37081LochLong Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Any good websites which have details of the Class 13 Master and Slave units of Tinsley yard? If you were considering converting a couple of Dapol 08's, unfortunately the class 13's were put together from later 08's with the shorter hinges so it would involve a lot of work. I was going to do one myself but I'm going to wait for the promised short hinges version before I make a class 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CloggyDog Posted November 15, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 15, 2016 (edited) Any good websites which have details of the Class 13 Master and Slave units of Tinsley yard? Best bet is to wiki 'Class 13' for the basic gen, then flickr image serch for 'Class 13', D4500/1/2 and 13001/2/3 - should give you all you need. They differed quite a bit between the 3 individual examples, especially as time marched on. In any event, the Dapol 08 is the early-configuration 08, whereas the 13s were converted from late configuration 08s, so you'd be creating a lot of extra work for yourself - new bonnet doors, new cab doors as well as the new buffer beams, cut-down slave cab, etc. If/as/when Dapol do the later configuration 08, I am rather tempted to do a 13. Edited November 15, 2016 by CloggyDeux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Oh and let's not forget, always good to bring up some silly, life-affecting issue (apparently) that is all Hornby's fault in a thread that has(n't) got Hornby written all over it. How did Hornby slip in here then?,,Ohh, I see, the term Railroad, which makes it stand out as different from the normal railway items........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Here's a thing, could a standard 4 pin Bachmann chip be reprogrammed to work the shunting lights only? Here's a thing. No. This is a hardware incompatibility problem. Pratting about with the decoder programming will achieve nothing. The only way to get an MTC decoder to work the rear lights is to rewire the lights. The only way to get a four function decoder to operate the rear lights is to re-wire the lights. So get your brand new Dapol opened up and re-wired. You might save a few bob on a cheap decoder, but what price your warranty if something goes wrong? Kind regards, Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 I think I'll hold on the DCC till the spring, the winter fuel allowance has been blown on the loco so far!!!!! On cost , with DC it is very cheap,a new controller I have just built fr the L&B layout cam to the grand total of about a fiver, PWM with variable frequency bands, feedback switchable, and coasting to a halt with a soft start. It's rating is up to 3 amps so could be used for the 08 as well. DCC has one interest for me, the sound and accessory control, like remote control uncoupling..... Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 40-something Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Here's a thing. No. This is a hardware incompatibility problem. Pratting about with the decoder programming will achieve nothing. The only way to get an MTC decoder to work the rear lights is to rewire the lights. The only way to get a four function decoder to operate the rear lights is to re-wire the lights. So get your brand new Dapol opened up and re-wired. You might save a few bob on a cheap decoder, but what price your warranty if something goes wrong? Kind regards, Paul Thanks Paul, thought it was a daft question! I'll pick up a chip at Warley, not sure if Im going sound yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 I think I'll hold on the DCC till the spring, the winter fuel allowance has been blown on the loco so far!!!!! On cost , with DC it is very cheap,a new controller I have just built fr the L&B layout cam to the grand total of about a fiver, PWM with variable frequency bands, feedback switchable, and coasting to a halt with a soft start. It's rating is up to 3 amps so could be used for the 08 as well. DCC has one interest for me, the sound and accessory control, like remote control uncoupling..... Stephen Stephen, Entirely your choice. DC works as well now as it always has. Some decoders can react badly to feedback and PWM on analogue. Most 'prefer' pure DC. On the other hand, some decoders can use their own 'soft start', motor regulation, top speed, inertia and momentum settings, plus stay alive capacitors on DC. I won't mention any brand by name, but you can probably guess which ones I'm refering to. LOL. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted November 15, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 15, 2016 I won't mention any brand by name, but you can probably guess which ones I'm refering to. LOL. Paul Ummmmm???? Hang on.....the names on the tip of my tongue..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Looks like I'm the only one (so far) with a wiring issue. Time to break out the soldering iron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Q663368 Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 OOOoooooo we're back to pointing fingers at the American's! Haven't they had enough this past week? Oh and let's not forget, always good to bring up some silly, life-affecting issue (apparently) that is all Hornby's fault in a thread that has(n't) got Hornby written all over it. We used to blame the Russians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Many congratulations to Dapol. If it hadn’t been for the price, I doubt that I would have considered dabbling in 0 scale. As it is, I’m very pleased and wondering about wagons and a shunting plank of some sort, if I stop buying 00 for long enought to finance it! Not "if" - "when"... as in when you sell all that teeny-tiny OO stuff, & get into O Scale properly!