Q6

[JaymzHatstand]

Thanks for the tender guides and animated gif. Now I know what differences to look for when choosing a prototype loco.

 

I think I'll be acquiring the late crest version to become a dirty in service loco, and hopefully wait for the DJM one I have ordered for 63395 as preserved. Best of both worlds there methinks!

 

Cheers

 

J

[Daddyman]

This is a real surprise and I'm pleased for the people who want one of these. A few years ago I'd have been among them. 

 

However, I won't be buying one for two reasons. The first is that although the model looks good in the photos we have so far, you need to remember that Hornby will be on their best behaviour with pre-production models. What will actually be delivered, judging by the other 2015 releases I have bought or examined and put back on the shelf is: 

 

warped loco footplate (see K1 and Book Law) 

gap between tender body and footplate (K1 and Book Law; the blue spot fish van could also sort of go in here) 

self-coloured plastic bufferbeams flapping away at the edges (Book Law) 

glue on glazing or elsewhere on the body (Book Law, P2, Great Gathering) 

misaligned handrails - and possibly horizontal pillars (Book Law, J15, Great Gathering) 

ill-seated main components such as the cab, which needs breaking off and re-attaching (Book Law) 

"weathering" that could only be described as displaying contempt for the customer (K1) 

broken off components - often nowhere to be found in the box (Great Gathering) 

 

I decided to boycott Hornby after Book Law (but then they'd long ago boycotted people like me modelling north of York) so haven't seen the D16. However, it seems Hornby have been up to their usual tricks again with warped footplates and broken parts: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80002-Hornby-d163/page-14

 

So there seems to be no reason to think that the Q6 will be built to any different standards.

 

The other reason I won't be buying the model is the north of York thing. In the years since modern standards arrived (2003?), no steam loco has been offered to those standards that ran exclusively north of York, and certainly not north of the border. The D11/2 was only offered because Bachmann were already doing a south-of-York version. And the P2 wasn't to modern standards. Because of this "borealo-phobia" (prejudice against the north?), about four years ago I taught myself how to build etched kits - or rather, rmweb taught me how to build them. With all the expertise on here, it's pretty easy. Archer's rivets make it even easier. I built a Bradwell J27 as my first kit. So now I can have anything I want: a C15, C16, J25, J36. And what I can't get in kits I now scratchbuild: D20, Y9, J37, 439. It's not DJM I feel sorry for but the kit manufacturers that have supported those who model north of York, when Hornby and Bachmann have ignored us - Daves Bradwell and Alexander inter alia. And even when a long awaited loco arrived in RTR form - the K1 - it compares poorly to kit-built locos: over-thick edges, steamroller wheels and chunky coupling rods. 

 

As far as I'm concerned, Hornby and Bachmann are coach manufacturers only - though even there the silly pink on the Thompson suburbans makes me have second thoughts... 

[DougN]

Daddyman your being a little harsh there. I too build Dave Bradwell Q6, B1, J26 etc to P4 as the kits will still cost more than the Hornby RTR version! One interesting discussion I recall was Dave Bradwells WD sales went up after the Bachmann version came out. All I can do is encourage Hornby to bring these things out and as you have mentioned there are down sides.

 

There is nothing to say you can't modify and change the RTR, I agree we should not have too straight from the box. The J15 and D16 I have purchased and both have issues but we need to enjoy the relatively cheap price we pay.

[it's-er]

Many thanks to Les for his listing of tenders at post 71, and confirming that tenders A and D on his list are being modelled by Hornby.

 

Can anyone confirm what locomotives other than the Q6 these tenders ran with, please?

 

John

[gismorail]

Blimmy Daddyman that's straight from the heart hope you feel better for it I know I would......he he that's the great thing about RM Webbers they say it as it is ..........

[Guest G567281]

This is a real surprise and I'm pleased for the people who want one of these. A few years ago I'd have been among them. 

