Dapol 08

[Johnfromoz]

The Dapol 08 Doctor will see you now....

 

Am I the first to dismember my 08 completely?

Being quite comfortable with taking things apart and not too fussed about warranty (once I had proven it basically works).

 

Contemplating fitting a Zimo 644D sound chip to my 08 last night led me to start removing screws to see if access could be made as simple as possible.

 

So, as others have found, the body and chassis can easily be separated with two small screws (one at each end of the chassis) , remembering to carefully

disconnect the wiring/plugs inside and gently threading the chassis out of the plastic items (vac pipes, rear crossbar, pipework plugged into chassis etc.).

 

We now have the two parts - I want to fit a crew, the Cice art ones are very nice and a good price too..

See here http://artcice.wixsite.com/cice

 

Body

Therefore I needed to gain access to the cab. Removing the two side by side screws below the cab allowed the whole assembly to lift vertically away from the bodyshell.

Again, take care that the wires to the cab and marker lights are threaded out as well. The wires are thin and easily snagged..

 

With the cab free, it is found to be made up of two parts, the control desk and floor separates from the outer cab body by very very gently easing the cab body outward starting with the control desk end and working round (note, it may be glued) to the back of the body where there are two very small clips in each corner of the rear cab inside wall.

 

Once free, the two parts separate to reveal a very nicely detailed cab - you can now add more gauges/detail and crew easily.

 

WARNING - be careful of the hinged doors, as the fine wire pin that secures them is liable to fall out... Best keep the cab body inverted to help keep the wire in.

 

The main body/nose assembly is also glued to the footplate (most probably to avoid a gap showing !) although there are two recessed screws if you are needing to separate things further. I chose not to, as access is now clear to easily mount a speaker behind the nice mesh radiator grille.

 

The Zimo dual chamber speaker is an easy fit with plenty of room available.

It can be secured with blu-tak or a small bracket.

 

Also plenty of room for a small smoke generator. <a project for another report later>

 

Many will have found that the centre lower marker light is not active (no led fitted). I plan to add one as there is some space - albeit tight...

With a Zimo decoder a separate funcrtion can be added to drive this if required (or wire it into working with one of the others)

 

Chassis

Turning to the chassis...

The small circuit board can easily be removed via the two small screws on top once the wires have been unsoldered (mine were rather untidy) - and I wanted to replace them with slightly thicker wire as I intend to make my loco dual mode with a DC - DCC switch inside.

 

Also allowing me to add my stored charge lighting circuit for when on DC use ;-) Keeps the shunting lights on for a long period when stopped.

 

The plastic support frame that holds the small plug board also acts as a motor retainer and is simply clipped out of the chassis  by gently prying with a small blade on each of the lower part of the four legs and the frame lifts away.

 

Now the motor can be lifted out from the flywheel end and the gearing examined for lubrication etc.

Actually the motor is not securely fitted, simply resting in the chassis casting cradle and secured with the plastic clip surround - this might be why some mechanisms are a bit noisy at higher speeds.

 

I also noticed a fair bit of sideplay in the main drive axle which may need attention later on, that plus the slop in the crank/connecting rods means a sloppy drive action.

But this is something that one of the machining fiends (like Isambard) will fix in his own inimitable style and we can all wait for a long treatise on how this is done.

Even thought he said in a previous post that he didn't plan to do any modifications - I know he will!!

 

Note the plastic sticky pad insulator on the base - again mine was not particularly square or ensuring a good insulator against the lower motor feed wire (Grey).

I have sleeved my motor wires separately for additional safety. The insulator is also a partial cushion against vibration but is somewhat poor at that task.

 

Replacing the pickup and motor connections with thicker wiring allows me to fit the DC/DCC changeover switch and rewire back to the PCB.

Plenty of room to route the wiring neatly alongside the inner frame.

 

Whilst on the subject of the connection PCB, I decided I did not like the DCC sound chip sitting at an angle and placing stress on the 21MTC connector.

 

Therefore I have performed the following modification

 

 

• Carefully unsolder and remove the two green inductors from the topside of the board.
• Refit on the underside in the same holes.
• The components are no polarity conscious so this is a simple job.
• It will be seen that they now will foul the plastic carrier  - so this is a simple task to gently carve/drill away just enough of the plastic frame to allow them to sit clear with the PCB level on top. The carrier strength is slightly reduced, but it is not supporting a lot of weight or force so all will be well.
• This now means the decoder will sit level. ;-))

 

Re-assembling everything is (in the best traditions of a Haynes manual) a reverse of the above procedure....

