Driving standards

[PhilJ W]

2 minutes ago, leopardml2341 said:

What gets me is people driving on high beam who seem oblivious (i.e. don't react) to a momentary flash of lights from an oncoming  driver as an indicator that they will soon dazzle them.

 

Just where are they looking?

Not where they are going obviously.

[leopardml2341]

4 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Many headlamps seem excessively bright, even on dipped beam.

Many are badly adjusted by either:

1. Incorrect setting of the adjustable control or
2. The result of not fitting a replacement lamp correctly

Why don't/can't they see that something is not right, my clue of holding my hand in front of the interior rear view mirror doesn't seem to help em out either.  Their excuse can't be that they can't see my anti dazzle gesture, because their lights are clearly illuminating the whole of the interior of my car.

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, JDW said:

 

 

I find some modern car lights genuinely abysmally designed though - so many seem to have the indicator tucked inside a DRL which makes it almost invisible from some/many angles. Same with some rear lights. No matter what the stylists want, I just don't understand why anyone would design them or approve them like that.

If the DI is incorporated within the DRL housing then the DRL must dim or turn off while the DI is operating.

 

What does make direction indicators almost invisible are those that are “wrapped” inside the rear lamp, some rear brake lights are so bright it is impossible to see the DI flashing while the car is braking, no legislation for that particular issue.

[boxbrownie]

43 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Many cars today have the front indicators mounted in such a way as they can't easily be seen from one side of the car. For example if you are approaching a side turning on your right and a car is turning right the indicator is not visible until you are at the junction. OK if its a T junction as its your right of way but if its a mini roundabout you have to take care as its the other drivers right of way. Fords seem to be the worst offender for this.

 

But all vehicles must have side repeater DIs which nowadays are usually within the side mirror housings (it’s easier that way for wiring loom cost) so you should be able to see them, of course the US actually mandate front and rear side reflectors at the corners of the vehicle.

[boxbrownie]

44 minutes ago, mozzer models said:

the other thing is with newer dash dispaly is there all led etc & lit all the time so as it gets dark as the driver can see his dash so foget to switch the cars lights on until there om a unlit road

Good idea to have auto lights then? 

[PhilJ W]

1 minute ago, boxbrownie said:

But all vehicles must have side repeater DIs which nowadays are usually within the side mirror housings (it’s easier that way for wiring loom cost) so you should be able to see them, of course the US actually mandate front and rear side reflectors at the corners of the vehicle.

Typical Ford cost cutting, why fit a repeater when the indicator can be moved to the side of the car.

 

[boxbrownie]

6 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Typical Ford cost cutting, why fit a repeater when the indicator can be moved to the side of the car.

 

It is legislation to have side repeaters, it is just now they tend to be within the side mirrors rather than the front fender side (sorry Americanism).

And not just Ford, just about every car now has them incorporated with the mirror housing, as I said it is cheaper and still passes legislation, in fact it could be argued it is a better position as most can also be seen from an oncoming vehicle as well, thus if the front DI fails there is still a forward facing DI working.

[Titan]

32 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

But all vehicles must have side repeater DIs which nowadays are usually within the side mirror housings (it’s easier that way for wiring loom cost) so you should be able to see them, of course the US actually mandate front and rear side reflectors at the corners of the vehicle.

 

You can't see them when someone is turning right at a mini roundabout as the one flashing is on the opposite side of the car, so you are not going to see them no matter how good they are!

[leopardml2341]

18 minutes ago, Titan said:

 

You can't see them when someone is turning right at a mini roundabout as the one flashing is on the opposite side of the car, so you are not going to see them no matter how good they are!

Assuming that drivers indicate at/on roundabouts.......

 

Or indicate left when leaving.

Edited January 16, 2022 by leopardml2341

[PhilJ W]

Its not helped by many drivers not positioning their cars properly when turning right. Taking to the centre of the lane rather than keeping over to the right.

[Mark Saunders]

13 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Its not helped by many drivers not positioning their cars properly when turning right. Taking to the centre of the lane rather than keeping over to the right.

Roundabout roulette!

 

Not helped by many councils not painting lane guidance! 
 

Amazing that Darlington can do it on one approach one way but not the other!

[jcredfer]

4 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

What some people tend to ignore or choose when commenting upon auto wipers is that fact that the turning on of the wipers is not the helpful bit what’s the useful part is the fact they sense how much rain and adjust the speed and or intermittent wipe periods.