 

However, I won't be buying one for two reasons. The first is that although the model looks good in the photos we have so far, you need to remember that Hornby will be on their best behaviour with pre-production models. What will actually be delivered, judging by the other 2015 releases I have bought or examined and put back on the shelf is: 

 

warped loco footplate (see K1 and Book Law) 

gap between tender body and footplate (K1 and Book Law; the blue spot fish van could also sort of go in here) 

self-coloured plastic bufferbeams flapping away at the edges (Book Law) 

glue on glazing or elsewhere on the body (Book Law, P2, Great Gathering) 

misaligned handrails - and possibly horizontal pillars (Book Law, J15, Great Gathering) 

ill-seated main components such as the cab, which needs breaking off and re-attaching (Book Law) 

"weathering" that could only be described as displaying contempt for the customer (K1) 

broken off components - often nowhere to be found in the box (Great Gathering) 

 

I decided to boycott Hornby after Book Law (but then they'd long ago boycotted people like me modelling north of York) so haven't seen the D16. However, it seems Hornby have been up to their usual tricks again with warped footplates and broken parts: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80002-Hornby-d163/page-14

 

So there seems to be no reason to think that the Q6 will be built to any different standards.

 

The other reason I won't be buying the model is the north of York thing. In the years since modern standards arrived (2003?), no steam loco has been offered to those standards that ran exclusively north of York, and certainly not north of the border. The D11/2 was only offered because Bachmann were already doing a south-of-York version. And the P2 wasn't to modern standards. Because of this "borealo-phobia" (prejudice against the north?), about four years ago I taught myself how to build etched kits - or rather, rmweb taught me how to build them. With all the expertise on here, it's pretty easy. Archer's rivets make it even easier. I built a Bradwell J27 as my first kit. So now I can have anything I want: a C15, C16, J25, J36. And what I can't get in kits I now scratchbuild: D20, Y9, J37, 439. It's not DJM I feel sorry for but the kit manufacturers that have supported those who model north of York, when Hornby and Bachmann have ignored us - Daves Bradwell and Alexander inter alia. And even when a long awaited loco arrived in RTR form - the K1 - it compares poorly to kit-built locos: over-thick edges, steamroller wheels and chunky coupling rods. 

 

As far as I'm concerned, Hornby and Bachmann are coach manufacturers only - though even there the silly pink on the Thompson suburbans makes me have second thoughts...

 

"Frankly Charlotte ................"

[micklner]

This is a real surprise and I'm pleased for the people who want one of these. A few years ago I'd have been among them. 

 

However, I won't be buying one for two reasons. The first is that although the model looks good in the photos we have so far, you need to remember that Hornby will be on their best behaviour with pre-production models. What will actually be delivered, judging by the other 2015 releases I have bought or examined and put back on the shelf is: 

 

warped loco footplate (see K1 and Book Law) 

gap between tender body and footplate (K1 and Book Law; the blue spot fish van could also sort of go in here) 

self-coloured plastic bufferbeams flapping away at the edges (Book Law) 

glue on glazing or elsewhere on the body (Book Law, P2, Great Gathering) 

misaligned handrails - and possibly horizontal pillars (Book Law, J15, Great Gathering) 

ill-seated main components such as the cab, which needs breaking off and re-attaching (Book Law) 

"weathering" that could only be described as displaying contempt for the customer (K1) 

broken off components - often nowhere to be found in the box (Great Gathering) 

 

I decided to boycott Hornby after Book Law (but then they'd long ago boycotted people like me modelling north of York) so haven't seen the D16. However, it seems Hornby have been up to their usual tricks again with warped footplates and broken parts: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80002-Hornby-d163/page-14

 

So there seems to be no reason to think that the Q6 will be built to any different standards.

 

The other reason I won't be buying the model is the north of York thing. In the years since modern standards arrived (2003?), no steam loco has been offered to those standards that ran exclusively north of York, and certainly not north of the border. The D11/2 was only offered because Bachmann were already doing a south-of-York version. And the P2 wasn't to modern standards. Because of this "borealo-phobia" (prejudice against the north?), about four years ago I taught myself how to build etched kits - or rather, rmweb taught me how to build them. With all the expertise on here, it's pretty easy. Archer's rivets make it even easier. I built a Bradwell J27 as my first kit. So now I can have anything I want: a C15, C16, J25, J36. And what I can't get in kits I now scratchbuild: D20, Y9, J37, 439. It's not DJM I feel sorry for but the kit manufacturers that have supported those who model north of York, when Hornby and Bachmann have ignored us - Daves Bradwell and Alexander inter alia. And even when a long awaited loco arrived in RTR form - the K1 - it compares poorly to kit-built locos: over-thick edges, steamroller wheels and chunky coupling rods. 

