Driving standards

[Reorte]

28 minutes ago, JDW said:

 

Overall, I'd suggest it's easier to see to park by driving in forwards, not that it's easier to park forwards - though I do accept that in a sawtooth car park like that with spaces at 45 degrees, where driving in and reversing out is how it's designed to work, then parking forwards is a lot easier than in a 90-degree space!

 

I said that because driving forwards is easier than backwards, and reversing in means going backwards in the area where there's less space; reversing out and you're reversing in to a more open area.

 

However the difference is arguably moot since anyone with a driving licence should be perfectly capable of reversing in too.

 

Another consideration in parking, and in car park design, is whether or not people are likely to need easy access to the boot. I'm sure there have been stories in this thread about people neatly reversing in to a space against a wall then returning to their car with the length of timber they've bought...

Edited January 5, 2022 by Reorte

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, 5944 said:

It's an appalling car park,

It certainly is,  It's reason I have to buy a resident's parking permit just to park in the street outside my house!

 

I feel sorry for the commuters who have to try and get out of Station Approach at the T junction onto Walsworth Road.  One trainload hasn't cleared before the next train arrives in the evening rush hour.

 

I remember an earlier layout of that car park which had entrance/exit lights controlled by a system that must have been designed by a trainee signal engineer and I never fully understood what was there.  I wish I'd drawn a signalbox diagram of that before they completely redesigned it.  As the access was too narrow for cars entering and leaving at the same time to pass each other, it was possible for cars to get deadlocked, and so there was even a backing signal so that one of them could reverse out!

[Nick C]

4 hours ago, Reorte said:

Cue lots of cars banged against each other. It's easier to park driving in forwards. Yes, harder to see where you're going getting out, but plenty of people are unfortunately lousy at reversing.

Never understood that argument. If someone screws up reversing in, the worst they can do is dent a couple of cars. If they screw up reversing out, they could kill a passing pedestrian. 

[eastglosmog]

5 minutes ago, Nick C said:

Never understood that argument. If someone screws up reversing in, the worst they can do is dent a couple of cars. If they screw up reversing out, they could kill a passing pedestrian. 

According to the statistics given in Quarry safety training, reverse parking is safer than front parking for this reason.  Most quarries and mines insist on reverse parking.

[PhilJ W]

I always reverse park wherever possible. The one exception is in a local supermarket where the parking bays are on the small side. If there are two cars either side of an empty bay reverse parked I will forward park leaving more space on my drivers side to make it easier to enter and leave the car. The same applies when I park between two cars forward parked only I reverse park making space on the drivers side.

[PhilJ W]

5 hours ago, Nick C said:

Why do people design car parks in which it's impossible to park properly? Do them 45 degrees the other way, and you'd be reversing in instead of reversing out, which is much safer.

 

5 hours ago, 30801 said:

 

I think the same bloke did aeroplane seats and my driveway...

And the seats in modern trains.

[big jim]

I always reverse park as it’s the network rail, and pretty much all other terminal or site I visits way.
 

 thing is it’s force of habit now and I do it in supermarkets then realise I can’t get the trolley to the boot to unload! 

[Reorte]

47 minutes ago, Nick C said:

Never understood that argument. If someone screws up reversing in, the worst they can do is dent a couple of cars. If they screw up reversing out, they could kill a passing pedestrian. 

 Need to take in to account the likelihood of both rather than just "it might happen." And the type of people you're talking about - are the people you're persuading to reverse in (if it's not just "because the rules say so") also the type of people who'd be careful enough reversing out that the danger is negligible?

 

Also how many cases are there where the pedestrian really should've been more aware of their surroundings? Sure, we've all got a responsibility to avoid people doing something stupid but I really don't like people getting told to change their behaviour thanks to the stupidity of others. Before anyone starts I'm not saying everyone hit by a car leaving a parking space (how many anyway?) is stupid.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Reorte

[APOLLO]

Reverse parking was mandatory at one place I worked. I reverse park wherever possible.

 

Brit15

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Reorte said:

 Need to take in to account the likelihood of both rather than just "it might happen." And the type of people you're talking about - are the people you're persuading to reverse in (if it's not just "because the rules say so") also the type of people who'd be careful enough reversing out that the danger is negligible?