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 (edited) I really do not want to start a debate (wrong thread anyway) but I do find it amazing people spend a fortune on Locos, wagons, coaches, track and general layout bits which must amount to thousands of pounds (it doesn't take long just four or five Heljan 7mm, let alone the rest of the stuff), and then only want to spend a few hundred quid on probably the most important part of the hobby in terms of enjoyment and function......the controller. I promise I am not digging at anyone as we all have budgets, it just appears sometimes the budgets are a bit skee-whiff. Personally I am happy to spend on the controller at least the cost of JUST one Loco in 7mm. Anywhoo as well as waiting until I can get all my stock actually running before buying any sound decoders, I am waiting for a controller that'll do what I want (and the chip wants) without looking and feeling like a multi use TV handset from the sixties, so far my money is being allocated towards an ESU ECoS........but who knows what'll emerge from other manufacturers before I am ready (which on present form could be a long time ). Anyway.......I just love the look of the 08....as for the Class 42 I bought a few months ago I haven't even unwrapped it from the Parcel Force envelope yet! I have to agree with you, I was a long time garden railwayer in G scale ( 35+ years) when Digital first emerged I saw it as having many advantages over the Analogue system, especially that the track carried constant full volts, anyway initially I bought a budget DCC system which needed a booster or 2 due to the size of the garden line, however although it worked I was never happy with it, so eventually I purchased A Massoth system which even in 1995 cost me around £1200, the benefits were really worth the outlay the system performed faultlessly and when we moved house in '06 I sold it to a friend and as far as I know it is still working well ( in Paris) Edited November 16, 2016 by Stevelewis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 (edited) Mike, What does it say in the User Notes you got with the decoder? Paul Edit. Sorry, that sounded harsher than intended. I really need to know what you were given so I can help. This ActiveDrive project is not the same as my ProtoDrive version mentioned above. You may have an older version of the instructions than the project loaded on your decoder. The ActiveDrive V16.11 from Digtrains should have top directional lamps on F0, the cab lights on F8 and shunting lights on F20. If that's not the case, get back to me and I'll tell you how to assign the lights to some F keys. Paul You may find the ProtoDrive 'User Notes' useful in your comparison with other projects: ProtoDrive Dapol Class 08 User Notes V16.11 Rev.B.docx Class 08 ProtoDrive For Dapol 0 Gauge V16.11 Rev B Please spend a few moments to read these notes which have been produced so that you may obtain the maximum satisfaction from your new sound scheme. The sounds should work perfectly when the decoder is fitted correctly. Individual locos may require some fine tuning that you can achieve with your DCC controller. Insulation The Dapol 08 PCB has components which are very close to the decoder when fitted. There should not be a problem with this in normal use, but I strongly suggest covering these components with a strip of insulating tape before installing the decoder ‘just to be sure’. What is ProtoDrive? This is a system developed to allow more prototypical sounds to be deployed across a wide range of operating conditions. The sounds have been programmed in such a way that you, the user, may change the way that the sounds respond to your driving style or needs. This avoids the need for reprogramming and all the additional costs that would imply. Engine Start Up. The lubricating oil is transferred to a header tank with a hand operated pump prior to starting. F14 has the sound of this pump which can be played before switching on the main engine sounds. I have separated this from the start up sounds so that you can choose to use it or not. F 1 will crank and start the engine which will then settle down into Idle Driving your model. It is normal for the control lever on a real Class 08 to get to ‘Notch 2’ before the engine sound changes. This is due to the gearing, the tick-over speed and the way that the generator is set up. This means that when lightly loaded a Class 08 can be moved without the engine note increasing. This sound project provides a couple of ways to simulate this. Opening the throttle modestly will allow the model to move without engine ramping. F5 will change the exact characteristics of what happens with your style of driving. You can, of course, also use the well proven ZIMO feature on F6 to ‘hold’ the engine sounds in Idle if you find that the engine ramping response is still too sensitive for your needs. Throttle Response Scheme. As supplied, the decoder will produce the sounds of a Class 08 with a train on the hook. After the start-up routine the loco will stand