 

As far as I'm concerned, Hornby and Bachmann are coach manufacturers only - though even there the silly pink on the Thompson suburbans makes me have second thoughts... 

i have a Bradwell J27 to do , any pictures I presume you have done it in OO ? Some interesting points re Hornby recent issues.

[Porcy Mane]

This is a real surprise and I'm pleased for the people who want one of these. A few years ago I'd have been among them. 

 

I understand and sympathise with some of your concenrns but think some of the faults on the current crop of RTR Locos are a consequence of us modelers demanding (and rightly too in my opinion) higher standards.

 

Putting quality control issues  to one side and bearing in mind you can return any item to a manufacture if faulty,  I'm sure virtually all of us have damaged some small delicate part when unpacking or handling a product. Maybe this is one area were manufactures could improve things so that, like Heljan, manufactures would make smaller and easily damaged cosmetic spares such as as Lamp irons, lamps, etc  available so that repairs that don't require return manufacturer can be done by the owner. Also no quibble returns and replacement from manufactured might be nice.

 

Larger faults such as bent running plates are really inexcusable and should be engineered out during design or noticed during pre product testing. If it's an individual problem that should be noticed and corrected at Quality Control, I know of one smaller UK commissioner of railway models that has experienced major QA problems with items manufactured in China and has had to rely on friends to unox-rebox, check and repair every item before selling on.

It may just be the photograph but the centre of the Hornby Q6 running plate does seem to have a slight bend in it in the cover on there new Handbook. Maybe

it had been driven by a Tyne Docker and had dished out a few heavy shunts.

 

Re Messrs Alexander and Bradwell. There were aware of an impending rtr Q6 so are able to adapt and there are always those of us who buy and build kits and RTR.

 

P

Edit to add missing words.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Porcy Mane

[R Marshall]

Many thanks to Les for his listing of tenders at post 71, and confirming that tenders A and D on his list are being modelled by Hornby.

 

Can anyone confirm what locomotives other than the Q6 these tenders ran with, please?

 

John

This list may not be exhaustive:

 

"Type A" - B13, B14, B15; D17, D18, D19; J39/3; Q5, Q6.

 

"Type B" - C6, C7; D21; Q6.

 

"Type C" - C7; Q6.

 

"Type D" - C7; D49; J39/3; Q6.

 

"Type E" - Raven A2; B16; C7; D49; J39/3; Q6, Q7.

 

Regards,

 

Roy Marshall

[Daddyman]

i have a Bradwell J27 to do , any pictures I presume you have done it in OO ? Some interesting points re Hornby recent issues.

It falls together, Mick. And yes, 00. It's implausibly easy to do as a first kit as the precision of the parts and the care in the design are superb. The standard by which I judge any kit. I'm now building a second. First one, Mr Bradwell rolled the boiler for me, second one I did it myself, just using rmweb knowledge and Rice's and Holt's books. He also twisted my arm into springing the tender on the first, and I sprung everything on the second, and everything else I've built since. The tender was a struggle for a twit like me, but I got it right the second time, and have built another two since. Only change I would make is to consider removing the beading at the front of the faring before rolling, as it makes it hard to shape the flare. Do you have the new 00 chassis or the old one to convert down to 00? If the latter, that's a struggle. Oh, and don't tell Mr B but I replace all of his valences (valances?) with Eileen's part number F01005D, for extra rigidity in the footplate. We're not Hornby, after all! 

 

Unfortunately, my first J27 is in Pickering earning its keep on my dad's layout. And the second is not at a stage where a photo would edify anyone - boiler and smokebox only. I've put it to one side trying to get the D20 done for Christmas for my dad.... 

 

Re the WD effect, mentioned in another post, yes, the Hornby K1 made me want to buy a Bradwell. Same feeling on seeing this Q6. I always make a point of buying a couple of Parkside wagons every time the big manufacturers swipe one of their designs - or in the case of the blue spots, 6 Parkside when Hornby brought theirs out. 

 

I should have mentioned Arthur K in the list of "heroes" as well, along with the Daves. 

