Warley MRC and Warley NEC Show - the facts

[Barry O]

Recently in another thread statements were made about the Warley Show and also about Warley MRC Exhibitions Ltd. These were passed to the Show Manager for comment as they did not fully explain the way the Show operates or why Warley MRC Exhibitions Ltd was set up. I include the full response below from Paul Jones, Exhibition Manager of every Warley National Model Railway Exhibition to date (and also quite a few at the Harry Mitchell in Smethwick prior to the move to the NEC) to ensure that people are fully aware of what actually happens.

 

"Around 25 years ago, the Warley MRC Show at the Harry Mitchell Centre in Smethwick was at a crossroads - it was a successful event which had outgrown the venue, which in turn had issues with then new legislation (Food Act primarilly) and had very poor car parking facilities. We looked at a number of potential venues, including the then new NIA in central Birmingham before exploring the NEC after an introduction by a third party. The decision to move the Show there was not taken lightly and considerable market research was undertaken to determine the level of support that would be available, from the manufacturing trade, the hobby magazines and our regular visitors. All were extremely positive about the proposal and there was a sense of this was a ‘shot in the arm’ that the railway modelling hobby needed at the time.

 

Despite these positive responses, we knew that a Show at the NEC was not without considerable financial risk as no one knew how many visitors would attend and whether it would cover its costs or lose money. Consequently a limited company was formed which would protect the members of Warley MRC in the event of a financial failure - otherwise the members of Warley MRC would be personally liable for any losses. From the beginning it was the intention that any surpluses would be used to develop the railway modelling hobby in the West Midlands, and to ensure that no individual profited the Articles of Association were written so that Directors could not be remunerated. The shares at that time were held in Trust for the benefit of Warley MRC. Following the conversion of the Club to a registered charity following new charity legislation (it is now a charitable incorporated organisation) those shares are now held by Warley MRC so the company is wholly owned by the Club as a charity.

 

The Exhibition is organised on a commercial basis in the same way that I would hope all model railway exhibitions are, in that it is intended to cover its cost and make a surplus. No individual or shareholder personally benefits financially, which probably cannot be said for all exhibitions. Like all such events, there is a fine line between success and failure, and there have been some years when we only just crossed that line. Overall the Show has been a success in many ways and has enabled a clubroom to be purchased for Warley MRC. It is expected that this will become a centre for our hobby in the West Midlands as time goes on, as it becomes more difficult for Clubs to find and afford suitable accommodation. We have to date integrated 2 local clubs into Warley MRC as a result of them losing their facilities, and their projects are now undertaken in the Club premises.

 

The Warley NEC Show isn’t for everyone, and I am the first to admit that. It does continue to provide a Showcase for our hobby, has the ongoing support of the principal and many smaller manufacturers and continues to attract sufficient visitors (the vast majority of whom tell us that they very much enjoy the experience) to cover its costs. As long as this continues we will continue to organise the event."

 

 

I am a member of Warley MRC and organise the demonstrations. I do not get paid for my work - neither would I expect to. Perhaps now the facts are clear we can avoid future misunderstandings.

 

Baz

[big jim]

A very interesting read however its one of those things that really us as a paying visitor to the show really shouldnt give two hoots about or indeed have any concern with, how an orginisation is run behind the scenes should be a private arrangement between members of said club

 

I feel it sad that someone from the club has to come on the net and basically justify the clubs position publically but thats the world we live in these days, people 'need to know' and sometimes feel they have a right to know, similarly the pages upon pages of comments regards things like 'Hornby no longer giving out sample models' for example, things like that happening years ago would have been unknown to us 'end users' and frankly 99% of us wouldn't be bothered about not knowing about it

 

I've never thought of the warley show actually being a local clubs own show as its such a big show, like it or not it really is the showcase of exhibitions, the place announcents are made, items are released etc and at no point when walking round there have i personally ever given consideration or a thought about anyone making a few bob from staging it, (or indeed cared)

 

