hayfield Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 Dave Most use RTR flexitrack which is of course 16.5, there are those of us who subscribe to flare the gauge back within the turnout, others do this with plain track. I use 16.2 through the common crossing, through the last 3 sleepers at the heal end and 5 sleepers to the middle (rail joint) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 Used a 16.5 gauge to make the flare from the common crossing at the heal end, and fixed the other end till the arrow as I need the rest of the rail loose As I am using all the special switch chairs to set where the rails go, this is the sequence needed The straight switch rail is stuck in place up to the rail join Next the inside pieces of 2 block chairs fitted as this sets the gauge from the stock rail Now the 2 centre parts of the block chairs are fitted, now leave to set whilst waiting make the other switch rail. This overhead view clesrly shows both block chairs As you can see we are using the chairs to set the rails. More tomorrow as I am knackered Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 I look forward to the next installment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 The curved switch rail has been added, the crossing is 16.2 so the first chair is fitted to that gauge. We will gage from the stock rail up to the arrow Next I use the standard 16.5 mm roller gauge up to the arrow Now from the other side, the rail is fitted to the block chairs, the other stock rail now will hopefully be in gauge when pushed against the block chairs on the straight switch rail. As the stock rail needs to be gauged with the switch rail I will let the first set of chairs on the curved switch rail set hard, so now I will make the check rails Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 My maths were awful about the ply timbers, they cost £8.50 for 50 x 29cm. This is enough for appx 14 turnouts, so the amount used is about 61p Back to the basics Plastic fret £2.43 Rail £1.32 3 bolt chairs £1.70 Bridge chairs £0.43 Slide chairs £1.19 Check Chairs £1.35 Crossing Chairs £1.15 Switch Chairs £2.25 Fishplates £0.50 To date I have spent £12.32 on parts plus a few pence spent on a couple of etched fishplates, solvent, flux and solder. I think if you compared this turnout against a ready to lay large radius point, the costings must be similar, and hardly done any extensive engineering, just a couple of pleasant (for me) hours modelling. I must admit to being a modeller rather than a player Using ply timbers would bring the cost down. I need to work out the tiebar, a piece of copperclad is very little and a couple of brass slide chairs are £1.70. Now as you can see if you are going to make a few turnouts then buying the components is the best way to go. You could reduce the cost by not using the switch and crossing chairs, but the level of detail would be less. Other than soldering the Vee and the bonding/dropper wires the rails have been held in place with chairs. Whilst my filing jigs makes life much easier they are not essential. Gauge(s) are a must but no other special tools are needed. Now off to make the check rails Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 are you cutting up C&L P4 check chairs ? dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 are you cutting up C&L P4 check chairs ? dave Dave NO, I have said before here and on two other threads, whilst C&L in Bristol and the main stand are out of stock. The London stand has supplies of 0.8 mm check chairs. The London stand is at Southampton show today and tomorrow and Phil still had a few packets after St Albans show. He has no facility to do mail order and I doubt if any can be returned to Bristol HQ, if you cannot get to Southampton try asking a RMweb member to pick some up for you Doubt if the new stock will be too far away to be re-stocked, for some reason Peter has to see the injection moulders as there is an issue with the mould I think I said you may be able to use the P4 ones (they are the 0.64 mm marked S4 on the rear of the sprue) I have a feeling I may have used the odd sprue in error in the past as I do use the 0.8 for DOGA intermediate which has a 1.25 mm check gap. At worst you may need to use a tiny bit of filler. I don't bother with filling the gap in 00 intermediate as it still looks far superior than cut up standard chairs One thing I may offer a few RMwebbers once supplies are back to normal, is a small pack at cost + postage of a set of check chairs, a set of 1-5, 1-6 or 1-10 (I have a few of these spare) crossing chairs, a few bridge chairs and a few plastic fishplates. All the builder requires are the timbers, standard chairs, slide chairs which most would either have in a kit or buy separately, and if required they can buy a pack of switch chairs (they come in 2's anyway) from C+L. Happy to help out those wanting to dip their toe in the water. If anyone lives near me happy to help out where I can Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 This shows the dodge in fitting the 0.8 mm check chairs, thread 3 check chairs on to the check rail and cut through the unused part (keep the chairs) On the right you can see the check rails being fitted using check rail gauges, the chairs seem to expand nearly to 1 mm anyway The centre roller gauge makes sure the 4 chairs left of the arrow are to gauge (to the curved switch rail), as it happens the block chairs have separated the curved rails (switch & stock) to 16.5 mm as required. The 2 left hand roller gauges hold the last 2 chairs in gauge. Don't glue the slide chairs yet, let all set hard first Now using a roller gauge with a flat filed on the outer rim place it next to the stock gauge (arrow makes the red line clearer) and glue the slide chairs. This sets the set angle correctly Overhead view showing the different chairs, just need to build the chaired slide chair (PL2)on the curved stock rail, then make and fit the sleeper acting as the tiebar The first thing is all the chairs are acting functionally. No real special tools used, and at a skill level most could easily copy. (I think I should send a kit to Coachman, looking at what he does with coaches he could do this in his sleep (sorry Larry))I am beginning to think its actually easier than soldering copperclad turnouts Please fire away with any questions you may have, this is so easy to do but I find it difficult to explain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Thanks John , great stuff Sometimes it's hard to follow , but I think the best way is to try it. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Hi John, I was looking at the C&L pre-assembled B-6 turnout and I count a total of 32 timbers. That might be a bit too many for a B-6 in 00. I think it should be 29. On the other hand, a P4 B-6 would have 32 timbers. Do you happen to have a 00 B-6 template? Cheers! Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 Hi John, I was looking at the C&L pre-assembled B-6 turnout and I count a total of 32 timbers. That might be a bit too many for a B-6 in 00. I think it should be 29. On the other hand, a P4 B-6 would have 32 timbers. You don't suppose the photo on the website might actually be a P4 turnout? Cheers! Andy Andy This is my photo of the 00 gauge turnout, don't think its a standard C&L plan 32 sleepers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 You got me Bugsy! (I edited my post ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 The C&L P4 & 00 B6 plans have 31 sleepers Exactoscale A6 in P4 has 29 sleepers Templot 00 gauge has 28 sleepers, though 1 shorter after the Vee Looking at it its not a normal C&P plan, could be one of the builders own designs ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Thanks John! Very interesting. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 Templot is 28 sleepers C&L has 31 sleepers in both 00 & P4 Exactoscale A6 plan 29 sleepers (add 1 sleeper for a B switch (30)) Martin will explain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Martin will explain That's what I'm afraid of (I hope he knows I'm just kidding) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 Why arn't you in bed ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted February 7, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7, 2016 Martin will explain I know nothing. I wasn't even there. The original C&L 00 templates are 7:8 reductions of the P4 templates, so they have exactly the same number of timbers. In other words they are 3.5mm/ft drawings of REA 4ft-8.5in pointwork (with a few minor errors -- the crossing chairs are shown square-on to the timbers instead of being skewed to the centre-line of the crossing). I don't know how they compare with the latest Exactoscale 00 templates. By default the Templot 00 templates are 4mm/ft diagrams of REA 4ft-1.5in pointwork. If you want the equivalent of the C&L templates in Templot, select H0 in the gauge list instead of 00. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I know nothing. I wasn't even there. The original C&L 00 templates are 7:8 reductions of the P4 templates, so they have exactly the same number of timbers. In other words they are 3.5mm/ft drawings of REA 4ft-8.5in pointwork (with a few minor errors -- the crossing chairs are shown square-on to the timbers instead of being skewed to the centre-line of the crossing). I don't know how they compare with the latest Exactoscale 00 templates. By default the Templot 00 templates are 4mm/ft diagrams of REA 4ft-1.5in pointwork. If you want the equivalent of the C&L templates in Templot, select H0 in the gauge list instead of 00. regards, Martin. Hi Martin, That is very interesting. And it is clearly labeled 'OO' too. No wonder people get confused The proportions look about right which suggests that the timbers might not be 4 mm wide either. Thanks and regards, Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share Posted February 8, 2016 One of my favourite US shows, Shultz was hilarious, I often use that saying and it goes over the heads of most Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed Driver Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 This is possibly the wrong topic to ask this question but as there are members here building points some one may know the answer. What is the standard (recommended) movement for the switch blades? There is no mention of this in the EM gauge society notes. I have also spoken with members of the 2mm fs group and again they have no set standard. I seem to remember from BR drawings a setting of 5" ie 1.66mm in P4 The usual reply I get when asking the question is " same as the check rails" whick is obviously wrong as there is no angled lead in on the switch blades. Over to you Norman PS I model in EM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 Norman Martin always recommends a 20p piece to set the switch blades, there is a trade off between prototypical and operational Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted February 9, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2016 This is possibly the wrong topic to ask this question but as there are members here building points some one may know the answer. What is the standard (recommended) movement for the switch blades? Hi Norman, The prototypical switch opening is 4.1/4" at the tips, which in 4mm/ft scales to 1.42mm. The minimum clearance required all along behind the open blade is 2". However, because of the need in EM and 4-SF (00-SF) to have a wider than scale flangeway all along behind the open blade (1.0mm = 3"), the usual practice is to make the opening 1.75mm, which is easily set using the thickness of a 20p coin. In P4 you can get closer to a scale opening, say 1.5mm. For 00-BF and 00-Intermediate, an opening of 2mm is usual. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed Driver Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Thanks Martin. I still find it strange that none of the fine scale societies have this info in their standards. Norman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted February 9, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2016 Thanks Martin. I still find it strange that none of the fine scale societies have this info in their standards. Hi Norman, It is discussed on page 103 of the 2mm Scale Association's handbook on Track. But the dimension given there as 4.1/2" is incorrect (it should be 4.1/4", see page 82 of BRT3, and other REA drawings), and the suggested 0.7mm dimension for 2mm scale is described as "somewhat overscale" when in fact it is underscale at 2mm/ft. It is easy to see why folks get confused. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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