 

So I now have a DCC sound fitted 08 that is dual switchable to DC for use on other friends layouts, and has stored charge lighting for DC use (it lasts a number of minutes and tricks many people into thinking my layout is DCC... not!)

 

Comment welcome.

 

I plan to add more later - pictures of all this to follow soon.

Lodekka.

Some interesting innovations there Lodekka. Good luck with it! Ta for your help with the Zimo twin speakers - soldered mine up today and sound is very good with the MX644, particularly when you site the speakers hard agains the radiator etch.

 

John

[leopardml2341]

......... Good question about crew numbers. Certainly one driver in my time on them but that was only a few years back. The shunter spent plenty of time in the cab as well. Of course there could always be another person being trained up at any time.

 ......and a traction inspector, travelling fitter, engineering technician......ad infinitum.

 

Wonder who will be the first to re-create this for an 08?

 

hat, coat and hi-vis.......

[CloggyDog]

 ......and a traction inspector, travelling fitter, engineering technician......ad infinitum.

 

Wonder who will be the first to re-create this for an 08?

 

hat, coat and hi-vis.......

 

I dunno 'bout that, but I'll be keeping an eye on DCC Supplies 'Dapol Demics' page just in case they get some broken 08s in as the basis for one of the snowplough conversions

[Lodekka]

Postscript to the above missive...

 

Just a couple of supplemental notes...

 

When cutting the PCB mounting frame to accommodate the under mounted inductors repositioned from the topside, it is important to note that the mounting frame is handed - one side lugs are closer together, so take care to check when cutting...

 

Also, an omission from the first posting was that the very skinny looking vac pipes can easily be bulked up to look more realistic by adding some fine fuse wire or wire wrap wire round the original, using it as a former... Looks quite the part, needs a bit of care to make it look even but worth it.

 

Apart from some judicious weathering the 08 is really starting to look good...

[F-UnitMad]

@ Mr Lodekka; can you please give a bit more info (such as a clicky-link ) about the stored charge lighting unit?

I remain resolutely 12vDC for my British O Scale (DCC for my US-outline stuff) but would like to tinker with the lights on this model & this sounds like a Good Idea.

Thanks again!!

[Derbys65]

Anyone else stocking the Simon sound decoder?, Digitrains have ran out of stock ☹️️

[Derbys65]

Zimo! Lol , predictive text

[lewey13]

Anyone know when the sound versions are going to be ready seems to be taking a very long time, or is it me. Duncan

[Rugd1022]

As regards the driving position mentioned above, being a short*rse I usually stood up when driving 08s which made it easier to lean out of the side window slightly to get a better view of the road / the shunter on the ground. The 'stool' style seats can be raised up a few notches but only so far and at the highest position wee folk like me had trouble holding down the deadman's treadle! Standing up also makes it easier to swap sides when on the move, which was needed quite a lot in some yards where the curvature of the track layout changed.

 

One thing I can say with certainty about these locos - no two are exactly alike in the way they drive, they are / were truly characterful little beasts. Totting them up, I think I've probably driven at least forty different 08s and 09s, and they all moved, shuffled, clonked, groaned, bounced and trundled about in different ways.

 

Hope that helps!

[edcayton]

So that's where "Gronk" comes from-GROan and cloNKed.

 

Ed

[Lodekka]

@ Mr Lodekka; can you please give a bit more info (such as a clicky-link ) about the stored charge lighting unit?

I remain resolutely 12vDC for my British O Scale (DCC for my US-outline stuff) but would like to tinker with the lights on this model & this sounds like a Good Idea.

Thanks again!!

 

Hi F-UnitMad,

 

The Stored Charge lighting is relatively simple... I requires a rectifier bridge (to allow for polarity changes), a regulator circuit to control the voltage on the storage device to a fixed level and some decoupling components to prevent noise and oscillation.

You also need to take care of inrush currents so a couple of components for that too.

The size of the storage device will also govern current ratings and charge/discharge times.

 

Recent ones I have done for rolling stock have had around 8-10 second durations (mainly for DCC to cover poor pickup in On30), so just like the 'stay alives'.

But for these applications I am planning on some seriously large storage values and on a DC layout will give you a number of minutes 'on' time.

One I did lasted around 10 minutes.

Actually quite impressive as it gives the impression that the layout is DCC...

 

The only complication is if you have a switchable loco as it gets more complex then...

But that may not affect you.

Regards

Lodekka

[Greenmodelmonkey]

Postscript to the above missive...

Just a couple of supplemental notes...

When cutting the PCB mounting frame to accommodate the under mounted inductors repositioned from the topside, it is important to note that the mounting frame is handed - one side lugs are closer together, so take care to check when cutting...