Needless to say i'll be going this year if work allows

[The Stationmaster]

A very interesting read however its one of those things that really us as a paying visitor to the show really shouldnt give two hoots about or indeed have any concern with, how an orginisation is run behind the scenes should be a private arrangement between members of said club

 

I feel it sad that someone from the club has to come on the net and basically justify the clubs position publically but thats the world we live in these days, people 'need to know' and sometimes feel they have a right to know, similarly the pages upon pages of comments regards things like 'Hornby no longer giving out sample models' for example, things like that happening years ago would have been unknown to us 'end users' and frankly 99% of us wouldn't be bothered about not knowing about it

 

I've never thought of the warley show actually being a local clubs own show as its such a big show, like it or not it really is the showcase of exhibitions, the place announcents are made, items are released etc and at no point when walking round there have i personally ever given consideration or a thought about anyone making a few bob from staging it, (or indeed cared)

 

Needless to say i'll be going this year if work allows

Quite agree Jim - regrettably it has been posted as a response to some nonsense which emerged in another thread where the poster was taking a sort of shotgun approach to making up accusations as he went along (even posting a weblink which contradicted what he was saying  ).  Alas we live in a very sad world at times.

[big jim]

I never saw the original thread but from barry's post on early risers i saw something had been said and then found this thread afterwards

[298]

If people wish to be churlish about such matters, why not go further and not bother visiting a local club show if all they manage to build are second rate dreary and uninspiring exhibition layouts...?

 

Not that I've seen or are interested in the Warley balance sheet, I would add that I regard the entrance fee as being good value, if slightly constrained by a limit as to exactly how much of a show might be realistically accessible to a visitor or even of interest- of 80 (?) layouts I might want to see only a quarter in total and have a direct interest in 5 to 10, but I'd probably have to go to a specialist show to generate a similar level of interest. And based on the theory that of the ticket price at a broad range of shows, you are only paying £1 as profit after other expenses have been taken out, which isn't a lot of thanks for the hard work and volunteer effort that has gone on behind the scenes, and I'm struggling to see that the Warley Show has even been that successful, considering what they've got to show for 20 years at the NEC.

 

If there is any criticism or negativity regarding the event, shouldn't it be aimed directly at the dreary, oppressing, run down, overpriced warehouse that doesn't deserve the "National" title...?

[Barry O]

At the teapot meeting last week in t only members of Warley club were there Sutton in Coldfield and Wolverhampton members who help as volunteers at the show were there. It is thanks to people like these as well as Warley members from local and not so local to the Club that the exhibition takes place.

 

It is hoped that the Charity Link is well supported this year so that additional nebulisers can be passed D on to those who need them.

Baz

[PaulRhB]

And to boot a very friendly show to exhibit at thanks to all the stewards. I've now taken or helped at the show five times and about to be there for a sixth and the only thing we ever felt we needed to comment about was dealt with well on the day and sorted on the Sunday, this was when the hotels said they couldn't do early breakfast and the NEC kitchens were a bit slow.

I know many don't think of it as such but in my experience it has always felt like a big friendly club show and Paul Jones always makes an appearance to check all is well. Considering their website tells much about the club and charity work it takes a fair bit of effort to ignore it and I've been aware for years it is just run like a bigger club show thanks to Chris posting on the garden railway forums

[Tim V]

And it supports a clubroom that the rest of us can only dream about.

[Ian J.]

One could almost argue that for an exhibition of such national significance, the organisation and management shouldn't be resting on Warley Club's shoulders alone. However, getting other clubs nationally to help out in some way, and keeping it all non-political (small 'p') is probably practically impossible. Of course other clubs take layouts to the show, so in that way they do participate.

[Willie Whizz]

 

If there is any criticism or negativity regarding the event, shouldn't it be aimed directly at the dreary, oppressing, run down, overpriced warehouse that doesn't deserve the "National" title...?

 

You may need to be more explicit about why it doesn't "deserve" the National title.

