet of fencing took nearly a month to produce - but the results seem to warrant the time and tedium.

 

So, in a nutshell, that is the scratch built lineside fencing. Hopefully the photo sequence will help to explain the process. The final photo shows eight of the total of twelve sections produced. The green painted areas, lightly flocked, are intended to cover the white paper used for marking out the fencing, when the sections are fitted to the baseboards and to identify the baseboard section and position. All of the paper and card sections are hidden when the fencing boards are fitted.

 

Anyway, the diversion from the loco building is, for the time being, complete, so now for the B4 and a whole different set of challenges!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

As an introduction to this topic, a little history. I bought this kit from John Bateson some years ago, when John was developing and selling 4mm loco kits under the name of Great Central Models. Sadly, John no longer produces kits or trades under that name which is a great loss. I can well remember a conversation with John, in a Wakefield School car park at Scalefour North, where we both kind of committed to trying to build 4 mm models of all of the LNER 'B' classes and there were some eighteen of them. This commitment is now probably modified to 'as many as we can', given that I have only so far done B1, B15 and B16 and many of these 'B' classes were further sub-divided i.e. B16/1, B16/2 and B16/3 which were visibly quite different.

 

Anyway, the kit is quite beautifully packed and very comprehensive; containing everything, except wheels, motor and gearbox, necessary to build a 4mm model of the Great Central Class 8K / LNER B4.

 

Starting with the loco mainframes, these were parted from the etch, all cusp removed and then the rows of rivets under the smokebox, were very gently pressed out. I normally use a slightly blunted compass point for this  and will go over the rivets pressing five or six times until they are sufficiently prominent. All mainframe drillings of 0.33 mm, 0.5mm, 0.7 mm and1.05 mm were then done before adding the springing supports, These supports use Alan Gibson short handrail stanchions orientated with some 0.3 mm wire and then soldered into the mainframes, after which the protruding tails are filed back flush with the outside of the mainframe. I used the Alan Gibson short stanchions, rather than the Markits ones provided, simply because the Gibson ones have a larger shoulder.

 

The photo, below, shows the outside of one frame with the spring support tails filed flush and the inside of the other mainframe with the positioning wire in place before removal.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by mikemeg

[Chas Levin]

23 hours ago, mikemeg said:

Before I launch into the 'blow by blow' of the B4 build, earlier in this tread I referred to scratch building some NER / LNER lineside fencing, though I never did illustrate this build with any pictures. This was due to my losing the photo editor (an old Adobe product) from the very old laptop which I use for editing and storing my photos and which is also the system I use for accessing RMWeb. Anyway, that loss has now been made good - as if by magic - by the appearance, on this old laptop, of a much more current and far more capable photo/video editor courtesy of Microsoft, so normal service can be resumed on the thread.

 

So the lineside fencing. First thing to say is that I wanted this fencing to be removable from the layout baseboards so that it would escape damage if and when the layout baseboards are moved. Second thing to say is that I wanted to use wood rather than plasticard microstrip to model this wooden fencing. Third thing to say is that because I used wood, then rather than paint the finished fencing I could 'dye' the fencing using a water based paint very heavily diluted which would give that variation in colour and texture.

 

So the basic material is 1mm balsa, which came in sheets 4" x 4". These sheets were cut into strips approx. 2mm deep for the posts and 1.3 mm deep for the rails. For the posts, two layers were stuck together, producing strips 2 mm square, which were then each filed back to around 1.6 mm square.

 

In total some 360 posts 24mm long (deliberately over sized but mounted to produce a 14mm fence height) were cut and some 450 fencing rail sections, each around 1.3 mm deep. The hardboard fence support pieces, which were cut to match the depth of the baseboard sides and which were of varying lengths, were then fitted with various paper and cardboard formers to mark out the fence post positions and carry various other data items.

 

Anyway the fencing was then assembled, using very fine tweezers, a magnifying glass, PVA and Evo-stik adhesives. One of the most tedious modelling jobs I have ever done - the whole 27 feet of fencing took nearly a month to produce - but the results seem to warrant the time and tedium.

 

So, in a nutshell, that is the scratch built lineside fencing. Hopefully the photo sequence will help to explain the process. The final photo shows eight of the total of twelve sections produced. The green painted areas, lightly flocked, are intended to cover the white paper used for marking out the fencing, when the sections are fitted to the baseboards and to identify the baseboard section and position. All of the paper and card sections are hidden when the fencing boards are fitted.

 

Anyway, the diversion from the loco building is, for the time being, complete, so now for the B4 and a whole different set of challenges!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

I would thoroughly agree that it was worth the effort Mike (though I hesitate to say it as I wasn't the one who put in the work!): that fencing looks superbly realistic, wonderful job!

[mikemeg]

On 19/01/2023 at 14:28, Chas Levin said:

I would thoroughly agree that it was worth the effort Mike (though I hesitate to say it as I wasn't the one who put in the work!): that fencing looks superbly realistic, wonderful job!