with the diesel engine, the Prime Mover (PM), ticking over at idle. The sounds will respond to the throttle control in the following way: Select speed step 1. The brakes will release, the PM will increase power to get the loco moving, and will continue until at higher speed, a further ramp up will be initiated until the final high speed running sounds begin. The precise speed steps will depend upon your model, so I suggest you make a note of the actual figures for your later use. The sounds will spool down at similar points on deceleration. The model can be driven in this way without ever needing to use any control other than the throttle . For those of you who prefer something more immersive, in this custom version there are extra control features to further enhance your driving pleasure. Coasting No matter what actual speed your model is travelling at, or which engine note range is playing, reducing the throttle by 10 speed steps (of 128) will spool down the engine sounds to ‘Coasting’ The coasting sound will continue until you accelerate; at which point the sounds will change to those relevant to the current speed. Alternatively, to force the engine to play idling sounds, or to avoid engine ramp up when pottering about the yard, use F6 at any time Notch Down During any driving sound ‘loop’, at any speed, it is possible to cause the engine power to spool down to the level immediately below. This is easily achieved by reducing the speed by one step only E.g., if the loco is playing power band 3 sounds, reducing speed with your throttle by one step will cause the sound to immediately spool down to the sound of power band 2, if in power band 1, it will spool down to idle. Acceleration of one speed step or more will immediately ramp the sound back up to the higher power. So you can now, at any road speed, vary the engine note by reducing or adding a single speed step. Heavy Train/Light Engine Mode Selection The default setting is for ‘heavy train’. Inertia is high so acceleration (and deceleration) is restricted. Activated by F5, Light Engine enables multi-function changes with one key. The switched features include reduced inertia setting to allow more rapid acceleration and engine sounds which accelerate differently. F5 can be operated at any speed to give another way in which the engine sounds at a given road speed may be modified instantly. The 08 has a top seed of 15mph, and the decoder has been set to a similar maximum speed. If you open the throttle gently, it is possible to drive with engine sounds only. However, flicking the throttle wide open will cause the sound of the Traction Motors to sound before fading. With a moving loco, try flicking the throttle open and some slow, gentle accelerations to gauge the difference, and use ‘Notch Down’ to bring another variation to the loco’s sounds Note. This works best if you switch F5 on or off whilst the engine sounds are playing in idle. Once switched, you can leave it that way, but any further change should also be made with the engine sound again playing the idle loop. Just to be clear, the actual speed is unimportant, but the engine sound must be idling. You can achieve this in several ways as discussed above. Dynamic Inertia A combination of new features is included in the automatic operation of the throttle which will affect how the model responds to your control inputs. The operation is identical in either ‘heavy’ or ‘light’ mode. Put in simple terms, the wider you open the power controller, the quicker the engine sounds ramp up and for the first time on any decoder, the acceleration rate increases correspondingly. What does this mean in practice? If you use your controller’s throttle gently, with modest speed step increases, then the engine will rise and fall automatically and the model will accelerate according to the momentum setting. This is by default high for ‘heavy’ and low for ‘light’. If however, you open the throttle rapidly, the engine will ramp up to full power and acceleration will be approximately 3 times quicker. This change in acceleration rate is variable and dependent upon throttle operation. Note. Although this feature is enabled, the low top speed may make it difficult to spot the difference. (It’s much more obvious on mainline locos). Brakes F2 will give the sound of air brake applications. They can be ‘dabbed’ or held for varying length. The sound will respond accordingly. Additionally,if the throttle is reduced beforehand, as a real driver would do before braking, a braking force will be applied which will actually slow the road speed of the model progressively, that is the brake force applied will continue to increase the longer F2 is held. Short dabs will provide speed trimming, held down continuously will result in a controlled ‘Emergency Stop’. PowerCab users please note that the Horn/Whistle button operates the same sound/function as the F2 Key, but set as ‘momentary’. This facilities the precise operation of the brakes and should be used instead of F2. Other systems may have F2 set to operate as ‘momentary’ by default, or can be set to do so. If the Brake Key is latched on whilst at standstill, opening the throttle will operate the engine sounds (i.e. can be used to apply more ‘power’) but the loco will not move until the Brake key is released. This can be used to simulate brake testing before operations begin. Please remember to release the Brake Key when you