 

Yes of course a driver can adjust the speed himself but then it takes a little bit of concentration off the road while he adjusts the intermittent speed or speed of the wipe, no one can argue that’s not the useful part.

 

On the other hand auto dip lighting I find annoying and just not predictable, fast or clever enough either before or after an approaching vehicle passes, usually before they stay on just a bit too long and after they stay off too long meaning your driving on dipped beam in an unlit road for just a second or two too long.

 

Auto-dip lighting??  How can that be at all legal??  So many oncoming drivers must have reason to really thank auto-dip, coming round a corner to face full headlights and waiting until the things dip, as opposed to a driver seeing the advancing loom and dipping, politely before the approaching car gets to round the corner.  Does it have any way of sensing the approach to the rear of a vehicle in front, travelling in the same direction??  Come to think of it, that also seems like something best left to the driver.

 

I wonder if the makers have considered how the litigation might go, should a driver be seen to have caused an accident, because of late dipped headlights?

 

Julian

 

 

Julian

 

[Reorte]

I wouldn't want auto-dip lighting; generally speaking I'm not keen on auto anything, but auto-dip lighting sounds like a recipe for chaos whenever it doesn't work properly. My car does have some auto stuff - auto lights on (don't really see the point of saving me a few seconds of effort, but at least it works reasonably well) and auto wipers (no intermittent setting, a PITA because that doesn't work very well in light spray or drizzle and I have to keep manually flicking them on and off).

Edited January 17, 2022 by Reorte

[kevinlms]

8 hours ago, jcredfer said:

 

Auto-dip lighting??  How can that be at all legal??  So many oncoming drivers must have reason to really thank auto-dip, coming round a corner to face full headlights and waiting until the things dip, as opposed to a driver seeing the advancing loom and dipping, politely before the approaching car gets to round the corner.  Does it have any way of sensing the approach to the rear of a vehicle in front, travelling in the same direction??  Come to think of it, that also seems like something best left to the driver.

 

I wonder if the makers have considered how the litigation might go, should a driver be seen to have caused an accident, because of late dipped headlights?

 

Julian

 

 

Julian

 

So how good are self-driving cars at correctly controlling switching off high beam? Or don't they need to use high beam at all because they use multiple detection means, including radar, so perhaps high beam might be a disadvantage to them?

 

Just curious, as I have no idea.

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, kevinlms said:

So how good are self-driving cars at correctly controlling switching off high beam? Or don't they need to use high beam at all because they use multiple detection means, including radar, so perhaps high beam might be a disadvantage to them?

 

Just curious, as I have no idea.

AIUI, there is already available technology (infra-red maybe, in certain Mercedes cars?) for drivers to "see" beyond the range of their headlights via a heads-up display, possibly negating the need for "main beams". I'd think its capability may (or soon will) extend to cutting through fog, too.

 

If sufficiently developed, such systems might reduce the role of lights to purely allowing other road users to see where your car is.

 

John

Edited January 17, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Enterprisingwestern]

18 hours ago, johnd said:

Including front fog lamps which some drivers use as a fashion accessory or because they cannot see beyond the range of them which means a visit to an optician is required as if they need these lights on as reading a number plate at the required distance is something they cannot do !

 

Cars have numberplates???!!!

 

Mike.

[JDW]

I've not got auto dipping lights but have driven a couple of cars with it and been pleasantly surprised how well it has worked, how quickly it has dipped them when another car comes the other way around a corner for example. 

 

I find auto wipers can be a blessing or a nuisance, depending on the situation. Sometimes they do exactly what I want/would do myself, other times they are either too keen or not keen enough. 

[Reorte]

28 minutes ago, JDW said:

I've not got auto dipping lights but have driven a couple of cars with it and been pleasantly surprised how well it has worked, how quickly it has dipped them when another car comes the other way around a corner for example. 

 

I find auto wipers can be a blessing or a nuisance, depending on the situation. Sometimes they do exactly what I want/would do myself, other times they are either too keen or not keen enough. 

The problem with these auto this and that is none of them do anything that's remotely a hassle to do manually.

[boxbrownie]

13 hours ago, Titan said:

 

You can't see them when someone is turning right at a mini roundabout as the one flashing is on the opposite side of the car, so you are not going to see them no matter how good they are!

What if you’re coming the other way? How could you not see the right hand mirror of a car coming towards you on a mini roundabout?  
 

Unless I have misunderstood your post?