 

For bonus points I got to knock on the back window of a car reversing at me out of a space across the zebra crossing I was on at the time (Tesco car park)

[eastglosmog]

Statistics from research done on the forward/reverse parking problem definitely show it safer using reverse parking.  However, the research was undertaken quite a few years ago and I do not know how the now common presence of proximity beepers and rear view cameras would affect the results.  I certainly find the rear view camera extremely helpful, both for reversing in and out and the beepers pick up stray dogs and children very effectively, both front and rear.

[APOLLO]

 

Brit15

[stewartingram]

When I joined the local Police *(as a civilian & having to drive Police vehicles) I had to take a driving test by the local Police Driving instructor. It was emphasised to me, strongly, that you should ALWAYS reverse park, (as per the Highway Code), so that you come out forwards. Something that I always have done - since1983! I find it so much simpler. No problem getting to the boot in Tesco either, I simply walk down the side of the car (or the next one). I also now have reverse bleepers; they help, but I used to manage without them before.

[F-UnitMad]

I reverse park out of habit, formed by 25 years of truck driving. This was because a) a lot of goods are unloaded through the back doors, and b) if you can back an articulated truck into a space, then you can drive out. It's not always the case the other way round.

It does drive SWMBO up the wall though when I go to back into a space in a supermarket car park. "How am I supposed to get the shopping in the boot?" is her default line of reasoning.

 

Edit; the best hour's entertainment I ever had at work was one summer Friday at Toddington M1 northbound services. The truck park there is a 'reverse in herringbone' pattern. There was lots of holiday getaway traffic, & caravanners have to use the truck park at motorway services.

In that hour, not one single caravanner could reverse into a space in one go       and some really managed to get tied in knots attempting it. There really should be a seperate driving test for towing caravans.

Edited January 5, 2022 by F-UnitMad

[leopardml2341]

32 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

There really should be a seperate driving test for towing caravans.

There used to be a separate test for driving articulated buses, presumably for the same reasons. 

[Compound2632]

Interesting. I was taught to always reverse in except in a supermarket car park, for convenience in loading. As these days I usually go to the supermarket on quiet weekday mornings, it's usually possible to pick a space with plenty of empty spaces around it and even drive out forwards. The other place I don't reverse park is at home, having a drive that is barely a car-length long and front gardens laid to grass or block paving, with a good clear view up and down the road.

[PhilJ W]

32 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

I reverse park out of habit, formed by 25 years of truck driving. This was because a) a lot of goods are unloaded through the back doors, and b) if you can back an articulated truck into a space, then you can drive out. It's not always the case the other way round.

It does drive SWMBO up the wall though when I go to back into a space in a supermarket car park. "How am I supposed to get the shopping in the boot?" is her default line of reasoning.

 

Edit; the best hour's entertainment I ever had at work was one summer Friday at Toddington M1 northbound services. The truck park there is a 'reverse in herringbone' pattern. There was lots of holiday getaway traffic, & caravanners have to use the truck park at motorway services.

In that hour, not one single caravanner could reverse into a space in one go       and some really managed to get tied in knots attempting it. There really should be a seperate driving test for towing caravans.

My BiL and my sister were keen caravaners. My BiL had no trouble reversing the caravan, he was an LGV driver anyway. A few years ago I drove a Transit 18 seater a couple of times and that was easier to reverse than my (small) car. The reason was that using the mirrors I could see the rear corners from the driving seat. My car is basically egg shaped and anything below the window line is not visible.

[62613]

On 02/01/2022 at 10:45, peanuts said:

regular things observed whilst driving a hgv on motorway 

 

car in lane one gaining on fellow hgv  obliviously carrys on untill last second brake lights indicator then try to scramble into lane two  amongst all the drivers who are switched on and observing the road around them .

 

continue to gain on said hgv my self look for gap to go around  indicate and suddenly half of lane two find  that extra bit of speed eventualy able to move over make my way past observe 3-5 cars behind me with an empty lane three move back to lane one and they all pass at a steady two miles faster than me . 

That's me !