 

Some of us might think you say that because it isn't in London.

 

Too much is, already.

[Ravenser]

You may need to be more explicit about why it doesn't "deserve" the National title.

 

Some of us might think you say that because it isn't in London.

 

Too much is, already.

 

The sodium lighting is grim . The car parking is £10 and nearly a mile's walk to the hall. The catering's mediocre and expensive, and the complex is a vast expanse of aging worn non-architecture from one of the very worst decades in the 2500 year history of Western Architecture. In my mind the NEC evokes either a long wait in the freezing cold then an awkward crowded bus trip through the night to a dark and desolate plain somewhere across which is my car. Or standing in a crush-loaded Voyager which reloads as a crush at Coventry because Coventry are playing at home, followed by a broken connection and a cold wait for an hour and a half on a dark platform at Leamington Spa where the buffet has closed for the night. Or being tipped out in the dark at some strange station and herded onto a ageing double decker from a second division bus company to be bounced down A- roads at 50mph  

 

The ambience of the complex is of a vast unrefurbished Wimpey bar , with food to match, and I can't help feeling that if the NEC is Britain's national shop window then the country deserves something a bit better . Something  we could actually take pride in. While the Motor Museum at Gaydon has some circulation issues the public ambiance is light years better.

 

People with a long memory will remember the huge improvement when Warner's London show moved to Ally Pally after the first year in a dingy industrial shed at Wembley.

 

Think in terms of the difference between Leeds City station before and after the recent rebuilding

[Neal Ball]

The sodium lighting is grim . .......

The ambience of the complex is of a vast unrefurbished Wimpey bar .....

 

Of course that is your view, which you are entitled to..... BUT - the Warley club should be congratulated for putting on such a large scale show...

 

Now of course, if your local club wanted to put on a show at a bigger / better venue, I'm sure we would all welcome that. But of course, Warley has been running for years and will be a hard act to follow - in my opinion.

[Ravenser]

Of course that is your view, which you are entitled to..... BUT - the Warley club should be congratulated for putting on such a large scale show...

 

Now of course, if your local club wanted to put on a show at a bigger / better venue, I'm sure we would all welcome that. But of course, Warley has been running for years and will be a hard act to follow - in my opinion.

 

My criticism is of the NEC as a place, not of the Warley Club's efforts in mounting a show there. There are many good reasons to go to Warley show, which are provided by the club - not by the NEC 

[silverlink]

The sodium lighting is grim . The car parking is £10 and nearly a mile's walk to the hall. The catering's mediocre and expensive, and the complex is a vast expanse of aging worn non-architecture from one of the very worst decades in the 2500 year history of Western Architecture. In my mind the NEC evokes either a long wait in the freezing cold then an awkward crowded bus trip through the night to a dark and desolate plain somewhere across which is my car. Or standing in a crush-loaded Voyager which reloads as a crush at Coventry because Coventry are playing at home, followed by a broken connection and a cold wait for an hour and a half on a dark platform at Leamington Spa where the buffet has closed for the night. Or being tipped out in the dark at some strange station and herded onto a ageing double decker from a second division bus company to be bounced down A- roads at 50mph  

 

The ambience of the complex is of a vast unrefurbished Wimpey bar , with food to match, and I can't help feeling that if the NEC is Britain's national shop window then the country deserves something a bit better . Something  we could actually take pride in. While the Motor Museum at Gaydon has some circulation issues the public ambiance is light years better.

 

People with a long memory will remember the huge improvement when Warner's London show moved to Ally Pally after the first year in a dingy industrial shed at Wembley.

 

Think in terms of the difference between Leeds City station before and after the recent rebuilding

Fully agree with Ravenser's comments above I have nothing but admiration for Paul Jones and his team on the professional way the show is organised, as a past exhibitor & visitor at the show the sheer size of the show fair takes your breath away. We were made to feel most welcome by the Warley show personnel but I fear they are put under tremendous strain by the NEC management and security personnel. I'm surprised we didn't need our passports to get in with our van and worst of all we were sent to a car park some considerable distance away from the venue once unloaded when for the whole weekend there was a large empty car/van park right opposite the exhibitors entrance that could have easily been used!