wish to depart. Engine Speed-up F7 is a complementary key to F6. Whilst the latter forces the engine sounds to Idle, F7 will speed up the engine to maximum. Since this includes the sound of the traction motors, this should only be used when the loco is in motion. Remember to switch this key off before stopping! Fuel Transfer Pump Fuel is delivered to the diesel pump by gravity from a small header tank. Fuel is held in the main tank and must be transferred to the header tank by a hand pump in the cab. This pumping is typically needed before starting and at intervals to maintain sufficient fuel in the header tank. In later years, some locos were fitted with an electrical lift pump F 14 provides the sound of the mechanical pump and can be used whenever required. Train Brakes The loco brakes are air operated so all 08s have a compressor fitted to provide pressure. A variety of train brakes have been used on this class over their long working life. Some had no train brakes fitted at all Some had Vacuum operated train brakes either from new or fitted later. Needed for some coaching stock and ‘fitted freight’ wagons. A special Vacuum pump called an Exhauster was fitted to these locos. Others had Air operated train brakes either from new or fitted later. Required for air braked stock movements. A second compressor was fitted to these locos. So called ‘Dual Braked’ were equipped with both air and vacuum train brakes. The outward signs are the number of cabinets fitted to accommodate the additional pumps required, above the side footplates and any pneumatic pipes fitted to each end of the loco. You will need to research what was fitted to the loco you choose to model in the period you are recreating. The sound project has sounds on-board for each option, so some may not be applicable in every case. Doors Class 08 loco were fitted with either wooden or metal cab doors. The project has the sound of wooden doors opening and closing by default. This can be changed to the sound of metal cab doors by selecting a different value in CV564 Audible Warning Device Class 08 locos were originally fitted with a compressed air whistle. In later years, some were re-equipped with an air horn. The project has a whistle by default. CVs 519 and 522 determine the sound played by F3 and F4 respectively. Whistles can be replaced by air horns by changing the values in these CVs. Lights When used, one red lamp and one white lamp each over a buffer and illuminated at each end of the loco simultaneously was the norm for BR when shunting. These are operated by F19. A directional top lamp is provided on the model, switched by F0 in the project. A cab light is provided on F10. All lamps have a ‘soft’ fade in or out to simulate tungsten bulbs, and exterior lamps have been dimmed to be closer to realistic illumination levels. (To make them brighter if you wish, increase the value in CV60). Light switch sounds will accompany the switching on or off of each set of lamps. Radio Controlled Shunting Propelling a rake of cars or wagons requires the assistance of signals from a Shunter. In more recent times, Duplex Radios have been used to facilitate communication. The Shunter becomes the eyes and ears for the driver from the distant end of the train. To enhance your operational realism, I’ve included some radio coms recorded from a real operating Class 08 locomotive. Fkeys 20 to 26 control a sequence of typical instructions given, some of which the driver ‘acknowledges’ when the key is released. The driver still operates the loco, brakes and whistle/horn, but under the instruction of the Shunter. Live Volume Control Provided the sound is switched on and the ‘fade’ button is not active, it is possible to change the overall volume to suit changing needs. Engage F27 and the sound levels will gradually reduce, eventually to silence Engage F28 and the sound levels will gradually increase, eventually to maximum. In each case, disengage the F key when the desired level is attained. Set F27 and F28 as ‘momentary’ if your DCC controller allows you to do so. Note: If the volume controls appear to not function, check that F19, F27 and F28 are disengaged before making a further attempt. Alternative Sounds To add to your long term enjoyment of this sound project, there are a number of alternative sounds included on your ProtoDrive equipped decoder which are not assigned by default to any F key. (There are only 29 keys available). The default sounds are shown in the Functions List below. This is how to use the alternative sounds. In Functions List Sound ID column, find the CV corresponding to the F key you wish to use. Put the ID of the sound you require as the value of that CV. e.g. to change the default Wooden Doors (ID 27) sound to Metal Doors (ID 22), make CV564 = 22, and vice versa to change back again. Default Alternative Whistle (hold to extend duration), ID 18 Air Horn Toot, ID 15 Whistle Toot Toot, ID 19 Air Horn Acknowledgement, ID 16 Flange Squeal 1,ID 39 Flange Squeal 2, ID 23 Wagons Taking up Slack, ID 38 Wagons Buffering, ID 36 Wooden Cab Doors, ID 27 Metal Cab Doors, ID 22 - Air Release 1, ID 43 - Air release 2, ID 21 You may need to adjust the volume of the replacement sound, use the appropriate CV shown in the Functions List. If you get mixed up, don’t panic. CV8 = 8 reset will restore all defaults (including loco address) but will preserve all sounds. Function List This simplified list removes