[micklner]

It falls together, Mick. And yes, 00. It's implausibly easy to do as a first kit as the precision of the parts and the care in the design are superb. The standard by which I judge any kit. I'm now building a second. First one, Mr Bradwell rolled the boiler for me, second one I did it myself, just using rmweb knowledge and Rice's and Holt's books. He also twisted my arm into springing the tender on the first, and I sprung everything on the second, and everything else I've built since. The tender was a struggle for a twit like me, but I got it right the second time, and have built another two since. Only change I would make is to consider removing the beading at the front of the faring before rolling, as it makes it hard to shape the flare. Do you have the new 00 chassis or the old one to convert down to 00? If the latter, that's a struggle. Oh, and don't tell Mr B but I replace all of his valences (valances?) with Eileen's part number F01005D, for extra rigidity in the footplate. We're not Hornby, after all! 

 

Unfortunately, my first J27 is in Pickering earning its keep on my dad's layout. And the second is not at a stage where a photo would edify anyone - boiler and smokebox only. I've put it to one side trying to get the D20 done for Christmas for my dad.... 

 

Re the WD effect, mentioned in another post, yes, the Hornby K1 made me want to buy a Bradwell. Same feeling on seeing this Q6. I always make a point of buying a couple of Parkside wagons every time the big manufacturers swipe one of their designs - or in the case of the blue spots, 6 Parkside when Hornby brought theirs out. 

 

I should have mentioned Arthur K in the list of "heroes" as well, along with the Daves. 

Thanks mine is a old one , I have just emailed him today as by coincidence, I have just seen his comment re a revised chassis on his web site asking for a price . That is the main reason mine has sat in a drawer for a long time !. I also have to roll the Boiler having just acquired a set of rollers.

[Porcy Mane]

Unfortunately, my first J27 is in Pickering earning its keep on my dad's layout. And the second is not at a stage where a photo would edify anyone - boiler and smokebox only. I've put it to one side trying to get the D20 done for Christmas for my dad.... 

Ahhh. It's that J27. I should have twigged from you moniker.

 

P

[Daddyman]

Fame at last!

Yes, the J27 in the NE Express, that's right. 

The second J27 will feature at some stage in 2016, but it's all hands on deck for the D20 for the February Express at the moment. Deadline December 20-something and 43 jobs still to do! Oh, no, 44 - forgot the BR numberplate!  

You're a member, I take it, Porcy? [Cue secret handshake] 

[Daddyman]

Thanks mine is a old one , I have just emailed him today as by coincidence, I have just seen his comment re a revised chassis on his web site asking for a price . That is the main reason mine has sat in a drawer for a long time !. I also have to roll the Boiler having just acquired a set of rollers.

Good idea. The one in the old kit was hard! 

You'll be fine with rollers. I did it with a "small brass assist jig", not ideal, I suppose, but G.W. Models rollers for Crimbo. I annealed the boiler. Sorry, but I'm a serial annealer... 

[Bon Accord]

"Frankly Charlotte ................"

 

Presumably you mean Scarlett. However, the actual quote from the film begins "Frankly, my dear.....".

[Daddyman]

That's what I thought, but I don't get it in context. Just thought he was quoting the Sparks song and smiled to myself. 

[Ian Hargrave]

Presumably you mean Scarlett. However, the actual quote from the film begins "Frankly, my dear.....".

Rhett Butler( Clarke Gable) to Scarlett O Hara ( Vivienne Leigh ) Film : "Gone With The Wind" .....a title appropriate for some....maybe?

[Porcy Mane]

You're a member, I take it, Porcy? [Cue secret handshake] 

Secret handshake reciprocated.

Some would use the term "member" in more ways than one.  >?)

 

P

[Daddyman]

Mick, found some photos for you. First one shows the chassis dodge I had to adopt. Penultimate shows my design for removable brake gear on the tender. Last one shows the preserved Q6 at Grosmont (so not completely off topic!), so that you (or anyone else) can see the relationship between the coal rails and the faring.  

 

[DougN]

Looking very nice there. Had not thought of doing that to the brake gear. I first built a J27 in 1998 and I think still hold the most unusual place that Dave has ever posted one. Kokopo, East New Britain Province, PNG. I was working there with a construction company building schools. Any how since then I have built the B1, Q6 and another J26 is under way at the moment... along with a V2 from Martin Finney.. most of the tender is complete now but not started on the Loco.  I hope you find the new chassis design easier from Dave. I spoke to him at Scalefourum in 2014 when I was showing the Q6 at the stage I had got up too. I found the new design very easy to build... but that was to P4. 