 

[62613]

9 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

There are accident black spots where they often loose control & there's even a road sign ... Beware of low flying motor bikes

 

Fell out of my pram laughing at that!

[peanuts]

37 minutes ago, 62613 said:

That's me !

 

i know bro i have the mental scars 

[JDW]

If you're reversing into a space, you're generally reversing into a much more controlled area, and one which you can look into before you start your manoeuvre. You're also usually turning, so can look through the side or rear window at the space you're going into. Reversing out means your view left and right into an area where there are vehicle and pedestrian movements is obstructed by the cars alongside, and you can't see in some cases until a large part of your car is already out into the roadway. It won't always work like that, but I think in most cases that would hold true.

 

I've also heard an argument that where its mandatory in workplace car parks, for example, it's also because you're more awake and alert at the start of your shift, and often in a rush to leave at the end, so the more taxing manoeuvre is at the start of the day when you arrive, and at the end you can drive out looking where you're going.

 

And yes, it's correct that you don't need a separate licence for an articulated bus. I'm sure I've said it here before, but I find it a strange irony that I can drive an 18.75-metre articulated bus (and can do it spectacularly well, if I do say so myself!), but can't drive a 12-metre coach with a luggage trailer, or even a car with a large trailer. Even more amusing, I could even tow an articulated bus with a recovery truck. But not a trailer with my car. (I believe I'm also right in saying that in countries where they are permitted, I could drive a 21-metre artic such as the Mercedes-Benz CapaCity) or a double-artic on the same licence, though there may be other training requirements for the latter, especially as many of the ones in Europe are trolleybuses)

Edited January 6, 2022 by JDW
Typo

[SamThomas]

I'm pretty certain that you could drive an articulated bus on a standard PCV licence if the driving wheels were the rearmost set therefore pushing, but you needed an additional PCV test if the driving wheels were the centre ones which pushed & pulled, similar to a 12m coach with a luggage trailer in configeration.

 

Some weird old qualifications.

 

Many years ago if you passed your HGV test in a 3-axel rigid that also qailified you to drive a "wagon & drag" with an A-Frame trailer but not an artic.

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by SamThomas
the inevitable typos

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, 62613 said:

Fell out of my pram laughing at that!

Yeah, the old ones are the best

[JDW]

Just now, SamThomas said:

I'm pretty certain that you could drive an articulated bus on a standard PCV licence if the driving wheels were the rearmost set therefore pushing, but you needed an additional PCV test if the driving wheels were the centre ones which pushed & pulled, similar to a 12m coach with a luggage trailer in configeration.

 

Some weird old qualifications.

 

Many years ago if you passed your HGV test in a 3-axel ridgid that also qailified you to drive a "wagon & drag" with an A-Frame trailer but not an artic.

 

 

That may have been the case when the things were new-fangled foreign inventions, but last time I checked the rule was that regardless of where the engine (or driven wheels in the case of battery-electric, hydrogen or trolleybuses, many of which can be specified with two electric drive axles) is, the test for whether it is a trailer is "can the vehicle be uncoupled and operate separately". Whereas a HGV with semi-trailer or drawbar trailer can uncouple and the front part be driven in its own right in normal operation, a bendybus, even with motor and drive axle in the front section, could not be separated without the use of workshop facilities*.

 

*technically it could move around so long as items such as the fuel tank were also in the front section, but it couldn't in any meaningful sense be used or driven in such a state.

[Jonboy]

6 hours ago, JDW said:

And yes, it's correct that you don't need a separate licence for an articulated bus. I'm sure I've said it here before, but I find it a strange irony that I can drive an 18.75-metre articulated bus (and can do it spectacularly well, if I do say so myself!), but can't drive a 12-metre coach with a luggage trailer, or even a car with a large trailer. Even more amusing, I could even tow an articulated bus with a recovery truck. But not a trailer with my car. 

 

The BE license rules changed last month so larger trailers are available to anyone with training recommended rather than compulsory - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rules-for-towing-a-trailer-or-caravan-with-a-car-from-autumn-2021 .

Whether this will usher in a new type of transit van and trailer combo for delivery companies needs to be seen I guess.