formatting which upsets some forum text reproduction; missing CV information is included in the downloadable version. F Key Function/Sound 0 Directional Top Light 1 Sound On/Off 2 Brake Key (non-latching) 3 Toot 4 Toot Toot 5 Light Engine Mode 6 Coasting/Idle Key, 7 Power Boost 8 ON Buffering up 8 OFF Coupling/uncoupling 9 Flange Squeal 10 Cab Light 11 Exhauster (Vacuum Train Brakes) 12 Spirax Valves 13 Wagons Taking up Slack 14 Fuel Transfer Pump 15 Windscreen Wipers 16 Compressor 17 Guard’s whistle 18 ON Cab Door Opened 18 OFF Cab Door Closed 19 Shunting Lights 20 ON ‘Shunter to Driver’ 20 OFF ‘Receiving’ 21 ON ‘Will You Set Back, Please’ 21 OFF ‘Setting Back’ 22 ‘Keep Coming Keep Coming’ 23 ‘Slow Down, Slow Down’ 24 ‘Sound your Horn, Please’ 25 ‘Six Feet to Buffer-up’ 26 Pull Away, Pull Away’ 27 Volume Down 28 Volume Up It’s now down to your skill and knowledge to simulate any eventuality! Paul Chetter Lincoln November 2016 Edited November 16, 2016 by pauliebanger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2016 The thing that I always find odd about sounds for 350 shunters (Class 08 etc for younger readers) is that they don't include the sound of the traction motors - and to me they are one of the most noticeable sounds of all when they move off, more so in fact than the engine noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 The thing that I always find odd about sounds for 350 shunters (Class 08 etc for younger readers) is that they don't include the sound of the traction motors - and to me they are one of the most noticeable sounds of all when they move off, more so in fact than the engine noise. I suppose you are talking about the one's you have encountered. Not all sound projects are the same, and there's more than one quality sound decoder type available. Traction motor sound does feature in my sound project. It's just not featured in the video in this thread above. In this earlier clip a similar project in a Bachmann 08, the traction motors can be heard from about 1 min 55s Kind regards, Paul 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 (edited) Interesting and comprehensive stuff on DCC folks! The Zimo set up is very good, very nice, but pricey, I always liked the over all feel ('Real Feel' TM was it?) of the ZTC units, yet again, they were quite pricey but for over all functionality and VFM the Digitrax range is very, very good - its what I went for. True the handsets can be a bit like, feel-wise, a 1970s/80s side-band CB radio, but across the board it's very good and provides, as a package deal, enough power for the larger 7mm locos from day one, with the ability to augment too. The NCE Powercab units would also be a good choice if I were still model-making in 4mm, or maybe just had a small shunting layout in 7mm. I read somewhere the other day (IIRC GOG Gazette), that although the stall on a twin motored Heljan 7mm loco was huge, they very often didnt get anywhere near such and the operating amperage was very low indeed, even with a heavy train of eg. brass coaches. I have a couple of fairly robust decoders for older twin motor Heljan diesels and I am now wondering if they are over-kill (or belt and braces safe)? Mind you I am also considering removing the motor and gears from the trailing bogies anyway. This latest batch of 7mm RTR small locos, that will take - despite their weight - a 'OO' specd decoder is most welcome as that is a safe and cost effective alternative. BTW does anyone know if a stay-alive decoder/capacitor is required on the 08, as it's so smooth and heavy anyway? ATVB CME Edited November 16, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70b Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 .. BTW does anyone know if a stay-alive decoder/capacitor is required on the 08, as it's so smooth and heavy anyway? following advice earlier in the thread I ordered a zimo mx634d for mine and the package thats come (thanks to digitrains) includes a surprisingly big capacitor, so it must be a stay alive decoder, so probably the 644 is too, it may not need them but I'll probably install it anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 As we don't all have DCC......... I've reword the motor, all working perfectly, sceptical of course when it now (correctly) runs forward, the rear light is illuminated and vice versa. So I guess it might be something to do with the pcb? DCC apart, anyone any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45125 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 You may find the ProtoDrive 'User Notes' useful in your comparison with other projects: ProtoDrive Dapol Class 08 User Notes V16.11 Rev.B.docx Class 08 ProtoDrive For Dapol 0 Gauge V16.11 Rev B Please spend a few moments to read these notes which have been produced so that you may obtain the maximum satisfaction from your new sound scheme. The sounds should work perfectly when the decoder is fitted correctly. Individual locos may require some fine tuning that you can achieve with your DCC controller. Insulation The Dapol 08 PCB has components which are very close to the decoder when fitted. There should not be a problem with this in normal use, but I strongly suggest covering these components with a strip of insulating tape before installing the decoder ‘just to be sure’. What is ProtoDrive? This is a system developed to allow more prototypical sounds to be deployed across a wide range of