I have just exhibited at the Hornby 'Great Electric Train Show' at Gaydon and have to say it was one of the best shows I've ever attended, the exhibition rooms were modern, spacious, well lit and the room temperature always seemed to be just right. We had very easy access into the venue with our layouts and were able to park close to the venue. We were also able to get our layouts out and away very easily on Sunday afternoon.

Ian H  

[Willie Whizz]

I don't disagree with either of these posts; my concern was that it sounded like an earlier poster felt the NEC didn't deserve the title "National" because of where it is (i.e. "not London"), not what it is.  

 

For those of us with long enough memories, it was something of a revelation when it first opened, but I would agree that the halls themselves haven't been keeping pace with modern expectations for years, and the lighting (especially) is now appalling.

 

I too attended the Gaydon exhibition - it was in most respects indeed an excellent venue.  But it was cramped - there were times I felt I was in the crowd at a football match - and it was considerably smaller than the NEC hall.  So I'm not sure you're comparing 'apples with apples',

 

Perhaps we should be asking for constructive suggestions about a better, more modern venue in that same neck of the woods, of broadly comparable size to the current Warley Show, that the organising Club could be pointed towards; one that still has one of the principal attributes of the NEC by being reasonably well accessible to the whole country without the hassle and cost of dragging ourselves into and then across the capital.

[stewartingram]

The sodium lighting is grim . The car parking is £10 and nearly a mile's walk to the hall. The catering's mediocre and expensive, and the complex is a vast expanse of aging worn non-architecture from one of the very worst decades in the 2500 year history of Western Architecture. In my mind the NEC evokes either a long wait in the freezing cold then an awkward crowded bus trip through the night to a dark and desolate plain somewhere across which is my car. Or standing in a crush-loaded Voyager which reloads as a crush at Coventry because Coventry are playing at home, followed by a broken connection and a cold wait for an hour and a half on a dark platform at Leamington Spa where the buffet has closed for the night. Or being tipped out in the dark at some strange station and herded onto a ageing double decker from a second division bus company to be bounced down A- roads at 50mph  

 

The ambience of the complex is of a vast unrefurbished Wimpey bar , with food to match, and I can't help feeling that if the NEC is Britain's national shop window then the country deserves something a bit better . Something  we could actually take pride in. While the Motor Museum at Gaydon has some circulation issues the public ambiance is light years better.

 

People with a long memory will remember the huge improvement when Warner's London show moved to Ally Pally after the first year in a dingy industrial shed at Wembley.

 

Think in terms of the difference between Leeds City station before and after the recent rebuilding

Ambient lighting is poor, but most layouts supply their own lighting.

I NEVER use the car park, prefering to drive to a nearby station (such as Tile Hill) and catch the train there. Free parking and a cheap train fare. A short rail journey, easy.

 

Stewart

[298]

 

Perhaps we should be asking for constructive suggestions about a better, more modern venue in that same neck of the woods, of broadly comparable size to the current Warley Show, that the organising Club could be pointed towards; one that still has one of the principal attributes of the NEC by being reasonably well accessible to the whole country without the hassle and cost of dragging ourselves into and then across the capital.

There was a *Rumour* a few years ago that the show would be moved to the Exhibition Hall at the Arena in Coventry, downsides to this being reduced transport options and not having a regular weekend as the show would have to fit around whoever is playing there that week.

 

I'm not sure if or when the show will be downsizing, but there are plenty of other options in the area, not that the NEC management would see the small fry show as a valued customer....

[Phil Parker]

Ambient lighting is poor, but most layouts supply their own lighting.

 

 

The ambient lighting is designed around the normal fare of the NEC - trade shows where ALL stands provide thier own lighting and wish to control it without floodlights in the roof. If you visit any of these, it's very easy to get around.