 

I see the lamp irons have suffered the usual problem, too vulnerable during the heavy build part.

 

interesting photo of the tender to the Q6. If we did that detail in the model I think we would say it is bad building... it is a problem of Art not imitating life!  

[Porcy Mane]

Some would use the term "member" in more ways than one.  >?)

 

P

To quote myself thus allowing a reply to Mr Axlebox who hit he agree button to my reply above:

 

Thank you for your support. It has been fumigated and returned to the Nation. It is available for viewing as an exhibit in the National Museum of Microscopic Surgical Appliances.

 

P

[Mod4]

Can I please remind members that this thread should be about the Hornby Q6 please can we keep on topic.

[The Black Hat]

Hornby have indeed surprised many by the sudden appearance of the Raven machine on the front of their cover for the handbook next year. Soon followed by samples seen at Warley and the flood of press statements afterwards. Already the news of the Q6 has sent shockwaves through the market. Firstly that a mainstream company was planning for sometime to be heading North of York and seems set on adding to the range there further, but secondly that a start up company that is seeking to gain momentum has had its idea and belief mirrored by a larger competitor.

 

The withdrawal of the DJM Q6 is indeed a sad cost of duplication, but perhaps far better to be stopping now and diverting funds towards projects that will bring a return and allow DJM to flourish.  

 

Yet, for all this bittersweet news is still causing events, to suddenly bemoan the development of Hornby's model further seems both selfish and presumptuous. If you want to have a self imposed embargo then fine, but others here that really want a Q6, and for this to be the first of many as entry into the North East in RTR form. I do not and never have understood that just because kits of admittedly good quality are available means that this area should be a no go area in terms of RTR. If thats true then Industrial shunters, Radial tanks, and god knows what else should not be done either as a perfectly good kit will be done or available. Kits are there for those that want to build them, and RTR is there for those that want to buy an engine in that form and run it. 

 

Its also perhaps a bad choice to take issue with Hornby's finish on products and quality control on an engine that certainly does create opinion and for some is really wanted. Now we only have the Hornby Q6 to go for and while we know these issues are there, its not detracting me from wanting the model. Far from it. I really want this Q6. Lots of them. 

 

Instead of retreating to what seems like a bunker mentality, I and many others who have campaigned for the Q6 has the vanguard into the north will no doubt rejoice that the North East is finally being served and will welcome the news that deep down such a view has been shared by a established mainstream manufacturer for some time. This I think is time to learn from the developments that the projects creating the Q6 have created and for those of us that like the north it gives hope that in future there will be more to follow. 

 

Hope you enjoy that like the rest of us. 

[Les1952]

Personally, I have no fears about getting a Q6 with a straight running plate.

 

That on my K1 is straight as a die.  Indeed I consider my best OO r-t-r locos to be my K1 and DJM Beattie (though I have high hopes for my forthcomimg DJM saddletanks.

 

I will be getting a Q6 at some stage, though I'm not pre-ordering.  I'll wait until Ian & Neil at Sherwood have them in stock.

 

Les

 

 

To add a comment to the post above (which appeared while I was typing the above).  I have built loco kits- badly- before being diagnosed as dyspraxic, which explains why I couldn't make them good enough to satisfy me.  The last kitbuilt loco I acquired cost me £200 (at mates rate) to have made. To run locos from my native North East I need good r-t-r. 

 

Put another way, the fact I CAN get J25, J26, J27 and D20 locos ready to run in N is a primary reason why I model the North-East in N as my major modelling.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Les1952

[micklner]

Mick, found some photos for you. First one shows the chassis dodge I had to adopt. Penultimate shows my design for removable brake gear on the tender. Last one shows the preserved Q6 at Grosmont (so not completely off topic!), so that you (or anyone else) can see the relationship between the coal rails and the faring.  

 

P1030795.jpg

P1030983.jpg

P1030987.jpg

P1350250.jpg

P1350369.jpg

P1040604.jpg

Thanks for the photos very useful for the build. Perhaps a J27 thread will be good ? I will post some of my build in due course . Might give Bachmann some ideas before Hornby jump on the highest rating LNER Loco in the recent poll !!.