Dapol Black Label Range

[Les1952]

Why would you need a traction tyre on a Loco driver when it has a die cast body? Bizarre !!

 

Given it has a metal body and plenty of weight already it should pull a very heavy train without a traction tyre.  Perhaps there are people out there who want to put a wartime load of very heavy non-free-wheeling coaches behind it......

 

Alternately you could describe the extra wheelset as belt & braces..

 

Les

[srihaggis]

Well what can I say, I saw a few reviews on YouTube for this model, for saying I keep telling my self, no more steam (I'm a mostly modern image modeller), I took a drive over to Dapol on Thursday to pick one of these fine machines up.

 

From what I can see, it is a very good example and as a former die-cast collector of road vehicles, it is a very pleasing change to see a locomotive in diecast. Instantly noticible is the omission of the mould line that you would get on injection moulding along the top of the boiler that most manufacturers try to hide with paint, very nicely done indeed.

 

Had mine running earlier on a 3ft test track, once you get to grips with how to drive the loco off with the relevent sound functions, it is a great machine, just missing the steam at the bottom by the smaller front wheels (not sure what their called). If they could tool that into their next project it'd be the bees knees! The sounds on it are pretty good too. Factory delivery of the sound level is just about right for me, not too loud (apart from the safety valves obviousally), and the running is very smooth. The Coupling Sound is a bit hit and miss though (F13 i think), sometimes works most of the time doesn't, however i'm not fussed.

 

 

The only thing the manual doesn't seem to cover, is how do we know when the loco has ran out of smoke-oil? I know the obvious answer would be when it stops producing smoke, however the manual does say do not allow the smoke generator to run dry, but do not over fill it. This is a bit of a catch 22 scenario. Any tips on how to overcome this would be appreciated.

[MrB]

Got a bit of a shock yesterday, opened the box from Dapol expecting two A4s....... and found one, Silver Fox only and no Golden Eagle. Phoned Dapol and they are not in the country yet as they required further work. Did worry as been billed for two but only got one with no explaination.

 

Regards

 

Roy

[Theakerr]

I read a review stating that the Cartazi axle can be set up as a bogie unit or a fixed unit.  Is this correct and if so how do they do it such that on the fixed unit there is no daylight between it and the loco body?

[srihaggis]

Can't comment about the daylight between loco body, but the model comes supplied with a cartzi truck set up to swivel, but the model also comes with a replacement truck in the box, which if fitted is of a fixed position.

[Karhedron]

but is it really better then the Hornby A4 aside from a load of gimmicks?

The difference between a feature and a gimmick is largely in the eye of the beholder. I dislike sound fitted locos as they just sound unconvincing to me because of the way sound should change with distance. However enough people obviously like this feature as it seems to be worthwhile for manufacturers to to offer it is a factory-fitted option.

 

Horses for courses.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... Personally I see why people have bought them (the smoke, light features and sound add up for a very unique model, even by most DCC models in recent years), but is it really better than the Hornby A4 aside from a load of gimmicks?

Horses for courses.

Analyse it as a product, it will be a little more expensive to manufacture than a sound fitted A4, thanks to extra features. But it is a lot better than a sound equipped Hornby A4 because it sells at £400 instead of circa £200. That's what 'all the bells and whistles' products are about, enhanced profit.

 

At least in this case you do actually get something different in the box, unlike the supermarket ploy of putting 'Taste the Finest' on the packaging, and then charging three or four times the money for the same item labelled 'ordinary'.

 

Is it better? Depends on your priorities. It doesn't look any more like a duck than the most convincing other duck already available (which I can get to pull a 2.5kg load thanks to my willingness to install lead within) so to me it isn't. But others will feel differently. Generally a choice in options is evidence of  strength in a market, so I see the availabilty of such an option as good news, even if it is of no direct interest to myself.

[jjb1970]

I applaud Dapol for this initiative. I am not an enthusiast of sound, like some others I just do not find it convincing and consider it more of an irritant than an enhancement. I also think some of the other features are gimmicks. However, choice is good, clearly a lot of people do like sound and the other features will be well recieved by many. In an icreasingly congested market Dapol seem to be about the only company that is really trying to offer something different as opposed to the marginal gains type differentiators in the rest of the market. Would I buy one? If they did a Merchant Navy or BoB/WC (either air smoothed or re-built), Castle or Duchess then possibly just to have the opportunity to see how I thought about all the features after a chance to live with the model. Either way I like the fact that Dapol have had what it takes to do this, take a risk and do something other than just look for new bragging rights for things done the same way as the rest of the market. Good for them I say.