[boxbrownie]

12 hours ago, jcredfer said:

 

Auto-dip lighting??  How can that be at all legal??  So many oncoming drivers must have reason to really thank auto-dip, coming round a corner to face full headlights and waiting until the things dip, as opposed to a driver seeing the advancing loom and dipping, politely before the approaching car gets to round the corner.  Does it have any way of sensing the approach to the rear of a vehicle in front, travelling in the same direction??  Come to think of it, that also seems like something best left to the driver.

 

I wonder if the makers have considered how the litigation might go, should a driver be seen to have caused an accident, because of late dipped headlights?

 

Julian

 

 

Julian

 

Yes it is legal, and the rest of your post really reinforces my post, I have not seen an auto dip that satisfies me as being fast enough to either dip or revert to main beam.

[Titan]

19 minutes ago, Reorte said:

The problem with these auto this and that is none of them do anything that's remotely a hassle to do manually.

 

On a lot of things yes, but I find that in light rain the intensity can vary from moment to moment, and as soon as I manage to get the appropriate delay on the wipers set for the prevailing conditions, the prevailing conditions change so I am almost constantly having to adjust the wipers either to stop them wiping an almost dry screen, or when the intensity increases so my view is not obscured between wipes. And that is on top of the manual intervention required when overtaking a lorry.  So having to make these constant alterations on top of concentrating on driving in less than ideal conditions is most definitely a hassle I would be glad to see the back of.

 

Trouble is the current cars that I have driven with this feature do not seem to be sufficiently good at it to avoid manual intervention anyway.

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

AIUI, there is already available technology (infra-red maybe, in certain Mercedes cars?) for drivers to "see" beyond the range of their headlights via a heads-up display, possibly negating the need for "main beams". I'd think its capability may (or soon will) extend to cutting through fog, too.

 

If sufficiently developed, such systems might reduce the role of lights to purely allowing other road users to see where your car is.

 

John

We were playing with infra Red night sight technology on Jaguars as part of the Prometheus project with the EU back in the 90’s……it wasn’t very good back then as we were using a very cheap version of a military type system.

 

The systems now are very good but I believe it still takes your concentration of the actual road you CAN see, I’d rather have decent lights than rely on the thing I might hit being infra-reflective…….somebody in a survival foil blanket won’t be 

[boxbrownie]

58 minutes ago, JDW said:

I've not got auto dipping lights but have driven a couple of cars with it and been pleasantly surprised how well it has worked, how quickly it has dipped them when another car comes the other way around a corner for example. 

 

I find auto wipers can be a blessing or a nuisance, depending on the situation. Sometimes they do exactly what I want/would do myself, other times they are either too keen or not keen enough. 

It is true the technology is getting better all the time, I think presently Mercedes with their multi beam headlamp tech to be a good system and fast as well. But too many just use an older tech sensor type and it’s just slow.

[boxbrownie]

8 minutes ago, Titan said:

 

On a lot of things yes, but I find that in light rain the intensity can vary from moment to moment, and as soon as I manage to get the appropriate delay on the wipers set for the prevailing conditions, the prevailing conditions change so I am almost constantly having to adjust the wipers either to stop them wiping an almost dry screen, or when the intensity increases so my view is not obscured between wipes. And that is on top of the manual intervention required when overtaking a lorry.  So having to make these constant alterations on top of concentrating on driving in less than ideal conditions is most definitely a hassle I would be glad to see the back of.

 

Trouble is the current cars that I have driven with this feature do not seem to be sufficiently good at it to avoid manual intervention anyway.

I must admit most systems I have experienced have been a bit hit and Miss but we have been pleasantly surprised by the i3 auto wipe as once set and without intervention performed perfectly, but oddly we had a loan 3 series when the i3 was in for service and you’d think it was a completely different system as it was useless!

Edited January 17, 2022 by boxbrownie

[Titan]

17 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

What if you’re coming the other way? How could you not see the right hand mirror of a car coming towards you on a mini roundabout?  
 

Unless I have misunderstood your post?

 

The situation is that you are approaching a mini or small roundabout, and there is a car approaching from the right. You can clearly see that he is not turning left as the left hand indicator is not flashing (or maybe he is but has not bothered to signal), but you cannot see his right hand  repeater because his car is in the way. The only indicator on that side that you might be able to see is the front right, but because of the design of the car, which may be a combination of the curvature of the car and indicator position, the right hand front indicator is not visible either.  Not a problem on older squarer cars where you can see both front indicators at almost any angle, but in this case you cannot see his signal at all.

 

I would think cars with repeaters in the mirror could also suffer the same depending on the position of mirror and the repeater in it.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Titan