Driving standards

[Coldgunner]

Wish I could click my fingers and make it go away for you. Sounds like a proper Mr and Mrs W Anchor you're dealing with. If there's not much recourse for criminal action, is there a route for civil?

[big jim]

I’ll just let the various authorities and agencies do what they need to do

 

 

 

[jcredfer]

1 hour ago, big jim said:

I’ll just let the various authorities and agencies do what they need to do

 

 

 

That's a very wise route to go down, as you remain as the "adult in the room" and can't possibly be accused of any provocation. 

 

The school is responsible for providing education for pupils who find normal schools challenging, so they will be very well aware of what the parents are doing to support / influence their child.  The actions they take will be noted by the School and will be taken into consideration by all the relevant authorities, from both the view of the pupil and also of the parent's behaviour.  Information will be considered from many sources, of which the School and yourselves will be two.  It would be totally inappropriate to speculate on the outcome of those many considerations, however, the information from you and the School will certainly be relevant in decisions which will be made.

 

I appreciate how much of a nuisance they have been and you have my every sympathy for the trouble it is causing you.  Please remember that the child and parents are already getting support from various authorities, who will be looking in detail at the circumstances and what support is needed.  They will be keen to ensure that those circumstances are in the best interests of the child and those others who may, also, be affected.  It may not be obvious, but, you will definitely be part of what they want to keep safe.

 

Best wishes

 

[big jim]

The thing is I feel sorry for the kid as it’s not his fault the parents are acting the way they are and their behaviour is  rubbing off or being forced onto him and his younger siblings as he appears to have no boundaries or discipline outside of the school gates 

 

I’ve put in my letter to the head that I personally feel there is no other viable option than to exclude the child and it’s been a difficult decision to have to even suggest it as every child deserves the education they need but as in this case I feel the parents think it’s their privilege which comes with a green light to treat others with utter contempt, they just needed to turn the music down when my wife asked (didn’t even have to apologise) and it would have been done with, nothing more said 

 

 

 

[Kris]

@big jim It might be worth asking your local council about making your street residential parking only, even if this is only for a few hours at specific times during each day. If you can get one put in place it is then possible to get the council to come out and enforce it. In the school I used to work in we would get regular justified complaints from the local residents about inconsiderate parking (never with the abuse you are getting however). I asked the council to come out and police the parking on a regular basis. They were more than happy to do this and as a school we were happy about the outcome. The message soon got round and the residents were happier. 

 

Unfortunately this would not be a quick process but might be worth it for the future. 

[big jim]

The thing is it’s not and has never been a parking issue (as the school thinks) I can’t stop anyone parking out front and haven’t got an issue with anyone doing so as long as they don’t block me in or make a nuisance of themselves  

 

Also and all of the latest incidents are happening as the car is in motion leaving the school carpark

[Reorte]

Besides, stopping them parking there just means they'll park somewhere else and inflict the same problems on someone else.

[big jim]

Had the headmaster report back regards the issues we had with the parent at the school

 

Long and short of it, put up or shut up

 

the school are going to request to the council that they put yellow lines outside my house as my car is in the way vehicles leaving the school, im banned from site and they have told me to take my CCTV down Or face legal action (I’d set up privacy blockers on the school but took them off while all this was ongoing!) 

 

They’re just laughing at us 

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by big jim

[Steadfast]

3 hours ago, big jim said:

Had the headmaster report back regards the issues we had with the parent at the school

 

Long and short of it, put up or shut up, they have gone to the police and filed a complaint that were intimidating them, she admits she told my wife to piss off though!

 

the school are going to request to the council that they put yellow lines outside my house as my car is in the way vehicles leaving the school, im banned from site and they have told me to take my CCTV down Or face legal action (I’d set up privacy blockers on the school but took them off while all this was ongoing!) 

 

They’re just laughing at us 

 

 

 

That's horrific Jim, I've been having a read of the last few pages and you have my sympathies with the situation. 

 

Unfortunately it seems a symptom of "entitled Britain" that those in the wrong cry loudest and become the "victim".

 

It's funny how companies that treat you like the school have soon change their tune when someone gets onto watchdog/ The One show etc with their complaint. Unfortunately I doubt that tactic would work for a school, especially with dealing with such a nasty individual who'd probably spout crap online turning them the victim and you the villain.

 

I hope you're in the day they add the yellow lines, so you can make sure they're long enough that the noise parks the other end of the street!

 

Are you in ASLEF? Wonder if the free legal advice is worth a punt?

 

Good luck

 

Jo

Edited September 21, 2023 by Steadfast

[Nick C]

That's horrible Jim, so sad to hear it. I hope you can continue to pursue it through other avenues? Police/Council etc?

 

As for the CCTV, you have a right to keep it there, as I understand it.

https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/domestic-cctv-systems/#:~:text=People have the right to,not illegal to do so.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/domestic-cctv-using-cctv-systems-on-your-property/domestic-cctv-using-cctv-systems-on-your-property

You have to comply with GDPR and DPA, but I believe both have specific exceptions for data required for prevention of crime - and harassment is a crime.