Also, an omission from the first posting was that the very skinny looking vac pipes can easily be bulked up to look more realistic by adding some fine fuse wire or wire wrap wire round the original, using it as a former... Looks quite the part, needs a bit of care to make it look even but worth it.

Apart from some judicious weathering the 08 is really starting to look good...

Oh no wonder mine does not work now you have updated your instructions and I have now invalidated my warranty....

 

...only joking think I will leave well alone as it runs well with a Zimo fitted and no mods required apart from adding a piece of insulation tape between PCB and decoder.

[F-UnitMad]

Hi F-UnitMad,

 

The Stored Charge lighting is relatively simple... I requires a rectifier bridge (to allow for polarity changes), a regulator circuit to control the voltage on the storage device to a fixed level and some decoupling components to prevent noise and oscillation.

You also need to take care of inrush currents so a couple of components for that too.

The size of the storage device will also govern current ratings and charge/discharge times.

 

 

Regards

Lodekka

Thanks for that - although it's a new definition of "relaively simple" that I was previously unaware of...

[pauliebanger]

Thanks for that - although it's a new definition of "relaively simple" that I was previously unaware of...

 

Here's my idea of relatively simple.

 

The MX644D works fine on DC without switches and allows BEMF Regulation plus inertia and momentum settings to be used. The items to be powered on DC can be set up in advance.

 

Add a high capacitance Stay Alive capacitor to the ZIMO decoder pads provided for the purpose. The decoder has as standard the additional circuitry to control the charge/discharge which other brands of sound decoder don't provide.

 

Put the loco on powered track to charge it up. That's it - Job's a good 'un. It will provide back-up power on analogue or digital providing Stay Alive capacitance.

 

Giving this sort of performance: (works on analogue, digital, and wood.)

 

 

Plus the bonus that some sound also plays on DC, making your layout sound like it's DCC too.

 

And the other obvious bonus - it will actually run on DCC rails.

 

Mind you, the 10 minutes duration that Johnfrmoz achieves is pretty impressive, you have to admit.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[boxbrownie]

Thanks for that - although it's a new definition of "relaively simple" that I was previously unaware of...

 

My thoughts exactly....... 

Edited December 1, 2016 by boxbrownie

[boxbrownie]

 

 

 

 

 

The Little Engine that could 

[3 link]

Have just had an email from Hattons, saying my green meanie is being packed and sent out to me today. So let's hope Royal Mail get their finger out and also treat my package with care ( fingers crossed ). Mind you it says Royal Mail 2 Days tracked!

 

Martyn.

Edited December 1, 2016 by 3 link

[josh993]

What transfers are people using/recommend for the unnumbered BR Black 08s, I have searched through the topic but can't see any mention of what people are using!

[Johnfromoz]

Like many here, the 08 has fuelled my first dalliance into O Gauge, having picked up the pre and post TOPS blue versions. Mightily impressed with both, one now has sound, the other plain DCC.

 

Looking back at the earlier angst in the thread about 21 pin control of all functions and the unsuitability of MTC chips for these, just thought I would let interested parties know that the humble 4 funtion cheapie from hattons operates all lighting (switchable) on my d3045 EXCEPT the cab facing shunt lights. Given the decoder cost I think I can live with this.

 

Superb motor control too, though I think this is more to do withe Dapol motor than the chip. (Has anyone yet had a rough running 08?)

 

John

[Greenmodelmonkey]

Anyone know when the sound versions are going to be ready seems to be taking a very long time, or is it me. Duncan

Suggest you contact to DCC Supplies as I believe they are Dapol sole agent for fitting sound units in UK. Tower Models latest news talked about Black sound fitted version should be avaible in next few weeks (based on the way this was put it might be a longer wait than expected!). I guess that priority is to get as many lower cost units sold covering all the promised versions first, then focus on sound fitted version where sales volume is probably lower.

 

Might be easier to get non fitted sound verion then fit your own decoder and speaker saving time and cira £50 (Zimo Prodrive from Paul on this thread is far superior than Dapol verion).

[norman]

Suggest you contact to DCC Supplies as I believe they are Dapol sole agent for fitting sound units in UK. Tower Models latest news talked about Black sound fitted version should be avaible in next few weeks (based on the way this was put it might be a longer wait than expected!). I guess that priority is to get as many lower cost units sold covering all the promised versions first, then focus on sound fitted version where sales volume is probably lower.

 

Might be easier to get non fitted sound verion then fit your own decoder and speaker saving time and cira £50 (Zimo Prodrive from Paul on this thread is far superior than Dapol verion).

