Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge GWR Dean Goods

[57xx]

My replacement DG arrived from Rails today, placed it on the track. DOA. Didn't even attempt to turn a wheel! Just to make sure everything was ok with the test track, my Mainline DG took several faultless laps of the track. Applying for returns #2, now need to decided if can be bothered to see if it will be 3rd time lucky or bin off Oxford as waste of time.

[john dew]

My replacement DG arrived from Rails today, placed it on the track. DOA. Didn't even attempt to turn a wheel! Just to make sure everything was ok with the test track, my Mainline DG took several faultless laps of the track. Applying for returns #2, now need to decided if can be bothered to see if it will be 3rd time lucky or bin off Oxford as waste of time.

Same with me. Hattons sent mine to Oxford to be repaired.....faulty gear wheel/worm drive. Oxford sent it back to Hattons reporting that all was well...they changed the wheel set. When it arrived Canada....no movement at all.....took the body off and applied power to the motor terminals.......nothing......its now on its way back across the Atlantic.

 

Hopefully it will be third time lucky for me!

[BWsTrains]

Same with me. Hattons sent mine to Oxford to be repaired.....faulty gear wheel/worm drive. Oxford sent it back to Hattons reporting that all was well...they changed the wheel set. When it arrived Canada....no movement at all.....took the body off and applied power to the motor terminals.......nothing......its now on its way back across the Atlantic.

 

Hopefully it will be third time lucky for me!

Commiserations all round it seems after 57xx's latest report.

 

From debate over on the Hornby FY Results Topic it's come up that a (surprisingly) very high % of model buyers are collectors for whom poor running matters not a hoot. It does not stretch YT's credibility to believe that poor design and / or Quality Control in the current tight operating environment is just getting kicked down the road with us who want our models actually to run being the Guinea Pigs.

 

Rationale:

• Cost pressures and the need to get to market mean Manufacturers skimp
• The major retailers are "box shifters", their cost model doesn't allow for doing QC that factories should have done - why should they even when they learn from all the returns how bad these locos are operationally
• Presumably with most sales being in the UK, the big retailers low shipping and return costs are easier to wear than testing up front, especially if they can push those costs back onto suppliers for faulty models.

You'd imagine after one Transatlantic return that Hatton's would at least try to get it right 2nd time for John.

Similarly, for my Dean I requested a careful test before sending to Australia yet they sent me a dog - Cost to them - my £17 via DHL + some similar amount for DHL return plus total loss of credibility. It beggars belief that this is an efficient way to run any business but perhaps with so many collectors and tolerant UK non-collectors it works.

 

Whatever, it doesn't say much for the state of the RTR market if what we've all experienced is any measure.

 

Colin 

Edited June 26, 2018 by BWsTrains

[brian777999]

I thought locos made by all manufacturers would at least get a few runs of the test track at the factory before being shipped off but it looks like I was wrong. Surely it would not add too much to the cost of each loco to do this ? Do Hornby and Bachmann test their locos at the factory ?

Edited June 27, 2018 by brian777999

[BWsTrains]

Same with me. Hattons sent mine to Oxford to be repaired.....faulty gear wheel/worm drive. Oxford sent it back to Hattons reporting that all was well...they changed the wheel set. When it arrived Canada....no movement at all.....took the body off and applied power to the motor terminals.......nothing......its now on its way back across the Atlantic.

 

Hopefully it will be third time lucky for me!

John,

 

I've just sent you a PM on this.

 

Colin

[chuffinghell]

My Oxford Rail Dean Goods ran beautifully, quiet and smooth at very slow speeds.............but only in reverse

 

Going forward it would move about 200mm, stop, have a think then move another 200mm

 

I'm awaiting a replacement, although after reading some of the posts on here I'm beginning to think a refund may have been a better option

[57xx]

This particular one has the same problem as my 1st loco, with complete lack of QA on the tender pickups.