 

Layouts (IMHO) should provide their own lighting if they want to look good, and to be fair, the vast majority do.

 

I'd extend that to the trade too, either that or put them in shell scheme stands which would increase the prices even further. If you visit a European show, the trade displays are done this way and look more professional for it, something some UK traders understand and copy.

 

Phil

[Phil Parker]

There was a *Rumour* a few years ago that the show would be moved to the Exhibition Hall at the Arena in Coventry, downsides to this being reduced transport options and not having a regular weekend as the show would have to fit around whoever is playing there that week.

 

I'm not sure if or when the show will be downsizing, but there are plenty of other options in the area, not that the NEC management would see the small fry show as a valued customer....

 

Not sure where you'd find a comparible sized venue locally. Gaydon for example, is tiny in comparison. Coventry has problems booking weekends a year ahead. Stoneleigh Park is also only around half the size of one NEC hall. Warwickshire Exhibition centrer smaller still. None have anything like the transport connections either.

[Phil Parker]

The sodium lighting is grim . The car parking is £10 and nearly a mile's walk to the hall. The catering's mediocre and expensive, and the complex is a vast expanse of aging worn non-architecture from one of the very worst decades in the 2500 year history of Western Architecture. In my mind the NEC evokes either a long wait in the freezing cold then an awkward crowded bus trip through the night to a dark and desolate plain somewhere across which is my car. Or standing in a crush-loaded Voyager which reloads as a crush at Coventry because Coventry are playing at home, followed by a broken connection and a cold wait for an hour and a half on a dark platform at Leamington Spa where the buffet has closed for the night. Or being tipped out in the dark at some strange station and herded onto a ageing double decker from a second division bus company to be bounced down A- roads at 50mph  

 

The ambience of the complex is of a vast unrefurbished Wimpey bar , with food to match, and I can't help feeling that if the NEC is Britain's national shop window then the country deserves something a bit better . Something  we could actually take pride in. While the Motor Museum at Gaydon has some circulation issues the public ambiance is light years better.

 

People with a long memory will remember the huge improvement when Warner's London show moved to Ally Pally after the first year in a dingy industrial shed at Wembley.

 

Think in terms of the difference between Leeds City station before and after the recent rebuilding

 

The fact our railways are often rubbish isn't the NEC's fault - blame Cross Country Trains for not buying enough rolling stock. Your car is a long way away becuase that's how you get thousands of cars parked around a venue without resorting to muti-story car parks, which people will also moan about. I'll accept the parking is expensive but not that much compared to many in-town car parks I've used or even your local hospital .

 

Exhibition catering often varies but I suppose the people running it have only a couple of days to make the money. At least at the NEC, you can leave the hall (yes you can) and make use of the Weatherspoons (admitedly full of RMwebbers) or Subway which are as good as the high street versions. You can even nip over to the airport for a sit-down meal, I find this better than the crush loaded train straight after the show closes.

 

Ally Pally on the other hand is a lovely historic building but it's falling down, the tarmac floor isn't flat and transport links poor. If you don't get there VERY early, you've just as long a walk to your car but it's now on a hill and there isn't a bus service to the carpark as far as I know.

 

Mind you, I don't mind the architecture and quite like a Wimpy bar dinner.

[Nile]

Ally Pally on the other hand is a lovely historic building but it's falling down, the tarmac floor isn't flat and transport links poor. If you don't get there VERY early, you've just as long a walk to your car but it's now on a hill and there isn't a bus service to the carpark as far as I know.

 

There is, and it's free like the car park.

[The Stationmaster]

The fact our railways are often rubbish isn't the NEC's fault - blame Cross Country Trains for not buying enough rolling stock. Your car is a long way away becuase that's how you get thousands of cars parked around a venue without resorting to muti-story car parks, which people will also moan about. I'll accept the parking is expensive but not that much compared to many in-town car parks I've used or even your local hospital .