[Theakerr]

I cannot but think a "bespoke" approach might have been better for a model at this price.  Specifically a basic high quality model made in China or wherever and a set of specific options that are applied in the UK based on prepaid (deposit) orders.  For example i do not run DCC and as such have zero interest in this or any other model equipped with DCC.  I could be interested in lights but they could be set up using some sort of input device other than DCC, e.g a USB or bluetooth hookup.  In the future there might well be a model that I would be prepared to pay a premium price if I could get it "my way".  This premium would include the cost of making it to my specific requirements.  For example lets say a D11 in LNER colours with the name Ypres and no DCC.  Just my thoughts.

[jjb1970]

The cost of genuinely bespoke products is very high. I suspect that the market for such bespoke models is too small to make it worthwhile for a mainstream OO RTR manufacturer to give it a go, orat least it'd be too small if models were sold at the prices that'd be necessary to turn a profit. Even high end brass suppliers tend to work in small batches rather than being bespoke although it becomes something you see offered in the larger scales.

[Clearwater]

Analyse it as a product, it will be a little more expensive to manufacture than a sound fitted A4, thanks to extra features. But it is a lot better than a sound equipped Hornby A4 because it sells at £400 instead of circa £200. That's what 'all the bells and whistles' products are about, enhanced profit.

 

At least in this case you do actually get something different in the box, unlike the supermarket ploy of putting 'Taste the Finest' on the packaging, and then charging three or four times the money for the same item labelled 'ordinary'.

 

Is it better? Depends on your priorities. It doesn't look any more like a duck than the most convincing other duck already available (which I can get to pull a 2.5kg load thanks to my willingness to install lead within) so to me it isn't. But others will feel differently. Generally a choice in options is evidence of  strength in a market, so I see the availabilty of such an option as good news, even if it is of no direct interest to myself.

A long way up,this thread, I remarked that you can get a quasi price comparison if you look at Olivia's or TMC's websites. If you start with a base loco (£175) add sound (£120), add firebox flicker (say £25), lights (£25), smoke (£35), you're in the price ball park of these.

 

David

[jjb1970]

In terms of price, whilst these are not cheap I do not see what Dapol are charging as being outrageous. I think its pretty much what I'd expect in todays market.

[MGR Hooper!]

A long way up,this thread, I remarked that you can get a quasi price comparison if you look at Olivia's or TMC's websites. If you start with a base loco (£175) add sound (£120), add firebox flicker (say £25), lights (£25), smoke (£35), you're in the price ball park of these.

 

David

Also bear in mid the Dapol BL A4 is a diecast model, so the price of the model will be £200+, sound does obviously use one decoder but two speakers so that'll be more than the estimate and I think £150 (decoder + 2 speakers)., firebox flickr £25, lights £25 and smoke £35. That's around £435 +/- £30 or so.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

A question for any black labeller. Have you tried the alternative fixed Cartazzi frames; and if then operated with a flanged wheelset, what's the minimum radius requirement (both manufacturer's suggestion and own experience if possible)?

[MrB]

A question for any black labeller. Have you tried the alternative fixed Cartazzi frames; and if then operated with a flanged wheelset, what's the minimum radius requirement (both manufacturer's suggestion and own experience if possible)?

Not tried the movable cartazzi truck, but the manual states fixed for 3rd radii or greater.

All wheel sets are flanged drivers or otherwise, The spare drive wheel set with tyres & flanges are for hauls greater than 2.5kg (as per manual)

 

Hope that helps,

 

Regards

 

Roy

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

A question for any black labeller. Have you tried the alternative fixed Cartazzi frames; and if then operated with a flanged wheelset, what's the minimum radius requirement (both manufacturer's suggestion and own experience if possible)?

 Anyone else? Preferably who has fitted the fixed Cartazzi frame option to their A4 and then tested it to see what the minimum radius capability is?

[MrB]

Got another box from Dapol expecting Golden Eagle which it was, packaged sightly differently with the cab rubber cover in the box not fitted.

Further more I found another £299 had been billed to my name, so far I have been charged £1102 for two locos. Been on the phone to the Dapol Shop waiting the outcome.

If you have been in the same sitation please check to see if you have been billed twice for 1 loco.

 

Regards

 

Roy

[amwells]

I emailed asking if any available... no response. Will phone at some point!