operating conditions. The sounds have been programmed in such a way that you, the user, may change the way that the sounds respond to your driving style or needs. This avoids the need for reprogramming and all the additional costs that would imply. Engine Start Up. The lubricating oil is transferred to a header tank with a hand operated pump prior to starting. F14 has the sound of this pump which can be played before switching on the main engine sounds. I have separated this from the start up sounds so that you can choose to use it or not. F 1 will crank and start the engine which will then settle down into Idle Driving your model. It is normal for the control lever on a real Class 08 to get to ‘Notch 2’ before the engine sound changes. This is due to the gearing, the tick-over speed and the way that the generator is set up. This means that when lightly loaded a Class 08 can be moved without the engine note increasing. This sound project provides a couple of ways to simulate this. Opening the throttle modestly will allow the model to move without engine ramping. F5 will change the exact characteristics of what happens with your style of driving. You can, of course, also use the well proven ZIMO feature on F6 to ‘hold’ the engine sounds in Idle if you find that the engine ramping response is still too sensitive for your needs. Throttle Response Scheme. As supplied, the decoder will produce the sounds of a Class 08 with a train on the hook. After the start-up routine the loco will stand with the diesel engine, the Prime Mover (PM), ticking over at idle. The sounds will respond to the throttle control in the following way: Select speed step 1. The brakes will release, the PM will increase power to get the loco moving, and will continue until at higher speed, a further ramp up will be initiated until the final high speed running sounds begin. The precise speed steps will depend upon your model, so I suggest you make a note of the actual figures for your later use. The sounds will spool down at similar points on deceleration. The model can be driven in this way without ever needing to use any control other than the throttle . For those of you who prefer something more immersive, in this custom version there are extra control features to further enhance your driving pleasure. Coasting No matter what actual speed your model is travelling at, or which engine note range is playing, reducing the throttle by 10 speed steps (of 128) will spool down the engine sounds to ‘Coasting’ The coasting sound will continue until you accelerate; at which point the sounds will change to those relevant to the current speed. Alternatively, to force the engine to play idling sounds, or to avoid engine ramp up when pottering about the yard, use F6 at any time Notch Down During any driving sound ‘loop’, at any speed, it is possible to cause the engine power to spool down to the level immediately below. This is easily achieved by reducing the speed by one step only E.g., if the loco is playing power band 3 sounds, reducing speed with your throttle by one step will cause the sound to immediately spool down to the sound of power band 2, if in power band 1, it will spool down to idle. Acceleration of one speed step or more will immediately ramp the sound back up to the higher power. So you can now, at any road speed, vary the engine note by reducing or adding a single speed step. Heavy Train/Light Engine Mode Selection The default setting is for ‘heavy train’. Inertia is high so acceleration (and deceleration) is restricted. Activated by F5, Light Engine enables multi-function changes with one key. The switched features include reduced inertia setting to allow more rapid acceleration and engine sounds which accelerate differently. F5 can be operated at any speed to give another way in which the engine sounds at a given road speed may be modified instantly. The 08 has a top seed of 15mph, and the decoder has been set to a similar maximum speed. If you open the throttle gently, it is possible to drive with engine sounds only. However, flicking the throttle wide open will cause the sound of the Traction Motors to sound before fading. With a moving loco, try flicking the throttle open and some slow, gentle accelerations to gauge the difference, and use ‘Notch Down’ to bring another variation to the loco’s sounds Note. This works best if you switch F5 on or off whilst the engine sounds are playing in idle. Once switched, you can leave it that way, but any further change should also be made with the engine sound again playing the idle loop. Just to be clear, the actual speed is unimportant, but the engine sound must be idling. You can achieve this in several ways as discussed above. Dynamic Inertia A combination of new features is included in the automatic operation of the throttle which will affect how the model responds to your control inputs. The operation is identical in either ‘heavy’ or ‘light’ mode. Put in simple terms, the wider you open the power controller, the quicker the engine sounds ramp up and for the first time on any decoder, the acceleration rate increases correspondingly. What does this mean in practice? If you use your controller’s throttle gently, with modest speed step increases, then the engine will rise and fall automatically and the model will accelerate according to the momentum setting. This is by default high for ‘heavy’ and low for ‘light’. If however, you open