 

I'd also agree with @Steadfast, it's time to get professional legal advice. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Nick C

[big jim]

I’m giving aslef a ring tomorrow for a bit of advice, hopefully not need it but it’s a bit worrying, I know my conscience is clear though

 

regards the cctv I’ve reinstated the privacy blockers on the camera to block out the school (excuse the freecycle items on the drive!) 

 

 

 

 

 

[beast66606]

A couple of years ago my wife and I were at the local school (where we both worked) for a musical, when we came to leave a parent had blocked the exit road (within school grounds). I asked him to move politely a few times, he flatly refused, in the end I got so angry I explained in more basic terms that he should move - he did. On our way home - in my wifes car luckily for him as I have dashcams, she doesn't - we were nearly run off the road by him overtaking in a dangerous place. Without evidence the police weren't interested but he put a complaint in about my swearing, to cut the story short, he threatened me with the police and told the school he had dashcam footage - "get it then" I said as it will show what happened. The school never pursued him for this, they told us they weren't interested in the near collision as it was off school premises and they sided with his complaint and didn't renew my contract which was up a few days later, The school contradicted their own policy on complaints numerous times but as I was not a full time staff member ACAS, while agreeing with me, told me there was nothing I could do formally.

 

From my wifes experience and her colleagues in other schools it's apparent that schools wll always find on the parents side - even when they are in the wrong.

Edited September 21, 2023 by beast66606

[johnofwessex]

I suspect the bottom line is that in a dispute between the parent of a child at the school and a third party, schools probably take the view that they dont have any leverage against the parent or any particular interest in the issue that requires them to take action.

 

Clearly in @big jim case when the perp was making a lot of noise and/or swearing on school premises a staff member did ask them to quieten down as it was an issue that affected the school.

 

However if they should ever apply for any planning consent then issues like this may become very relevant.

 

 

[kevinlms]

A friend had a customer who refused to pay a bill. After attempting to get him to cough up, he got a friend to follow it up for him.

The friend had an old van, with some magnetic signs, marked DEBT COLLECTOR in large letters and parked outside the customers home and sat in it, with copies of the invoice. When the customer discovered what was parked outside, the police were called.

 

On arrival, the police checked the van details and it was all legit - Paid up registration, roadworthy and legally parked etc, so told the customer there was nothing they could do, as perfectly legal on all grounds. The sign wasn't offensive, so no grounds there - in fact truthful!

So this guy asked them what he could do - pay up, were their parting words, before they drove off! Of course the implication was now that if the vehicle was damaged, the police would have a fair idea of who! As for violence on the driver...

 

Apparently, within a couple of hours, the amount was paid in full!

 

So no need at all for anyone to do anything illegal, just cause embarrassment.

 

You just need an address.

[johnofwessex]

Thinking about it further, what IMHO the school SHOULD have done is 

 

1. Decided if there was an issue that they were going to get involved in - or not 

2. If they wernt going to get involved just say that, and

3. Dont take sides.

 

Dear Mr Big Jim,

 

Thank you for bringing the matter to our attention.

 

As the incident did not occur on school premises we are not able to take any action over it

 

In fact they have simply managed to wind up their neighbours

[hayfield]

15 hours ago, beast66606 said:

A couple of years ago my wife and I were at the local school (where we both worked) for a musical, when we came to leave a parent had blocked the exit road (within school grounds). I asked him to move politely a few times, he flatly refused, in the end I got so angry I explained in more basic terms that he should move - he did. On our way home - in my wifes car luckily for him as I have dashcams, she doesn't - we were nearly run off the road by him overtaking in a dangerous place. Without evidence the police weren't interested but he put a complaint in about my swearing, to cut the story short, he threatened me with the police and told the school he had dashcam footage - "get it then" I said as it will show what happened. The school never pursued him for this, they told us they weren't interested in the near collision as it was off school premises and they sided with his complaint and didn't renew my contract which was up a few days later, The school contradicted their own policy on complaints numerous times but as I was not a full time staff member ACAS, while agreeing with me, told me there was nothing I could do formally.

 

From my wifes experience and her colleagues in other schools it's apparent that schools wll always find on the parents side - even when they are in the wrong.

 

Twenty years ago we had an incident on the road which the golf club was on a private road, as the club was the oldest in south Herts members and the public parked there ever since cars had been invented, the owners of the road (a north London council) put up no parking signs and employed a parking company

 

Well one Sunday morning as usual we had our Sunday morning group of between 30 & 40 members, playing in the weekly swindle ( competition) which ended up in the bar afterwards, one of the players was late and parked on the road and after finishing his round found his car had been clamped, called the company who arrived and wanted an outrageous amount to free the car.