[MrB]

Got another box from Dapol expecting Golden Eagle which it was, packaged sightly differently with the cab rubber cover in the box not fitted.

Further more I found another £299 had been billed to my name, so far I have been charged £1102 for two locos. Been on the phone to the Dapol Shop waiting the outcome.

If you have been in the same sitation please check to see if you have been billed twice for 1 loco.

 

Regards

 

Roy

Problem sorted by Dapol, refund issued for the over charging.

[tetsudofan]

Yesterday noted that my credit card had been charged with the balance due on the green LNER version so phoned Dapol to ask which courier service they will be using for the delivery.

 

The guy on the phone advised me that they use Interlink, asked for my address details and asked me to hold the line for a moment and then advised me that the package would be delivered between 1.15pm and 2.15pm.........and at 1.30pm Interlink were knocking on the front door.

 

Not had a chance to get the loco on the track but had to smile at the layout of the "Owner's Manual" - it follows the format of that produced by Broadway Limited even going as far as telling you that pressing F1 turns on the bell    .

 

Must admit, at first viewing, the model does look impressive. Just waiting to see how many Pullman cars it can take up my gradients......

 

Keith

[Stevelewis]

Hi  Keith

 

Keep us  posted

 

Lookin' forward  to  hearing  the  Bell!!

 

Steve 

[Stevelewis]

In terms of price, whilst these are not cheap I do not see what Dapol are charging as being outrageous. I think its pretty much what I'd expect in todays market.

 

Its  not  expensive  for  what  it  is,  and  consider  also  it  will not  be  perceived  as  a  volume seller,  take  a  look  at  prices  for  Continental  Outline mass produced   steam  locos!

Edited April 9, 2017 by Stevelewis

[trussel]

I've had a very disappointing experience with the Golden Eagle. The first model sent to me had a fault 'straight from the box'. Within seconds of placing it on the track the DCC power cut-out. There was sound from the tender briefly before the power cut-out. I tried again just in case I hadn't placed it on the track correctly. The same thing happened although that time with a smell of burning.

 

I returned the model to Dapol and they sent a replacement. This worked ok for about a week (apart from the occasional sudden slow down and start up again, which I put down to dirty track). I was running the model as usual when it just stopped. The functions (smoke, sound etc. continued to work) but the train wouldn't move. There was a whine from the motor as if it and the drive shaft had become detached.

 

The replacement will be going back to Dapol and I have requested a refund. I appreciate that occasionally you can be unlucky but for the replacement model to develop a fault as well after very little use does concern me.

 

I noticed on the Dapol website (Digest forum) that a few people have had problems with the Golden Eagle.

 

It's such a shame as I really liked the appearance and functions of the model but at £400 didn't expect the problems I've experienced.

[Darius43]

I've had a very disappointing experience with the Golden Eagle. The first model sent to me had a fault 'straight from the box'. Within seconds of placing it on the track the DCC power cut-out. There was sound from the tender briefly before the power cut-out. I tried again just in case I hadn't placed it on the track correctly. The same thing happened although that time with a smell of burning.

 

I returned the model to Dapol and they sent a replacement. This worked ok for about a week (apart from the occasional sudden slow down and start up again, which I put down to dirty track). I was running the model as usual when it just stopped. The functions (smoke, sound etc. continued to work) but the train wouldn't move. There was a whine from the motor as if it and the drive shaft had become detached.

 

The replacement will be going back to Dapol and I have requested a refund. I appreciate that occasionally you can be unlucky but for the replacement model to develop a fault as well after very little use does concern me.

 

I noticed on the Dapol website (Digest forum) that a few people have had problems with the Golden Eagle.

 

It's such a shame as I really liked the appearance and functions of the model but at £400 didn't expect the problems I've experienced.

I have had the same problem with my Black Label "Golden Eagle" - it ran OK and then just stopped and made a noise like the drive train had failed. It's gone back to DCC Supplies for repair under the guarantee.

 

Darius

[trussel]

I have had the same problem with my Black Label "Golden Eagle" - it ran OK and then just stopped and made a noise like the drive train had failed. It's gone back to DCC Supplies for repair under the guarantee.

 

Darius

 

Personally I would insist on a replacement rather than a repair. I hope the repaired loco works ok (and lasts!). I can't help thinking there is either a design fault with the Golden Eagle or issues with the standard of manufacturing. I've bought loads of loco's over the years from Hornby, Bachmann etc. and I've never had issues like this (and never paid as much either!).