 

 

On the left, the front pickups actually touch the wheels. the rear pickups however are flush with the tender chassis and nowhere near the wheels! Yes, it's an easy fix, but I shouldn't have be to being that. It's very shoddy work on behalf of OR.

 

I decided to try the loco on the track again after taking the pick and to my surprise it starting moving! It did 3/4 of a lap and promptly stopped dead again. Think it might be a loose connection, I gave it a few sharp taps until it started moving again. It did several laps so I stopped it and reversed direction. Dead again! I could probably fix it, but again, why should I have to? I don't buy a new car and then spend a day tinkering with the engine just to try and get it to run. If I fix it OR are getting away with fobbing off below par quality products on the market and Rails don't know about how many of the OR locos are duff. So returns #2 is on it's way.

Edited June 28, 2018 by 57xx

[cctransuk]

This particular one has the same problem as my 1st loco, with complete lack of QA on the tender pickups.

 

Tenderpickups.JPG

 

On the left, the front pickups actually touch the wheels. the rear pickups however are flush with the tender chassis and nowhere near the wheels! Yes, it's an easy fix, but I shouldn't have be to being that. It's very shoddy work on behalf of OR.

 

I decided to try the loco on the track again after taking the pick and to my surprise it starting moving! It did 3/4 of a lap and promptly stopped dead again. Think it might be a loose connection, I gave it a few sharp taps until it started moving again. It did several laps so I stopped it and reversed direction. Dead again! I could probably fix it, but again, why should I have to? I don't buy a new car and then spend a day tinkering with the engine just to try and get it to run. If I fix it OR are getting away with fobbing off below par quality products on the market and Rails don't know about how many of the OR locos are duff. So returns #2 is on it's way.

 

For whatever reason, I'd say the rear tender pick-ups have been deliberately bent away from the wheels.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[melmerby]

For whatever reason, I'd say the rear tender pick-ups have been deliberately bent away from the wheels.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

The ones on mine were like that.

Bend them so that they make contact and the haulage capacity drops!

I have tensioned them so they barely touch, along with the front ones.

 

Keith

[chuffinghell]

I have a parcel waiting for me at home containing dean goods #2

 

If this one doesn't perform satisfactorily it will be going back for a refund instead of a replacement

 

We shouldn't really have to 'fix' brand new locos

Edited June 29, 2018 by chuffinghell

[BWsTrains]

I have a parcel waiting for me at home containing dean goods #2

 

If this one doesn't perform satisfactorily it will be going back for a refund instead of a replacement

 

We shouldn't really have to 'fix' brand new locos

Good luck, I hope you don't make it 4 of us here. Keep us posted,

 

Colin

[Silver Sidelines]

Repeating what I have already said,  my suspicion is that faulty running / non running will almost certainly be caused by broken wires in the area under the cab. I wonder what a check with a volt meter would reveal?

 

The picture from my own (working) model clearly shows cut marks in the wires where the body has been screwed down onto the wires.  I not sure why there is so much seemingly surplus wire, others might know.

 

 

Edit 29/06 Just realised the footplate and the chassis are both metal so the wires are being nipped by two pieces of metal - plenty of causes for a short circuit.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Silver Sidelines

[The Johnster]

It's not a brilliant piece of design; there are too many wires to sit comfortably in the recess designed for them and it would be better with another recess the other side to take the surplus.  Possibly the number of wires increased after the design of this part was finalised; sh*t happens...

 

But reliable pickup is essential on any loco, at the same time as being one of the most fiddly things to achieve in the factory/assembly process.  I doubt any manufacturer is completely immune and I have had to faff with them on a Bachmann 64xx and a Hornby 42xx; I regard it as a nuisance but not a major issue.  I am on record on this forum as preferring a split chassis, but sadly Mainline's failure to make a reliable one 30 years ago has permanently blighted the concept.  Wiper pickups need regular cleaning, and correct tensioning; too light and they will not pick up current reliably, too heavy and they will act as brakes and ruin your slow running, and the best performance is always a compromise that could be improved with the lower friction at the wheel rims of a split chassis.  