 

Well quite a few of the swindle all got their cars and ensured said parking van was blocked in and unable to move. The police were called and said they could see no breach of the peace was being caused by the golfers cars, and as it was on private land it was the responsibility of the parking company to sort out the parking issues, then one of the very helpful policemen noticed the parking van had a dodgy tyre. And hinted that when they returned in half an hour, if the van was still there they would inspect its roadworthy state and issue the relevant tickets

 

The wheel clamp was quickly removed, parking chaos ended and the parking company seemingly decided not to enforce parking rules over the weekends. 

Common-sense and civility was quickly restored and no further issues occurred

Edited September 22, 2023 by hayfield

[Peter Kazmierczak]

18 hours ago, big jim said:

I’m giving aslef a ring tomorrow for a bit of advice, hopefully not need it but it’s a bit worrying, I know my conscience is clear though

 

regards the cctv I’ve reinstated the privacy blockers on the camera to block out the school (excuse the freecycle items on the drive!) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

15 hours ago, beast66606 said:

From my wifes experience and her colleagues in other schools it's apparent that schools wll always find on the parents side - even when they are in the wrong.

Playing Devil's Advocate a bit. 

When I worked in schools we always tried to cultivate good relations with our neighbours. Parking was a pain with parents stopping across driveways etc. The number of times we put stuff in the weekly newsletter reminding them about it (and for the safety of the other children). Managed to have greater police/traffic warden presence at hometimes for a bit.

 

I feel for Jim and his wife. the situation should never got to his stage. 
1. His wife's initial contact with the school seemed reasonable to me. They should have taken her more seriously.

2. I think Jim made a misstep by going round in the way he did, but understandable. I can understand why they didn't like his attitude - zero tolerance and all that.

3. I assume the H/T put something in the newsletter about consideration to others etc when dropping off/picking up children. If they didn't they shoud have.

4. If the school were appearing ineffective, then the Chair of Governors should have been contacted for a meeting to air the issues. Did this happen? If not, another missed opportunity.

 

Sounds like the school is now in bunker mode, which is not helping anyone.

Jim, if you haven't contacted the Chair of Governors, then I suggest you do. Lines of communication need to be reopened again, especially as it's effecting your wife's health.

[big jim]

Thanks for that advice, your not the first person to mention the chair of governors i really don’t know which way to go forward with it until I hear what the police have to say

 

 

[08221]

Would definitely consider an approach to the chair of governors Jim. 

 

I was chair of governors at my childrens primary school several years ago. As part of our training we were told to foster good relationship with the local residents.

 

Good luck and look after yourselves.

 

 

[298]

I'm glad you've found it easy to escalate your concerns, our Daughters junior school does sweet FA apart from putting out a few signs on the zigzags, occasionally parking enforcement turns up or drives past in their Camera Car but with only one team being shared by 70 schools parents know they are likely to get away with it and go into full Gob$hite mode when they don't. Running a MoT &Tax check on these vehicles is sometimes interesting too...

 

Daughter is 10 and would really like to walk to and from school on her own but as we keep saying, it isn't her but other people who are the problem. I'm not sure how addled the brains are of these people but I couldn't comprehend the stress if driving the school run ten times a week, we see parents who live a lot nearer than our 0.5 mile walk and they aren't doing it to save time.

Edited September 22, 2023 by 298

[johnofwessex]

16 minutes ago, 298 said:

I'm glad you've found it easy to escalate your concerns, our Daughters junior school does sweet FA apart from putting out a few signs on the zigzags, occasionally parking enforcement turns up or drives past in their Camera Car but with only one team being shared by 70 schools parents know they are likely to get away with it and go into full Gob$hite mode when they don't. Running a MoT &Tax check on these vehicles is sometimes interesting too...

 

Daughter is 10 and would really like to walk to and from school on her own but as we keep saying, it isn't her but other people who are the problem. I'm not sure how addled the brains are of these people but I couldn't comprehend the stress if driving the school run ten times a week, we see parents who live a lot nearer than our 0.5 mile walk and they aren't doing it to save time.

 

If its that bad as far as Tax & MOT is concerned have you talked to The Police?

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, johnofwessex said:

 

If its that bad as far as Tax & MOT is concerned have you talked to The Police?

I've no doubt they would have checked.

[298]

1 hour ago, johnofwessex said:

 

If its that bad as far as Tax & MOT is concerned have you talked to The Police?

 

Reported online. I've been reluctant to do so in the past since calling what I thought was the DVLA because of an "abandoned " car, when whoever answered saying "Hello, how can I help you?" to which I replied by explaining the situation which took several minutes for them to say "Well, thanks for that, but I really don't know what that has to do with Scottish Power. I now realise the accent gave that one away...

[298]

59 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

I've no doubt they would have checked.

 

Annoying thing was, the particular miscreant seems like one of these people whose route takes them past the school twice but wonders why they are stuck in traffic. He was doing what most people seem to do when bored and was playing with his phone, oblivious to the Police ANPR equipped Volvo about 5 cars behind. I'm guessing they didn't catch him that day...

[johnofwessex]

https://www.gov.uk/report-untaxed-vehicle