the throttle rapidly, the engine will ramp up to full power and acceleration will be approximately 3 times quicker. This change in acceleration rate is variable and dependent upon throttle operation. Note. Although this feature is enabled, the low top speed may make it difficult to spot the difference. (It’s much more obvious on mainline locos). Brakes F2 will give the sound of air brake applications. They can be ‘dabbed’ or held for varying length. The sound will respond accordingly. Additionally,if the throttle is reduced beforehand, as a real driver would do before braking, a braking force will be applied which will actually slow the road speed of the model progressively, that is the brake force applied will continue to increase the longer F2 is held. Short dabs will provide speed trimming, held down continuously will result in a controlled ‘Emergency Stop’. PowerCab users please note that the Horn/Whistle button operates the same sound/function as the F2 Key, but set as ‘momentary’. This facilities the precise operation of the brakes and should be used instead of F2. Other systems may have F2 set to operate as ‘momentary’ by default, or can be set to do so. If the Brake Key is latched on whilst at standstill, opening the throttle will operate the engine sounds (i.e. can be used to apply more ‘power’) but the loco will not move until the Brake key is released. This can be used to simulate brake testing before operations begin. Please remember to release the Brake Key when you wish to depart. Engine Speed-up F7 is a complementary key to F6. Whilst the latter forces the engine sounds to Idle, F7 will speed up the engine to maximum. Since this includes the sound of the traction motors, this should only be used when the loco is in motion. Remember to switch this key off before stopping! Fuel Transfer Pump Fuel is delivered to the diesel pump by gravity from a small header tank. Fuel is held in the main tank and must be transferred to the header tank by a hand pump in the cab. This pumping is typically needed before starting and at intervals to maintain sufficient fuel in the header tank. In later years, some locos were fitted with an electrical lift pump F 14 provides the sound of the mechanical pump and can be used whenever required. Train Brakes The loco brakes are air operated so all 08s have a compressor fitted to provide pressure. A variety of train brakes have been used on this class over their long working life. Some had no train brakes fitted at all Some had Vacuum operated train brakes either from new or fitted later. Needed for some coaching stock and ‘fitted freight’ wagons. A special Vacuum pump called an Exhauster was fitted to these locos. Others had Air operated train brakes either from new or fitted later. Required for air braked stock movements. A second compressor was fitted to these locos. So called ‘Dual Braked’ were equipped with both air and vacuum train brakes. The outward signs are the number of cabinets fitted to accommodate the additional pumps required, above the side footplates and any pneumatic pipes fitted to each end of the loco. You will need to research what was fitted to the loco you choose to model in the period you are recreating. The sound project has sounds on-board for each option, so some may not be applicable in every case. Doors Class 08 loco were fitted with either wooden or metal cab doors. The project has the sound of wooden doors opening and closing by default. This can be changed to the sound of metal cab doors by selecting a different value in CV564 Audible Warning Device Class 08 locos were originally fitted with a compressed air whistle. In later years, some were re-equipped with an air horn. The project has a whistle by default. CVs 519 and 522 determine the sound played by F3 and F4 respectively. Whistles can be replaced by air horns by changing the values in these CVs. Lights When used, one red lamp and one white lamp each over a buffer and illuminated at each end of the loco simultaneously was the norm for BR when shunting. These are operated by F19. A directional top lamp is provided on the model, switched by F0 in the project. A cab light is provided on F10. All lamps have a ‘soft’ fade in or out to simulate tungsten bulbs, and exterior lamps have been dimmed to be closer to realistic illumination levels. (To make them brighter if you wish, increase the value in CV60). Light switch sounds will accompany the switching on or off of each set of lamps. Radio Controlled Shunting Propelling a rake of cars or wagons requires the assistance of signals from a Shunter. In more recent times, Duplex Radios have been used to facilitate communication. The Shunter becomes the eyes and ears for the driver from the distant end of the train. To enhance your operational realism, I’ve included some radio coms recorded from a real operating Class 08 locomotive. Fkeys 20 to 26 control a sequence of typical instructions given, some of which the driver ‘acknowledges’ when the key is released. The driver still operates the loco, brakes and whistle/horn, but under the instruction of the Shunter. Live Volume Control Provided the sound is switched on and the ‘fade’ button is not active, it is possible to change the overall volume to suit changing needs. Engage F27 and the sound levels will gradually reduce, eventually to silence Engage F28 and the sound levels will gradually increase, eventually to maximum. In each