 

Never gonna happen, though; the trade is firmly wedded to wiper pickups

Edited June 29, 2018 by The Johnster

[Silver Sidelines]

You might be right

 

Never gonna happen, though; the trade is firmly wedded to wiper pickups

I do believe that Bachmann tried a version of the 'split chassis' with their first rereleases of the Class 40 (32-480DS, and 32-481) both of which could only be made to run reliably by soldering extra wiper pickups.

 

Ray

Edited June 29, 2018 by Silver Sidelines

[melmerby]

I've seen "Split Axle" pickups on tenders recently and isn't the Hattons/DJ Models 48XX split chassis?

 

Keith

 

EDIT the Birdcage coaches have split axle pickups as well.

Edited July 1, 2018 by melmerby

[chuffinghell]

Good luck, I hope you don't make it 4 of us here. Keep us posted,

 

Colin

Unfortunately this one is worse than the first one, not only was the running awful but the body was a bit bashed

 

I won’t be having a third!....or anything else produced by Oxford Rail

Edited June 29, 2018 by chuffinghell

[57xx]

Third time lucky?

 

I have to give Ben and Simon at Rails a huge Thank You for sorting out my DG. Simon had personally tested loco #2 before sending out so was disappointed that it turned out to be a duffer when I mailed about the returns for it. Loco #3 was very thoroughly tested by Ben, he even took the time to call me and ask if there were any specific tests to try on it so I just asked "Do the rear tender pickups touch the wheels?" to which the answer was "Yes" and "Will it run smoothly at shunting speed?" to which Ben went off, tried it out and then mailed me back to confirm it was ok. True to his word, this one has turned out to finally be a decent runner. Soon as I turned the controller up slowly it started to move and it completed several laps of the track at slow speed, no hesitation over the curved insulfrog point.

 

It's nice to finally get one that works, but if only 1 in 3 of the OR locos are any good, that is shockingly bad assembly and QA.

[57xx]

For whatever reason, I'd say the rear tender pick-ups have been deliberately bent away from the wheels.

 

Deliberate? It must be sabotage at the factory then as they are supposed to be touching, as per my 3rd and finally working one.  

[cctransuk]

Unfortunately this one is worse than the first one, not only was the running awful but the body was a bit bashed

 

I won’t be having a third!....or anything else produced by Oxford Rail

 

Your standards of acceptability are, rightly, your own.

 

However, (running issues apart), if the two highlighted 'defects' are rejection material as far as you are concerned, I'm afraid that you are going to have an awful lot of rejects in the future.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited July 23, 2018 by cctransuk

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

But reliable pickup is essential on any loco, at the same time as being one of the most fiddly things to achieve in the factory/assembly process.  I doubt any manufacturer is completely immune and I have had to faff with them on a Bachmann 64xx and a Hornby 42xx; I regard it as a nuisance but not a major issue.  I am on record on this forum as preferring a split chassis, but sadly Mainline's failure to make a reliable one 30 years ago has permanently blighted the concept.  Wiper pickups need regular cleaning, and correct tensioning; too light and they will not pick up current reliably, too heavy and they will act as brakes and ruin your slow running, and the best performance is always a compromise that could be improved with the lower friction at the wheel rims of a split chassis...  

 It's more a case of appropriate pick up technique for the situation, 'horses for courses'.

 

The principal problem with split chassis on a rod coupled steam mechanism is that the wheelset construction is significantly weaker than the long proven steel axle force fitted into a plastic hub insulator. This means that the rod coupled split chassis wheelsets on steam models fail mechanically in a way that steel axle wheelsets simply don't, due to the cyclically varying forces applied by the coupling rods. This and other 'cost down' aspects fo the split chassis construction got a pretty hefty vote of disapproval from the customers, which Bachmann recognised by going conventional steel axle with wiper pick up.

