Driving standards

[Titan]

12 hours ago, Reorte said:

This is the point - sometimes things simply don't seem to register with people; the problem isn't that they're not sufficiently visible. There's a well-known example (not driving related) where people are asked to count the number of passes made in a video of a basketball game (think it was that, that sort of idea at any rate). And afterwards they were asked - what about the guy in a gorilla suit who came running on to the pitch? A significant number of people never even noticed him, with their concentration on counting the passes.

 

DRLs have been around on a large proportion of cars for several years now, the difference should be there in the numbers although as always it'll be hard to pick out from other factors.

 

It is, but this will have been examined through careful study.   I wonder what the results of the basketball game would have been if they repeated the exercise with the gorilla wearing bright lights on his ankles and wrists? 

[boxbrownie]

7 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

They used something called U2 batteries when I had a push bike.

Did the push bikes have pedals back then? 

[boxbrownie]

11 minutes ago, Titan said:

 

It is, but this will have been examined through careful study.   I wonder what the results of the basketball game would have been if they repeated the exercise with the gorilla wearing bright lights on his ankles and wrists? 

Careful you may have gained some statistics regarding human observation. 

[jcm@gwr]

3 minutes ago, Titan said:

 

It is, but this will have been examined through careful study.   I wonder what the results of the basketball game would have been if they repeated the exercise with the gorilla wearing bright lights on his ankles and wrists? 

 

He would have been more visible, and probably noticed.

But if all the players had been wearing them as well, then he'll just blend in again!

[Izzy]

I do think one simple effective measure I would like to see that is in force in Australia, where I encountered it, is only being able to stop/park on the nearside facing the direction of travel. This is 24/7.

 

A particular bugbear of mine is those who stop/park on the offside with their headlights blazing, probably because they are on auto. 

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

I do think one simple effective measure I would like to see that is in force in Australia, where I encountered it, is only being able to stop/park on the nearside facing the direction of travel. This is 24/7.

 

A particular bugbear of mine is those who stop/park on the offside with their headlights blazing, probably because they are on auto. 

Per Highway Code :

 

 

Rule 248

You MUST NOT park on a road at night facing against the direction of the traffic flow unless in a recognised parking space.

 

Maximum fines range from £1000 for cars to £2500 for goods vehicles

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

I do think one simple effective measure I would like to see that is in force in Australia, where I encountered it, is only being able to stop/park on the nearside facing the direction of travel. This is 24/7.

 

A particular bugbear of mine is those who stop/park on the offside with their headlights blazing, probably because they are on auto. 

 

7 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Per Highway Code :

 

 

Rule 248

You MUST NOT park on a road at night facing against the direction of the traffic flow unless in a recognised parking space.

 

Maximum fines range from £1000 for cars to £2500 for goods vehicles

It is an offence to park facing the traffic with your headlights on, designated parking place or not..

Edited January 16, 2022 by PhilJ W

[Reorte]

31 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Per Highway Code :

 

 

Rule 248

You MUST NOT park on a road at night facing against the direction of the traffic flow unless in a recognised parking space.

 

Maximum fines range from £1000 for cars to £2500 for goods vehicles

And that was one of the questions I got asked on my test. Apparently all of my instructor's pupils did, because his wife always parks on the wrong side...

[Reorte]

3 hours ago, jcm@gwr said:

 

He would have been more visible, and probably noticed.

But if all the players had been wearing them as well, then he'll just blend in again!

True on the blend in thing - but "again"? It's not as if a gorilla suit blends in well!

 

This is the video:

 

[leopardml2341]

15 hours ago, jcm@gwr said:

 

Trouble is, that bright lights stand out, until every car has them, then the effect is diminished,

and the advantage lost!

A bit like hi-viz clothing.......

[craneman]

44 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

 

It is an offence to park facing the traffic with your headlights on, designated parking place or not..

 

As far as I know in this country it is still an offence to have your headlamps on when stationary unless you are stationary in traffic. I accept that it is possible that ECE harmonisation may have changed this, but if it is still the case it is interesting that virtually all cars with automatic headlights are set up to break the law.

