C+L 00 gauge ready to lay turnout

[hayfield]

At St Albans I was able to take a close look at both the new ready to lay 00 gauge turnout and the 00 gauge thicker base plain track

 

 

The turnout as expected is made to a high standard and is nicely finished. Plastic sleeper base (Thin type to match C+L and SMP flexitracks). The chairs seem to be the Exactoscale 3 bolt (S1). Check way and flange way gaps look to be in the region of 1.25 mm wide. The dropper wires have been very neatly made and the tiebar is the 3 rd sleeper, seems to be firmly constructed (no idea of how its fixed) but is kept at the same height as all the other sleepers. Exactoscale plastic functional fishplates (6) are used in all the correct places

 

I will up load a few more close up shots later

 

The C+L thicker base plain track is made up lengths of the Exactoscale fastrack bases, This is my preferred track base as it has the thicker sleepers (1.6 mm) and matches the height of Peco track. It sold out very quickly at the show, which  is testiment to what the public wants, sadly many missed seeing the product close up

[Richard Lee]

Thanks for that, John.

 

Just as a matter of interest (I can't afford them ), what standard is it built to?  Is it DOGA Fine, OO-SF, DOGA Intermediate for instance?  It probably says on the label, but I can't read the smaller letters on the picture that you posted.

[gordon s]

Morning John.  Thanks for posting that.  They are very expensive (£108) and I'm still trying to decide if they are value for money.  I certainly couldn't afford them at that price, but appreciate how much work goes into making a chaired turnout.

 

http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=346_375_377_1082

[hayfield]

Thanks for that, John.

 

Just as a matter of interest (I can't afford them ), what standard is it built to?  Is it DOGA Fine, OO-SF, DOGA Intermediate for instance?  It probably says on the label, but I can't read the smaller letters on the picture that you posted.

 

Richard

 

Looks like DOGA intermediate, Flangeways about 1.25 mm as are the check rail gaps

 

What these have shown me is that in 4 mm scale you do not need a stand alone or soldered together common crossing, as the wing/closure rails are held in place with chairs. So for those who dislike soldering making a Vee is quite simple, or buying a pre-made Vee is cheaper than a common crossing. It is getting close to building an Airfix plastic kit. I will up load a few more photos soon 

[hayfield]

 

Hopefully a bit clearer now cropped

 

 

The switch end, the timbers with slide chairs are stuck to a piece of plastic or card, look carefully at sleeper no3 its the tiebar. The slide chairs have no chairs, just slide bases (2 each side)

 

 

Close up of the common crossing, 2 slide chairs under the Vee nose and either bridge or small chairs used. Still have not worked out how the switch blades are connected to the tiebar/sleeper

 

 

Closer vies of the switch, I think the tie rods have wipers under for electrical bonding. The stock rails have recesses filed into them

 

 

Showing how both the switch blades and stock rails are in 2 pieces, Exactoscale plastic fishplates used. The droppers are very neat and also act as electrical bonding wires between the closure and stock rails.

 

This is quite thought provoking in not using ready built common crossings. Just need to cut and bend accurately.  

[hayfield]

Morning John.  Thanks for posting that.  They are very expensive (£108) and I'm still trying to decide if they are value for money.  I certainly couldn't afford them at that price, but appreciate how much work goes into making a chaired turnout.

 

http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=346_375_377_1082

 

Gordon

 

I think for the station part of your layout especially as copperclad timbers are so expensive you might find ply timbers with chairs an alternative where component costs are similar, not pre-building common crossings may save quite a bit of time. Perhaps sometimes we over engineer things. A couple of thoughts are weering around the empty void between my ears. You never know some of the most die-hard RTR users may even consider this non soldering (except for the Vee) approach

[Jeff Smith]

John - surely this seems very similar to the way I built some P4 turnouts years ago however with ply sleepers and C&L chairs.  Also I'm certain I had a pre-soldered V.  Please explain pre-building the common crossing, I'm not sure what you mean?

[AndyID]

108 GBP a pop

 

Two of them would cover the cost of my 3D printer

[BlackRat]

Well, they are hand built, the kits are £48 so basically you are paying £60 for someone's skill to build it for you.

 

How much would you pay a sparky? Or a plumber?

 

I don't think they are that expensive .........when you take that into account.