 

Thanks Chas,

 

In between doing the B4, I'm now attaching these fencing sections to the layout. Looking over the model fencing does take me back, sixty five or so years, to a young lad and his youthful mates, leaning on the railway fence on a warm, summer Saturday and just watching a seemingly never ending procession of trains.

 

I guess it's one of the advantages of modelling a real location that the model invokes so many memories of a time and place, now 2/3 of a century ago, yet still vividly recalled. 

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER B4

 

Having now further explored the instructions and made a start on the locomotive chassis, I'm in a little bit of a quandry as to how much and what to say about this kit, given that it is no longer in production.

 

First thing to say is that the kit was designed to be built to P4 or EM gauges, there being no provision for 'OO' in any of the etched parts requiring 'spacing'.

 

Second thing to say is that certainly, this is one of the most comprehensively detailed kits that I've ever seen. On the chassis, alone, there are some 236 separately referenced parts, and this does not include any duplication of 'spacer' parts with P4 and EM alternatives. There are also some 25 common items referenced (rod, tube, wire, etc).

 

The instruction set is a veritable masterpiece of 'step by step' description of the assembly of this kit, with numerous diagrams illustrating positional arrangements of various parts.

 

In reading the instructions and after having built any number of Arthur Kimber's kits, I was intrigued that I couldn't find any reference, in the instructions,  to matching the spacing of the axle horn blocks to the spacing of the journals in the coupling rods using a chassis jig. The kit is etched for and does contain six horn blocks from Markits.

 

Checking the cut outs in the mainframes, against these horn blocks they were all a tight fit but with only the lightest of filing (two or three strokes) of a fine needle file, the horn blocks all moved very sweetly within their mainframe cut outs. I assume, therefore, that the coupling rod journal spacing is exactly matched to the spacing of these mainframe cut outs.

 

Anyway, after pressing out the rivets in the ashpan (36 on each side) and then assembling and locating the ashpan and after checking and fitting the various mainframe stretchers and firebox, cab and smokebox support plates, I now have an assembled chassis and can now move on to assembling the cylinders. I did omit one of the prototype mainframe stretchers, which is more cosmetic than structurally necessary, so as to avoid any conflict with anything (final drive gear wheel) fitted to the centre driving axle, though this can be retro fitted if necessary.

 

Many of the parts, which are fitted to the mainframes, are located using 0.3 mm holes, both in the part and in the mainframes, into which 0.3 mm wires can be used as guides for locating and lining up such parts. Instead of using wire, I used a couple of very small broaches - small enough to fit into a 0.3 mm hole - to do this lining up. This I find much easier than using wire though one is obviously left with these small holes in the mainframes. 

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by mikemeg

[JohnBateson]

Good morning Mike,

I do remember the discussions about the LNER 4-6-0s, initially during Committee meetings in London, where I, perhaps not understanding the size of the problem, made the comment "why not make all of them?" At the time I meant the GCR engines, but at a later date there was also a conversation in a car park at Wakefield in which I believe you indicated that all the LNER 4-6-0s could be achieved. That conversation ended as a 'car-boot sale' I think!

I also recall you saying that these kits were not for the faint-hearted.

 

In your earlier post a slight typo, this kit is the 8F not the 8K (which is a 2-8-0 somebody else was later working on).

 

As a CAD design, I believe that chassis jigs should not be necessary, although their value for both older kits and those where the builder decides to produce his or her own spacers is inestimable. I also like to design slightly on the tight side. This is for two reasons, the first of which is beyond the control of the designer. This is the etching process issue. From run to run there is often a difference in the process, very slight, but noticeable, where the cusp formed by the process may cause some tightness if under-cooked or some looseness if over-cooked. Ths accoounts for the slight tightness on things like the Markits Hornblocks.

The secon reason stems from the first. It is always possible to open out a tight hole or slot, fixing a loose hole or slot may result in some inaccuracy. This is the best thing about CAD designs, they can be accurate to several places of decimals, which again goes back to the question of the need for a chassis jig.

 

Cylinders.

Drawing 5 on Page 15 of the instructions is incorrect - well not exactly incorrect - but better if the circular supports are between the cross pieces, since it gives slight more room to fit the cylinder covers.

 

 

I enclose a picture one of my earlier test builds with some later modifications. You will note that I have chopped off the top under the smoke box. This gets around an issue of fitting the chassis to the body. The chopped off part the is solder up as part of the body, between the smokebox and the platform. This has the effect that the shape of the smokebox is easier to finish.

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by JohnBateson
Lost the text and could not orient the pictures

[mikemeg]

Hi John,

 

Good to hear from you and many thanks for the comments. From a rather tentative beginning, while I assimilate your design and engineering methods, I think I'm now making reasonable progress. I'm just completing the internals of the cylinders so too late to implement the modification referred to above.

 

I still stand by my comment that this kit is not for the faint-hearted though that isn't, nor ever was, a criticism. As I think I've said, the design, engineering, packaging and the instructions are just superb.

 

I do intend to fit the internal valve gear and for that valve gear to work; well that's the plan. Anyway, many thanks for your posting and I'll keep posting the progress.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by mikemeg