 

Exhibition catering often varies but I suppose the people running it have only a couple of days to make the money. At least at the NEC, you can leave the hall (yes you can) and make use of the Weatherspoons (admitedly full of RMwebbers) or Subway which are as good as the high street versions. You can even nip over to the airport for a sit-down meal, I find this better than the crush loaded train straight after the show closes.

 

Ally Pally on the other hand is a lovely historic building but it's falling down, the tarmac floor isn't flat and transport links poor. If you don't get there VERY early, you've just as long a walk to your car but it's now on a hill and there isn't a bus service to the carpark as far as I know.

 

Mind you, I don't mind the architecture and quite like a Wimpy bar dinner.

Actually I find Ally Pally almost as good as the NEC for public transport access. Admittedly getting to the former means going through London (for me) but the service 'buses are frequent in both directions and the walk back down the hill is very nice if the weather is ok.

 

In contrast the NEC - although further away - is a much simpler rail journey but that means the inevitability of travelling Cross Country on fixed formation trains which were never intended to handle passenger loads for busy weekends at the NEC.  the walk gto the hall is under cover, the ticket arrangements usually seem to work well and the only problem is getting around some parts of the hall and not having time to see everything before I'm worn out.  And I too doubt there is as good an alternative venue elsewhere in the West Midlands although I don't really know the area.

[298]

Not sure where you'd find a comparible sized venue locally. Gaydon for example, is tiny in comparison. Coventry has problems booking weekends a year ahead. Stoneleigh Park is also only around half the size of one NEC hall. Warwickshire Exhibition centrer smaller still. None have anything like the transport connections either.

The key is in the downsizing bit, and how long this behemoth will continue to roll in its current form. As you mentioned, there are a number of venues capable of hosting what most would agree would still be a very large show. Yes, other sites have issues, but so does the NEC.

 

 

It'll also be interesting to see if one of the larger commercial organisers (BRM or Hornby Magazine) continue with such an event at the NEC should Warley downsize, as I believe they have an agreement in place with the centre management that stops anyone else holding a model railway exhibition there.

[298]

You may need to be more explicit about why it doesn't "deserve" the National title.

 

Some of us might think you say that because it isn't in London.

 

Too much is, already.

Purely because of the ambience, as others have pointed out. I don't agree that Hall 5 doesn't need good lighting because stands ought to have their own because the post-nuclear Armageddon peachy orange glow creates a horrible colour cast that takes a while for your eyes to adjust back to the proper corrected glow on properly lit layouts.

 

I also don't agree that the food and parking "has" to be overpriced because they have less days through the years to cover running costs, it's purely exploitation of a captive audience.

 

I certainly wasn't suggesting anything "National-centric" should only be in London, Warley is actually my local show but unfortunately due to the issues with the venue, it isn't on the "must attend" list...

[PaulRhB]

Finding spaces of that size is getting harder, even much smaller venues are getting rarer. Our club show uses a local school who have just employed an events manager to get more use of it. The simple fact is now they are going to have to pay someone £20k out of the hire costs and make more from it than they already did! Costs are spiralling as schools become more desperate for money to balance books and many community sports centres have been sold off or have to follow a similar ethos to the schools.

The NEC won't change the lighting until it needs totally replacing as the big money shows provide their own so they don't need to to keep business.

The simple fact is they provide the space needed at a predictable time in a central location. The show still attracts big numbers and the club are prepared to give their time and effort for free to invest in the hobby and their club. There's no reason to shift it to a new location, at present, that would create many unknowns for them.

Some of us who work shifts and weekends find the big shows worth going to as we can get a lot in one weekend off. I'd like to go to more shows but with only 1 in 3 weekends free I have to do other things on those weekends too so I can only justify 4-5 a year

Adding lights to your layout solves the issue at many venues, dark rooms or corners are quite common I find, so well worth the investment. The walk across the car parks justifies a slap up meal at a pub on the way home and eat your sandwiches to make space in your bag for purchases