[hayfield]

Jeff

 

The Vee is still soldered together, but the accepted method to date is to add both wing/closurer rails soldered to either 0.5 mm shim or copperclad strip

 

 

 

Best photos I could find at short notice

 

Thin strips of copperclad have been soldered to the rails where the X, A & B sleepers are , This keeps the rails in gauge, the material is filed flush with the outside of the rails so chair halves can be added

 

 

This is a plain Vee, no wing or closure rails added. Its quite easy to file and solder together a Vee, but soldering the wing/closure rails at the correct gauge defeats some modellers. No functional chairs are available to do this, but it seems the use of slightly different chairs do the job. Now I have a few ideas to do it slightly differently. I have a few bits to do first though

[Jeff Smith]

John, OK I understand. This is not how I did it. A while ago now but mine look just like the RTR kit built example. The point rails are not hinged, they just flex but of course in P4 there is very little movement.

 

I can't precisely remember the order of construction but was probably - V attached first, then stock rails over the plan but obviously gauged at the toe end and from the V. Then the rest added according to the gauges.

[AndyID]

Well, they are hand built, the kits are £48 so basically you are paying £60 for someone's skill to build it for you.

 

How much would you pay a sparky? Or a plumber?

 

I don't think they are that expensive .........when you take that into account.

 

It does make sense in terms of the time it takes to make one of these (I'm sure John {Hayfield} will attest to that). At that price I would be surprised if a lot of people buy them, but I'll probably be proved wrong yet again.

 

I've said in the past I have no interest in selling my 3D printed turnouts, but if C&L can command prices like that, I may have to seriously reconsider my position.

[Craigw]

It does make sense in terms of the time it takes to make one of these (I'm sure John {Hayfield} will attest to that). At that price I would be surprised if a lot of people buy them, but I'll probably be proved wrong yet again.

 

I've said in the past I have no interest in selling my 3D printed turnouts, but if C&L can command prices like that, I may have to seriously reconsider my position.

 

Don't forget that to complete your 3D printed turnout you still need to assemble and fit the crossing, other rails and file the blades and all that other stuff.

 

In addition, you would have freight from the USA (to the UK) and also (possibly) VAT. I susect that by the time you factor in your assembly time and the other items your price would not be too far removed from the price C&L are charging.

 

If you want someone to build something for you it is only reasonable to accept that they will be charging labour rates that are applicable to your country. They are not, after all, employed as cheap labour in China.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[AndyID]

Don't forget that to complete your 3D printed turnout you still need to assemble and fit the crossing, other rails and file the blades and all that other stuff.

 

In addition, you would have freight from the USA (to the UK) and also (possibly) VAT. I susect that by the time you factor in your assembly time and the other items your price would not be too far removed from the price C&L are charging.

 

If you want someone to build something for you it is only reasonable to accept that they will be charging labour rates that are applicable to your country. They are not, after all, employed as cheap labour in China.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

 

Hi Craig,

 

I wasn't necessarily thinking that the price would be less. 3D printing allows each turnout to be made to a custom design. The price for bespoke turnouts might be considerably higher, and even though they might be designed by yours truly in the USA, they could be printed and assembled in the UK.

 

Cheers!

Andy

[Bulwell Hall]

Well, they are hand built, the kits are £48 so basically you are paying £60 for someone's skill to build it for you.

 

How much would you pay a sparky? Or a plumber?

 

I don't think they are that expensive .........when you take that into account.

 Quite agree - try paying a solicitor or an accountant £15.00 an hour and see what response you get!  And whoever said that model railways has to be cheap?

[The Bigbee Line]

When working things out its best to work on £50 per hour. So if something is £25 and it takes 8 hours to make. It's cheap. People can't work for a loss.

The old adage. There are 3 things. "Good" "cheap" "quick". You can only have 2, never all 3

[BlackRat]

Now there's an opening.....buy lots of kits........bulk discount (?) .......ship them to India........have them built.......

 

Someone's bound to do it

[Captain Kernow]

With the kits retailing at £48 each, are the crossings ready-assembled and are the blades ready machined/planed?

[Junctionmad]

I have the new C&L plain thick sleeper track , very good it is as the exactoscale  bases are very finely detailed, the only issues being flash on the sleeper ends, will mean I have to trim most of the sleepers.

 

as to their new plastic custom turnouts, I cant actually see how C&L can build a complete functional chaired turnout , they dont have the correct check rail of crossing chairs set up for DOGA intermediate ( or fine either ). Hence the chairs must be a cut and shut job on these turnouts and there surely the V must be soldered 

 

 

dave

[gordon s]

Like most, I was staggered by the price of £108 and looked at in isolation or compared to Peco, it is more expensive than anything that has been on the market before.  

 

However, my wife has wanted to replace a worn out rug for some time now, so off we went to John Lewis.  Cost me £76 to fill up my car before we left and the new rug was £425.  I can't see how a wool rug can cost £425 and every time I walk on it I will see four handmade turnouts.  Compared to other rugs on display, it was in the lower to mid price range.