The Dapol 08 is just about the easiest ever in which to install a sound decoder.  With a Zimo 644D (21 pin)  decoder just solder a speaker to the two wires and pop the decoder in.  And it  's not much more difficult if you want to add a stay alive capacitor.  There's plenty of room under the bonnet.

The delay must be for a reason and its strange that so much patience is required for the sound version to become available.

Norman 

[Lodekka]

My thoughts exactly....... 

 

Well I did say 'relatively' simple - it does require an element of electronics knowledge.

 

Appears to have lost a few people - so perhaps my explanation of what to do was a bit too complex.

 

Pauls explanation of the Fowler Diesel on DCC /DC analogue was very good and indeed the performance was most impressive.

 

But the bugbear I have is that on DC(both the Fowler and 08)  the running/shunting lights brightness is governed by the running rail voltage to some degree

(apart from the excellent Zimo MC644D decoder) and what I wanted was constant brightness lights.

Which happen to stay on when the loco is stopped... for up to 10 minutes (not sure why Paul thought someone else said this!) Twas I

 

Hence the stored charge circuit which provides that.

 

So I have a switchable solution as I wanted the decoder completely isolated when on DC.

 

Works for me, sorry others felt it was too difficult - only about 8 components!

Perhaps i'll be better keeping my other innovations / modifications to myself.

Lodekka

[Greenmodelmonkey]

Well I did say 'relatively' simple - it does require an element of electronics knowledge.

 

Appears to have lost a few people - so perhaps my explanation of what to do was a bit too complex.

 

Pauls explanation of the Fowler Diesel on DCC /DC analogue was very good and indeed the performance was most impressive.

 

 

 

But the bugbear I have is that on DC(both the Fowler and 08)  the running/shunting lights brightness is governed by the running rail voltage to some degree

(apart from the excellent Zimo MC644D decoder) and what I wanted was constant brightness lights.

Which happen to stay on when the loco is stopped... for up to 10 minutes (not sure why Paul thought someone else said this!) Twas I

 

Hence the stored charge circuit which provides that.

 

So I have a switchable solution as I wanted the decoder completely isolated when on DC.

 

Works for me, sorry others felt it was too difficult - only about 8 components!

Perhaps i'll be better keeping my other innovations / modifications to myself.

Lodekka

But you haven't explained what the (about) 8 components are and what the circuit diagram is, so it's not workable for anyone with out these. I assume you would be able to provide this using your electronics knowledge to help those that are not as experienced as you appear to be?

[pauliebanger]

Well I did say 'relatively' simple - it does require an element of electronics knowledge.

 

Appears to have lost a few people - so perhaps my explanation of what to do was a bit too complex.

 

Pauls explanation of the Fowler Diesel on DCC /DC analogue was very good and indeed the performance was most impressive.

 

But the bugbear I have is that on DC(both the Fowler and 08)  the running/shunting lights brightness is governed by the running rail voltage to some degree

(apart from the excellent Zimo MC644D decoder) and what I wanted was constant brightness lights.

Which happen to stay on when the loco is stopped... for up to 10 minutes (not sure why Paul thought someone else said this!) Twas I

 

Hence the stored charge circuit which provides that.

 

So I have a switchable solution as I wanted the decoder completely isolated when on DC.

 

Works for me, sorry others felt it was too difficult - only about 8 components!

Perhaps i'll be better keeping my other innovations / modifications to myself.

Lodekka

 

Sorry Lodekka,

 

It was late and my eyes were bleary.

 

I'm happy to put the record straight. It's Lodekka who can sustain it for 10 minutes.

 

My post wasn't intended as any sort of a dig at what you have done. In fact, I thought it rather ingenious. I for one would be very happy to learn more of your techniques.

 

I was really just responding to the post from F-Unitmad

 

I'm partway through preparing my own 'working' of a Dapol 08 so your strip down insights and the disassembly photos shown elsewhere are a great resource. Thanks.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[F-UnitMad]

 

Works for me, sorry others felt it was too difficult - only about 8 components!

Perhaps i'll be better keeping my other innovations / modifications to myself.

Lodekka

No no no - don't keep it to yourself - make some more & sell them!! I'm not joking.

 

Whilst I see that the Zimo decoder is a good way to get sound & lights even on DC, I don't really want all that for my British stuff, partly as £90+ isn't far short of the cost of the next decoder I do want for an American loco.

I'd just like to play with the lights on my 08 & if there's a cheap way to get them to stay on for a bit "by themselves" so to speak, I'm interested, especially if it was available 'ready to fit' (maybe a bit of soldering required).