 

Modern designs of motor with good torque coupled to multistage reduction gearing easily directly overcome the slight drag from pick up wipers on currently produced loco drive wiper pick up RTR steam models as you can test for yourself, there is no significant performance penalty. (Don't base your pick up wiper drag prejudice on long obsolete constructions.) If the current model with wiper pick up can spin its wheels even at low speed when held back that is proof that the drag from the wipers is not affecting performance in any significant respect.

 

The split axle weakness could be engineered out, a superior split chassis rod coupled wheelset design with a solid steel axle is fully possible, but at a significantly higher manufacturing cost, not very attractive in present conditions. So wiper pick up on steel axle wheelsets is 'the way' to obtain pick up from driven coupled wheels.

 

 

...Never gonna happen, though; the trade is firmly wedded to wiper pickups

Oh no, not 'firmly wedded'! Split axle pick up is regularly used by Bachmann  (and on some Hornby) on current non-steam traction and coaches, and very successfully too. With no cyclic forces from coupling rods acting on the split axle wheelsts these perform well, and when the pick up is off pinpoint bearings as seen on Bachmann's MU's and Pullman cars the free rolling characteristic is the best currently on offer in RTR OO. That's the stuff for unpowered wheelsets, efficient pick up with no incremental drag.

 

The biggest thief of traction on modern steam models is typically tender wiper pick ups, (doubly so when Hornby stir inside non-bearings into the mix) and it is all unnecessary.

 

The manufacturers should be encouraged to apply this same split axle (and pin point where possible) pick up system to unpowered wheelsets on steam models, and tenders especially. Bachmann have gone some way toward this in the past on the carrying wheels of some split chassis steam models so it is not even a novelty for them. (I have transplanted quite a quantity of the unpowered split axle wheelsests from clapped out Bachmann split chassis mechanisms onto curent models to provide minimum drag pick up from unpowered wheels.)

[chuffinghell]

Your standards of acceptability are, rightly, your own.

 

However, (running issues apart), if the two highlighted 'defects' are rejection material as far as you are concerned, I'm afraid that you are going to have an awful lot of rejects in the future.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

It was rejected mostly for the running issues or rather the issue of it not running

 

But you’re quite right John my standards are annoyingly high especially where new items are concerned (I was just picking fault because I was disappointed)

 

It’s an autistic thing that is difficult to explain, it p****s me off too

 

Chris

Edited July 26, 2018 by chuffinghell

[57xx]

So this is what the tender pickups should look like when not deliberately bent away from the wheels.

 

 

 

Despite running well, this 3rd example is still working as an 0-4-0 (or 2-0-2?) with the centre wheels not touching at all. After about 8 hours of running in, you can see the polishing on the outer drivers whilst the centre drivers are completely untouched.

 

 

Haulage-wise, I had 14 wagons hanging off the back and it lapped steadily at a nice sedate pace. It had a small amount of slippage on starting, I got up to 19 wagons before it really struggled and wouldn't pull away at all.. A lump of lead was balanced on the firebox and this help it with the getaway. So it looks like if I can get the centre wheels to touch the track and provide grip and also add some weight in (a 2nd fly wheel would help) it should help.

[chuffinghell]

I have to admit I'm still tempted to try for a fourth but it goes against my 'three strikes and you're out' rule

[woodenhead]

I have to admit I'm still tempted to try for a fourth but it goes against my 'three strikes and you're out' rule

 

What were we told as children; "if at first you don't succeed then try try try again"

 

Don't see any reason not to keep trying as long as it isn't costing you but I think if you reach 10 you should get a free one and a 'perseverance' smiley sticker.

[Willie Whizz]

Or as I was told after I'd reached my teens:  "If at first you don't succeed then try, try, try again ... well, at least try twice anyway, but then give up - there's no point being a bl++dy fool about things!"