 

I know which would give me more pleasure...

[Junctionmad]

Like most, I was staggered by the price of £108 and looked at in isolation or compared to Peco, it is more expensive than anything that has been on the market before.  

 

However, my wife has wanted to replace a worn out rug for some time now, so off we went to John Lewis.  Cost me £76 to fill up my car before we left and the new rug was £425.  I can't see how a wool rug can cost £425 and every time I walk on it I will see four handmade turnouts.  Compared to other rugs on display, it was in the lower to mid price range.

 

I know which would give me more pleasure...

let her buy a few more, then you'll have no issue when you drop a few thou on the layout !

 

in my case , Im helping her buy her first brand new car, I expect no issues with the layout spend over the next 2 years !!!

 

Dave

[Jeff Smith]

I just had another look at the C&L website.  The kits do come with pre-assembled crossings and machined point blades, and with either ply or plastic sleepers.  You could presumably save quite a bit by buying loose items and even more if you file your own point blades and make your own V.  You only need one set of gauges so you only need one kit and then buy loose items.

 

My personal opinion is that if you can build a plastic kit you can build a point kit....why pay for someone else to do it when you can have the pleasure of doing it yourself!

[BlackRat]

With the kits retailing at £48 each, are the crossings ready-assembled and are the blades ready machined/planed?

Yup, they look very nice indeed........

[hayfield]

John, OK I understand. This is not how I did it. A while ago now but mine look just like the RTR kit built example. The point rails are not hinged, they just flex but of course in P4 there is very little movement.

 

I can't precisely remember the order of construction but was probably - V attached first, then stock rails over the plan but obviously gauged at the toe end and from the V. Then the rest added according to the gauges.

 

 

It does make sense in terms of the time it takes to make one of these (I'm sure John {Hayfield} will attest to that). At that price I would be surprised if a lot of people buy them, but I'll probably be proved wrong yet again.

 

I've said in the past I have no interest in selling my 3D printed turnouts, but if C&L can command prices like that, I may have to seriously reconsider my position.

 

I think I could have clicked on a lot more replies. The cost of the C+L turnout is based both on the builders (who is one of the top builders in the country) fees, C+L's profit margin, component costs and VAT !!. If you employed one of the top loco builders to make a loco kit for you would you compare the cost with a Hornby model

 

Kits are sold under half the price and discounts published for  bulk purchase, and as said are to some extent like building a basic model air plane, as the common crossings and switch rails have been pre-made

 

Use the components and the cost per turnout is similar to the cost of a RTR turnout, but you will have to make the Vee's and switch rails yourself

 

What has really opened my eyes is the way the common crossing has been made. For years it has been thought the common crossings have to be soldered together, even belt and braces has been advised. Every sleeper must be soldered to the rail using a rivet for some.

 

Many have been using plastic chairs for 30+ years from K+L to C+L then Exactoscale and very few of the woes have come home to roost, the most common being problem with the thin plastic sleepers curling upwards once the solvent dries and shrinks.

 

Now with this turnout only the Vee has been soldered, not the common crossing. Chairs have been used to set the wing/closer rails, just cut and bend, no soldering. I understand some may not like the adaptation of the check chairs but I find this work around easier than fitting the P4 ones. Lets face it, Does it work ? Does it look good ? if yes to both fine that's what we want. Is glueing plastic chairs better than soldering the rails, again if it works then yes, especially with plastic timbers and probably with ply ones as well

 

Back to the turnout, I guess like everything the initial trail blazers are expensive, put minds to the problem and the solution may produce cheaper units. 

[Junctionmad]

 

 

Now with this turnout only the Vee has been soldered, not the common crossing. Chairs have been used to set the wing/closer rails, just cut and bend, no soldering. I understand some may not like the adaptation of the check chairs but I find this work around easier than fitting the P4 ones. Lets face it, Does it work ? Does it look good ? if yes to both fine that's what we want. Is glueing plastic chairs better than soldering the rails, again if it works then yes, especially with plastic timbers and probably with ply ones as well

John,

This still confuses me, C&L do not to my knowledge do not have appropriate chairs to hold the common crossing and the check rails at distances appropriate to DOGA intermediate . in fact they dont even have the 0.8mm chair ( which is to no accepted standard  as far as I'm aware ) in stock 

 

so this turnout must be being made by  cutting up chairs , if that is so , how is the nose of the V being held if the chair isn't correct ??

 

 

its  a pity the stock rails are being filed, too , they should either be jogged or not but not planned 

 

 

dave