 

On the subject of the abhorrent DRLs, it is my experience as the owner several vehicles none of which have DRLs that I have become almost invisible even in full daylight under clear conditions. Having DRLs on the majority of cars now has made the roads many times more dangerous for legitimate road users who do not have DRLs, or indeed those road users who do not have lights at all. It is, in effect, the continuation of the dangerous dumbing down of the task of driving which has allowed people with no skill, awareness, or sense of responsibility at all to drive. No longer at a junction do they have to have a good look around and assess the situation, they mere glance for lights and if there are none then it must be OK to pull out. My personal (and politically incorrect) view is that if someone is too stupid to know when and how to turn their lights on, then they shouldn't be driving, and that mandating lights all the time is not the answer.

 

I am also personally very sceptical of rear fog lights, an absurd concept which treats the symptoms not the root cause of a problem (problem - people drive far in excess of the speed which allows them to stop in the distance they can see to be clear, especially in poor weather; the solution should not just be to stick a bright red light on the back thereby making it far less likely that the car behind will notice brake lights coming on (in turn leading to high level brake lights) and making the judgement of distance much harder). It is also very evident that most modern drivers are incapable of reasoning when it might be useful to turn the RF lights on and when they are nothing but a nuisance - how many times have you followed someone with their RFL on in traffic, when it should be blindingly obvious to them it isn't remotely useful? 

 

As long as technology and legislation makes it easier for inept people to drive, driving standards will fall, as certainly as night following day. If you really wanted to improve driving standards you'd fit every car with a sharp spike in the centre of the steering wheel so that even minor accidents became unsurvivable for the driver, and driving standards would improve almost overnight (for that avoidance of doubt, I am not advocating this as a course of action, merely as a line of thought).

[Guest]

1 hour ago, craneman said:

I am also personally very sceptical of rear fog lights, an absurd concept which treats the symptoms not the root cause of a problem (problem - people drive far in excess of the speed which allows them to stop in the distance they can see to be clear, 

 

Indeed. For extra safety we should remove all forms of lighting. 

[johnd]

1 minute ago, 30801 said:

 

Indeed. For extra safety we should remove all forms of lighting. 

Including front fog lamps which some drivers use as a fashion accessory or because they cannot see beyond the range of them which means a visit to an optician is required as if they need these lights on as reading a number plate at the required distance is something they cannot do !

[Guest]

Just now, johnd said:

Including front fog lamps which some drivers use as a fashion accessory

 

If they made them standard fit as part of mandated lighting it would be fine. 

But they add them as a little symbol that you bought the slightly higher spec version of your car. 

[Dunsignalling]

I always turn off the rear fog light as soon as another vehicle gets close behind, I know how annoying they can be when left on unnecessarily and so, presumably does everybody else on the road! It only takes a push on the switch, after all.

 

Why I seem to one of a tiny minority that does so somewhat mystifies me, (but maybe it shouldn't).

 

For new cars, why they can't be fitted with a timer like heated rear screens so they switch off automatically after ten or fifteen minutes, with a warning on the "dashboard telly" that its happened so it can be reactivated if it's still needed? Either that or a sensor that detects the headlamps of a following vehicle within (say) 25m and does the same.

 

John

Edited January 16, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Jonboy]

Just showed the basketball video to the wife unprompted and she completely missed the gorilla.

[kevinlms]

4 hours ago, Izzy said:

I do think one simple effective measure I would like to see that is in force in Australia, where I encountered it, is only being able to stop/park on the nearside facing the direction of travel. This is 24/7.

Except on one way streets, where parking MAY be allowed on both sides.

 

The parking fine (not that I've ever had one for parking on the wrong side), is something like 'parking too far from the left hand kerb' - yes, by the whole road width!

[D860 VICTORIOUS]

Craneman makes several valid points,the "dumbing down" of driving being a prime example.

I'm not anti-technological advances by any stretch,but are we all so helpless nowadays that cars are fitted with rain-sensing wipers,lights that come on when driving under the smallest of bridges,and,in my view,unnecessary DRL's? if drivers don't have the common sense to work out themselves when wipers and lights are required,should they be on the road? Then again,manufacturers fit these things as gimmicks and I expect some drivers think they're a must-have. What is really a must-have when driving any motor vehicle is concentration,awareness,anticipation and consideration. Of course,for the type of driver who checks their phone,turns away from looking at the road to speak to their passenger,or adoringly flicks their hair around while looking in the r/v mirror,these qualities may be the least of their concerns.