case, disengage the F key when the desired level is attained. Set F27 and F28 as ‘momentary’ if your DCC controller allows you to do so. Note: If the volume controls appear to not function, check that F19, F27 and F28 are disengaged before making a further attempt. Alternative Sounds To add to your long term enjoyment of this sound project, there are a number of alternative sounds included on your ProtoDrive equipped decoder which are not assigned by default to any F key. (There are only 29 keys available). The default sounds are shown in the Functions List below. This is how to use the alternative sounds. In Functions List Sound ID column, find the CV corresponding to the F key you wish to use. Put the ID of the sound you require as the value of that CV. e.g. to change the default Wooden Doors (ID 27) sound to Metal Doors (ID 22), make CV564 = 22, and vice versa to change back again. Default Alternative Whistle (hold to extend duration), ID 18 Air Horn Toot, ID 15 Whistle Toot Toot, ID 19 Air Horn Acknowledgement, ID 16 Flange Squeal 1,ID 39 Flange Squeal 2, ID 23 Wagons Taking up Slack, ID 38 Wagons Buffering, ID 36 Wooden Cab Doors, ID 27 Metal Cab Doors, ID 22 - Air Release 1, ID 43 - Air release 2, ID 21 You may need to adjust the volume of the replacement sound, use the appropriate CV shown in the Functions List. If you get mixed up, don’t panic. CV8 = 8 reset will restore all defaults (including loco address) but will preserve all sounds. Function List This simplified list removes formatting which upsets some forum text reproduction; missing CV information is included in the downloadable version. F Key Function/Sound 0 Directional Top Light 1 Sound On/Off 2 Brake Key (non-latching) 3 Toot 4 Toot Toot 5 Light Engine Mode 6 Coasting/Idle Key, 7 Power Boost 8 ON Buffering up 8 OFF Coupling/uncoupling 9 Flange Squeal 10 Cab Light 11 Exhauster (Vacuum Train Brakes) 12 Spirax Valves 13 Wagons Taking up Slack 14 Fuel Transfer Pump 15 Windscreen Wipers 16 Compressor 17 Guard’s whistle 18 ON Cab Door Opened 18 OFF Cab Door Closed 19 Shunting Lights 20 ON ‘Shunter to Driver’ 20 OFF ‘Receiving’ 21 ON ‘Will You Set Back, Please’ 21 OFF ‘Setting Back’ 22 ‘Keep Coming Keep Coming’ 23 ‘Slow Down, Slow Down’ 24 ‘Sound your Horn, Please’ 25 ‘Six Feet to Buffer-up’ 26 Pull Away, Pull Away’ 27 Volume Down 28 Volume Up It’s now down to your skill and knowledge to simulate any eventuality! Paul Chetter Lincoln November 2016 Only on a dual or air only 350 would the compressor be a really noticeable sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 I suppose you are talking about the one's you have encountered. Not all sound projects are the same, and there's more than one quality sound decoder type available. Traction motor sound does feature in my sound project. It's just not featured in the video in this thread above. In this earlier clip a similar project in a Bachmann 08, the traction motors can be heard from about 1 min 55s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxPIFHyb5hQ Kind regards, Paul Hi Paul How come the traction motors don't feature in the earlier video? Cheers Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 (edited) Hi Paul How come the traction motors don't feature in the earlier video? Cheers Ian. Ian, To keep the clip short. It's intended as a taster, not a full exposee. The sound project has the traction motor sound but there's so much else included to tell/show that I had to be selective in what to highlight. Since the traction motor sound has already been part of my 08 sound projects for nearly 2 years, I decided to concentrate on the major new feature, radio controlled shunting. There has always been the ability to move the loco without the sound of the engine increasing in speed/power in my 08 sound project, but I did not highlight that issue in the previous video.As a consequence, comments were posted on here after the 00 clip appeared, that on the real Class 08 the engine does not rev up when 'light engine' on level track. That's why the first sequence in the Dapol 08 video clearly shows the model moving in this fashion . Kind regards, Paul Edited November 16, 2016 by pauliebanger 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Cheers for the reply Paul. I think I've got it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
class27 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Paul I have a sound fitted version on order which I hope to see in the next few weeks. Can you shed any light on what features (soundwise) this will have??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Not "if" - "when"... as in when you sell all that teeny-tiny OO stuff, & get into O Scale properly!! The trouble is, I’m interested in the historical aspect. The range of stuff in 00 is much, much wider and also cheaper, even if Dapol has closed the gap somewhat. Not to mention the difficulty of finding enough room to run a train of a dozen wagons. (The other half-dozen Dapol HIAs are on their way.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Paul I have a sound fitted version on order which I hope to see in the next few weeks. Can you shed any light on what features (soundwise) this will have??? Here's a link to Dapol's sound instructions http://Dapol.co.uk/image/data/Logos/Dapol%20CLASS%2008%20instruction%20sheet.pdf Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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