I'm not faultless on the road,but I have 30-plus years of HGV work under my belt,and it's a bit depressing to see the behaviour of some road users.

Neil

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

Either that or a sensor that detects the headlamps of a following vehicle within (say) 25m and does the same.

 

Slightly the opposite but someone (Garmin?) make a rear bike lamp fitted with radar. If a car approaches quickly it flashes brighter and more quickly.

 

Edit:

It was Garmin. https://www.cyclingweekly.com/reviews/lights-reflectives/garmin-varia-rtl515-rear-light

Edited January 16, 2022 by 30801

[boxbrownie]

What some people tend to ignore or choose when commenting upon auto wipers is that fact that the turning on of the wipers is not the helpful bit what’s the useful part is the fact they sense how much rain and adjust the speed and or intermittent wipe periods.

 

Yes of course a driver can adjust the speed himself but then it takes a little bit of concentration off the road while he adjusts the intermittent speed or speed of the wipe, no one can argue that’s not the useful part.

 

On the other hand auto dip lighting I find annoying and just not predictable, fast or clever enough either before or after an approaching vehicle passes, usually before they stay on just a bit too long and after they stay off too long meaning your driving on dipped beam in an unlit road for just a second or two too long.

[JDW]

Definitely agree with the comments on not turning fog lights off, or turning them on for a bif of mist. I can't figure out how the logic works. You're on a busy dual carriageway, you can still see six cars spaced out ahead of you at 50mph, yet you feel visibility is so poor the car behind might now see you? All it does is blind the following car, and make brake lights less obvious depending where the fog lights are. 

 

I find some modern car lights genuinely abysmally designed though - so many seem to have the indicator tucked inside a DRL which makes it almost invisible from some/many angles. Same with some rear lights. No matter what the stylists want, I just don't understand why anyone would design them or approve them like that.

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

On the other hand auto dip lighting I find annoying and just not predictable, fast or clever enough either before or after an approaching vehicle passes, usually before they stay on just a bit too long and after they stay off too long meaning your driving on dipped beam in an unlit road for just a second or two too long.

What gets me is people put super bright lamps in their high beam, which is probably great for driving in properly dark areas. But what happens when they need to switch to dipped headlights, it must be like they have just turned off the lights completely!

[PhilJ W]

27 minutes ago, JDW said:

Definitely agree with the comments on not turning fog lights off, or turning them on for a bif of mist. I can't figure out how the logic works. You're on a busy dual carriageway, you can still see six cars spaced out ahead of you at 50mph, yet you feel visibility is so poor the car behind might now see you? All it does is blind the following car, and make brake lights less obvious depending where the fog lights are. 

 

I find some modern car lights genuinely abysmally designed though - so many seem to have the indicator tucked inside a DRL which makes it almost invisible from some/many angles. Same with some rear lights. No matter what the stylists want, I just don't understand why anyone would design them or approve them like that.

Many cars today have the front indicators mounted in such a way as they can't easily be seen from one side of the car. For example if you are approaching a side turning on your right and a car is turning right the indicator is not visible until you are at the junction. OK if its a T junction as its your right of way but if its a mini roundabout you have to take care as its the other drivers right of way. Fords seem to be the worst offender for this.

25 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

What gets me is people put super bright lamps in their high beam, which is probably great for driving in properly dark areas. But what happens when they need to switch to dipped headlights, it must be like they have just turned off the lights completely!

Many headlamps seem excessively bright, even on dipped beam.

Edited January 16, 2022 by PhilJ W

[mozzer models]

the other thing is with newer dash dispaly is there all led etc & lit all the time so as it gets dark as the driver can see his dash so foget to switch the cars lights on until there om a unlit road

[leopardml2341]

What gets me is people driving on high beam who seem oblivious (i.e. don't react) to a momentary flash of lights from an oncoming  driver as an indicator that they will soon dazzle them.

 

Just where are they looking?